Rosie: Radical Christianity is just as threatening as radical Islam

[Chimichurri]

video**

http://www.youtube.com/v/kIoDTzvEdGw

[indepat]

1. Bingo: Hooray for Hollywood and Rosie

[peace13]

2. Holy crap how will Rosie survive those women?

That was a very disturbing clip filled with American ignorance at its' finest!

[Chimichurri]

7. That young blonde one is a Bush lover - big time

She scares me.

[Virginia Dare]

10. She's an ill-informed twit...

if they're going to have a "conservative foil" for Rosie, they should at least make it an intelligent one, so that you might get some interesting debate. She's just a buffoon.

[BlueEyedSon]

35. a ditto head

[femrap]

18. I can't stand her self-righteousness...

she's one of those Conservatives Without Conscience that John Dean writes about.

I used to watch The View until she came on.....then I quit....as I have on almost all TV.

The violence, the sexism, the stupidity....TV is keeping the masses under control. My theory...American Idol keeps women busy whil internet p0rn and sports keeps the men distracted from Democracy.

But I'm glad to see Rosie giving that Eliz. shit!

[truebrit71]

21. I forget, what are her qualifications? She was on a reality show once?

Is that it?

This is the prude that wears underwear in the shower if she's bathing the kids....

I have a friend who has a SIL like that, and she is another stupid fucking right-wing moran...

[Shakespeare]

23. Well, her brother is an NFL quarterback....

so I'm sure, uh, that must qualify her for...er....something?

Oh, and he's a big ol' fundie wingnut, too.

[slestak]

30. That's her husband n/t

[ObaMania]

40. With Rethugs it's the same difference brother/husband.. whatever! n/t

[truebrit71]

33. Which one? Never mind, he's a back-up jock...

..like his back-up intellect I guess...

[liberaldemocrat7]

56. Bush supporters: "The back end of the "intelligence" bell curve"

hehehe

[annabanana]

41. I think she was on a "Survivor" episode...n/t

[demigoddess]

44. forget qualifications! how old is she? the people who lived through the

vietnam era are not fooled so easily, and also I wish they would not have any more christian non-thinkers on that show. I think Barbara Walters looked disappointed (not in Rosie) in the young one

[AX10]

3. K & R!

[AndyA]

4. Rosie is a smart lady. Baba Walters had nothing to say. Hmmm...

When you break it down, like Rosie did, it all seems so simple. But the more you try to justify it, the harder it becomes.

[Roxy66]

5. I am so glad Rosie is on Daytime again....

Many of the uninformed watch this show and it's good to see a strong voice speaking the truth, and not a bunch of bullshit fluff. Elizabeth has met her match!!

[Cha]

6. I was wondering how

Rosie O'Donnell was doin'?..she started the same day couric did on the cbs newsfarce.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlueEyedSon]

14. What's so "bad" about Islam?

And what was so great about the Crusades?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

32. Its social teachings.

About Islam: the attitudes described as being derived from Islam (I don't want to get into debates about what is and isn't "true" Islam; the only meaning of the word that makes sense is "what people generally described as muslims believe", as opposed to "what someone accurately following the wishes of Mohammed would believe" or "what someone accurately following the Koran would believe" or "what someone accurately following the Koran and its interpretation by Muslim scholars would believe") to women's rights, gay rights, crime and punishment, religious freedom, freedom of speech, civil liberties, etc - all the things that liberals dislike about conservative Christianity (again, meaning "what conservative Christians believe", rather than "what a 'true' Christian would believe), except arguably the association with right-wing economics, are present to a considerably greater degree in much of Islam.

By no means all Muslims hold such views, but a much higher fraction of muslims hold views more illiberal than any given threshold (well, except for the end ones, obviously, but that's a mathematical not a political point) than is true of Christians, which is why the common reflex on DU to defend Islam and attack Christianity annoys me - I disagree with all forms of Christianity, and dislike conservative Christianity strongly, but it's not as illiberal on average as Islam, and I think that claiming moral equivalence between the two leaves one no defence against a charge of double standards.

It's possible to be a liberal and not disapprove of Islam, but only at the expense of being a hypocrite.

As to "what was so great about the crusades" - what the hell are you talking about? What makes you think I think there was anything great about the crusades?

[BlueEyedSon]

38. Weren't the perpetrated by "good Christians"?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

42. Who knows?

What is and isn't a *good* Christian is a meaningless question, I think - there are a great many standards, none clearly better than the others. They were certainly perpetrated by Christians, though.

They don't, however, have anything whatsoever to do with a comparison of modern Christianity and modern Islam, especially not one focussing on the social teachings of each, and the question "what was so great about the Crusades" is a bizarre non-sequitur - the implicit assumption is just silly.

[helderheid]

9. Direct link to YouTube video

http://www.youtube.com/v/kIoDTzvEdGw

[Chimichurri]

12. Thanks! updated my link with yours.

[mnhtnbb]

58. Good for Rosie. Bombing innocent citizens of other countries

is Christian? Good for Rosie.

These fundies can't stand it when you point out their hypocrisy.

[noahmijo]

11. For the last fucking time dummy..Saddam was an ENEMY of Radical Islam

NO fucking right wing idiot can answer this question:

Why did we invade a nation ruled by a dictator who brutalized, tortured and massacred radical Islamists if Radical Islam is what we are fighting??


Or the short version "Was Iraq a nation ruled by Radical Islam?"

I either get a blank look or a not so sure "yes" from the freeper sheep.


BLIND FAITH is America's greatest enemy today.

[girl gone mad]

19. I can give you an answer...

but it isn't one that most RW idiots would understand.

To the crowd writing our policy, secularism was the real enemy. They viewed fundamentalism as a means to control vast populations and secularism as a threat to that ability to manipulate. It's this old school of thinking which led to our alliance with Osama bin Laden in the 80s. Osama was considered safe precisely because of his deep religous beliefs. Atheists, secularists, people who think for themselves and don't adhere to any strict religous code were and are probably still considered more dangerous and unpredictable. It's illogical, but I believe that is a part of their though process.

[Nikki Stone 1]

22. BINGO!

And I'll add that this worldwide fundamentalism is a way of keeping people quiet, praying, and distracted with each others' sexual foibles while global corporate feudalism sets in.

[Warren DeMontague]

48. I agree, except for the "old school of thinking" part.

I think it's still very much the current school of thinking.

I think secularists (and science, and knowledge, and free thought) are still the "real enemy". Bush and the Vatican had no problem teaming up with "Islamofascist" governments in the UN to fight against documents on womens' rights and support for contraception programs.

[malmapus]

25. This Administration has been the best thing since the wheel to all

radicals (Christianity and Islam).

For Islam because we've been playing into the whole "America is out to get you" mentality they are spewing. We've done exactly what Osama has been preaching, espicially with attacking and occupying an Islamic country that never attacked us, just out of nowhere and being responsible for the untold deaths that have been suffered since since we have so destabilized that area.

For those radical quack "Christians", omg this admin has got to give them constant boners for playing into all the crap they "preach" on a daily basis.

[anakie]

27. BLIND FAITH is America's greatest enemy today.

which in a nut shell is the problem with America's blinkered 33% who elected this fool and the same 33% who will re elect Republican majorities in both houses this November. Radical xtian ministers toeing the GOP line aided and abetted by that damned librul media telling the 33% who to vote for and the consequences of electing Democrats.

[Warren DeMontague]

47. And guess what country is the WORLD CAPITAL of "radical Islam"?

And who runs it?

I'll give you a hint:

[noahmijo]

50. Yea right. Mr Magoo. How the hell does the RW spin this anyway??

The powers of both religions kiss and do business while the poor of both sides duke it out to make the powers richer.

I said once a long time ago in response to a rw nut who threw the usual "Saddam was a brutal dictator" argument which can be countered in about a thousand ways but my choice at that moment was to respond with "Yea well in Saudia Arabia they'll behead your wife for going out in public with no burka and claibourne on her face, but we call the rulers of that country "business partners"

[Warren DeMontague]

54. They spin it by having a wholly owned corporate media

that goes "don't look at that- look over here!"

[LeftishBrit]

13. Religions are not threatening in themselves, but...

become seriously threatening when used to gain or maintain political power, especially with physical force.

I'd say that both radical (i.e. politicized) Islam and radical Christianity are pretty dangerous.

[Chimichurri]

15. Absolutely correct. I think that's why she used the word "radical"

[faithnotgreed]

16. hi leftishbrit - glad youre here

as someone who believes strongly in God and in Jesus may i just say that pretty much religion has consistently been used as just that - a threat
whether it was from the pulpit of the throne or church it has long been used as a club

no different then or now though as with many other beliefs or movements it started out with beautiful intent

[retread]

34. The End of Faith by Sam Harris n/t

[BlueEyedSon]

37. Religious moderates provide "cover" for the fundies.

They make belief appear rational.

[Ron Green]

49. Strongly disagree.

Belief doesn't need to be rational, it needs only to be useful. Indeed, the realm of religious belief is where the necessary irrationality of our life on earth often resides.

Rather than providing cover for the fundies, moderate religious people exemplify the institutions of scholarship, tolerance and altruism that churches and other spiritual groups should be, giving the lie to the fear-based and divisive cults that claim the mantle of one of the names of God.

We don't get rid of the market if it's harmful, we seek to control it. Likewise churches should come under scrutiny and regulation when they begin to harm the public welfare.

[BlueEyedSon]

52. That's your opinion. Read the book.

And your suggestion about controlling the church is total BS.

And what is wrong with scholarship, altruism and tolerance in the absence of superstition?

[AngryAmish]

17. break their backs, make them humble!

[procopia]

20. Who did Joy say threatened us?

I couldn't understand with all the cross talk.

[ronnykmarshall]

24. Did the Elizabeth's head explode?

[Chimichurri]

26. She got all flustered and yeah her head almost did explode but

she held it together. I guess the last outburst got her in trouble.

[earth mom]

36. I'd love to see Elizab*tch lose it and get kicked off that show!

:rofl:

I haven't seen the View lately-guess I will now that Rosie is kickin rethug and fundie a$$!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

28. As Much As I Can't Stand Her, She Did Do Good In That Clip.

[W_HAMILTON]

29. You won't win this "war" with bombs

Republicans, and many of the talking heads on TV, laugh at you and dismiss you if you say that the war on terror should be more of a law enforcement issue, but it's true. Bombing people is not going to stop this spread of hatred towards us. It will just increase it. You bomb people, inevitably innocents will be killed, and the survivors of those innocents will hate you. We will NOT beat the cause of terrorism with bombs and wars, period.

It is a law enforcement issue, but on a larger scale. It includes better intelligence gathering, smaller covert missions to take out big wigs like Osama and individual cells, and a damn good defense. Watching the numerous deaths in Iraq everyday, while we have 100,000+ troops over there, just proves that physical force will not stop terror by itself.

Unfortunately, the right-wing dickheads have distorted this whole issue, and they just point and laugh, call you weak, and say crap like, "so, we should just wait for them to attack us, huh?"

[noahmijo]

45. Ramzi Yousef sits in a federal prison today because Clinton and his

administration decided to approach the first WTC attack as a "law enforcement issue"

The truth is the administration took the smart route-gathering intelligence, garnered true international cooperation, refused to make stupid moves like invading Iraq and he never had to erode the civil liberties of Americans.


The Bush Administration on the other hand makes Opie Taylor look like Sherlock Holmes.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. I know. Would that they all realized how much they have in common.

They hate gays, fear womens' sexuality, want to impose their rigid, backwards-ass view of reality on the rest of us, believe in censorship, control, and micro-managing of other people's personal life -and end of life- decisions.

They wilt in terror at the thought of women using birth control, having orgasms, or baring flesh.

They hate and fear science, truth, fact and reality. Open-minded inquiry and separation of church and state are their worst enemies.

Hell, the Bush administration- and the Vatican- didn't have a problem working with "Islamofascists" at the UN when the common goal was defeating godless secular European proposals to, you know, give women rights and try to get birth control into the hands of poor people.

They're all, essentially, on the same side; the only difference is what they call the Deity they want to establish their Theocratic Dominion under.

[noahmijo]

51. So I guess what you're saying is terrorists hate liberals

Can anyone help me figure out why this square block won't fit in this round hole?

[ObaMania]

39. Right on Rosie!

Man, can you imagine a "The View" with Rosie, Martha Stewart, and Ellen D.. throwing in a little Coulter to kick around? That would be a laugh riot as well as a ratings bonanza!

[stanwyck]

43. I guess she's trying to get back in my good graces

since I wrote her off after her relentless Clinton bashing.
Keep it up, Rosie. You've got some atonement to do. Glad you're getting started.

[and-justice-for-all]

46. I have been screaming that for awhile! get'em Rosie

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren DeMontague]

55. Pfft.

:spray:

Truth hurts, I guess.

If you are unable to find a distinction between your beliefs and those of people who bomb abortion clinics and fly planes into buildings, that's your problem.

If you identify your faith as indistinguishable from that of the gang of theocrats- and I'm sorry, but that's what they are- who have taken over our government and are trying to micro-manage millions of people's personal and reproductive lives... in the name of their brand of "Christianity", that's your problem.

I would love it if religion -particularly of the extremist variety- could stay in individual heads and not become a political problem for the rest of us. But it can't, apparently, so it is. Tough cookie, but in MY humble opinion that means it's gonna be fair game for discussion here- and commented negatively upon, too.

(...But I'm sure the mods appreciate your taking it upon yourself to tell 'em how to do their jobs.)

[Leopolds Ghost]

57. So my previous message disappeared... because?

a) I pointed out that I'm a radical Christian and the OP inadvertently insults genuine radical Christians such as myself (as well as devout Muslims in the generic sense, implying that religion is responsible for conservatism in both groups) in the exact same fashion as a recent thread discussing "Big Fat Republican Women", with many replies taking the opportunity to overtly insult fat people and Christians (respectively) by stereotyping them as Republicans.

b) I asked the mods to lock this thread for the same reason the "Big Fat Republican Women" thread was locked.

c) I pointed out that threads with the title "radical atheist neocons"
automatically get deleted by the very same mods that locked my thread -thereby insulting the mods? -- by implying inconsistency.

d) I pointed out that threads which turn into a discussion of what part if any, liberal and radical Christians have to play in the Democratic party automatically get sent to the religion "dungeon", while similar posts claiming that the party must proactively support secularism in public and private life are not only allowed to remain on GD, they are allowed to turn into anti-Christian (and in some cases, as with the Mohammed cartoons, anti-Muslim) hate-fests, with no reaction from the morderators.

e) I was alerted by multiple (presumably) atheists who took offense at calling myself a "radical" Christian at all -- or pointing out that I was Christian, as if to suggest that I must be a freeper if I am proud of my religious beliefs. Apparently, Christians and Muslims are not allowed to take offense at broad-brush venom directed at them lest they be mistaken for enemies of liberty.

Take your pick.

I take this very seriously.

In my public school, we were taught the meaning of stereotyping, scapegoating, etc. These are concepts that many of the supposedly "liberal" people I meet in real life were not taught, except as theoretical concepts used to justify why "oppressed minorities" historically support the Democratic party, which is mainly a numbers game for most affluent, secular, center-leftists. They believe the party can survive without socially conservative, working class blacks and whites.

(I say historically because if people who are willing to scapegoat, stereotype, and other forms of prejudice, especially directed against religious people, end up running the Democratic party, they will run us into the ground.)

[Warren DeMontague]

62. Why don't you ask the mods.

I take this very seriously, too. Apparently you can't see the problem we face with the theocracy that is being imposed upon us in the name of some people's version of "Christianity". There is a REASON for these threads. It is not "scapegoating" because nowhere- NO. WHERE. do these threads talk about "all Christians" or "all Muslims". The threads about the cartoons? Eh--- People were attacking and committing acts of violence because of fucking cartoons.

Let me say that again, FUCKING CARTOONS. Somehow, to you, the folks who were forced to look at the cartoons and riot violently were the innocent victims. Similarly, I'm sure, the folks who are forced to live in a country with legal abortion and birth control, or a town where the public school teaches kids the facts about evolution in their science class, or a land where (as you put it, as if it's a bad thing) secularism in public life is held up as a positive value- yes, those folks -and the Christian majority in this country, (of whom SOME but NOT ALL are what I would consider "extremist") are, again, the "poor, persecuted victims". :eyes:

...

I also can't speak for the folks who you say alerted on you. It seems to me you may be projecting, but not having been one of them, I can't honestly say.

...

as for the last bit of your post; despite the reflexive, histrionic wailing we hear every so often around here about how "we" are "alienating the values voter" because we, you know, "hate god" or have the temerity to make fun of people who think the Earth is 6,000 years old and dinosaurs were on "Noah's Ark"....



Um, yes, actually, I DO believe that the party can survive without pandering to the religious right. I think bending over backwards to appease an out of control segment of our society that already has more power than they deserve over other peoples' lives is a mistake; not just from a numbers perspective, not just from a "don't alienate the base" perspective, but also from a morality perspective. Dig?

I think we can win over ten times as many voters than we're ever going to mine from your "socially conservative" values voters gang if we try to woo the millions of unaligned socially libertarian voters who, right now, can't figure out which party has fewer control freaks. Some of those people are religious, but they understand that religion isn't something you NEED to impose on your neighbor, whether your neighbor is a gay person wanting to get married or a woman wanting to fill a birth control prescription. They're waiting for a party -any party- to come out strong against a $40 Billion a year drug war boondoggle, against censorship, and against government interference in people's personal, reproductive, and end of life decisions. THAT'S how we win.

[Ino]

59. Oh my! The audience applauded that statement!

:bounce:

[StrictlyRockers]

60. Elizabeth Hasslebeck is a fundie wingnut deluxe. Here's video proof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3KkSxkhLP8

The starts ranting her radical Christian fundie bile at Joy. It's offensive.

Barbara Walters reprimands her for "exploding" and not discussing things "rationally".

People like her are scary. Like moral terrorists ready to kill you if you don't agree that every sperm is sacred. Jeeze.

SR

[Vidar]

61. Needed to be said. Thanks, Rosie.

[RPM]

63. wow - first time i agre with her

wow.