On Air America's problems.

[Greyhound]

If the goal of AA is to counter to the Limpball, Insannity, and O'Lielley's, they are approaching it all wrong. If you will recall, Radical Rong-Wing radio began in the 70's and didn't really pick up any steam until the late 80's, and they did it by constantly hammering the most outrageous, grotesque, insane viewpoints of the most extreme fringe elements. They did this year after year until they had gathered the majority of wackos into their camp and then directed them to take the actions required to advance their sick agenda.

After they had created this congregation and gave them a place to gather and voice their perversions, they essentially took control of the Re:puke: Party and forced them to acquiesce to their demands. Politiwhores that went along were rewarded with unlimited free advertising and air-time for their campaigns and proposals, those that didn't were replaced. IOW, they became the voice of the Re:puke: Party by controlling the Re:puke: Party, not the other way around.

AA OTOH, began as an attempt to respond to RW radio by being the mouthpiece of the Democratic Party from the beginning, giving them the appearance, real or perceived, of being the propaganda department for the DNC. They do not challenge the the established leadership of the party, at least not often nor with any real commitment. On the rare occasion that they do voice some objection to a particular person or position, or suggested some change in the Party's position, they do it in a half-hearted, wimpy way, and then fold like a pair of deuces against a royal flush at the very first sign of resistance.

As long as they insist on reading, verbatim, from the hymn book only to the choir, they will not attract any audience but the choir and, even they, get bored with the hearing what they already know or believe every day.

If there is to be a response to the RW megaphone, it needs to be loud, consistent, and challenging. It must garner, more than an audience, it needs to foster a following that is willing and eager to "burn the motherfucker down!" if that's what it takes to get their views out there. Be controversial, call the war-mongers on their hypocrisy, punish the enablers, and expose the corporatists for what they are.

[AX10]

1. K & R!

We need a true national audience!

[AndyA]

2. K&R! n/m

[LSK]

3. Before AAR, Talk Radio = Right Wing Talk Radio.

There was not liberal or democratic radio network before AAR. There were random radio shows stuck on right wing talk radio stations that lasted months at a time.

There was no big voice out there BESIDES right wing radio.

AAR may not be perfect. But its better than having NO VOICE.

[Greyhound]

4. I think you missed my point. Before "Right Wing Talk Radio", there

was just talk radio, many of the shows worked under a no opinion policy similar to C-Span call-in show where the host gives no opinions, but just goes through the national news bringing up the stories of the day and people call in and say whatever they want and then the next caller does the same.

Alan Berg was an extreme wacko (mostly RW except where Israel was concerned, but always extreme) and who ever heard of him before he pissed off the wrong people and was assassinated by nazis in his driveway.

The point is that, if they are to imitate the success of RWR, they need to generate and encourage their audience from outside the "squishy middle-of-the-road", already convinced, unenthusiastic, followers of whatever the DNC says crowd. The ABB group is not the source of interesting radio, nor are they committed fanatics that will spend their time and money doing whatever their host of choice tells them to. If they want to attract large numbers and make significant changes, they need to learn from the masters like Stern. Love him or hate him, hardly anybody is indifferent to him and that's why he can single-handedly turn a station around.

[LSK]

7. the jury is not out yet if they are a success yet or not

AARs problems stem from Evan Cohen and mismanagement. Not ratings problems. If the Dems win big in November, how much of a role does AAR play???

I think its too early to tell if AAR is a success in the political arena yet. And its too soon to analyze why it failed if the jury is still out on whether it failed or now.

[RangerSmith]

5. my 2 cents..

This will probably bring rain, but so be it...

RW radio has it easy. They play to basically 2 to 3 large far right groups. Fundamentalist Christians being by far the biggest group and the others are pretty much politically aligned with them.

LW radio tried to do the same thing only it's more difficult because the far left is way too splintered and they don't lock step often unless you are talking about how evil the Republicans are. They don't agree on policy like the far RW does. But, you can pretty much count on them to listen.

Mainstream Dems and moderates are typically pretty turned off by all the childish name calling from the RW talkers and they feel the same when the Left does it.. it's tiring and petty... and did I mention childish?

And, to boot, they are typically looking for more intelligent discourse than programing aimed at preaching to the choir normally provokes. They don't want just the lefts version of the right, or the daily talking points read back to them... they want more meat and potatoes.

Much tougher to appease one and get the other to listen, IMHO.

[Greyhound]

15. RWR brought the disparate groups together under their common goal

of "remaking amerika", they changed the political landscape by giving voice to the wackos, and forcing the politiwhores to pander to them. They had a specific goal to change politics, they ignored and ridiculed the status quo re:puke:s, making them obsolete. Do you believe the sheeple would have voted for the current crop of maniacs if they hadn't been conditioned to support this kind of craziness for years beforehand?

The fact that the Democrats have lost control of government as well as the core of our beliefs in fairness, compassion, and working for the working-class, would seem to indicate that changes are absolutely required, in order to re-establish our rightful dominance of the American spirit. Being Corporate politiwhores may get them more donations, but won't address, let alone restore, the principles and beliefs that made this the most powerful nation on earth. Anybody but Bush may win a few seats in this election, but it fails to convince anybody that we are, in fact, better than the Re:puke:s.

RW radio has it easy. They play to basically 2 to 3 large far right groups. Fundamentalist Christians being by far the biggest group and the others are pretty much politically aligned with them.

This is just wrong, their largest audience are white, mostly males, making <$75,000 who favored * by an astounding 70% to Kerry's 29% in 2004 (Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research, “Democracy Corps National Survey,” January 22-25, 2006.). The idea that we can make any significant headway without addressing this demographic is lunacy at best.

Forget the "mainstream Democrats" we already have them and they're not going anywhere. The key to AA and The Democratic Party's success is to bring the working/lower-middle classes back. This won't happen easily, nor quickly, due to the fact that we sold these people down the river and destroyed theirs and their parents lives by prostituting ourselves to raygun and his corporate sponsors. If we fail to fix this, we are done.

Talk radio is not about intelligent discourse, it is about whipping up the faithful and making them spend their money, their time, and their votes, where it does us the most good.

[RangerSmith]

17. "rightful dominance of the American spirit?"

Gosh, I've heard that kind of thinking somewhere before... freaky.

I believe you're wrong about mainstream Dems.

ABSCAM comes to mind.

Just as wrong as the reps are getting ready to find out they are about mainstream reps.

[Greyhound]

25. Yes, we must or America is lost and will remain amerika forever.

You left out the main part of the quote; "the core of our beliefs in fairness, compassion, and working for the working-class, would seem to indicate that changes are absolutely required, in order to re-establish our rightful dominance of the American spirit".

Fairness, compassion, and working for the working-class, are the definition of our party, or at least they were before the corporate whores took over and destroyed the concept of America.

ABSCAM was a prime example of what went wrong, self-serving politiwhores working only for themselves at the expense of the people.

It is far past time for us to realize this is a war and there will be only one winner. I'd rather live in a world where fairness and compassion rule than where the most money does.

[wicket]

6. Also, the Fairness Doctrine was done away with in 1987:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_Doctrine

The Doctrine was enforced throughout the entire history of the FCC (and its precursor, the Federal Radio Commission) until 1987, when the FCC repealed it in its Syracuse Peace Council decision which was upheld. The Republican-controlled commission claimed the doctrine had grown to inhibit rather than enhance debate and suggested that, due to the many media voices in the marketplace at the time, the doctrine was probably unconstitutional. Others, noting the subsequent rise of right-wing radio hosts like Rush Limbaugh, suggest the repeal was more likely motivated by a desire to get partisans on the air.

[Greyhound]

23. That's it exactly. If we don't get to make the rules, at least we can

use them to fight back. Wouldn't it be ironic if the Re:puke:s re-instated the fairness doctrine in order to shut us up?

[Swamp Rat]

8. Air America who?

Bring back Mike Malloy and I will listen again.

[Greyhound]

22. Then you are on this side? n/t

[Swamp Rat]

29. What side?

The Dark Side of the Moon?

[Greyhound]

33. Those of us that think AAR needs more radical voices, rather than fewer.nt

[geomon666]

30. *applauds*

Capitalists and liberals don't mix. Bye AAR management thugs.

[PleadTheFirst]

9. That sums it up.

Well stated, Grey. I'm behind you 100%.

They shouldn't be getting rid of the likes of Mike Malloy - they should give him the morning drive time slot and hire a half a dozen more like him!

[Beacho]

10. RW media is subsidised by Corporatistas

They don't have to turn a profit.

Fox News and The Washington Times are sinkholes that not only don't make money, they lose it by the truckload.

The same goes for RW radio.

It's not about the market value of the format, it's about deep pockets and a vested interests of the money class to skew the debate away from instituting Corporate Feudalism to subjects that keep the peons at each others throats.

It would seem that they have gotten a good return on investment.

[imfreaky]

11. I have to say you're wrong.

Right wingers are money hungry. They aint gonna keep putting money into something that's not bringing it back in.

[Hugin]

21. They make their money selling oil and bullets...

Also, they are big fans of 'investment'.

They view a return on that investment in getting their guys closer to the trough.

[Greyhound]

16. Great point! Scaife and Co. blow through millions and millions in order

to get their message out there. Soros bankrolled AA to make more money, big difference.

Thanks for pointing this out. :smoke:

[Wiley50]

12. You know I love you.GH, but you're only half right

To your first point let me add
that the xian right made a concerted effort begining in the late '70's
to take over the repuke party by taking over local committees
and running off the moderates

To your second point as far as AA
If you listen to Franken (and maybe a few others)
Al does mimic DLC talking points
after all he's gonna run for senate

OTOH, Nalloy doesn't pull any punches
regardless of whose camp the bombs fall on
And Randi
She met with the party and turned down their money
in order to keep her dignity
Ed Schultz, OTOH, took the money.

Of course, Schultz isn't really part of AA

I think it's all about who you listen to

I don't listen to Franken
He lost me right after
whatever that was that happened the first week of 11/04
(It wasn't an election, more like a massive fraud)
He even had Mark Miller on that week
and still didn't get it

[Greyhound]

18. You're quite right. But who has the megaphone on AA?

I don't know if you were listening to talk radio in the old days (I've been an addict since the I was a kid in the 70's), but back then the topics and hosts were exclusively from the bat-shit crazy, "kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" camp. When limpball started he was, and remains, the same. There is no such thing as too extreme on his show, he lets advocates of public executions of OB/GYNs and their patients on the air unchallenged, etc. He pisses people off, and guess what? His audience just grew and grew and grew. Like Stern, he figured out that the more outlandish, the bigger the audience and AA needs to learn this. It doesn't matter what the moderates, the Party, or the re:puke:s say about it, in fact, the louder they all scream, the bigger the audience gets.

Frankin and Springer are as interesting as watching grass grow, Randi is a little better, but Malloy gets fired because he makes the corporate-whores nervous. We need wild-eyes maniacs screaming about rioting in the streets, marching to city hall with torches and pitchforks, or voting for communists or whatever will whip them into a frenzy of controversy. The more "Democratic Leaders" that go on various TV talk shows denouncing the extremism of AA the larger the audience will get. Every time HRC says how terrible they are, they gain another point in the book.

[Pharaoh]

13. Exactly, then why fire Malloy? n/t

[Greyhound]

20. Because they don't want to offend their masters?

The indistinguishable "voices of reason" that offer no alternatives to the status quo, gain nothing, and that appears to be the goal. "Here you go little sheeple, here's a nice pacifier. Now go back to sleep, all is well".

[mhatrw]

14. I tend to agree.

Good point.

[Cerridwen]

19. K & R n/t

[Writer]

24. I very much need to emphasize this:

WE need to be willing to "burn the motherfucker down!" for this to work.

[Greyhound]

26. Ding, ding, ding!

this is a war, we didn't start it, we don't want it, but we're in it, and in a war the people in the middle (moderates) just end up as bullet catchers.

[KharmaTrain]

27. I Wish It Were So Simple...

I've spun on this topic here waaaaaaay too many times...but I do so as one who worked in radio for over 30 years and was a witness to the birth of Rush and hate radio. I'll spare you the litany, but there are many financial reasons hate radio and right wing radio has succeded where left/progressive talk hasn't...and it's not the content.


Hate radio came along at a time when radio was "de-regulating". Satellites made it easy to get programming to stations and was cheaper to run than having a live body/ego/paycheck to deal with. AM stations were starting to lose money and Rush was cheap programming that Rush's people made sure got sold...as the local stations made money, the more stations Rush got on and the more shows like Rush would follow. Most hate radio stations are one division tied into more profitable music stations or television or theme parks or concert venues. Right now, hate radio is all that's holding AM radio up...and many of these stations are being propped up and kept on the air to prevent overall radio station property values from crashing. Progresssive radio has no equivelent...nothing even close.

AAR's, like IE before it (anyone remember that network) and others are a one dimension piece on a multi-dimensional board. Network/owners like Salem, Disney and Cheap Channel built their hate networks with revenues from other sources. AAR has attempted to grow with virtually no promotional budget and on some of the weakest signals. All the network's resources have had to go into paying for airtime or talent or equipment and little has gone to promote their stations or assist their local affiliates in helping both their station and format grow. Now AAR has hit a wall...it's not able to grow much further in its current state and it hasn't grown big enough yet to grow on a larger scale. Other than Randi Rhodes and Franken, there's not much that can be marketed...and doesn't do much to reach out to the "moderate" listener. AAR is the left wing equivelent of Salem or the EIB..this is how the current listeners like it, but it's hit a wall with little place to go. But then maybe I'm wrong...but 30 years of watching stations, format and owners come and go tell me different.

I've discussed in the past many alternatives open to Progressives...using facilities that already exist and are under-utilized...or to work cooperative on not just the creative, but the business and marketing side of things. Needless to say, the response has (and probably will remain) underwhelming.

Lastly, dare I say I find AAR very dull these days. At first it was great hearing voices of those with similar positions as I did after years of being in the wilderness, but too much of one extreme is no better than the other. Randi can say some very smart things one minute and be off into the stratosphere the next...it makes listening tough. It's also tedious...and that's death in radio. While Rushbo is a total fraud, the one thing he was that has served him well is he's a "showman"...he knows how to entertain his audience while shoveling the bullshit at them...and that's why they "respect" him. It's not that what he spews as much as how he spews it.

While I still have hopes in AAR, I see a lot of problems that have to be addressed on their end...and a more realistic set of expectation from listeners.

[Greyhound]

28. So, if I understand correctly, they have a bad business model

and "As long as they insist on reading, verbatim, from the hymn book only to the choir, they will not attract any audience but the choir and, even they, get bored with the hearing what they already know or believe every day." pretty much sums it up?

What about a Limpball or a Stern type to fill the lack of showmanship? Though I never listen anymore, Howard is the absolute master, IMO.

[Wiley50]

31. Originally, Franken was supposed to be their "Showman"

But He's a one trick pony

The First time he sang "Christy"
or
the first few times he had his dittohead friend on

It was Funny

Now I just grimace and reach for the dial

The fired their only Bastille Stormer
I may never forgive them

[KharmaTrain]

32. It's Marketing...What People Don't Hear...To Get Them To Listen

In the beginning, AAR did the right thing. They offered an alternative...something different to listen to and it was enough to get them up to the number of stations they are now. The ratings weren't so hot, but then this was a start-up venture that really was starting from the bottom up. Watch "Left Of The Dial"...it's a great inside into the founding of the network and its initial problems.

After the word gets out, the marketing model should have been to expand the name and reach. This was by investing in affiliates, getting the word out about the network, its people and its shows instead of relying on Al Franken to beg his way onto Letterman and Conan. There was little development of local talent...encouraging affiliates to do their own programming...if anything, AAR tried to fight it as they needed to clear as much airtime on as many stations. Catch 22.

Stern was excellent at self promotion, but as far as promoting a network or a station, he has been a disaster. Just look at how he's stagnated at XM. One person can't carry a network, it requires solid marketing and expanding ways to reach your audience and attract a new one. My bets are that if you held a focus group you'd find AAR has very little name recognition...especially to the target audience they want to reach...This needs to be changed and quickly.

As far as "preaching to the choir"...it's like listening to the same hit song over and over. If you like the song, it's the greatest station on the dial...but for others, after a while you want to hear something different. I don't mind hearing an Ed Schultz as he brings something different to the table and when a radio show makes me think, it's working.

Cheers...

[maseman]

34. You bring up some interesting points here

I have to make some corrections though. "Right-wing" talk radio on a national level actually was an accident. It mainly started in the mid 1980's wit Rush Limbaugh. But in the 80's Rush was not a right-wing wacko believe it or not. Matter of fact I know a lot of people who are strictly Dems who listened to Rush. He was not a bloviating nut-job like he is now. He actually took calls, debated points, respected all callers, didn't just do the RW shtick.

When Rush started AM radio was nearly dead. FM had pretty much killed AM. Many were still trying to do beautiful music, some rock, some top 40, etc. But it was dead in the ratings. Rush was good and he was cheap. People who syndicated Limbaugh also got Dr. Dean Edell as a part of the package. Their ratings were good and they started bringing some of these nearly dead AM radio stations back to life.

Couple all of this with 1992. This is the year that Rush started really going far to the right in response to Bill Clinton. Rush knew that he could play that Repuke drumbeat, the same that was going in in Congress, and be successful. He was. Then couple all of this with the consolidation of radio. Big radio groups were buying stations left and right and they were cutting costs by firing local on-air people and putting national talk shows. The thinking was "Hey, Limpbaugh's shtick works why not clone him?" Thus Hannity, Beck, Savage, Lars Larson, Michael Reagan, etc. Bottom line was that they were cheap talent and they got decent ratings. Also, they got the huge AM signals like WABC in NYC, WLS in Chicago, WIOD in Miami, WBAL WPHT in Philly, WRKO in Boston, KDKA in Pittsburgh, KABC in LA, etc.

So AAR comes on in response to the lack of progressive talkers nationally. One reason for their shitty success thus far is that they are on shitty radio stations. Come on...WLIB in NYC reaches one-third the area that WABC reaches. KTLK in LA at 1150 has a horrid signal. And WCPT in CHicago? I heard one of the squirrels running on the wheel that generates their power died. Terrible signal.

One major difference between Rush and his beginning and AAR? New media. We now have streaming and sat radio. I have been listeneing to Randi Rhodes since about 3 years before she was on AAR by streaming her station WJNO online.

Sorry for the long post. Figured some might find it interesting.

[LSK]

35. I have found your posts on AAR very interesting

I wish you would create a journal and keep them there.