True or False: America is Powerless to Stop bush & his war.

[Philosoraptor]

This is what it looks like anyway, the great United States dis-united on the war. We have told these assholes till we are blue in the face that we don't want this god damned disaster he calls a war, but the neo cons dismiss us outright.

Is it really, horrifically true that we simply cannot stop his war, ever?

We are at long last, powerless under a president, or so it would seem.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

1. I think that about sums it up. n/t

[whistle]

2. It certainly appears to be the case, but it is more than being

...powerless over George Bush, we seem to be powerless over the system which governs us.

[Raffi Ella]

6. yes

This is a unique situation where we have THE most radical President coupled with a most accomadating -Republican owned- Congress.There are no oversights and haven't been for 6 years.

So,yes,right now we, the opposition Party,are powerless but we could change that.I pray to God we do change that this November.If it doesn't change then I seriously am thinking of moving out of country until the America I know and love is restored to some resemblance of checks and balances.

[liberal N proud]

3. I fear that barring any great uprising from the masses you are correct

The only way we are going to get America back is to take it back and I am afraid that it is going to come down to force. And even if it does, these assholes will stop at nothing to suppress an uprising.

[valerief]

4. Can you get soldiers to refuse to go to this illegal war and get other

soldiers/other law enforcement to not capture the soldiers that refuse to go to this illegal war? I don't know how that's done when BushCo cronies control the airwaves and pulpits and the Air Force wants to beam us with microwaves when we assemble.

[Mz Pip]

5. We've got power

but when less than 50% of the people in this country vote and the ones that do continue to vote Republican (Bush's poll numbers are going up) then we will be stuck.

Unless we can get out the vote we are stuck. Repugs have the bully pulpit and the money.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[madokie]

7. to agree with this would be saying you have given up,

15 months, years ago, says I won't give up as long as there is blood flowing in my veins. The populace is only now starting to stir and once they clear their eyes this despot won't last long. imo

[Avalux]

8. Here, read my post -

right there with you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2133644&mesg_id=2133644

[John Q. Citizen]

9. False. But believeing we can get what we want just by wanting it is

silly.

[peacetalksforall]

10. Is there a name for those who accept abuse and come back

for more? A psychological term? That's us (some of us). More people than ever know about the Iraq lie, but they seem to be HOPING? that the Iran lie is true.

It was last August 2005 that the NSC (that's our National Security Council under Rice in case acronyms cause blurring for any readers) - their NSC said Iran would not have nuclear wmd until ten years from 2005. Then we heard 8 or 6 under certain circumstances. Some have said that if every possible thing came together for them, it could be three. But that is not enough time to hold talks with Iran because the people running this regime DON'T WANT TO TALK THEY WANT TO BOMB AND OWN. They want to kill for oil and Israel, to own the Arab world, and to kill Moslems into submissiveness.

And we refuse to recognize that Cheney appears to trade in nuclear parts with Iran through Khan of Pakistan and others. Search Cheney Khan nuclear for your own edification.

So the answer is true and false. If citizens recognize that they were abused and they are being abused and brutalized again with the same tactics and messages that were used before - they have to know that those lies and the disinformation are the same as a fist or a belt or a push and and a kick. We could save ourselves and Iran as well as Israel. Just say no to Israel pushing for annihilation of Iran and replace bombs with heart and heartfelt talks of the Christ and God kind.

[Dhalgren]

11. I think that it is time that we, here, begin to hold private, personal

meetings, in our local areas, to discuss our options. We cannot adequately discuss our country's problems (and their solutions) except in secure groups, in secure meetings. We need to organize this now, while we still can. Discuss nothing online and be very careful...

[TahitiNut]

12. Too cowardly and selfish, I'm sad to say.

We seem to suffer under an amalgam of delusions. "It's really not that bad. Yet." "I've done my part. I marched." "I've paid my part. (Less than I spend on eating out.)" "I can't risk my job. (No matter how many are unemployed.)"

And the worst of all ... "Let George do it."

We continue to expect elected politicians to 'save' us - a little like spending an hour or two at a church on Sunday and, if not satisfied, stiff 'em in the offering plate. Or perhaps it's like everything else in our lives - brand loyalty and box office attractions. The vast majority of what I read on DU seems to be written by Pollyanna or Scarlett O'Hara. "If we win back the Congress, it'll get fixed." As though the deep-seated, cancerous corruptions of corpo-fascism that have metastasized in our body politic over the last three decades can be cured by the aspiring of one election. Nixon's resignation was like the cosmetic removal of a cancerous wart - the removal of which set loose cancer cells in all our major organs.

We may voice rhetoric that accurately recognizes the extreme corpo-fascist ideologies that have completely taken over the Republican Party and infest the Democratic Party to an uncomfortable degree ... but do we really believe it?

What are the chances of a National Strike? (So much for the hypocrisy of honoring labor.)
What are the chances of widespread (non-violent) civil disobedience? (So much for sacrifice - paying now so we don't pay more later.)

Too many are willing to delude themselves that "it's not my job" and that "our troops are war criminals" when it's really up to We the People. The LAST thing we should ever want is a mutinous military - or asking those who're in SERVICE to the People to sacrifice even more while 'the People' do virtually nothing that is comparable.

The forces of corpo-fascism have been embedded in this nation for over 100 years. Age of Robber Barons. The vast Ponzi scheme (greater fool stock market) leading to the Great Depression. Henry Ford and his ilk. None were more vocal about the "communist menace" than the fascists. Look to the sounds of that rabid zealotry and, nine times out of ten, you'll see a fascist.

"I'll think about that tomorrow. After all, tomorrow is another day."

The die was cast in December 2000 when an election was stolen ... and the SCOTUS wasn't completely buried by angry millions and millions of citizens, jealous of their democracy.



(One might want to respond in a messenger-oriented fashion and ask "well, what the hell are YOU doing?" I refuse to answer such questions or even disclose any such personal activities on an open forum like this. Anyone that would is an idiot who just doesn't know how serious the situation is. End of discussion.

[ktowntennesseedem]

13. We are still a government of, by, and for the people.

The president and congress and all other elements of that government only have as much power as the American people give them. The problem in recent years is that more and more Americans, whether through ignorance, apathy, selfishness, or just plain stupidity, are yielding their power and control, trusing a government that becomes less deserving of that trust the more powerful it becomes. And tragically the more power and freedom that the people yield to these thieves and charlatans, the more strength and sacrifice and courage will be required by those who refuse to yield if we ever to stop this madness and put this country back on the right course.

IMHO, there is a point at which the people will have abdicated enough power and control to its government that there is not enough power remaining to reclaim control. At that point it will simply be a matter of waiting for an all-powerful and unstoppable dictatorship to self-destruct (and we're already well on our way if it comes to that), then pick up whatever pieces are left in the aftermath and start from scratch. As to the question, "Is America powerless to stop bush and his war?" (or anything else of this administration for that matter), my reply would be simply, "at some point we will be." The big question then, and the one that will be the toughest to answer, becomes, "Have we reached that point yet?"

I really don't have the answer to that one, but I have a feeling we'll all learn the answer soon enough, perhaps as early as this November.

[nancyr]

14. I think we've reached that point.

It's proven the election process is fixed....what is the next step? What are our options for taking our country back????

[ktowntennesseedem]

16. My gut tells me you may be right, but I'm still hoping your wrong.

I'm still holding out hope for this year's elections, and think what happens then (and what kind of spin is put on the outcome) will tell a lot.

Turning this thing around and cleaning up the mess will take years if not generations. If Dems do thwart GOP corruption and Diebold interference and by some miracle regain control, we can at least begin the clean-up process, at which point I'll be more hopeful, but will still reserve judgment until I see some kind of results. If the GOP maintains their stranglehold, however, then that's it for me. We are either very close to the tipping point, and if so one election will only pull us back from the precipice a little, or we are already past the tipping point, and the elections will simply confirm that awful fact.

[Individualist]

15. Disagree

This nation is now a government of, by and for the corporations. The cabal have as much power as corporations and the media give them, and we've seen the effects of this for the past five years.

[Philosoraptor]

17. kik

[Donald Ian Rankin]

18. Yes and maybe, respectively.

There is no possibility of Bush being removed from power before his term limit runs out.

It may, however, be possible for sufficient political pressure to be brought to bear to end the war in Iraq. However, it would need approval for the war among people who might potentially vote Republican to fall further than it has currently -Bush has little reason to care that people who aren't going to vote for his party anyhow are opposed to it. At present there's some discontent in his own ranks, but not as much as there would be if he pulled out, I suspect.