DU this: Do you believe the entire border with Mexico should be fenced?

[me b zola]

Yep, it's a Dobb's poll.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/


For national security and to stop illegal immigration, do you believe the entire border with Mexico should be fenced?

Yes...86%.. 933 votes

No...14%.. 150 votes


Total: 1083 votes


Egads, sanity needs to be better represented here :D

[sweetheart]

1. Borders and fences make good neighbors they say

Maybe a big prison fence to keep criminal america from infecting mexico would be a good idea.

[me b zola]

3. It wouldn't keep out the BFEE

Halliburton doesn't need another no-bid contract anyhoo.

[EFerrari]

51. Robert Frost said "Good fences make good neighbors" but

he also said, "Something there is that doesn't love a wall, that wants it down." :)

[Nikki Stone 1]

2. Border fence will keep us in as much as keeping others out

....

[Beaverhausen]

4. Done but geez

It's Dobbs - what do you expect?

[me b zola]

7. Well, those initial results are what I expected...

I'm hoping though that if we can DU this Dobbs may see that not as many people support the fence as he thinks--or would like to convince himself.

[countryjake]

21. Notice the poll didn't even get 3000 votes, overall...

people have realized his true colors and deemed him irrelevant. CNN is scrambling to revive his former ratings, posting his ramblings on their home page, but he's become the boondoggle of their network, lol.

[orpupilofnature57]

5. Only if Mexicans reap the total financial benefit and not Halliburton ,

so my answer is no.

[keepCAblue]

6. For national security?

Gee, wasn't it Canada that the terra-ists tried to cross to bring bombs in for the Millenium celebration in L.A.? So why is no one screaming for a 3,000 mile fence along the Canadian border?

When was the last time the evil-doers tried to cross over from Mexico (not including our own CIA who have been smuggling drugs in/out of Mexico)?

[me b zola]

12. Yep, those who believe in the fence

have maybe not thought the concept through very well. :D

[countryjake]

14. And that was by BOAT!

[hogwyld]

37. Well, for the pukes....

Evil doers = Brown People.

[UTUSN]

8. DU which way? There are DUers who say YES. My vote was NO. n/t

[me b zola]

13. Well, I humbly disagree with DUers who would say "yes"

There are more of us who are opposed to the fence for many reasons. :hi:

[RebelOne]

18. Well, I am one of the DUers who voted yes. n/t

[joemurphy]

9. Hell no. It would be another expensive boondoggle. Like Iraq.

When I talk about it to my Mexican friends, they just laugh. Don't underestimate the ingenuity of a hungry Mexican.

[EstimatedProphet]

10. Done. What a bunch of ignorant fuckwits.

Hey! I have a solution to illegal immigration! Let's kill everyone in Mexico!

Stupid asses.

[Robbien]

11. Perhaps if we stayed out of their elections and stop forcing rightwinger

presidents on Mexico, Mexico could work out of the poverty situation it is in as a result of privatization and global corporate greed.

[raccoon]

66. Ding, ding, we have a winner! nt

[countryjake]

15. Sen. Patty Murray wants to know how much it's gonna cost and...

exactly how effective it would actually be. Dobbs tried to make her answer whether or not she'd support the fence bill in the Senate so that was her response. She's busy with her own proposal to make our ports safer, ie. locks on shipping containers and inspecting everything which gets shipped into our country, beginning at the source nations.

[AwareOne]

16. Proudly voted YES, along with 89% majority

I invite you to come to my county, where wages are among the lowest in the country and 80% of all labor is being done by illegals before you judge me.

[keepCAblue]

20. However dismal it is in your county...

...I assure you, it's worse in *their* country. And do you really think a fence is going to stop the tide?

Besides, it's not the illegals who are responsible for driving down wages and taking 80% of your county's jobs, it's the American residents who hire them at slave wages out of greed for increasing their profit margins.

[Berserker]

43. I get so tired

of hearing the same old bullshit " Hire them at slave wages" There are many many construction jobs that are being taken and Its NOT slave wages. Study the facts a little. And the same old bullshit excuse its the people that hire them its ALL their fault.
Its the Illegals fault for coming here Illegally and they are not immigrants they are Illegals, Immigrants come here legally.

[EFerrari]

53. Would you feel better if they were all making slave wages?

What kind of progressive blames poor people for trying to feed their family.

That's just sickening.

[keepCAblue]

55. And I get so tired of ...

... people taking statements out of context. Regarding "slave wages", I was referring to AwareOne's assertion that the reason wages were so low in his/her county was due to the high influx of illegals taking 80% of the jobs away from American workers. If AwareOne's assertion is true, then the only reason those jobs are being filled by illegals is because the American workers won't accept those "stolen" jobs at the low wages allegedly being paid to the illegals.

As for illegal vs. "legal" immigrant, how was it that your ancestors came to the U.S.? Did they hire an immigration law attorney, spend thousands of dollars and wait 5-15 years to finally have their immigration papers approved? Or did they climb on a boat from some far off shore, carrying with them all they could carry from home, with barely enough money to pay for ship's passage and little more? Were they processed, like cattle, through Ellis Island or Angel Island, like countless thousands who--in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries--came here looking for opportunity or freedom. Did they come here, broke but hopeful, willing to accept the shittiest, lowest paying job available because they knew their back-breaking sacrifice would ensure a better future for their children? That's how the vast majority of the Irish, Poles, Brits, Italians, Greeks, Chinese, and others came to this country. They piled into boats, crammed together with other poor, desperate souls, enduring harsh conditions, possibly death, all for the chance of a new life in the promised land that was once America. Their journeys to America were not so different from what the Mexicans, Guatemalans, Salvadorans, et.al., are enduring today.

Inscribed on the Statue of Liberty--the Mother of Exiles--is the following:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

These words apparently have no meaning anymore. Your tired, your poor--NOT your wealthy, your privileged. The wretched refuse and the homeless of present day are not very likely to have the money, time and high-level contacts needed to immigrate legally, not now, what with the bureaucratic mess our government has created of the INS.

And if these words have lost their meaning, which they apparently have, then let's remove the bronze plaque upon which they're engraved, toss it into the fire and burn those words and their legacy from our collective memory. The time for charity is long past it seems.

Yet, without those words, what meaning then does the statue, herself, anymore hold? Let's take her down too; disassemble her beauty, send her fractured pieces back to France with a scrawled note stating we don't need--or want--her anymore, she's outlived her usefulness; no longer symbolized the values that once was the heartbeat of a compassionate, benevolent nation.

To bloody hell with compassion and benevolence anyway.

[Beaverhausen]

22. So why doesn't law enforcement go after the employers of these illegals?

oh yeah...they like cheap labor.

Don't you realize who you support when you support the fence?

[TahitiNut]

33. Prosecuting employers should be priority #1 - no question about it.

The Bushoilinis have totally backed off on employer prosecutions. Totally.

[El Fuego]

23. I voted yes too.

Why should Mexican immigrants be favored over immigrants from other countries just because of physical proximity?

[keepCAblue]

30. U.S. immigrations favors only the wealthy...

Unlike in ages past, it now costs a small fortune to immigrate to the U.S. One could legitimately say that if the U.S. favors anyone, it's the wealthy--those who can afford the tens of thousands it costs in legal fees to immigrate. One could just as legitimately say that the U.S. discriminates against the poor--those who cannot afford the high cost of freedom and opportunity, yet have the most compelling reason for seeking it.

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

[me b zola]

24. Is the fence going to help that?

The fence is nothing more than pandering to the rw voters whom the rw has succeeded in blaming the Mexicans for our labor situation when the cause is big business run amuck. Have you read Thom Hartman's article on the US labor crisis? The key is to harshly punish business for hiring undocumented workers. Dry up the jobs and many undocumented people will go home.

Before we had immigration laws, US companies would falsely advertise in Eastern Europe that the streets of America were paved with gold. What they were doing is flooding the labor market so they could drive down wages and keeping working conditions dangerous. The European imigrants were not at fault for wanting to better their lives, they were being used. It is no different now. You must address the root cause rather than be sold on a "feel good" but useless solution.

[me b zola]

31. Here's Thom Hartman's take on the issue

---and I agree with him.

~snip~

Thus, Americans are concerned that a "flood of illegal immigrants" coming primarily across our southern border is, to paraphrase Lou Dobbs, "wiping out the American middle class." And there is considerable truth to it, as part of the three-part campaign mentioned earlier.

But Dobbs and his fellow Republicans say the solution is to "secure our border" with a fence like that used by East Germany, but that stretches a distance about the same as that from Washington, DC to Chicago. It'll be a multi-billion-dollar boon to Halliburton and Bechtel, who will undoubtedly get the construction and maintenance contracts, but it won't stop illegal immigration. (Instead, people will legally come in on tourist and other visas, and not leave when their visas expire.)

The fact is that we had an open border with Mexico for several centuries, and "illegal immigration" was never a serious problem. Before Reagan's presidency, an estimated million or so people a year came into the US from Mexico - and the same number, more or less, left the US for Mexico at the end of the agricultural harvest season. Very few stayed, because there weren't jobs for them.

~much more @ link~
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0705-23.htm

It's a great read. Hartman understands the complexity of an issue as he views things from a historical framework and knowledge.

[leesa]

36. It is a stupid idea that will fail with certainty. It will cost a FORTUNE

Why not just fine and/or jail the people hiring them???

DUH!

[laura888]

40. I voted YES, too

Things are tough for blue-collar workers everywhere, no doubt.

But the voices of blue-collar American citizens have a chance of being heard by our representatives.

I support them.

While I sympathize with the plight of non-citizens, their agreeing to take on "jobs Americans don't want" (i.e. low-paying jobs that require muscle and brains)undermines our citizens' desire for secure, well-paying work.

I'm confident that the best thing we can do for illegals is to go to Mexico to fight for fair elections.

[EFerrari]

52. You are proud to try to wall out hungry people, progressive?

[rman]

60. it's 1951 miles - it's rediculous

It will make the Halliburtons of this world richer still, and immigrants will just climb over it or swim around it.
If you think a fence will keep you safe from illigal immigrants who come to the US in the first place because the US govt helped create the economic circumstances in Mexico that make it worth to take the risks associated with illigal migration - you'd have to build a fence around all of the US.
Enjoy your Berlin wall.

[Missy M]

17. Americans want to fence in the whole country.....

yet they want to tell the rest of the world how they should live. How about we put a fence around Florida and not let any more Cubans in. I guess it depends on who we are trying to keep out. I disagree with Lou Dobbs on this issue. This has nothing to do with protecting the middle class of America.

[mom cat]

19. Durnit! We gotta keep mericans from exscaping!

[bliss_eternal]

25. What a racist poll...

Why isn't there one about building a fence for the Canadian border? Sheesh. I'm sick of all this picking on Mexicans and villifying them. :(

On edit, just realized it's Dobbs. What else could I expect. :eyes:

[RB TexLa]

26. What do you expect from Lou Dobbs?

[bliss_eternal]

28. LOL--I know,

I just edited my post to reflect that.:) I didn't realize initially that's what it was. His polls are awful.

[DesertRat]

27. Done.

Wow, 89% say Yes :wtf:

[Hamlette]

29. immigration is a simple fix, prosecute those who hire illegals

no one has the will to do that...so we do stupid things, like build fences.

insanity.

[keepCAblue]

32. Terra Alert!!! Hesbollah is in Mexico...

HOUSE APPROVES U.S.-MEXICO BORDER

"We have to come to grips with the fact that our Border Patrol agents need a border fence on our southern border ... where we're now facing infiltration by members of terrorist organizations like Hezbollah," said Rep. Ed Royce (news, bio, voting record), R-Calif.

The bill passed Thursday doesn't pay for the fence. Republicans, estimating the cost at more than $2 billion, said that will be covered in a later spending bill. Democrats estimated the fence would cost $7 billion, based on information from the Department of Homeland Security on costs per mile of a double-layer fence.

"This is nothing more than political gamesmanship in the run-up to the midterm elections. Sounds good. Does nothing," said Rep. Alcee Hastings (news, bio, voting record), D-Fla.

Democrats accused Republicans of playing upon voters' fears to score political points. Rep. Lloyd Doggett (news, bio, voting record), D-Texas, said Republicans were trying to confuse Americans into thinking "Osama bin Laden is heading north in a sombrero."

The bill also directs the Homeland Security Department to take control of the border in 18 months and gives border agents new authority to stop fleeing vehicles. It also calls for a study of the need for a fence on the U.S.-Canadian border.

**************
Hezbollah to the south of us, Osama to the north, stuck in the middle with you...

[Cleita]

34. Big unnecessary expense, since there is still the air and sea

to come in. Better we should shake up Mexico's corrupt government with sanctions to the elite families that own everything until they do the necessary reforms that will create the decent paying jobs that will keep the poverty striken Mexicans at home.

[leesa]

35. Now we'll have to revive Reagan to "pull that wall down" again. IDIOTS

Typical Republican idea...spend a fortune on an idea that is certain to fail, when you have existing law, that if enforced, would stop the problem. Heavily fine and jail the employers of illegal immigrants.

How do Americans get to be so STUPID???

[KamaAina]

38. How about we just build one around Dobbs' studio?

Save major $$$$ that way. :eyes:

[hogwyld]

39. I'm truly saddened by some of my DU comrades

Why is there such a visceral hate for immigrants coming here to make a better life for their families? Now all those who decry about illegal immigrants tell me, what would you do if the situation were reversed, and you had a family on the brink of starvation? Of course you would go to the U.S. for work rather than let your family starve. Either you have compassion, or you don't. There is no middle ground.

[newspeak]

41. shades of the Berlin Wall

is it to keep them out or us in? Create a problem and offer the solution, just like the butterfly ballots in Florida ushering in the bogus machines. I want no wall-what hypocrisy-especially if their superhighway gets off the ground.

[Maestro]

42. When it comes to this topic

I have been wondering the same. And no a fence should not be built because it wouldn't work.

[orpupilofnature57]

46. The truth ,if We become isolationists ,Shrub has won.

[Common Sense Party]

59. You're saying that all 11 million illegals were "on the brink of

starvation"????

Of course you aren't. Because very few of them are in such dire circumstances.

I've met lots of illegals from Mexico, Guatemala and El Salvador. Most of them said they were poor, some middle class, but none told me they were "on the brink of starvation."

Most said they were looking to work here for a few years, save up lots of dollars, and go back to Mexico to live as upper-middle class citizens. Many were wiring much of their pay back to relatives back home--a few so that the family can survive while Dad is in El Norte.

Yes, they here to better their lives, just as some people move from Arkansas to, say, Colorado because they want to better their lives.

[rman]

61. Not all DUers ar comrades

Anyone can be a DUer.

[KamaAina]

44. What about the Canadian border?

If national security were really the issue, wouldn't we be worried about the Canadians, too? After all, a lot of 'em speak French! :sarcasm:

But for some reason, there doesn't seem to be a long line of people waiting to come down from the Great White North to take advantage of our expensive healthcare, biased newscasts, watery beer, and so forth. I'm guessing that's the real reason Dobbs and his ilk harp only on a fence around Mexico. :grr:

[orpupilofnature57]

45. U.S. would lose Billions

[countryjake]

47. If it would cost around eight billion dollars to build a 2000 mile...

long fence from the Gulf Coast to the Pacific; how much do they think it would cost to put up a 4000 mile fence along the Canadian border? But I'm sure if the hysterics of the xenophobes gets loud enough, both borders will eventually be slated for razor-wire.

All any fence is going to do is divert billions of Homeland Security funds away from programs which actually might improve our protection against attacks and make our nation more secure.

[keepCAblue]

56. See post #32...

The bill also directs the Homeland Security Department to take control of the border in 18 months and gives border agents new authority to stop fleeing vehicles. It also calls for a study of the need for a fence on the U.S.-Canadian border.

[soothsayer]

48. part of the border is the rio grande. Sometimes, the US is bigger

and Mexico is smaller, sometimes it's the other way (as the river moves). How do you fence a moving border?

[philosophie_en_rose]

65. Electric eels?

:)

:sarcasm:

[Vidar]

49. done. Oh well.

[Selatius]

50. If it's the only thing that will make people happy, put up the damn fence.

I'm tired of debating the issue. Just put up the fence and put more border patrol agents on there like there should be. Leave openings for legitimate international business, but the rest of the border regions shouldn't be left unpoliced.

[OregonDem]

54. Free nations don't build walls

[Eric J in MN]

57. Done. NT

NT

[windbreeze]

58. I was always told....that a locked door, only keeps an honest man out

so what is a couple thousand mile fence supposed to do now??? stupidity at it's finest..what's the name of that old song..."Don't Fence Me In", and I figure that's the intent of a fence, as much as keeping unwanteds out...oh, then, how about the Canadian border...we gonna fence that one too??? Hell, can't have them Canucks sneaking over the border either...(or us sneaking into their country)
wb

[Broken_Hero]

62. Done, holy cow...what a poll result for this...

For national security and to stop illegal immigration, do you believe the entire border with Mexico should be fenced?



Yes 88%

8234 votes

No 12%

1134 votes
Total: 9368 votes


*****

[rman]

63. "national security..." LOL

People think a fence will stop terrorists? This is hilarious.

[philosophie_en_rose]

64. No national health care and they want a damned fence?

a fence?

Even forgetting the immigration issue (as if a fence would actually make a difference), why the hell would a fence be a priority?

The thing that amazes me in this country is the willingness to spend billions on junk (border fence, George Bush), without demanding the essentials (health care, adequate education, etc).

[keepCAblue]

67. Canadians ought to build their own fence...

...to keep out the dirty Americans.