What would happen if I declared personal secession from the US?

[Ignacio Upton]

I'm not planning on doing this anytime soon (I got the idea from Family Guy when Peter created his own country, which was funny but a stupid idea in practice), but I'm wondering what would happen if I bought a large tract of land, built a compound on it, and then sent a letter to Bush (and the state and local governments to get out of property taxes and all that shit) declaring that the land making up my compound as an independent country. Has anyone ever done something similar to this in recent history?
Also, what do you think Bush's (and the Mayor's and Governor's reaction) would be if I did this?

[shadowknows69]

1. Um...remember Waco?

Not by any means saying you're a David Koresh type but that's how the press would be instructed to paint you.

[Ignacio Upton]

2. Yeah....It seems like something Koresh and McVeigh would do

I'm wondering why that crowd hasn't done anything crazy against Bush? I'm sure that they'll pop up again in 2009 when a Democrat is in office.
Although, I don't think that Koresh declared secession. If I were to do it (and I won't because it's a waste of time and money), I wouldn't arm myself, but I would refuse to let any federal and state officials onto my land for any purposes.

[Selatius]

18. David Koresh got in trouble for having illegal automatic weapons

That's why the ATF was there along with the FBI.

[Kutjara]

3. Well, an American citizen seeking to take territory...

...away from the US would probably be guilty of treason, the penalty for which is death.

A foreign citizen would have committed an act of war on the US, and would probably get a couple of cruise missiles up their ass.

Neither option is particularly appealing.

[Ignacio Upton]

4. What if someone doing that sent a letter to Bush

Declaring that his land is no longer part of the U.S.? I have a hard time believing that the military would put boots on the ground and fire at the compound the second they get there.

[Kutjara]

8. In reality, it would depend how much popular support...

...the 'secessionists' got. If it looked like they were becoming a 'movement', I feel sure the government would make a big example of them.

If they just fenced off an area and refused to pay tax, the Feds would wait until the tax bill hit a certain threshhold and then issue arrest warrants. The warrents would, of course, be enforced by lots of guys in stormtrooper gear with big guns.

I don't think sending Bush a letter would make much difference either way. I wouldn't be surprised if the White House gets five letters a week from rugged individualists who want to turn their trailer parks into the next mini-State.

[shadowknows69]

9. I want to live in your world

My money's on them shooting "your land", and you, full of so many holes your survivors could open a golf course.

[pnwmom]

13. No, but if you stopped paying your taxes the IRS would come after you.

And you could end up in jail.

This isn't an original idea. But usually, it's the far right wingers who think it up.

[Ignacio Upton]

14. If I knew the tax code (which I don't )

I could probably look for some legal loopholes to keep them away. And buying cheap land in a place like Idaho (where some of the other anti-government types live) would result in paying next to nothing in property taxes.

[Art_from_Ark]

5. Well, there was the ill-fated attempt to found the Rep. of Minerva

on two tiny islands in the Pacific back in the early '70s, but the Tongan army quickly put an end to that movement (luckily without bloodshed).

http://fotw.vexillum.com/flags/to_min.html

Then on the other side of the coin, there is Hutt River Province in Australia, which is apparently still operative since its founding in 1970

http://www.hutt-river-province.com/

[Will Scoffield]

6. Odds are nobody would notice but

you would probably get a lot of mail.

[newyawker99]

22. Hi Will Scofield!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Will Scoffield]

27. Thank you, newyawker99.

:toast:

[Parisle]

7. On the other hand,....

---- There is a fairly active and popular secession movement in Vermont, led by Dr. Thomas Naylor. Their website is www.vermontrepublic.org ..... I wrote their "state sovereignty resolution" last year, and it appears among the collected essays and other writings on the site,... Take a look,...

[Syrinx]

10. Gitmo!

:evilgrin:

[Ignacio Upton]

11. I don't want to piss off "Agent Mike"

So that's why I put the disclaimers in this thread.

[carpetbagger]

12. People do it all the time.

You need guns, isolation, and enough local support to make the sherriff look the other way (that can be both general anti-government feeling as well as specific support).

Here's an introduction to how people try to declare taxes invalid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_arguments

[seriousstan]

15. A good rule of thumb is never take a comedy cartoon idea seriously

[Freedom_from_Chains]

16. There were some states in the south that tried that a few years back

As I recall, it didn't work out real well.

[Selatius]

17. You'll have the FBI and the IRS all over you like white on rice.

If you secede, it is logical to assume you won't pay taxes anymore, so those two will come for you for tax evasion.

If you use non-violent methods and they resort to violence to put you down, you may end up dead, but you'll end up being a martyr for your cause that led you to secede in the first place.

BTW, what main grievance would you highlight as the reason for your secession?

To be honest, I don't hold very much faith in the government at this point in time.

[RebelOne]

20. I met someone who had personally seceded from the U.S.

And he hadn't paid taxes in 21 years and was in an ongoing fight with the IRS, but ended up winning his case.

[WilliamPitt]

19. If you did this with integrity, your life would suck

You'd have to stop paying taxes, which would incur the wrath of state and federal authorities. Because you are no longer a citizen, and refuse to support a foreign state with tax money, you would not be able to use the local schools, roads, and other taxpayer-funded amenities. You'd have to grow your own food, lest risk depletion of financial resources by importing food from foreign territory. If you buy a gun, they'll blow up your house.

[Blackthorn]

21. It's been done.

Hutt River Province in Australia. This guys has his own currency AND stamps.

http://www.hutt-river-province.com/new_page_3.htm

And I quote:

The Principality of Hutt River is situated 595 km north of Perth, Western Australia and is about 75 square km in size, consisting of some 18,500 acres of land.

Hutt River is an Independent Sovereign State having seceded from Australia on the Twenty First Day of April 1970 and is of comparable size to Hong Kong (not the New Territories).

The Principality consists of undulating farmland well covered in places with a wealth of shrubs and glorious wildflowers.

H.R.H. Prince Leonard, a keen supporter of both the Arts and Conservation, has named parts of the Principality with such identities as Lake Beginning, Mount Secession, Lake Serenity and Wild Boar Gorge. His town site, Nain, has been developed with many buildings to provide facilities for the tourists who visit in their thousands each year.

These facilities include The Administration Building containing the Government Office and Post Office, Tea Rooms with Swimming Pool and a charming Inter-Denominational Chapel as well as the arcade housing the Memorabilia Dept. and Historical Society displays.

It is perhaps of interest to note, that Western Australia was actually never proclaimed by Captain Stirling as British Territory, as was required of him under his Letter Patent.

He only Proclaimed a Settlement (the Swan Settlement) in Western Australia.

[genie_weenie]

23. The US and every other Nation-State

have claimed every inch of land on the planet, with notable exceptions of Antartica, and will enforce their claims with violence against your person.

Short Answer: They will imprison or kill you.

[Totallybushed]

24. Probably nothing,

except that when you didn't pay your taxes, they'd seize you land and throw your ass in jail.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. You'd get the "anti-militia" treatment

Back in the Soviet era, East Germans practiced what they called "inner migration."

That is, they did their own thing and paid as little attention as possible to what was going on politically. Some well-educated people even took low-status jobs (cleaning crew, garbage collection) so that they didn't have to suck up to Communist Party officials.

[leftofthedial]

26. unpleasant visit from the FBI

[BrotherBuzz]

28. The Conch Republic did and tourist trade flourished

The Conch Republic was established by secession of the Florida Keys from the United States of America, on April 23rd, 1982 in response to a United States Border Patrol Blockade setup on highway U.S.1 at Florida City just to the north of the Florida Keys. This heinous act effectively isolated Keys Citizens from the U.S. mainland since the blockade was on our only land artery to and from the mainland. This roadblock portrayed Keys residents as non-U.S. citizens who had to prove their citizenship in order to drive onto the Florida mainland! Hardly an American thing to do!

http://www.conchrepublic.com/history.htm

[Nikia]

29. My husband's former boss wanted to do this

His actual plan was to get his family declared a church and to avoid getting birth certificates and social security numbers for his children who will be home schooled. I am guessing that his children will rebel around the time that they want to get jobs and be able to legally drive.