Why is "Girly-Man" acceptable, and "Macaca" not?

[Wetzelbill]

Why is "Girly-Man" acceptable, and "Macaca" not?

by Bill Wetzel

"She maybe is Puerto Rican or the same thing as Cuban. I mean they are all very hot. They have, you know, part of the black blood in them and part of the Latino blood in them that, together, makes it." - Arnold Schwarzenegger


With those comments, Arnold has joined a growing list of Republican lawmakers who have recently made racially insensitive, if not downright racist comments. However, unlike George "Macaca" Allen and Conrad "Little Guatemalan Man" Burns, Schwarzenegger's comments have another disparaging tinge to them. One that is made even worse when you look at his own personal history.

You see, anybody can make a stupid comment. In fact, anybody can do a stupid thing or two. We all have. And, in today's media frenzied climate, a public figure is in constant danger of stepping on his tongue for almost any comment on any subject, however innocuous their intentions may be. It happens.

Although, the problem with Arnold is that he has one consistent running theme in his background. He has problems in dealing with women. His past is littered with unwelcome advances and misogynistic quotes. He has famously devalued women as a way of attacking men, because in his world associating femininity with masculinity (girly-men) is a horrible affliction.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_bill_wet_060916_why_is__22girly_man_22_a.htm

[Erika]

1. Republicans just have a need to put others down

The worse the slam they can provide, the better they like it. Some kind of mental defect. Limbaugh, Savage, Ingraham, Hannity, et al. They all share it.

[LostInAnomie]

2. By defining a group of people or a behavior...

... into a narrow definition they make it easier to ridicule. By ridiculing the group or behavior sends weak individuals get the message that if they wish to be accepted they should not only distance themselves from the group or behavior but also join in the ridicule themselves.

It is a cowardly act that bullies use to get the weak minded behind them.

[Ninja Jordan]

3. Not race specific...

[etherealtruth]

5. "Only" gender specific ...

We all know women have not been oppressed by sexism:sarcasm:

[Wetzelbill]

12. that is exactly what I mean

Sure, it is not race specific, which of course would be a bad thing if it was, but it is gender specific and just as terrible. So why let that slide, you know? :)

[etherealtruth]

49. Touche` ...n/t

[Ninja Jordan]

47. Ehhh

it's originally from a comedy routine; I don't really see how it's comparable to macaca. Are you saying women are offended by the term?

[etherealtruth]

50. Yes it is from a comedy routine ...

However, when one states, "You throw like a girl ... run like a girl ..." the implication is that the person does not "do it' as well as a man.

I DO think it sends girls/women the message that to "do 'it' like a girl" is doing it in an inferior way. Substitute any other group (even if from a comedy routine) and it would not be acceptable.

[skids]

4. There's a history behind it, that's why.

The term originally appeared in a Saturday Night Live skit which was making fun of Ahnold.

Eventually Ahnold appeared on the skit in good humor.

Due to the origin of the term Ahnold is able to pass its use off as a joke and allusion to his celebrity career.

[Wetzelbill]

11. yeah, I used the term as an example of

overall sexism in our discourse. What I write about in the article is not the term per se, but the denigration of women in our society's gender discourse. History of the one term aside, most people do not see sexism, or even consider genuine sexist remarks all that bad. Remarks related to race are much more likely to be noticed and criticized.

[Dogmudgeon]

6. "Girly-Man" is from a comedy routine

It makes it a lot tougher to call it a stupid remark, and undercuts the (mostly correct) argument.

Arnold, like Bush, may be a buffoon, but he's not stupid, and I don't doubt that he's worked some of this stuff out in advance.

--p!

[Wetzelbill]

9. yeah, but besides that being from a comedy routine

sexism in general is much more acceptable than racism. Call somebody a "nigger" and all hell would break loose, yet if a man calls somebody a "bitch" well nobody really cares even though they are both reprehensible terms.

[Dogmudgeon]

19. True to a great extent.

Arnold calculated well. He and his supporters can say, "What are you getting so upset about? I said it in jest!" So, even bringing the subject up allows him to look better than he deserves.

And women, too, use reprehensible terms. Have you ever heard women talk when they "dish" men? Unlike "the C word", there is no completely taboo term of abuse for men -- anything goes. The word "bitch", too, really has no male-only version. "Bastard" -- ? No, "bastard" is often used as a compliment. To insult men, you must go in reverse, and accuse them of a lack of aggression and sexuality (and penile turgor). Like the insult "girly man". Which, bwa-ha, started out as a joke lampooning machismo.

And "fuck 'em if they can't take a joke", right?

(That wasn't directed toward you, by the way. It's so commonly invoked that it's nearly a Truism.)

Much of this, itself, is a product of sexism. There isn't simply a lot of sexism in the USA, but it is certainly prominent, and it's being excused in cutesy terms like "the Battle of the Sexes".

Overall, there's an abysmal lack of respect for one another in our culture, and a lot of it masquerades as humor, irony, and hipness. It started on November 8, 1972, the day after Nixon won a 49-state landslide against George McGovern, and has accelerated and deepened since, oh, December 12, 2000 (Bush v Gore).

--p!

[EFerrari]

7. You ask the best questions, Bill

:toast:

[Wetzelbill]

10. well you know

aw shucks. :)

[EFerrari]

14. I remember last year, when I was grieving Andy. You got me thinking

about Vonnegut 'round about Christmas time. I really appreciated that.

Thanks.

:)

[Wetzelbill]

16. well your welcome

:)

[dsc]

8. That is a very good point

In his case the sexist part should be treated worse since it is part of a pattern where the racial part isn't, to the best of current knowledge.

[lonestarnot]

13. It's another mystery how this fucker got elected in a state as blue

as CA. Fucking freak is not acceptable to me.

[Wetzelbill]

15. no kidding

did you see the Huff Post story about all the Dems in Hollywood who gave that guy money? Lots of them not for political, but personal reasons, one guy said Arnold was nice to his kid. Hey you know what, I know lots of Repubs who are pretty nice people, but I sure as shit wouldn't give them any money so they can run my city, state or country. Let alone a heel like Arnold. It is a damn mystery for sure.

[lonestarnot]

17. Just unfuckingbelievable how stupid people are. I missed the

story do you have a link? I'll go over there if you don't. You don't have to look for me. Thanks Wetzelbill.

[Wetzelbill]

20. no problem at all

http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/some-hwood-dems-used-abused-by-arnold/

[lonestarnot]

21. The following sonofabitches need broadcasting

Among the Hollywood Dems who've contributed to Schwarzenegger are Sherry Lansing, Casey Wasserman, Danny DeVito, Rhea Perlman and James Cameron (all of whom helped host a massive fundraiser) as well as Tom Werner, Cindy Horn, Chris Albrecht, Billy Friedkin, Peter Chernin and Ron Meyer. Meanwhile, the LAT got it wrong: Sam Haskell, former TV head for the William Morris Agency, ain't no Democrat: he's long been a big GOP man and personal friend of Trent Lott. (Guess that's what happens when the paper takes its info directly from the Schwarzenegger side without fact checking.) Underestimated in this whole sorry business has been the incredible influence behind-the-scenes of Andy Spahn, the former DreamWorks political advisor who recently went out on his own. A long-time Democratic stalwart, Spahn agreed to steer dollars from fat cat Hollywood Dems towards the Guv's coffers. Yeah, like Schwarzenegger doesn't have enough campaign cash already. Records show that he's raised around $100 million since slithering into Sacramento on the promise not to be beholden to special interests. Example: the "no special-interest money" governor has taken more than $2 million in campaign contributions from Big Oil.


I don't recognize some of the names so I'm going to try to find pics of every one of them and post them. Danny DeVito! What a fucking disappointment!

[lonestarnot]

26. Tom Werner

http://wzus.ask.com/r?t=p&d=us&s=a&c=p&l=dir&o=333&sv=0a300517&ip=44032ac9&id=857F9F51D74D287779B5F35AA972A881&q=Tom+Werner&p=1&qs=2072&ac=24&g=1c5d1suph3bD0r&en=js&io=1&ep=&eo=&b=img&bc=&br=&tp=d&ec=4&pt=JS%20thumbnail&ex=&url=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.forbes.com%252F2001%252F12%252F21%252F1221facesam.html&u=http://images.ask.com/fr?q=Tom+Werner&desturi=http%3A%2F%2F%26f%3D2%26fm%3Di%26ftbURI%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fimages.ask.com%252Fpictures%253Fq%253DTom%252BWerner%2526page%253D1&qt=0

[Wetzelbill]

28. don't look into his eyes

He'll steal your soul. :)

[lonestarnot]

29. Never look into the eyes!

[lonestarnot]

27. Sherry Lansing

http://images.ask.com/pictures?q=Sherry+Lansing&qsrc=31&o=333&l=dir

[lonestarnot]

30. Casey Wasserman

http://images.ask.com/pictures?q=Casey+Wasserman&qsrc=31&o=333&l=dir

[lonestarnot]

31. Rhea Pearlman

http://images.ask.com/pictures?q=Rhea+Pearlman&qsrc=31&o=333&l=dir

[lonestarnot]

32. James Cameron

http://images.ask.com/pictures?q=James+Cameron&qsrc=31&o=333&l=dir

[lonestarnot]

33. Cindy Horn

http://images.ask.com/pictures?q=Cindy+Horn&qsrc=31&o=333&l=dir

[lonestarnot]

34. Chris Albrecht

http://images.ask.com/pictures?q=Chris+Albrecht&qsrc=31&o=333&l=dir

[lonestarnot]

35. Billy Friedkin

http://images.ask.com/pictures?q=Billy+Friedkin&qsrc=31&o=333&l=dir

[lonestarnot]

36. Peter Chernin

http://images.ask.com/pictures?q=Peter+Chernin+&qsrc=31&o=333&l=dir

[lonestarnot]

38. Ron Meyer

http://images.ask.com/pictures?q=Ron+Meyer&qsrc=31&o=333&l=dir

[lonestarnot]

39. Sam Haskell - PAL to Trent Lottacrap and we all know what a PAL does.

http://images.ask.com/pictures?q=Sam+Haskell&qsrc=31&o=333&l=dir

[lonestarnot]

40. -Andy Spahn (spahn? ick reproduction)

http://images.ask.com/pictures?q=Andy+Spahn&qsrc=31&o=333&l=dir

[lonestarnot]

41. And one of my used to be personal favorite traitors Danny Divito

http://images.ask.com/pictures?q=Danny+Divito&qsrc=31&o=333&l=dir

The Fucking Traitor!

[Wetzelbill]

43. so did you get them all?

:)

[lonestarnot]

45. They're all here!

}(

[EST]

18. The same unreasoning that underlies the human penchant-

-mostly publiclown, of course-for naming anything that one wants to oppose as uncultured or despicable, witness "gook, spic, wap, kraut," etc.

We all do it-notice my own reference to the authoritarian right wing as "publiclowns" and trying to find an even uglier, more punchy, and more memorable term to deflate the opposition.

The state of mind that emotionally catapults some people into the republican path allows, permits, or even demands that they use socially deplorable term for liberals.

Republicans often get snagged by their own proclivities as they tend to use racially or sexually specific terms, stemming from their attitudes and need to impress themselves and their fellows.

This all stems from fear. Republicans hate gays, as a rule, because they are scared to heath that they might discover that they, themselves, are gay or that the person they've chosen to dominate as a life partner might betray them with someone of the same sex. They think that gays are, by definition, effeminate, so they try to cast democrats as effeminate - girly men, for instance - so that the dems can be defined as gay and thus eligible for hate.
The term, girly man, is simply code, to communicate to their like minded dickhead fellows that it's ok, even approved, to hate 'em.

[lonestarnot]

22. more of the labeling bullshit just like one of the steps toward

genocide. Read the eight steps.

[lonestarnot]

23. K & R! Damn it!

[Wetzelbill]

24. you are totally hardcore

:)

:patriot:

:rofl:

[lonestarnot]

25. Can't be any other way Wetzelbill!

:patriot:

[bigtree]

37. it started as a seemingly innocuous snicker on SNL

harmless enough with it's parody of Arnold. It was a sarcastic joke meant to poke fun at 'manly' types, stereotypes. The ones who ripped it off, however, didn't get the joke, as, they took on the stereotyped role of the ignorant musclehead and berated others perhaps less endowed with the 'girly-man' taunt.

They didn't get it. I think it's interesting that you see the bias and the toleration of it. It is like racism and prejudice; accepted, I suppose, because there isn't a public, sustained reaction against it which would make it socially unacceptable and cause some interfering reaction. All of the elements that serve to accomodate and allow racism to exist, enable this phrase to serve as a slur whenever someone sees fit. If it matters to folks, they might be well-served to consider your feelings and reaction to it and adjust their own reaction and reponse to reflect that.

[Wetzelbill]

42. I think something that is a joke in one way

can definitely be used in another way that is much more destructive. Big difference between a funny skit, and say some bully berating a smaller kid with that term, you know?

One problem is, well, I don't have a reaction to it. Other than I think it's pretty hypocritical for a bunch of wimpy Republicans to accuse Dems of being weak. I actually had to stop and think about sexism and how these words are used negatively in gender discourse. Then I started to get it somewhat. However, it is likely that I will hear - or do hear - sexist language everyday and I don't even think twice about it. It so permeates our culture it is nearly silent to us. Unless we look for it. That silence makes it excusable, when it truly shouldn't be.

[HardRocker05]

44. Unfortunately, using "female" as an insult is totally acceptable among mos

most people. The flip side is that "manliness" is used to be synonymous with virtue. Why any woman would give the time of day to guys who do this is beyond me.

[lonestarnot]

46. Manliness to some means muscle and no brain I guess.

[NewJeffCT]

48. It's partly a difference in the wording & tone

Macaca is a vicious derogatory comment, akin to using "nigger" - there is no way it could be positive when used like Allen used it. Calling somebody "hot" is not nearly as vicious a slam. If Arnold had said because they had black blood or Latino blood, they were ugly/stupid/etc then it would have been as bad as macaca.

It's still not right, but if you use a stereotype in what is considered "positive" by some, then it is generally not considered as bad a mistake.

[lonestarnot]

51. This sounds like you might like Arniebarney.

[NewJeffCT]

53. Not at all

I'm just saying it's the context of how Arnold said it that makes it not as bad a slur as saying "macaca" - saying somebody is attractive because of their ethnicity is not as bad as saying somebody is a lesser/lower person because of it. It's not right, as I said in my original response, but it is not considered as bad because of how he said it.

[kiahzero]

52. Simple: It's still OK to be sexist.

Sure, you have to be a little more coy about it than you used to, but with that caveat, it's still socially acceptable to believe and act upon the belief that biological differences should imply differences in behavior.