Let's "clarify" one lie that's making the rounds on morning talk shows...

[kentuck]

The CIA and the US military personnel are trained on the meaning of the Geneva Convention rules and the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). When the President comes out into the Rose Garden and says that these young men need to know they are not "breaking the laws", he needs to be called on it. It's not that the CIA and the military do not know the rules of the Geneva Convention, it is that they were given orders by their superiors that these enemy combatants, these "terrorists", were not to be considered the same as enemies in the past. They were following orders from the top. That is the point that needs to be "clarified".

[rodeodance]

1. Good point.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

2. Thanks. I was getting dizzy listening to Hadley on This Week.

[madokie]

3. he being the one who needs to learn a few things.

the professional know

[spanone]

4. This tells me one thing. WE are already torturing people.

Period.

[Danascot]

27. ... including the imprisonment, torture and rape of children

This is being done in your name, America.

"...coalition forces are holding more than 100 children in jails such as Abu Ghraib. Witnesses claim that the detainees – some as young as 10 – are also being subjected to rape and torture."

http://www.sundayherald.com/43796

[MindMatter]

5. Another thing that is lost in all of this ...

is that the press is letting the White House completely skirt the issue of torture in the hands of our partners. All the talk is about what an American EMPLOYEE would do. The whole point of the secret prisons was to get the prisoners into the hands of people who aren't bound by any of this. Why is nobody talking about that?

[kentuck]

6. And another point that needs to be "clarified"...

The laws have already been broken...intentionally. They cannot whitewash criminal acts by passing retroactive laws that contradict the rules agreed to by all the nations that signed onto the Geneva Convention rules. The laws have already been broken. Crimes have already been committed. When the President announced that 14 prisoners had been moved from "secret prisons" to Guantanamo Bay, he admitted to breaking the laws. He cannot now plead ignorance of the law.

[Solly Mack]

7. Thank you!

[emanymton]

8. 'Law Of Land Warfare' - Clear And Understandable ...

Another GOP Talking Point Smoke Screen!

USA military people are trained to follow Law Of Land Warfare (LLW). It is the law and military people understand the law must be followed. This is one of the backbones of USA military leadership and training!

Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) people are _NOT_ military personnel. LLW does not apply to them. Do not allow the GOP to use this as a smoke screen. This is another sorry sad example of the administration trying to govern under the policy, “Here is the law, how do we get around it.”

CIA are not covered as military persons under Geneva Convention.

[lonestarnot]

9. I know I was and everyone in my unit was.

[muesa]

10. My recollection

Is that we had about 40 hours of classes in the Geneva Conventions, IHL, and the UCMJ - which is more then Bush seems to have had. (I was in OCS right after the Gideon and Miranda cases were decided and that was part of the program).

[ladym55]

23. Well, it appears you were paying attention

Our pretzeldent was probably making spitballs, doodling, or drooling during his training. His daddy had his back, so the rules for the rest of us have never applied. :eyes:

[Lasher]

29. Actually, Junior never went to OCS

He got a rare direct appointment after basic training, bypassing OCS. This clearly shows that the rules for the rest of us have never applied to him, thanks to daddy - just as you say.

[riona]

11. So far

he has redefined war, redefined "enemy", redefined torture, and sadly, our Constitution.

[emmadoggy]

26. Yeah,

and everyone had a fit when Clinton said, "it depends on what your definition of "is" is." Bush just makes up his own definitions for pretty much
everything. :eyes:

[bigbrother05]

12. ding ding ding ding ding

For more than 60 years, the military has been trained to observe the rules/laws. What the CIA has done is less clear, but we all (those that remember Nam) have seen glimpses of the techniques that have crossed the line, with the treatment of VC captives up to the latest news from Iraq, Cuba, and "secret" overseas prisons.

Alberto Gonzales tipped their hand with his "quaint" comments and this misAdministration has unleashed the basest instincts of frightened/pissed off interrogators to do whatever they think might get one extra bit of info. The only thing they are trying to do now is to get the Congress to give them retroactive cover for their criminal activities. As the OP stated, the interrogators knew the law and when they crossed the line. It is the higher ups that are at the greatest risk, they don't care about anyone but themselves.

Send them to the Hague!!!

Edited to add: Gave it #5, on to the greatest.

[soothsayer]

14. can';t send them to the hague cuz we decided the US wouldn't

participate in the world court (no doubt because we were already doing this illegal stuff)

[yowzayowzayowza]

13. Also, how long until...

we fail to thwart an attack due to wasted resources from a torture induced goose chase?

[The Deacon]

15. Already Happened

Some DUers here will remember the specifics (I'm thinking it was the Incredible Vanishing New York Subways Plot) but an "enemy non-combatant" was "rendered" to Egypt was he made up a plot simply to stop the "alternative interrogation techniques" employed by the Egyptian secret police. It seems I remember several "terror plots" which were foiled by Dear Leader without any explaination of where the information came from - or any subsequent arrests of people involved in these Nefarious Deeds. Can any other DUers fill in the blanks?

[yowzayowzayowza]

22. A good question for * from the press:

How many CIA & FBI agents are you going to propose adding to chase down all the bad intelligence generated by this new torture regimen?

[Cleita]

16. You are so right. n/t

[young_at_heart]

17. Bottom Line: Can we trust what the president says?

He has assured us of so many things that turn out not to be true. How do they REALLY know they are not "breaking the laws"....pretty sad state of affairs when you can't trust your own president!

[bleever]

18. Correct.

K&R.

[bbgrunt]

19. bingo.

[K8-EEE]

20. K&R!!! Tony Snow Says "It's Never Come Up..."

WTF? The Geneva Conventions have "never come up?" What the hell are they talking about and why don't people call them on this bullshit!!

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. Isn't amazing how we were all clear about the Geneva Convention

and accepted it until Bush turned up?

You know what's going to happen if Bush has his way? Soldiers like Shoshona Johnson and Private Lynch are never going to make it back alive.

[Cleita]

24. And if he get's kidnapped, neither is he. n/t

[Lost-in-FL]

25. First week of Basic training

That is what is taught, UCMJ and Geneva Convention.

Also, "Don't ask don't tell" and "Sexual Harassment".

[Dem2theMax]

28. Too bad we can't plaster this all over the country -

"Do you really want your DAUGHTERS fighting a war WITHOUT the Geneva Convention rules protecting them?"