IRS won't back down in persecution of liberal church

[villager]

Investigating Liberal Calif. Church
Sep 16 12:22 PM US/Eastern






The Internal Revenue Service has ordered a prominent liberal church to turn over documents and e-mails it produced during the 2004 election year that contain references to political candidates.
The IRS is investigating whether All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena violated the federal tax code when its former rector, Rev. George F. Regas, delivered an anti-war sermon on the eve of the last presidential election.

Tax-exempt organizations are barred from intervening in political campaigns and elections, and the church could lose its tax-exempt status.

Rev. Ed Bacon received a summons Thursday ordering the church to present any politically charged sermons, newsletters and electronic communications by Sept 29.

Bacon was ordered to testify before IRS officials Oct. 11. He said he will inform his roughly 3,500 congregants about the investigation at Sunday's services, and will seek their advice on whether to comply.

"There is a lot at stake here," Bacon said. "If the IRS prevails, it will have a chilling effect on the practice of religion in America."

An IRS spokesperson declined comment on the investigation.

<snip>


http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/09/16/D8K629Q01.html

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

1. Link please?

[villager]

2. you're fast! I was just going to get it!

(working w/ an old broswer:)

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/09/16/D8K629Q01.html

[yourout]

3. "If the IRS prevails, it will have a chilling effect......

should say....."If the IRS prevails, it will have a chilling effect on the practice of PROGRESSIVE religion in America." IRS would never investigate the likes of Dobson or Robertson.

[villager]

11. exactly, and because of that, a serious response is demanded

otherwise, it's another huge step for the dark side to foist a single "state church" on us...

[I_Make_Mistakes]

18. And these so called religious leaders should be charged with

HATE speech and they aren't either. When a so called Man of God preaches that a foreign head of state should be assassinated, they should be prosecuted under Hate speech/crimes and yet crickets.

I would also like to see AC prosecuted as well, for hate speech. Just imagine if an Imam, called for the death of liberals!

Ann would love Gitmo, so many men, so little time!

[spanone]

4. Yet Pat Robertson roams the earth free of tax collection. Sick.

[Fire Walk With Me]

33. This is simply more of the pattern of seeing who is on what side.

Robertson, and the churches that pass out voter guides, are in favor of the republicans, even if they all don't focus on the exact same direction. They're still republicans. See who supports them and who opposes them.

Note that the last Pope called the invasion of Iraq wrong, a mistake. This one insults Muslims.

Clarity is simply a matter of waiting and watching. As this is lining up to be a lot of corporations and money on the republican side, one must seek allies for our side, and hope that the power and money hungry will stay within the bounds of adult expectation and discourse. Ha! I made a funny. They've stolen elections and are simply flexing their agendas. Where could this possibly go???

[Monkeyman]

5. In my humble opinion they should look into far right churchs

I think that have given up their tax free exemption by being political

[Disturbed]

10. Any church that endorses specific Political Candidates

should lose the Tax Exempt status.

Strange that the IRS starts with a "Liberal" church, aint it? :sarcasm:

[knitter4democracy]

15. You mean churches like the one near our zoo?

They had a candidate's sign on their lawn out front. Two of them, actually. How is that not engaging in politics?

[JDPriestly]

20. Did you complain to the IRS?

Maybe someone has to complain in order for the IRS to start an action.

[knitter4democracy]

25. I am thinking about it.

They took them down after the primary. If I see them up for the election, I will report them.

[kestrel91316]

31. Unfortunately, RW churches' support of Bush is treated as

practice of religious doctrine and is therefore UNTOUCHABLE.

It's only liberalism that is considered political, and therefore a no-no.

[SmokingJacket]

6. Well, if churches engage in politics, they should lose their

tax-exempt status.

Of course, the right wing does this all the time, but it doesn't make it all right.

[tuvor]

26. "Engage in politics" is vague. What exactly did they do wrong?

My understanding is that the line is crossed only when specific candidates are supported, and there's nothing to indicate they did so.

[lonestarnot]

7. What about the 700 club and all those fuckwads?

[Gregorian]

16. And all of those churches who were preaching Bush pre-2004!

It's well known the word was given (along with CASH) to preach Bush along side the gospel.

Does anyone recall that????

They had better be just in their inquisition, or else.

[lonestarnot]

27. Yes, because selective inforcement is bullshit!

Else what?

[Gregorian]

29. Else what? I was thinking the same thing.

It would be something. It would be a potential problem, if scrutinized.

But then, you know, who's watching? Who's paying attention.

God, it's like (I want to say anarchy), chaos in America. But it's organized. And anarchy gets a bad rap.

I just want justice. But justice belongs to the high bidder. How are we any different than the survival of the fittest now? Oops, I'm starting to go into stream of consciouness typing. I better step away from the keyboard... :)

[villager]

28. well, exactly.

n/t

[TahitiNut]

8. The Bush IRS will next penalize every church named "Prince of Peace"!!

After all, that's an anti-war message ... and dissent in Bushoilini Amerika isn't tolerated!!

[Karenina]

9. Talk about "selective enforcement"

:puke:

[CarlVK]

12. Remember when Nixon swore he'd use the IRS against his enemies?

I think that comment was even caught on the infamous taping sessions that led to his downfall.

Anyway, I guess this tactic is a long held one among presidents, albeit not this bad considering the horrific criminal who occupies our Oval Office at the present.

[AZBlue]

13. Interesting situation. Did they really break the law?

The law needs to be better defined. If you don't tell someone specifically how to vote, then is it against the law to discusss such things as war, abortion, homosexuality, etc if these things are part of their religious belief? Isn't that part of religious freedom? And, unfortunately, that applies to the Fundamental churches as well.

It has to be decided and has to be the same for everyone, no matter what side of the aisle you are on.

[1620rock]

14. Uh huh, and Fred Phelps just keeps on going and going.

[JDPriestly]

21. Didn't some Catholic clergy suggest their parishioners

should not vote for candidates that supported the right to choose? Shouldn't they too be investigated?

[teamster633]

22. My former church certainly did.

I wrote the pastor and complained. When he chose not to publicly rectify this before the election I left the parish. I haven't been back since. In my opinion, they are all accomplices to chimpolini's crimes now.

[AZBlue]

30. Yes, and that's pretty clearly over the line.

As soon as you mention the words "candidate" or "vote," you've gone too far (whether or not you name candidates by name). And those churches should be investigated.

The question I was asking is what about preaching on a subject that's become political without mentioning elections or candidates specifically. That's a pretty fine line but I don't see anyting wrong with it. Sure, it's a way to get around the law and the other side can use it just as easily as we can - but it also seems to me that subjects for sermons should be left up to the individual church and congregation. Isn't that what freedom of religion is all about?

[WinkyDink]

17. Well, there goes the Sermon on the Mount!

[I_Make_Mistakes]

19. IIRC weren't the RW political agents trying to get the church rolls

for contact? I can't remember how that turned out, but, I think they were trying to get the membership rosters, does anyone remember?

[JDPriestly]

32. Absolutely.

My dad used to explain the miracle of the loaves and fishes: Jesus taught people to share what they had and there was plenty for all. I find that to be such a wonderful explanation -- and it taught me to understand that miracles can happen in peoples' hearts.

[Cha]

23. So WHY is it not okay for

a Liberal Church to say what it wants and OKAY for zealots to preach war on Iraq from the pulpits????????????????????????????????????????? Inquiring Liberal minds want to know?!

[tuvor]

24. Here's another discussion on the same issue & link to UPI story

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2156341#2156393