WP editorial: Bush prison "program" signature of 3rd World dictatorships

[DeepModem Mom]

A License to Abuse
Mr. Bush says he has "one question" for Congress. The right answer to it is "no."
Sunday, September 17, 2006; Page B06

PRESIDENT BUSH made crystal clear Friday that he has one overriding concern about the legislation on foreign detainees before Congress. His "one test," he said, was whether Congress would authorize what he repeatedly called "the program" -- that is, the CIA's network of secret prisons and its brutal treatment of the people in them. "Congress has got a decision to make," Mr. Bush declared during a news conference. "Do you want the program to go forward or not?"

That is indeed the most important question before Congress and the nation. So allow us to elaborate, again, exactly what Mr. Bush means by "the program." He's talking about the practice of sequestering terrorist suspects indefinitely and without charge in secret foreign locations and holding them incommunicado even from the International Red Cross. Until recently, such "disappearances" were the signature of Third World dictatorships. U.S. adoption of them has roiled relations with our closest European allies and impeded collaboration with foreign police and intelligence services.

Mr. Bush also wants the CIA to be able to treat its detainees to such practices as "cold cell," or induced hypothermia, in which detainees are held naked in near-freezing temperatures and repeatedly doused with water; "long standing," in which prisoners are handcuffed in an uncomfortable standing position and forced to remain there for up to 40 hours; and prolonged sleep deprivation.

Throughout the world and for decades, such practices have been called torture. That's what the United States called them when they were used by the Soviet KGB. As the president himself tacitly acknowledges, they violate Geneva and other international conventions as well as current U.S. law. News that the United States has used these techniques -- as well as waterboarding, an ancient torture technique that simulates drowning -- has gravely damaged U.S. standing in the world and the fight against terrorism. It increases the danger that captured U.S. servicemen will be exposed to similar treatment by nations that might otherwise feel obliged to respect the Geneva standards....Rather than admit that he wants to legalize disappearances and torture, Mr. Bush ominously warns that "the program" won't continue unless Congress passes his bill. He says "time's running out," even though it's not. There are no detainees in the CIA prisons at the moment, according to the president, and the only clock running out is that measuring the midterm election campaign....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/16/AR2006091600587.html?nav=most_emailed

[Bluebear]

1. "But Saddam gassed his own people!"

Who knows what *we're* doing to them now.

[Fovea]

7. I know what we are doing to them

we are melting them with willy pete, and inciting them to civil war.

[liberaldemocrat7]

14. SLOBOGEORGE MILOSEBUSH. AUGUSTOGEORGE PINOCHEBUSH.

FERNANDOGEORGE MARCOSEBUSH

ADOLPHOGEORGE HITLEROBUSH

[az chela]

2. The time is running out !!!!!

For bush and the criminals that work for him!!!Wake up america this atministration must be stopped.First impeachment and then prison

[peacebird]

3. Call Congress Monday - PLEASE - tell them America is better than this

tell them AMERICA does not torture - AMERICA does not look for ways to justify or excuse torture. AMERICA is better than that.
If they pass this abomination then America is lost forever.

We lost the moral high ground with Abu Ghraib and Fallujah... If we codify these abuses then we are no longer a "civilised" nation

We will have become the enemy.

[madrchsod]

4. he can only disregard the convention

he or the congress can not change or reinterpret the article three of the convention and it is as simple as that. i can not believe someone has not called him on this

[Kagemusha]

5. I wish I didn't have to use this old cliche but I must.

With what army?

[Straight Shooter]

6. The mere fact that subject is even being discussed is abhorrent.

It should not be considered, it should not be debated, it should never have risen to the level of a bellicose defense by an idiot son at a White House press conference.

AFAIC, we have already lost the moral high ground completely, simply by not rising up as a nation in outrage that we would torture -- and it doesn't matter what the crime is -- that we would TORTURE people!

Wasn't Jesus tortured? Will bush add lashings and bearing heavy weights to his list of acceptable treatment? How about "pretending" someone is about to have a spike driven through their wrist or feet? Oh, hell, just go all the way and pound that spike in. In for a penny, in for a pound.

Torture is obscene and morally reprehensible to anyone with even one iota of a Christian conscience.

[ninkasi]

12. I'm with you on that, Straight Shooter

It is beyond anything I could have ever imagined that this debate would even be discussed, much less championed, by a president of the United States. A Anointed States who tortures, holds without charges, without access to lawyers, is held secretly, and who is not permitted to see the evidence against him, all on the president's say-so, is absolutely vile and extremely dangerous.

In what way is Bush better than Saddam, or any other third world dictator? What makes him think that he, and he alone has the wisdom to make such life and death decisions? This has got to be stopped, right now, and with no misunderstanding of following the Geneva Conventions, or trying to wiggle out of having them applied to us.

[Bumblebee]

8. It says a lot when it's too much even for the WP editorial board who just

last week demanded we all apologize to Karl Rove!

[struggle4progress]

9. Frankly, the *-ist program sounds like "Nacht und Nebel"

[spanone]

10. Kick & R

It scares the shit out of me that an American newspaper even has to think of writing this. We are in deep trouble here.

[Supersedeas]

11. Texas Pubbies, the Supreme Court and OH Pubbies ought to feel proud

[rpannier]

13. Nothing like taking a page out of the book of ruthless dictators

As they say on The Stephanie Miller Show,

"Thank You, President Bush."

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[StraightDope]

16. Enjoy your stay, asshole!

[NNN0LHI]

17. The problem is anyone can waterboard you into saying anything

ANYTHIING! Don't you understand that? That is how we ended up with a death row here in Illinois with more innocent people than guilty ones.

And the people who committed the actual crimes were still out killing. They still are.

A CIA "contractor" could have you swearing you were Osama bin Laden and giving written admissions of guilt for 9/11 in a jiffy. What would that prove?

Don

[jdadd]

18. WOW !!

I finally get to read a post before it gets tombstoned....
BUH-BYE...:eyes:

[12string]

19. torture

Where do you fucking assholes come from?I can not believe the
depths that our society has reached.The only solace I can find
is my belief that the one involatile constant in this world is
that you can't escape your karma.I surely would not want
yours.These are very trying times.You Bush lovers have me
speechless.All I can do is scream,FUCK YOU!!!!I apologise to
any I have offended by sinking to this level of speech,but
there is apparently no use trying to reason with these
murdering thug whackjobs.ARRRGGGHHH!!!

[Raksha]

20. Enjoy your stay!

I didn't need to read the entire note to know you are DEFINITELY on the wrong board! All I needed to read was the first line. We're civilized people here, so GET LOST!!! You know, "Why don't you make like a tree, and get oudda here!"

[Disturbed]

23. Busholini approved of this.

He also did not fire Rumsfailed after that War Criminal admitted to Violating the Geneva Conventions numerous times.

Rumsfeld Shouldn't be Fired, He Should be Indicted
by Matthew Rothschild

“Secretary Rumsfeld has publicly admitted that . . . he ordered an Iraqi national held in Camp Cropper, a high security detention center in Iraq, to be kept off the prison’s rolls and not presented to the International Committee of the Red Cross,” the report noted. The Geneva Conventions require countries to grant the Red Cross access to all detainees. “

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0418-24.htm


Further Evidence Rumsfeld Implicated in War Crimes

Here's a key section, but there's more:
The Army's charges against Jordan reflect the view, undoubtedly correct, that the use of forced nudity or intimidation with dogs against detainees subject to military control constitutes cruelty and maltreatment that Article 93 makes criminal. It doesn't matter whether they are or are not "torture," as such; nor does it matter whether the armed forces should be permitted to use such interrogation techniques: As things currently stand, they are unlawful, as even the Army now acknowledges.

But then how can we account for the actions of the Secretary of Defense and his close aides?

On November 27, 2002, Pentagon General Counsel William Haynes, following discussions with Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz, General Myers, and Doug Feith, informed the Secretary of Defense that forced nudity and the use of the fear of dogs to induce stress were lawful techniques, and he recommended that they be approved for use at Guantanamo. (The lists of techniques to which Haynes was referring can be found in this memorandum.) On December 2, 2002, Secretary Rumsfeld approved those techniques for use at Guantanamo -- and subsequently those techniques were used on detainee Mohammed al-Qahtani.

In other words, the Secretary of Defense authorized criminal conduct.

...

Today's Army charge under UCMJ Article 93 against Lt. Col. Jordan -- for conduct that the SecDef actually authorized as to some detainees -- demonstrates that Rumsfeld approved of, and encouraged, violations of the criminal law.

http://www.discourse.net/archives/2006/04/further_evidence_rumsfeld_implicated_in_war_crimes.htm

[civildisoBDence]

40. Images like that sure make me proud to be an American

who prays for impeachment, conviction, and imprisonment for all responsible.

Newsprism

[Warren DeMontague]

22. "being nice to terrorists"

You mean, like this?



***

You mean, like this?

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=103

***

You mean, like this?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/03/terror/main620825.shtml

***

...anyway, Jerkoff, if we destroy every moral principle that this nation stands for to "beat" these guys--- what the fuck have we won?

Your odds of drowning in the bathtub are higher than being killed by international terrorism. Is that really worth trashing our Constitution and our Democracy over?

[me b zola]

25. Define this: "The destruction of our way of life"

That, afterall, is what your president and his criminal administration keeps telling us we should fear.

Seriously, define The destruction of our way of life.

[Webster Green]

26. How do you know they are terrorists without trials, you fucking moran!

Jeezus Fucking Christ!, How back into the fucking dark ages do you want to go?

Some of these poor folks were sold to the fucking C.I.fucking A, by the local fucking warlord, don't 'cha know?

This has nothing to do with terrorism, and everything to do with a psychotic dimwit in the white House.

[intaglio]

28. Could I suggest you do a little research

before you come out with your mindless suggestions. Or possibly think that your nation is becoming what it pretends to despise.

If you cannot hold those ideas inside your head better go back to playing the banjo, Cletus

[annabanana]

29. consider this:

The human capacity for evil is limitless. Our imagination is infinite. That's why the definition MUST be fluid. If it is defined it can be circumvented..

We either torture, or we do not torture..

To define limitations is to erase all limits.

[LibertyorDeath]

30. Your depth of understanding of this issue is just this side of retarded.

and your post is pure shit.

[malaise]

31. Ah Hush

Torture is torture. You're either for it or against it. Go read the Geneva Conventions.
headline

[ZaiusNation]

21. Constitutional Rights: It's not like you were using them anyway

[newyawker99]

38. Hi ZaiusNation!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Yukari Yakumo]

24. Oh dear Messanic Leader...

Whatever happened to "do unto others as they would do unto you"?

No, it does not mean if they resort to barbarism that we should do the same. It means that we should lead by example. But, I guess those lessons in humanity has long since been lost.

[Roxy66]

27. Scary Shit!!

[whistle]

32. Bush does not seem to be the least bit embarrassed by that fact

...and many of the republicans in congress back him on this issue. This is a no brain-er, let's just dump them, or in 9-11 WTC demolition jargon, "pull'em".

[Liberal Dose]

33. Only a matter of time now until the Grand Poobah suspends elections.

Because that's what dictators do. :scared:

[indepat]

34. Those who support the man and his dream should offer up their progeny

for the front lines of a perpetual war.

[Tigermoose]

35. How can we not impeach this morally repugnant nutjob?

I will lose all faith in the American political system if this whackjob is not impeached.

[KittyWampus]

36. We are now a Banana Republic

[rrasile]

37. Prisons

So how many prisons have we built in Iraq. Is this why we haven't given those poor bastards water and sewage yet. How many army bases have we built, that never gets mentioned does it.
Schools and hospitals, have we forgotten. I know the elected carper baggers hide in the green zone and hold their breaths when they have to leave the safe area we provide for them.

[personman]

39. Makes me think of Chomsky's latest book.

Failed States: The Abuse of Power and the Assault on Democracy

"Professor Chomsky thinks that the United States is beginning to resemble a failed state that cannot protect its citizens from violence and has a government that regards itself as beyond the reach of domestic or international law."

Here's an interview he did on Democracy Now! about it:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12585.htm

Have yet to read the book, but it sounds interesting.