CNBC "Make Money Guys" saying Ethanol Dead...Oil & Gas will go way Down

[KoKo]

so the Ethanol Bounce was just a pipe dream when everyone was worked up over Oil and Natural Gas prices. There were four of them...and one was pushing Nuclear.

But...BREAKING...CNBC says the Oil & Natural Gas Crises is OVER! Said SELL ETHANOL! Get OUT!

And BUSH WINS....see here for what he told Fred Barnes about how he will win in November...(or his Repugs will win, that is)WE DEMS AND AMERICANS WERE "GAMED AGAIN" by Wall Street and the Bushies. But, folks "in the know" made TONS of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$'s on this.

I guess one shouldn't believe anything they read or hear these days.


---------------------

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2162360&mesg_id=2162360

Inside the Oval Office
President Bush gives journalists a "heads up" about the mid-term elections, among other things.
by Fred Barnes
09/13/2006 1:54:00 PM

-SNIP-
In the midterm election on November 7, Bush predicted Democrats won't win either the House or the Senate. "I believe these elections will come down to two things: one, firm belief that in order to win the war on terror there must be a comprehensive strategy that recognizes this war is being fought on more than one front, and, two, the economy." Bush said the price of gasoline, which has been falling rapidly, is one of the "interesting indicators" that the press should watch carefully. "Just giving you a heads up," he added.

more of Bush's "private meeting" with Barnes and other Conservatives here......
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/696wnfcp.asp?pg=1

[Raster]

1. The price of oil is going down conveniently to coincide with the election

cycle. The outrageous price of gas was over-inflated to allow the robber baron oil companies to fleece us just a tad more before they had to lower their prices to aid the rethuglicans in the election cycle.

[focusfan]

6. It will go up after election

[CoffeeCat]

11. That's exactly what is going on...

...you nailed it.

I also predict, that after the 06 election, the price of gasoline will skyrocket
to unprecedented levels--and BushCo will pin the blame on Iran. They will use
the outrage to fuel public support for war against Iran.

...Just giving you a head's up... ;)

[Fridays Child]

12. And here's the proof...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2831226

[KoKo]

17. Thanks...there it is from a DU'er in their OWN STATE...GAS DOWN...

all of a sudden there's this big drop...and conveniently after the Summer Vacation Driving which gave Max Boost to Profits of Oil Executives ...now allowing the Bushofascists to pressure them to lowe the Gas at the Pump and Home Heating Gas and Oil.

Clever aren't they. If Dems had an ARMY of THINK TANKS and Coporatists on their side...wouldn't life be grand. :shrug:

[KoKo]

2. Well...it gives a boost to the GM/Ford Merger ...now that their Pensions

and Health Care for their workers has been ditched by the supposed "green" move to the "Hybrids" they can now breathe easy knowing the SUV/TRUCK's will move off the lots just in time for '04 Elections.

Maybe Hummers will be back in style. If you have one ...don't sell it...Gas will go down to a Buck Fifty or less per gallon soon.

Arentcha glad to hear that "hanging in there" was worth it? *(this message is not ment for DU'ers who are "responsible car buyers" but for anyone "lurking" from other sites.

[teriyaki jones]

3. K&R - n/t

[louis-t]

4. Ahhh, the "economy is strong' argument

except for the Real Estate bubble in CA, FL, AZ, MI, and the rising jobless rate in numerous states.
So, bushie is giving us a 'heads up'? First, his 'head' is 'up' his ass as usual, and I don't care how many times it is claimed that oil prices are strictly driven by speculation, you mean to tell me that prices can drop 30% in two weeks because speculators have gotten out of the market and with no pressure from the bozo oil man in the WH the oil crises is over? I PROMISE you that after the election oil prices will soar.

[Totally Committed]

5. Pardon my "French", but....

What a steaming load of horse-sh*t!

I guess those "crises" were created artificially, so Bush could look like a hero come election time.

That's not an "intersting indicator"... That's conspiracy. And... surprise, surprise, the Oil ad Natural Gas Companies were complicit. Knock me over with a feather. :sarcasm:

TC

[htuttle]

7. Are those the 'Dow 25,000' guys?

Yeah, sure -- I'd trust my money to their advice.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Not.

[KoKo]

8. It was a NEW CREW and a NEW SHOW....competing with Matthews

Bunch of Hot Shots...but remember "HOT SHOTS" RULE ..these days. Carnival Barkers RULE. They got the word from the Bushies. Larry Kudlow will follow their show. :eyes: Just so you know where CNBC/MSNBC/NBC stand on the Mid-Term Elections. GE want's to make it plain enough that as a 'Murkin you hear it. :-(

[indepat]

9. I hope m(y) f(riend) Kuddlylow was not one of the ones

[KoKo]

10. His show follows their show...and I didn't have the stomach to turn it on

after "gacking." I'm sure he will follow with his usual RANT..."Isn't CAPITALISM GREAT...ISN'T THIS ECONOMY GREAT!" He starts off all his shows with that one. :wow:

[indepat]

25. And incredible how the tax cuts are working: the most disingenuous

economic talking-head ever save maybe a former fed chairman.

[Junkdrawer]

13. Al Gore today accused Big Oil of price manipulation...

and that "certain oil producing nations" (read Saudi Arabia) use price manipulation to kill alternate energy...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2162043&mesg_id=2162613

The speech is archived here:

http://www.law.nyu.edu/newscalendars/2006_2007/gore/index.html

[KoKo]

15. Then the CNBC CRAP was designed to undermine Gore's speech which

always happens with Gore Speeches. "THEY (the Bushofascists) find a way to dog him and undermine whatever he says...just because they have SUCH A GREAT FEAR OF HIM! He CONFRONTED THEM..and stalled an election for MONTHS because of PRINCIPLE. Folks like Gore (the few left) will always be the TARGET of the Bushfascists...just because he exists, had and election STOLEN FROM HIM and has TROOPS that STILL Support Him!

[Junkdrawer]

18. I just started a thread with the transcript:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2165064

[Joe for Clark]

14. I have to watch crud like this for a living -

and frankly, dad ran a oil company - and bs is bs -

Watch CNBC closely - they'll quote traders - and they quote Pickens - and that guy is unwavering.

And I know this for a fact - Mr. Pickens is a force to be reckoned with -

He was just a little prick in the 80's - so I heard - well, that little "prick" took out one of the seven sisters, he is something - never wrong.

Bet against him at your peril. I never will. I watched him screw Gulf Oil into the ground - over an obscure deal that never should have happened.

If B*sh thinks this is about him, he has a serious ego problem - its not, its about how much they could make under certain scenarios, thats all. When the wind blows the other way, he is history. And it is blowing hard right now.

Joe

[KoKo]

16. So...where does Pickens stand on Ethanol...?

I couldn't understand from your post whether "trashing Ethanol" was a plot by Pickens or the Bushofascists....

Thanks if you can clarify. :-)'s

[Joe for Clark]

21. I'd like to try.

The bulk of his play is in extracted oil. He has about 10 billion dollars in a straight up oil play - he hedged, though. He has farirly substantial investments in synthetics - I think he has about 100 million in Canadian oil sands - I don't know what else. Those oil sands are "dirty" fuel.

I am NOT an oil person, I do not like the business at all. I think it is a terrible business.

Ethanol is really unrealistic. Not going to work - It cannot produce the volume necessary for us and consumes food sources. Really.

I know something else - I KNOW we do have the resources needed, it is in the oil shale we have naturally. It is relatively clean - we could use it for the twenty years or so we will need to transition to hydrogen, which I believe we will have to look to in the future.

Man, my problem with ethanol is much more that the fact that it will use up resources that are needed for food - I know it cannot possibly supply our fuel needs.

Carter formed (and Reagan closed) the US Synthetic Fuels Corporation - you should look at this.

Joe

[KoKo]

23. Problem with Ethanol is it's Corn Based and needs Transport because

"moisture builds up" in the lines if it's transported over long distances. It's been a HOPE the politicians both Left and Right have been pushing for years to help the MidWest Economy...but the Transportation Problems dog them.

Some forward thinking "Greens" feel that those who can grow their own Ethanol could use it Locally to support their economy. Taking Ethanol out of the real of Mega Transport into Local Usage with small distance transport. If Ethanol is feasable then the "local use" would still make it viable. But, a combination of Wind, Solar and Ethanol might make most of our American Cities much less dependent on ME and other sources of Oil and Natural Gas if we could focus on this problem REGIONALLY!

At least that's what I've learned from what I've read. Rural Communities without huge demand could do what the Amish in PA do..and use Wind Power or Wind and Solar and be fine because they don't have high demand like the cities and a smaller structure of local government.

I'm thinking about what we need to do to SURVIVE and not what CNBC viewers are thinking about as INVESTMENT when I talk about this...btw. With the Bushfascists in power I want to try to be as energy efficient as I can on my OWN but I live in a big city...so know that our CITY NEEDS will be important, too...even though my own house might run on Solar it might need
assistance from time to time with power.

[Joe for Clark]

27. It is NOT just a transportation problem.

Koko, your car doesn't run on solar, right??

Investment demand generally parallels the needs of society. It is true.

It is impossible for us as a society to plant enough corn to run our cars. It is.

And that corn could feed so many.

It is difficult for me to reconcille this -

I wish I could speak more eloquently on this -

Joe

[KoKo]

28. I got what you said...that growing huge corn for Gas would take away

from what we need to feed ourselves. ...I'm just going by what I've read about the difficulties of mass production of corn getting transported from MidWest to the big cities on East and West Coast.

Any way one looks at it...the dream of ETHANOL as solving all problems with a little Nuke thrown in...just isn't going to work. But, it doesn't mean that some places in the MidWest coudn't use extra corn production to fuel a few cities or lots of cars ...if they don't ship it they don't need to produce huge excess amounts and that other alternitives might be REGIONAL OPTIONS as to how they could go.

that's what I was trying to say. :shrug:

[Joe for Clark]

29. Damn, I do NOT disagree with the sentiment -

I understand what you are trying to say.

I have something of a problem with people trying to sell ethanol as a fuel. I want the US to produce as much food stuffs as possible - but we do not have to turn it into "fuel".

There are so much more important uses. And we have better alternatives.

Joe

[KoKo]

32. I still like "Methane" from all the huge City Garbage Dumps...

and apparently there's some technology there that could do it. Also the waste from the AgriBusiness. :shrug:

[Joe for Clark]

34. Koko, I am trying to tell you, it just ain't there man.

I want it to be there - but the reality trumps it.

Joe

[KoKo]

35. So...what do you propose? Nuclear? or stay with total Oil and Gas?

:shrug:

[hatrack]

19. Meanwhile - "BP says no Thunder Horse production until mid-2008"

LONDON, Sept 18 (Reuters) - Oil giant BP Plc (BP.L: Quote, Profile, Research) said on Monday it does not expect production from its Thunder Horse field in the Gulf of Mexico to begin before the middle of 2008 due to new technical glitches.

BP had originally scheduled startup for the end of 2005 and this latest slippage will make it harder for BP to hit production growth targets in the coming years.

The delay will also call BP's skills at overseeing complex projects into question at a time when its management of Alaskan oil fields and pipelines is the subject of intense scrutiny.

BP said in a statement that tests carried out over the past four months revealed metallurgical failure in components of the subsea system and it now "plans to retrieve and rebuild all the sea-bed production equipment" from Thunder Horse. BP also said "it was too early to estimate the additional costs involved in replacing the affected systems".

EDIT

http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=CN&storyID=2006-09-18T153831Z_01_L18839907_RTRIDST_0_ENERGY-BP-THUNDERHORSE-UPDATE-1.XML&rpc=66&type=qcna

But then, I guess THIS particular story didn't get shouted about much in the program you describe.

Bottom line - in 2004, the world used about 30 billion barrels of oil and discovered about 8 billion barrels. In 2005, we used about 31 bbl, and discovered about 5 bbl.

And the Chevron find they were shouting to the heavens recently? One test well (Jack #2) flowing at 6,000 barrels/day doesn't make it fucking Prudhoe Bay. And if Chevron's huge find is such a big deal, then why aren't they drilling a second test well until mid-2007? Oh, yeah, almost forgot, all the rigs are being rented/bought by the Saudis or majors, and are elsewhere - i.e. NOT in the Gulf of Mexico.

The happy, happy numbers they so loudly squealed - between 3 and 15 billion barrels? Again, out and out deception. Those figures are for the entire Lower Tertiary formation in the Gulf of Mexico deepwater.

Whoever these clowns are, they don't know shit.

[KoKo]

20. Thanks....and is "Thunderhorse" the New Gulf Discovery touted by

Bushofascists that says it's the biggest find since Saudi's or something? They gave it to BP to Explore?

I didn't catch up on the reading of what was going on after the DISCOVERY IN GULF was the LEAD STORY...

Is it the same one?

[hatrack]

22. No, that was Chevron's Jack #2 test well, referred to above

Thunder Horse was the LAST "supergiant" Gulf of Mexico discovery that was going to save our ass. Or at least that was the story until Katrina and Rita hit town.

:eyes:

[KoKo]

24. Thanks...it's hard to keep up with it...

and I wonder if the "latest isn't an overhyped thing...or a hoax."

[Ikonoklast]

26. I am buying futures

When all those in the 'know' scream "SELL, SELL, SELL!!!" and try to stampede the little guy, bet the farm that *they* are buying the dip. As soon as the elections are over, energy prices will rise.

Ethanol is here to stay, at least for the short term as a replacement for the oxidizing agent MTBE in gasoline. We are currently importing ethanol from Brazil to meet current demand.

Also buying soybeans for '07 delivery. Biodiesel plants that are either in production now or are slated to be producing in '07 will need a steady source of oilseed feedstock. One plant in Indiana slated to go online next year will use almost one-half the soybeans exported by that state (last years' numbers).

The clean air benefits alone will wake up the states that don't already have legislation pending to make at least B-5 (5% biodiesel blended with petrol diesel) mandatory. It narrowly missed being mandated by the legislature in California, and the bill is to be re-introduced in the next session.

[Joe for Clark]

30. Control what dip??

You think 64 a barrell is the true bottom.

You know what catching the falling knife means??

You better be real careful here.

Joe

[Ikonoklast]

31. No, not this soon

I hear what you're saying. I don't think we've seen the bottom yet, as far as crude goes.

I've caught a few sharp knives in my time, that's for certain.
Contrarian to the core.




:hi:

[Joe for Clark]

33. Good -

I think we all have caught a falling knife at some point, so have I.

I just want to see the goper's catch this knife.

They will. They may be good little robots - but that is all they ever will be.

Joe