Everyone should pay taxes.. No entity should be exempt..

[SoCalDem]

Non-profits (churches, NGOs etc) have been tax-exempt for too long..

Taxes are paid on PROFIT...why are they worried? Churches should pay taxes IF THEY ARE MAKING A PROFIT..

As our tax base erodes, this tax-free status stuff has to end.

Any entity that takes in money, should be made to show that they spent that money to benefit society, and of course for overhead and salaries...but any extra" SHOULD be taxed..

Too many "preachers" have gotten way too rich and influential for their "ministries" to have been totally altruistic.

Time to pay the piper..

If they have "extra" money, they should be using it for charitable operations..not to build TV studios and mansions for their "prophets"...

[Journeyman]

1. If they pay taxes, they have a right to representation . . .

is that what you desire, to remove all pretense to a barrier between church and state?

[SoCalDem]

4. they do have representation.. OVER-representation

Churches these days are businesses.. the day of the poor, local pastor are long gone..

They haven;t existed for decades.. Church is a big business..

Vouchers are nothing more than a transfer of TAX money into church schools, and lots of folks think that's ok..

I'd rather have it all right out there in the open, with everyone paying their fair share.. I'm not saying they can't make money or say their piece.. Just do it in the sunlight..and on par with the rest of us.:)

[Journeyman]

16. So we should get rid of that bothersome church/state separation idea. . .

and give them free reign to do as they wish, what with all that money behind them and politicians freed from any restraints of "propriety." Under your plan, vouchers would be the norm and public schools would wither, the power of the Church would grow and that of the people recede.

Kind of a myopic, ill-considered view, but then, can't expect everyone to aspire to Jeffersonian heights.

Why don't you put as much effort into reinforcing the walls of separation as you presently put into giving churches free reign? Under your plan, there'd just be more money in the kitty for churches to lay claim to. Or is that what you want? :-)

[focusfan]

7. They got more representation than we do

[Journeyman]

22. So you'd have no issue with giving Establishmentarians free reign. . .

to again impose their vision of a State Religion on everyone?

You do realize that at one time citizens of the Colonies paid tribute in the form of taxes to each state-sponsored church, that this was the basis -- in some measure -- for Thomas Jefferson's Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom, and that given a legal foothold some of these churches will stop at nothing to re-impose themselves upon a citizenry ill-disposed to effectively counter their plots?

Before advocating removal of the thin barrier we have between ourselves and ecclesiastical control, you'd do better to abandon DU and instead read the works of Jefferson, Paine, and a host of others who have a far better appreciation of the pitfalls of religious intrusion on secular law.

[Dr.Phool]

8. They use services, such as police, fire, roads, etc.

Tax them.

[Poppyseedman]

10. The people who attend churches use police, fire, roads

they are already taxed.

Basically, taxing churches will be a tax on the people who give.

[Initech]

2. I completely agree, with one minor adjustment:

If a church owns property outside the church grounds with the intent of making a profit (like the 10,000 - 50,000 seat megachurches), they should be considered a business and not a religious organization, therefore they should have to pay taxes.

[Xithras]

3. I waver on property taxes.

I have no problem taxing church profits (in theory, churches shouldn't BE making profits), but I waver on property taxes. How do you tax the 50,000 seat megachurch without taxing the tiny little churches that barely scrape by with 15-20 members? Taxing the little churches will shut many of them down, an act that simply shoves more churchgoers into the evangelistic megachurches we all despise. The megachurches can afford the taxes, the little ones can't.

[Initech]

18. That's the part that could get really tricky...

And I think that's the reason why anybody hasnt figured out how to tax these churches. If someone were to come up with a way that would be able to easily distinguish the difference between the two, then it would make things a lot easier.

[happyslug]

17. Such property is TAXED now in most states today and always has been.

For a piece of property NOT to be taxable it must be owned by a non-profit and used for a non-profit purpose. If the non-profit starts a for-profit business on the property it becomes taxable. Thus Churches and Church halls are Non-taxable property, but if any property is used as a business on a day to day basis (as opposed to a church fair etc) that part must pay taxes.

Now, the above is for property taxes as opposed to income taxes. Income of Religious people is TAXABLE INCOME, thus any church (or other non-profit) must keep the donations separate from whatever Salary or income they provide the pastor (Or whoever is leading the non-profit). This is a constant headache in my part of Pennsylvania as more and more traditional Churches go into things like old folks homes and other income producing businesses that mesh with the Church's mission. When do these activities cease being a Charity and becomes a Business? What part of the Church Property is being use to run the Business? Most times these are resolved between the taxing authority and the Church without going to Court, but once in a while it ends up in Court (And both sides tend to lose for the Court then tends to look at the division in its own opinion).

[Poppyseedman]

5. Huh..........Churches don't make profits.

Profits are the results of the money not spent to cover costs, and goods. Almost all churches actual operate on very thin revenue flows. Most are actual broke.

You obviously have no idea how churches operate. Most have very strident over site via the body of believers or an organization they report to

Every church I have belonged to have open books and a congregational votes on budget which includes EVERYTHING money can be spent on.

[SoCalDem]

6. "Those" churches should not have a problem, then

:)

[Poppyseedman]

9. So you think the government should decide on which churches

gets taxed and which ones don't???

So much for separation of church and state.

BTW, "Those" churches make up probably 95% of all churches.

[SoCalDem]

13. P R O F I T is taxed.. If they have no profit, they have no problem

:hi:

[IntravenousDemilo]

11. How about first some legislation whereby corporations are no longer

considered legal "persons" with constitutional rights? If the boards of major companies were no longer able to hide from the law behind their corporate structures, and were it easier to hold individual members financially liable for environmental and other crimes, we'd have a lot more honesty in business. As it is, the honour system doesn't work. It needs both positive and negative reinforcement from government.

[TahitiNut]

14. Just outlaw corporate 'ownership' of corporations.

If they're legal 'persons' then they cannot own other persons and cannot be owned. If they're property, they can't 'own' property any more than your dog can 'own' your house or have a bank account.

Outlaw corporate ownership of corporations - require every corporation's stock to be in the name of an individual ... an adult with a U.S. social security number.

Next, charge a (national) sales tax on the sale or exchange of corporate stock.

These two measures are far too long in coming.

[IntravenousDemilo]

23. And if they're "persons" then they can't own other "persons" either.

So they're violating the 13 Amendment!

I support the other measures as well. We also have to bring back anti-trust and anti-usury laws, even if they seem to have gone out of fashion.

[TahitiNut]

12. Income taxes are paid on profits. Don't forget property taxes.

:shrug:

[vicman]

15. I like Al's take on taxes

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/18/gore-speech/

[ryanus]

19. But if every individual did, then no org would have to

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

20. I agree

but think we should turn our focus to corporate America. There are corporations located off shore, avoiding taxes, many others play the system so well they never pay a thing. It's obscene. If corporate America paid their fair share the churches wouldn't even show up on the rader.

edated fer speling :)

[B Calm]

21. I feel veterans should be exempt! It would be a great tool to enlist

tax-angst republicans into the military.

[IntravenousDemilo]

24. Yes, one would have to be a great tool to enlist nowadays.

Oh, sorry, I was just looking at your subject line. :)

[SoCalDem]

25. And everyyear of military service should be matched

with a year of FREE college (at a state school) completely free..books, tuition..labs etc..

if someone wanted to go to a private school, the amount it would take for a state school could be applied there..

That's how "service' should be rewarded..not with an artificial limb, a medal, and a kick in the pants on the way out the door ..