Would you pay $97 to vote?

[tpsbmam]

http://www.commonblog.com/story/2006/9/18/15137/4369

Would you pay $97 to vote?

<snips>

On Wednesday, the U.S. House will vote on HR 4844, the Ehlers/Hyde bill, which requires all voters to show a photo ID that must also include proof of citizenship.

Ok, pull out your driver's license. Does it say, "This ID certifies that the holder is a U.S. citizen"? Unlikely. Based on preliminary research, we think that there are only three states--Alabama, Arizona, and Wyoming--that offer citizenship-verified drivers' licenses.

If you're not from one of those states, you'll need a passport in order to vote. That'll cost you $97 and six weeks of waiting, unless you want to pay more to expedite the process.

Of course, if the 75 percent of eligible voters who don't currently have a passport decide that they do indeed want to vote, the waiting time could increase significantly. Six weeks could become six months.

Does this make sense? Of course not. That's why we're urging all Common Cause members and friends to call their congressional representatives and ask them to vote against HR 4844. To find your House representative, go to http://wwwcommoncause.org/FindElectedOfficials.

1. It's a blatantly partisan attempt to limit the ability of some groups of voters to cast a ballot. No rigging of the rules allowed!
2. It places a burden on certain groups of voters--elderly, minority, poor, rural, and urban--and that's unfair.

3. Forcing voters to buy a passport at $97 is a de facto poll tax.

Please call today and ask your representative to vote against HR 4844.

[Lautremont]

1. I'd heard that very few Americans had passports, and always wondered why.

Now I know. $97 is a lot of money! It's clearly an attempt to disenfranchise lower-income voters.

[Joanne98]

8. Only 11% of Americans hold passports!

Because the GREEDY Republicans have made everyone to poor to leave the country!

[sweetheart]

18. They don't want the majority abroad

or the people outside of america would catch on to how much it
has become a prison... and keep a much healthier distance from a
torture-prison state that does state murder as the largest
murder machine on earth, bar none, getting bigger every year
on the backs of its prisoners.

THe passport scam is way to expensive. Its cost me a fortune
over the years to get passports, travelling to consolates for
in-person swearing (not that kind ;-)), photograph costs, notary
costs, filing costs, postage costs, its already a bleedin' poll tax,
just most people don't know, as like you say so few have passports,
and they're worth keeping if you every plan to leave the prison.

They'll tell children in future, the fairytale of the big prison wall
that is 10,000 feet tall around all of the united states, that the
country built a wall so high and thick that nothing could penetrate it,
and all the rulers buried themselves miles under the earth and blocked
their ears in solitary, and how this fairytale kingdom on a hill, this
glistening tower of idiocy came to be, and how, no wealth is worth
the loss of liberty.

[MindPilot]

2. Does that $97 include a "your vote will be counted" guarantee?

Didn't think so...

[ClassWarrior]

3. It's a good ol' fashun Jim Crow style poll tax!!

Ahhh, the good old days of being a corrupt Rape-publican.

:sarcasm:

NGU.

[Swede Atlanta]

4. Unconstitutional

I live in Georgia and the attempt by the Repukkke General Assembly to require a state-issued ID to vote has been successfully challenged time after time. Currently the revised law, after the first one was struck down, is under review again for the upcoming general elections after having been prevented from enforcement for the primary, primary runoff and and special elections this year.

What I find especially humorous is that the same level of scrutiny isn't applied to absentee ballots. So even though I have a valid state-issued ID, I will be voting absentee this year. When the repukkkes state they are trying to prevent fraud, they always leave open the absentee ballots.

There is no way this federal law would pass constitutional muster. It would violate the Voting Rights Act of 1964 and likely face challenge after challenge. But I agree we need to resist this. These people will not stop.

[aquart]

5. The poll tax is back!

[sweetheart]

6. Margaret Thatcher is GOD!!!

Long live the poll tax, even the republicans worship at maggies skirt.

[LeftishBrit]

9. The poll tax was her downfall in the end!

And no doubt memories of it contributed to Michael Howard's massive defeat.

Maybe it can do the same for the Republicans!

[sweetheart]

13. Yes, they need to increase the tax

A poll tax is the ultimate good idea for karl rove, ***ROVE*** <<<--- copy this idea!!!
** poll tax increase == good idea ** << ROVE read this!!

We need to help those republicans with the digging. :-)

[cigsandcoffee]

7. Isn't a birth certificate proof of citizenship?

I'm not really against photo IDs for voting. A failure to require that can be exploited in either direction.

[tpsbmam]

10. To a degree....

Birth certificates would count. BUT....

Most people don't know that it has to be an original STATE issued birth certificate -- birth certificates from hospitals aren't "official records" and don't count. AND if you're a U.S. citizen born outside of the U.S., you're not likely to have that. In that case, you have to have a passport, certificate from a U.S. consulate registering your birth, or a certificate of citizenship. And it still often costs money to get all of that stuff if you don't have an original in your little hot hands.

And many people have lost that info -- what about people who lost everything in Katrina, for example? I'm not sure about this -- how the hell do they even get a copy of their birth certificate? You usually need proof of i.d. to do that -- what if they have none?

We already have half of America not voting. These people are out to assure that it stays that low....or lower.

[Kindigger]

11. BC + DL

would be okay if the last names match. When I flew to Mexico Dec. 2001, I needed BC + copy of my divorce papers to show why they didn't match.

[Pab Sungenis]

12. They want a SINGLE PHOTO ID that includes citizenship.

Obviously, a birth cert can't be current photo ID.

[tpsbmam]

14. One day I'm going to learn how to read.....

Thanks! Yup, you're absolutely right.

[eggbeater]

15. A state ID

requires a birth cirtificate to be issued. It would take very little to add citizenship to that card when it was issued.

I doubt that anywhere in the actuall bill there is any words written that suggest the absolute need for a passport to vote.

anyone over the age of 18 should have some form of Id with them anyway. either I drivers license or a state Id. Both need the birth cirtificate to be issued, and both could without any further expense include citizenship.

this is being blow out of proportion.

something has to be done to keep the non citizens from being able to vote.

[tpsbmam]

17. Actually....

I've moved a number of times and all I've needed is my license from my old state. Since my license was first issued when I was 17, which was (ugh!) 33 years ago, I haven't been asked for my birth certificate for 33 years. We moved to NC just about a year ago -- all I had to do was give them my NY license.

[eggbeater]

19. see how easy it is?

in your case it seems as if each state accepted the fact that the previous state had alread verified this information.

and yes, the license can be imitated, but with advanced technology, it can be made in such a way that it can be authenticated

[Swede Atlanta]

21. Your premise is mistaken

I don't want non-citizens to vote either. The problem is multi-dimensional:

(1) States determine eligibility to vote for Congressional and Senatorial representatives from each state. This bill would take that determination partially away from the states in contradiction to the mantra of 'states' rights '

(2) Possession of an ID doesn't necessarily eliminate fraud or decrease the likelihood of unauthorized voters. Persons bent on engaging in fraud can easily get fake identification cards issued

(3) The requirement amounts to a poll tax and further depresses voter participation. We live in a country with one of the lowest voter turn-out rates in the developed world. The requirement will mean even less poor and unsophisticated voters will turn out.

[eggbeater]

33. Well thought out, allow me to play the devils advocate.

(1) States determine eligibility to vote for Congressional and Senatorial representatives from each state. This bill would take that determination partially away from the states in contradiction to the mantra of 'states' rights '

I can see for local elections how the need to keep states voice in the matter might be good, but for the national elections I think that the federal government should be the ones to dictate the rules. Think about a solid conservative state and the rules that could be created to vote. there has to be at least some consistancy across all states in order for an election to be considered valid.

(2) Possession of an ID doesn't necessarily eliminate fraud or decrease the likelihood of unauthorized voters. Persons bent on engaging in fraud can easily get fake identification cards issued

Possession of an ID does not eliminate fraud, you are correct, yet the rule would decrease that fraud by a great amount. To further this arguement, have you seen the price of a good fake identification card lately? the full set of papers required to be "legal" cost much more than even the $97.00 that we are discussing here. The cost of a state ID is even less. at one point or another in life, everyone will need an id for something, to cash a check, to drive, maybe even to just purchase a pack of smokes or a six pack. Should we consider the need for a valid ID to cash a check as a tax on the poor to keep them out of the banks?

(3) The requirement amounts to a poll tax and further depresses voter participation. We live in a country with one of the lowest voter turn-out rates in the developed world. The requirement will mean even less poor and unsophisticated voters will turn out.

I dont think that mandating ID for voting will be reason for anyone to not vote. IDs are easy to get, they are not expensive and it is a step toward a valid election.
What if along with this requirement, the fee for a state issued ID was eliminated and it could be obtained for free providing the proper proof of legal citizenship was met?

[Nobody]

28. Comment from an election judge

What's being blown out of proportion is the assumption that people are voting who shouldn't vote.

Every two years we election judges have to go through training. That year was this year for me, and I also worked the polls for last week's primary.

At training, we were told to be more careful in registering people to vote. Throughout the state there were a few errors in registrations. The form has two tiny boxes that are easy to miss. Tey weren't checked. But we couldn't register anyone without a picture ID and a specific kind of item to prove they lived in the precinct. This is for registering to vote on primary day. (or, in November, election day) We have same-day registration here.

Upshot is that out of all of the people in MN who voted on election day 2004, only SEVEN registrations came back as questionable. Most of those were cleared up, leaving only TWO that were real issues. We weren't told what those issues were. Out of all the newly registered voters, only TWO were not on the up and up. TWO out of a good number of new registrations, and we have the highest turnout in the nation, have had for years. Is this a problem? I'm surprised the number is as low as it is.

If you are already registered, you go to the pre-reg table where there are books with names and addresses in them. You give us your last name (many people do hand us their IDs, it makes spelling names easier in a loud room with poor acoustics, but I'll never ask for it). We find your last name, we ask for your first name, and then your address. It's unlikely that someone pretending to be someone else will know the name AND the address. It's also unlikely that someone voting fraudulently will have both name and address. If there is a question about a pre-registered voter, there will be a written challenge in the book. We can resolve the challenge the same day, so if someone challenges your right to vote, you may still be able to vote.

Next, you assume that everyone who is over the age of 18 should have some form of ID with them at all times. No, not necessarily. It's handy to have your drivers license while operating a motor vehicle, but if stopped by a cop, you have up to a week to produce it at a DMV office. I forgot mine one day and I was stopped because my headlight went out.

If you're not driving, why should you carry ID? I make it a point not to. Anyone who asks for ID who isn't accepting a personal check, or registering me to vote, or pulling me over in a car, or selling me alcoholic beverages, does not need to see my ID, and they won't.

[eggbeater]

34. There are some good reasons to have an ID

""If you're not driving, why should you carry ID? I make it a point not to. Anyone who asks for ID who isn't accepting a personal check, or registering me to vote, or pulling me over in a car, or selling me alcoholic beverages, does not need to see my ID, and they won't.""

Its obvious from your post that you do have an ID. You are willing to use it to drive, or to use your checks or whatever, but for some reason you would choose to hold it back when voting...
I dont understand this.

In your situation, the rules would not be keeping you from voting, its you that would be keeping you from voting.

I think that the answer is to issue FREE Voter ID cards, and increase the number of polling places to accomadate those people that may not be able to get across town to get to their required place of elections.

I am all for an ID to vote.

Something has to be done to keep those that are in this country illegally from having access to our governments law creation functions.

[Nobody]

39. I am all for using an ID as little as possible

The point I make is

We do NOT NEED to change the rules to make more requirements for voting. We already have plenty of perfectly fine rules in place to cut down on voter fraud.

We do NOT HAVE a problem with voters voting when they shouldn't. 2 people out of an entire state, the state that happens to have the highest voter turnut, is that too much of a problem that we need to change the rules?

Do we not want more people voting?

Do we not want to make it easier to vote?

Or do we just want to require people to use IDs for everything we can think of?

[whopis01]

26. Actually, that is not correct

That is what the OP claimed, but that is not accurate. If you read HR4844, it says that it will require "a photographic copy of any document which provides proof that an individual is a citizen of the United States". This simply means a photocopy of a birth certificate or other such document. It does not mean an ID with the photograph of the person in question that also establishes citizenship (i.e., a passport).

[gully]

23. Not everyone has a copy of their birth certificate lying around.

eom

[eggbeater]

36. It cost me 5 bucks to get mine

When I needed it a few years ago.
5 bucks and about two weeks.

[AX10]

16. The Poll Tax led to the downfall of England's Ronald Reagan...

Margaret "Ava Von" Thatcher!

[ComerPerro]

20. I'm wondering if the push for ID to vote is an effort for

RW election judges to be able to turn away registered Democrats.

Think about it.

If you show up and the pollster doesn't want you to vote, there isn't much they can do to turn you away.

But when they require valid photo ID, doesn't that just make it possible for them to have an excuse to selectively turn certain people away (sorry, that doesn't look like you on the ID, sorry, this is not a real ID, etc)

[gully]

24. Read here:

1. It's a blatantly partisan attempt to limit the ability of some groups of voters to cast a ballot. No rigging of the rules allowed!

2. It places a burden on certain groups of voters--elderly, minority, poor, rural, and urban--and that's unfair.

3. Forcing voters to buy a passport at $97 is a de facto poll tax.

[saracat]

22. $97 ? Mine was $145 just last year!

[pitohui]

41. yours was expedited

hence you paid the higher price, apparently you didn't realize it tho, you may have had a nervous clerk at your post office or wherever you got the passport who charged you the higher fee to guarantee faster delivery

i don't pay to expedite my renewals, they've always come real fast anyway (knock on wood!) but some people ALWAYS pay to expedite

[texpatriot2004]

25. NO POLL TAX! nm

[sakabatou]

27. Who the hell came up with HR 4844?

[tpsbmam]

29. Henry Hyde

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h109-4844

[sakabatou]

30. Bastard

[mom cat]

31. Just called my rep! Thanks for the heads up.

[tbyg52]

32. Wish I could do that....

my representative is a vacant seat. (I'm aware there's a lot of that going on, figuratively, but mine's literal. ;) )

[mtnester]

35. Well, in Ohio, I already have to pay to vote.

At the very least? 39 cents to replace my lost SS card.

Or, if that does not come in time, I do have my passport, which yes, I paid about $100.00 for.

Or, what MOST people will show, an Ohio DL, and that cost is around $12.00

Oh Wait, in Ohio:
Financial Responsibility Law - No one can operate a motor vehicle without proof of insurance. To comply with the law, liability coverage of $12,500-$25,000 for personal injury or death and $7,500 for property damage is required.

In Ohio, you have to sign a statement when getting or renewing your license that you carry the minimum required above mentioned Liability insurance. So, for my SON, who is an unmarried male under the age of 30 in the state of Ohio, the ADDITIONAL COST TO VOTE IN THIS STATE is $960.00 ANNUALLY. Now, that is for his full insurance coverage, since he purchased a vehicle he has to carry full coverage insurance. He has no tickets. For myself, a married woman over the age of 40, the extra annual cost for me to have an Ohio DL is just at $400.00 (no tickets, full coverage cause I owe on my vehicle too).

If this damn law, which was struck down in two other states now, is not nailed to the wall here before election day, SOMEONE is asleep at the wheel.

[Skidmore]

37. There is not a document on this earth any more that can prove anything

about citizenship since all documents can be forged. This whole idea that you can prove your identification based on even a picture id is ludicrous since your photo can be attached to a false document. This legislation is bogus.

[eggbeater]

38. Then whats your answer?

When I find fault in others, I do my best to find the alternative to what they are doing or saying. its only fair.

so, whats your idea on making the elections free from those that are not even citizens, or maybe they are citizens (pukes) and wish to vote two or more times in different locations.

how, do you plan to stop them?

the only sure fire way I see to do it is to use a fingerprint identification at the time you vote. really is no question as to who you are at that point. but, it still leaves open the proof of legal status.

[pitohui]

40. some of these statements are not true

If you're not from one of those states -- Alabama, Arizona, and Wyoming -- you'll need a passport in order to vote. That'll cost you $97 and six weeks of waiting,

that is simply not true, louisiana has checked ID for years and driver's licenses are accepted w.out question

states that are careless about issuing driver's licenses to non citizens may have a problem, those states need to clean up their act and mark clearly on the license if a person holding a license to operate a motor vehicle is not a citizen

but it is not unfair or wrong to demand that people prove they are who they say they are before they cast votes -- too many dead people used to vote in louisiana

if we have right on our side, we don't need to make it easy for the cheaters

[lumberjack_jeff]

42. What the bill requires is proof of citizenship

My Washington Driver's License does not prove citizenship, correct me if I'm wrong, but legal resident aliens can also have a legitimate DL.

Louisiana's current process of checking ID would be insufficient in the Hyde bill. Absent a citizenship endorsed DL, or a Passport, or a certified copy of your birth certificate, you won't get to vote.