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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 12:48 PM
Original message
The Shanksville Redemption

"Did you tell her I don't like motherfuckers who gas their own people?" the president snapped. "Did you tell her I don't like assholes who lie to the world? Did you tell her I'm going to kick his sorry motherfucking ass all over the Mideast?"
-- President George W. Bush asking Press Secretary Ari Fleischer about a conversation with reporter Helen Thomas; from page 3 of "Hubris," by David Corn and Michael Isikoff


Our democracy has been hijacked. This is not news to those on the progressive left, including participants on forums such as the Democratic Underground. When we read the angry outburst above, directed at an elderly lady who simply asked a question that challenged the president's lies, we are not surprised. We recognized that this fellow who fronted for the group of thugs who forced their way into the cockpit of the nation was a hostile, unstable man from Day One.

But not all of the other passengers of these United States saw him the same way. Many were fooled into believing that he was a strong leader, who had mastered aviation in his days serving in the National Guard. They saw a gentle side, when he sat and read "My Pet Goat" to little school children. And they believed the charade on the USS Abraham Lincoln, when Bush gloated under a banner that said, "Mission Accomplished." He promised the American public that major combat operations were completed, and that we had prevailed. Bush said we would begin to investigate "hundreds of sites" with WMD components.

Those systems that were supposed to alert the American public to the dangers posed by the gang of hijackers, commonly known the "neoconservatives," failed us. In large part, it wasn't that they made a noble attempt; rather, they were too cowardly to even speak up. Only a very few even tried, and that made it easier for the hijackers to carry out their criminal activities. The neocons savagely attacked those few individuals who attempted to challange them.

The example that sticks out the most is, of course, what has become known as the Plame scandal. Almost immediately, the progressive left recognized that something that went absolutely in the face of democracy had taken place. The neocons were unsettled by author David Corn's pointing out that the administration may have violated federal. And they were surprised when progressive democrats and others on the left took an interest in a case involving the CIA.

The neocons engaged in attempts to bury the investigation. In early December of 2003, a "senior White House official" told a Financial Times reporter, "We have rolled the earthmovers in over this one." Then, at the end of December, the neocons were shocked to learn that Patrick Fitzgerald had been appointed to head the investigation.

This month, a new book has been published that does a remarkable job of uncovering that which the White House earthmovers had thought they buried. The book is "Hubris: The Inside Story of Spin, Scandal, and the Selling of the Iraq War," by David Corn and Michael Isikoff. Early reviews of the book focused almost entirely upon the authors identifying Richard Armitage as the first "source" for Robert Novak, the scum who publicly exposed Valerie Plame. The neocons almost immediately began pushing this as "proof" that the operation to damage Joseph Wilson had not been conducted by the Office of the Vice President.

"Hubris," however, does quite the opposite: the book documents the Plame scandal as belonging to Dick Cheney, Scooter Libby, Karl Rove, and others connected to the White House Iraq Group. To the extent that Corn and Isikoff have pointed this out on various news shows, the WHIG has brought Novak out of the moth balls, and again had him play point for their team.

DUers are not fooled by these tactics. We've studied the role of the secretive Rendon Group, for example. We know all about their tricks of the trade, which they call "perception management." But the truth is that most Americans don't. And so it is a good thing when a "mainstream" author like Michael Isikoff has a book that contains some information about the Rendon Group. Indeed, if most of us told others about what we've learned about the Rendon Group from the Democratic Underground, they are going to be less likely to accept it as true, than if we are able to introduce them to Rendon through a Newsweek writer. We have to be able to communicate to others by using the language they understand, and are comfortable with.

Now this, of course, makes the neocons uncomfortable. They try to silence any "mainstream" voice that can communicate the truth to a larger, unaware audience. A good example is found in Chris Matthews, the host of MSNBC's Hardball. Most people who follow the Plame scandal are aware that I. Liar Libby claimed that Tim Russert told him about Valerie Plame. Libby is charged with telling that lie to FBI investigators, and to Mr. Fitzgerald's grand jury. Libby's supporters used to say that it was just a case of one man's word against another's. But they have stopped that weak stuff, and the reason why is fully described in "Hubris." On pages 266-7, Corn and Isikoff detail how Libby called Russert to complain about Matthews' coverage of the Iraq war and the Plame scandal. Libby accused Matthews of anti-Semitism, because Chris focused on the roles of Libby, Perle, and Wolfowitz. Russert suggested Libby call NBC president Neal Shapiro. Russert himself called Shapiro, and made a record of the Libby conversation. Russert described Libby's call as "an implicit warning" from the Vice President's office. Shapiro actually did contact Matthews' exexcutive producer, and made clear that Chris had to "throttle back a bit" because "this guy is still the vice president."

If you told your co-workers that "H2O Man" from the Democratic Underground said the OVP had attempted to keep Chris Matthews from reporting the truth, they might think that you've lost your mind. In fact, a lot of DUers have thought I had lost mine when I've said that Matthews has tried to be honest, but that his job restricts his ability to tell us what he knows about this case. Well, now we have Corn and Isikoff reporting this very thing.

At the same time, we find that Ahmed Chalabi was able to spread his lies not only to the fools in the VP's intelligence outfit, known as the "Office of Special Plans," but also through the corporate media. His #1 cheerleader and concubine was Judith Miller, and so his misinformation made the New York Times' front page frequently. More, the authors show that Chalabi's INC could access The Sunday Times of London; Vanity Fair; Time; The Atlantic Monthly; NPR; CNN; The New Yorker; Newsweek; Fox News (shocking!); 60 Minutes; The National Review; The Weekly Standard; the Associated Press; The Washington Times; and the Washington Post. (page 53)

On the Democratic Underground, we have discussed the fact that the OVP runs a "shadow government." On pages 5-6, the authors note that Libby oversaw a "shadow" National Security Council, and that he "had a reputation of being a prick" and "was nasty and obnoxious" in his dealings with the real intelligence community.

The administration has long scoffed at reports that Bush is simply a tool being used by Dick Cheney & Co., who really run the country. Yet, the authors reveal things such as the fact that neither George Bush or Condi Rice read the National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) that was used to support administration claims that Saddam's Iraq posed a threat with WMD. We know, of course, that Team Libby has claimed the NIE is essential to establishing Scooter's defense in his upcoming trial. Scooter, his lawyers note, was focused almost entirely on the NIE information. Cheney gave Libby the green light to share parts of the NIE with reporters such as Miller. Pretrial documents show that Bush okayed this; it is important to note Bush had never even read the classified document that Cheney asked his permission to leak to reporters.

Very few US Senators had read the NIE, either. It is sadly obvious that members of both parties, in both the House and Senate, betrayed this country by cowering from the neocon hijacking gang. The book shows that of those who knew the administration was absolutely lying about the intelligence, a couple republicans were braver than the majority of democrats. When Joseph Biden and two republicans (Lugar and Hagel) were "pushing an alternative that would narrow the president's authority," they were undercut by a House democratic leader, Dick Gephardt. (page 127)

Likewise, when individuals in the intelligence community were willing to challenge the distortions of the White House, they were betrayed by George Tenet. Instead, our country relied on clowns like Douglas Feith, who helped lead the charge on such issues as the cave that might hold WMDs (which turned out to be a pond for cattle); the uranium being stored in a warehouse before being sent to Iraq (oops! it was bales of cotton, not uranium); and the containers of ricin (okay, they were actually barrels of curdled milk).

The book is not perfect. It does not include much information on the OVP/WHIG efforts to do a "workup" on Joseph Wilson from March to June in 2003. It doesn't discuss the neocon/AIPAC espionage scandal, either. However, it does provide some insight on a character involved in both the Plame and neocon/AIPAC espionage operations: David Wurmser. They twice note Wurmser called Chalabi his "mentor." And the authors provide some interesting information on Chalabi's top aide, Aras Habib, who the CIA had identified as being an agent of Iranian intelligence in the mid-1990s. It also has enough inside information on Judith Miller to support the often made claim on DU that her reporter status was merely a cover for her true position.

Most important, however, is that Corn and Isikoff document what Valerie Plame Wilson's position was at the CIA. She was working on WMD issues involving both Iraq and Iran. Her group recognized that there was no substance to the information on Iraq's WMD programs that the neocons were endorsing as fact. More, they recognized that much of the misinformation was able to be traced back to Chalabi's INC.

Of course, people on DU have read information similar to this many times before. But it helps to have mainstream authors documenting it. And Corn and Isikoff add a good bit of new information, and raise many, many interesting and thought-provoking points. The book is worth buying and reading. It is worth our placing it on our bookshelves next to Amassador Wilson's "The Politics of Truth." More than that, it is a valuable tool for us to use to educate the general public about "the inside story of spin, scandal, and the selling of the Iraq war" between now and election day.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. So proud to give the first recommend.
Outsanding....as usual.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Recommended #4 NT
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Thanks!
I appreciate that.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Thank you!
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. K & R!
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. Reading all this together in one spot sort of freaks me out
I don't know whether to cheer, wind my watch, or throw something!

Good stuff!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I think it
kind of sums up not only the book "Hubris," but also what a talented team of DUers has been putting together for three years.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I agree about the talented DUers... need to read the book...
This is the sort of thing we all need to keep handy as a tool in conversations with the Freeper-esque. It is also critical that all Democrats currently running for office use this information, pardon the pun, liberally. The ability to pinpoint information is crucial. It's time to take off the gloves and load both barrels... mixed metaphor intended:)
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. To my knowledge, the one in charge of the Office of Special Plans
is now in charge of the group spearheading the task of gathering "intelligence" to make a case for war against Iran. I cannot remember his name; he is of Middle Eastern origin, as I recall.

It's becoming increasingly clear that the outing of Plame had so many little side-benefits to this corrupt administration.

================

An excellent write-up, H20Man. As always, you are able to distill the essence of an issue into its most basic elements.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thanks, I'll place my order today.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
12. K&R. Thank you H2O Man.
:kick:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. yes. thanks a bunch
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
14. Why Won't Anyone Say He Lied?
Edited on Tue Sep-19-06 02:13 PM by Me.
Why won't they? With a few exceptions, notably Olberman and Maher, no one will flat out say * lied. They dance around it, say he believed what he believed, he was misled, the intelligence was wrong... Even Frank Rich on Imus, who certainly know better, did the dance. You know it, "he's well meaning" and again he believes what he believes.

Well everyone believes what they believe, from idiots right up to despots and tyrants. Hitler certainly believed that Germans were the maaster race and all others should be ground into the dirt by jackboots.

*shadow government*
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. Okay. I will:
He lied. He had planned from the beginning of his administration to invade Iraq. Men like Paul O'Neill and Richard Clarke have made that clear. Then along came 9/11, and it was postponed.

The book notes (page 363) that the day after the 9/11 Commission report came out, Bush continued to insist that, "There was a relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda." He told people that "Iraqi intelligence officers met with bin Laden, the head of al-Qaeda, in the Sudan." One can either believe that Bush is not competent to pour a glass of water, or that he is a liar. I believe that all the evidence, including the tell-tale smirk that pulls on both corners of his mouth when he thinks he is pulling a fast one over on the public, indicates that he is a liar.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. PNAC Damns Him & The Others
as liars and subsequently as criminals. His own words condemn him, as he made clear, to those in the know that, Iraq was the bullseye from the first day he stepped into the oval.. They just didn't know how they were going to swing it with the American people. Then 9/11 happened. An opportunity ripe for the picking. WMD's, the best reason he and the neos could come up with to lie their way into war. So many lies, WMDs, no one in my office had anything to do with the outing of an agent, we're doing everything we can for the people of N.O., we don't torture, the laws are on our side...So many we need a compendium.

*shadow government*
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
47. The lie that bugs me the most is that war was his last resort.
Everything follows from that.

All the senators who had reservations about voting for the Iraq War Resolution were depending on his promise to use the full authorization for force to negotiate, from the strongest position, a peaceful resolution.

They grabbed the money and ran. They never intended to use force as a last resort. Invading was their direct objective.

Bush said he needed that authority to show Saddam he was serious, so he could fix this via the UN and weapons inspectors, with force a credible threat only if all else failed.

He didn't say that they had plans in place to make sure that all else would fail. Even extra-legal NSA intercepts, to be used against their own team-members (Powell) if necessary.

"War is the last thing a president wants."

Spoken by a world-class liar.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 04:45 AM
Response to Reply #47
56. "I'm the war president."
That little quote, which we know is caught on film, sure takes the legs out from under the lie that war was the last resort. "Bring it on" does, too.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. What a trashy mouth George W. Bush has.
I wonder what the religious Bush backers out there think about that although they probably think it's a lie and just hear say.

K&R!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. "Expletive Deleted"
Many years ago, when the White House released transcripts of the Nixon tapes, one of the things that upset the general public was the number of times that "(expletive deleted)" appeared in the text. Many were more capable of recognizing that "their president was a crook" when they saw that he had a foul mouth.
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
16. ** like motherfuckers who gas their own people
But letting them drown, or boiling them alive for information, that's fine and dandy.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. Worthy of recommendation and bookmarking. Thanks H@O Man for
putting it concisely all together.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
19. Recommended and bookmarked!
I've still got to read Hubris, but after reading what you wrote, I'm looking forward to it a lot more. Especially any additional info on Wurmser that we haven't already uncovered. Thanks H2O Man!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Hello, RP!
I think that you, as much as anyone from the infamous Plame Threads, will find the book a fun read. More, I think you will get a kick out of how much of it was already known to DUers.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
20. This evisceration of this RW cabal and its agenda is most provocative and
disturbing for it demonstrates the complete failure of every branch of government and agency, the fourth estate, and we the people to stop it right in its tracks. History will not be kind to any of us who stood by and watched it happen, bit by bit, piece by piece and especially those who aided and abetted.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Right.
There comes a time when one simply must say, "Let's roll!" We have 50 days, I believe, until the elections. Those 50 days should be our warm-up.
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young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
25. "Many were fooled".....how true, unfortunately!
That's evidently what they count on to win elections....'fool me once and keep right on fooling'!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
26. " 'After all,
this is a guy that tried to kill my dad at one time.' ..... That Bush was citing the incident nine years later to explain his current policy made some members of Congress uncomfortable."
-- pages 115-6 *

* The footnote on page 116 indicates that the incident George W. Bush made reference to is questionable, at best.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
27. I'll never lose hope.
Note- with hope in your heart- that these earlier Americans always found their way to the light and we can, too.

Thanks for all of your insightful, factual posts, H20 Man!:hi:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Things are good.
I like to sing a Beatles song from Sgt. Peppers titled, "Getting Better." I'm sure you are as familiar with it as I am. It has a wonderful part from Paul about, "It's getting better all the time," and then John chimes in, "Can't get much worse." It amazes me that they wrote that so long ago! Heck, Nixon wasn't even the US president then.

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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Getting so much better all the time!
Great OP, as usual. It is rather amazing how much of the info kicking around DU is proving accurate. I'm looking forward to reading this book. I saw David Corn on Washington Journal yesterday, and he and Isikoff were on Democracy Now! last week; Amy Goodman gave them most of the show.

K&R

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. I saw both programs.
As I sometimes do, I attempted calling WJ. But the lines were busy.

I thought Democracy Now! had one of the best shows I've seen in years. I am very impressed with Amy Goodman.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
43. Those lines have been
making frequent appearances in my stream of thought this last week. I especially enjoy the interplay (later commented on by John) about the interplay of their two personalities in coming up with these two lines. I think in the end, John was being optimistic too, in his left-handed way.

Of course, in the last five years every time I've though it couldn't get worse, I've regretted it.
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Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
28. Thank you for keeping the truth alive.
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
30. The new home of the hijackers
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TAPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #30
62. Thanks for your link Bonito -
I went to the FDD site - my blood ran cold. The folks over there are some very interesting bedfellows.

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TheCentepedeShoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
31. Thank you for the recommendation
I flipped through it at the bookstore the other day and it looked interesting. Book budget is a little lean right now and I chose "Bush on the Couch" instead. Will try to go back in the next couple of weeks for "Hubris." Mr 'pede wants me to get John Dean's new book, too.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. It can get expensive
to buy even half the books that look worth reading. Having a good library nearby can make a big difference. (I really enjoyed Dean's latest book. My only complaint is that it was far too short.)
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Anakin Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
32. Bush was talking about Himself?
"Did you tell her I don't like assholes who lie to the world?"

Umm...excuse me, Your Imperial Righteousness, but isn't that exactly what YOU did?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. I can remember
when the great basketball player and gentleman Bill Russell said, "Choose your enemies carefully, because they are often the people you come to resemble most in life." I had found myself thinking of that when I read Bush's rant.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
36. "Hubris," by David Corn and Michael Isikoff. Thanks.
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Annces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
37. Shanksville - I had to look that up
Shanksville, Pennsylvania - where plane went down



A totem pole carved by Jewell James from the Lummi Tribe located in Blaine, Washington. The pole is the highest honor their tribe gives to fallen heroes. One was delivered to the World Trade Center site for the first anniversary, Shanksville in 2003, and the Pentagon received one in 2004.

http://www.pahighways.com/features/shanksville.html
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
39. As thoughtfully written as ever.
This was something I didn't know and was nauseated to learn:

"neither George Bush or Condi Rice read the National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) that was used to support administration claims that Saddam's Iraq posed a threat with WMD."

Well, that settles that, doesn't it? It can't just be incompetence, can it? No. Plausible deniability, much?

"We know, of course, that Team Libby has claimed the NIE is essential to establishing Scooter's defense in his upcoming trial. Scooter, his lawyers note, was focused almost entirely on the NIE information."

He was working on something secret with Unka Dick...

"Cheney gave Libby the green light to share parts of the NIE with reporters such as Miller. Pretrial documents show that Bush okayed this; it is important to note Bush had never even read the classified document that Cheney asked his permission to leak to reporters."

Read it? He has brush to clear.

Thanks for your wonderful tapestry of this despicable group and all of its enablers. :toast:
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
40. Excerpt from Wikipedia, Aristotle on "Hubris"
As for the pleasure in hubris, its
cause is this: men think that by ill-treating others they make their own
superiority the greater.<2>
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
41. K&R That was already next on my buying list
I was waiting for a review or two, and you've more than taken care of that!
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
42. SOOO recommended
And what a book review. I'm sold.
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kohodog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
44. Great Post
Have you noticed that the same characters are bringing up the same fears with regard to Iran? (grin)

Cheney is the quiet one, but Bush and Hadley are foaming at the mouth. The IAEA is saying they are wrong, but we don't know who the next Joe Wilson will be. Just today I heard Ed Shultz (of all people) say he was going to bring up a connection between Halliburton and the Iranian nuclear program. I remember discussions with you and RobertPaulson about this in the Plame threads. Maybe the MSM is actually starting to catch on.

Is RP still here?

I'll see if I can find out more about the teaser I heard today. If anyone heard the discussion please tell us if there was any substance.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #44
59. Old-Timers Day ....
RobertPaulson is here (see post #19). Quite a few of the contributors from the infamous Plame Threads are still found, from time to time, though they may be keeping lower profiles.

The discussions taking place in the media now are interesting. It seems that the same folks who are publicly advocating that Bush endorse a military strike on Iran, because no future president will have the historic opportunity, are the same people demanding that he pardon Scooter Libby. Small world.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
45. Thank you for this essay. Two questions about details
for you, since I haven't yet read it. Do they talk about Cheney's role in rushing out a highly slanted NIE in a hurry before the Iraq War Resolution? And do they mention that Curveball is reportedly the nephew of Chalabi's top aide?

A lot of your essay focuses on the importance of these long-know facts being reported by mainstream authors, which is a fascinating aspect of this subject. These are a couple of underreported facts that might be indicators of the tide mark at this point.

Glad to have indicators! Things are good.


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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #45
58. Good questions.
The book has interesting information on "Curveball," although I do not think they mentioned anything about his possibly being the nephew of Chalabi's aide. They did discuss "Curveball's" family, and the information they had indicated that those who were invested in him were not looking out for our nation's best interests.

The book has interesting information on Cheney, including his manipulation of pre-war intelligence. Much of it can be summed up in one sentence found on page 354: "After all, if Libby had leaked classified information at the urging of the vice president, Cheney would be vulnerable to a conspiracy charge."

On page 238, the authors tell of Libby's focus on a passage from Winston Churchill's writings, when he spoke of the prelude to WW2: "I felt as if I were walking with destiny, and that all my past life had been but a preparation for this hour and this trial." Libby told his friends that Cheney was the Churchill of our times.

On page 158, Cheney's image of himself is found in a story about a social gathering the VP arranged with his "favorite in-house intellectuals to discuss the upcoming conflict." Among his favorites was Victor Davis Hanson, who Maureen Dowd has accurately called the VP's "war guru." In a Wall Street Journal cheerleading piece, Hanson had wrote that "battlefield stalwarts are rarely consensus builders," and that "great leaders are not only unpredictable, but often a little frightening."

Hanson later said that, at this little war party, Cheney was focused on Hanson's thoughts on those who are considered "warmongers," but who are actually just looking to "create freedom and a better life" for others. Hanson noted that it was evident that Cheney viewed himself as being similar to George Patton and William Tecumseh Sherman. That is really pathetic; if anything, it shows that Cheney is similar in many ways to John Mark Karr, in that both have sick fantasies.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. Churchill, Sherman & Patton
These are some sick puppies. A prison cell would give them time to reflect on their delusions. I am told Cheney does not travel outside the US primarily because, for all his bravado, he worries that someone might want to arrest him. I bet he was focused on Hanson's views on warmongers. Guilty people often look for deflection of their crimes. And one difference between that icky sick Karr and Cheney is that it appears Karr isn't responsible for anyone's death.

*shadow government*
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. The other morning
a guest on the Imus show was saying that VP Cheney was the type of guy who can be found in most work places: he feigns being competent, has strong opinions on everything, likes being considered an expert, but really doesn't have a clue. I know that when one examines his career, a strong case can be made for this position. But it doesn't quite work for me. There is something a lot darker there. I found myself agreeing when Imus said he thought Cheney was more like the BTK killer: someone who we all know as an uptight, angry guy, who we find out is a mass murderer.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #61
66. Word.
:kick:
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
46. selling of the Iraq war
Cheney's ambition, forced on, adopted by Bush like the military neonuts he encouraged Bush to hire.

Thanks for the review.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
48. What a cesspool...
of lies. It sickens me to think that this could happen in America. Will history be left to judge anyone, or will it all go up in smoke?
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
49. Bravo!
Well done bit o' writing!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
50. Now THAT's a Post!
Thanks for putting it into words, H20 Man.

Each day, the hologram that is the common reality becomes clearer.

And that part belonging to Smirk and Sneer stands out, in all its evil, for all to see.

I KBR'd your post first time I saw it.

It's even better on the second and third read-throughs.

HombreDeAgua, estas chevere.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. One for the bookmarks, for sure! And another big K&R. nt
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #50
70. Thank you.
On page 238, the authors note that in his 1996 attempt to be an author, Scooter's protagonist is tortured with a hot coal for refusing to give up a secret. They tell how Scooter's character, an inkeeper's virgin apprentice, takes the pain rather than talk. Sounds familiar, eh?

On the same page, they quote an aide who said Libby had planned to work for the man he considered today's Churchill, until "I get indicted or something."
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
51. Kudos for a great post....
come, we surfing...eat, smile, sing, laugh....
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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
53. Thank you so much
H2O Man. Again, you have taken the tangled threads of this tale, and smoothed them out so that some of us can understand better what's been happening. I know so many DUers who had no trouble following all of this, but as hard as I tried, I wasn't one of them. So...thanks!
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
54. Is this being published anywhere else, I hope? nt
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 03:51 AM
Response to Original message
55. Here's a nifty chart:



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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
57. I so appreciate your efforts here.
Thanks for such an informative piece of work.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
63. I'll send this over to emptywheel. Proud to recommend it
both inside and outside DU.

You're a fine and compassionate voice.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
64. Excellant piece, should remain kicked thru November 7th...
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
65. Zealotry driven by desperation....K&RI
I just love this: "...and that made it easier for the hijackers to carry out their criminal activities. The neocons savagely attacked those few individuals who attempted to challenge them." The neocons screw up by the numbers and then savage an "opposition" that wouldn't have opposed anyway. It's all a compensation for a threat, real Democratic opposition, that never existed. Samuel Beckett could not have written it better.

Superb post.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #65
68. There are two
other individuals that I know of who attempted, between 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq, to simply ask a question or two. They paid for that. They were not even democrats, and were not in congress. The neoconservatives were ruthless, and intimidated people who lacked the inner strength to stand up for what they knew was the truth.

It takes a special person to stand up to the most vicious of human beings. There is an old description of Joseph Wilson that I think is interesting to consider: "The chief American diplomat, Joe Wilson, shepherds his flock of some 800 known Americans like a village priest. At 4:30 Sunday morning, he was helping 55 wives and children of US diplomats from Kuwait load themselves and their few remaining possessions on transport for the long haul on the Jordan. He shows the stuff of heroism." The authors of that description were Robert Novak and Rowland Evans.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
67. 88th rec
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
69. A big reason why
"DUers are not fooled by these tactics" is because of leaders like you H20 Man
- thanks for this informative and beautiful piece.

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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
71. K&R(nt)
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