If Treatment Of This Human Being Is Not Torture, We Are Fucked!

[leftchick]

These are the tactics the US has been using since 2001 in handling all "high value" detainees. The Senate is now debating GC common article 3 in regard to their treatment because it needs clarifying"?

This seems pretty fucking clear to me! The US is using INHUMANE treatment on our "disappeared" detainees. The fact that they are more often than not innocent means NOTHING.....

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR511662005

CASE SHEET 13
Bahraini national: Abdullah al-Noaimi

<snip>

Abdullah al-Noaimi was taken to Kandahar, where he alleges he was tortured, sexually abused and humiliated, and denied adequate medical care.

He says that:

- he was knocked to the ground while attempting to walk in shackles, and then US soldiers jumped on his back and kicked him;
- an object was placed in his rectum after he had been forced to strip naked in front of male and female soldiers;
- a female soldier, upon learning that Abdullah al-Noaimi’s brother lived in the USA, threatened to kill him;
- he was exposed to extreme cold;
- he was punched and had rocks thrown at him;
- on one occasion he and other detainees were forced to kneel down. He heard the US soldiers unzipping their trousers and he felt a warm liquid on his back and head. He does not know whether he was urinated on or if it was a simulation designed to humiliate;
- he witnessed other detainees being bitten by military dogs.

Abdullah al-Noaimi developed a urinary tract infection, a fever, was unable to eat and frequently vomited. His skin turned yellow and there was blood in his urine. He was taken to a makeshift clinic where he says a military doctor allowed a military policeman to inject him with an unknown substance. When he began to bleed as a result, the doctor and the policeman laughed. He was taken out of the clinic, despite being recommended rest, and put in a freezing tent. Soldiers routinely ordered the detainees out of bed to kneel on the floor. Because Abdullah al-Noaimi found it difficult to kneel, soldiers kicked him in the back.

Guantánamo Bay


"You’re here because you’re a dog. Cages are for dogs like you."
Interrogator to Abdullah al-Noaimi in Guantánamo Bay


In June 2002, Abdullah al-Noaimi was shackled, hooded and placed on a plane bound for Guantánamo Bay naval base, Cuba. His continuing health problems made the journey especially difficult. Even though he had a urinary tract infection and diarrhoea, he alleges that he was denied water and access to toilet facilities.
When he arrived at the detention facility he says that he was injected with unknown drugs. Some of them made him depressed and despondent, others made him feel drunk.

Abdullah al-Noaimi was placed in solitary confinement, in a cold metal cell where the lights were kept on constantly. If he fell asleep guards would wake him up. One male guard threatened to rape him, and according to his lawyer, taunted him by "winking at him and blowing kisses at him".

In addition, Abdullah al-Noaimi says that:

- an interrogator threatened to take him to an FBI prison where he would be "turned into a woman";
- he was subjected to sexual taunting by female personnel;
- he was forced to sign confessions that he had travelled to Afghanistan to fight for the Taliban;
- he was physically assaulted by guards and had his face placed in a toilet bowl;
- he was given pills which he claims made him hallucinate and feel like he was going insane

Edit to Add: Mr. Abdullah al-Noaimi Was released by the US FOUR years later when he was found to not be associated with or have any information about "terror networks"! Apparently without a trial the only way to figure this out is through torture. :grr:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. I wish I believed in Hell so I could imagine everyone involved in this

roasting there. How did we come to this?

[formercia]

2. This is how you turn people into terrorists

Take an innocent person and destroy their life.

[arcane1]

3. Bush thinks it's ok if this happens to our soldiers, too

and of course, an 'insurgent' will fight that much harder if they know this is the fate that awaits them if they are caught

[leftchick]

10. a very scary thought

is them fighting harder to capture US soldiers. :(

[earth mom]

20. Bush & his thugs are seriously misguided if they think torture of any kind

will fly with their "base" either.

I used to post on a mixed board that had some really annoying freepers on it but one thing that we all agreed on was that torture of ANYONE was hideous. I remember that the freepers on that board were specifically worried that torture of the "enemy" would bring about retaliatory torture upon U.S. troops. All of us, including the freepers, were quite upset and angry about that possibility.

[TomInTib]

4. I am absolutley ashamed of our military

Fucking up a guy in the field is one thing (I, myself have been guilty of same).

Doing this shit to a confined person is just plain chickenshit.

k&r

[qwertyMike]

5. Sounds Like Belfast

My cousin SIR, and I mean SIR, K******, told me about that and worse. He was the N. Ireland liasion with the Britz with Mo Mowlam.

I haven't killed him yet.

Best Man at his f*cking wedding 1974

[BootinUp]

6. I hope the Repub rebels will hold their ground

or that we can filibuster any attempt to pass the legislation Bush wants.

[Warpy]

7. I am ashamed to be an American

I will NEVER, NOT EVER forgive this administration for that.

[leftchick]

8. me either.

It is awful to be an american these days. :(

[qwertyMike]

11. I was going to say

"It always was"

But that was in a moment of anger.
Your people, and ( being Irish) I have relatives in Boston, NY, Philly (Saw Hank Aaron hit a home run there). Also Utah (Mormons - go figger).

The best most pleasant people in the world.

I was a Hippy (1972), met a few people in Mexico, draft dodgers I guess.

We all exchanged addresses. Stopped in San Antonio on the way back with a few other 'Hippies' and had an outdoor steak/corn fest.

I said - what's your dad do?

He said "Works for the FBI"

Never seen so much hair disappear under a picnic table.

I love you Americans, but hit the streets

[leftchick]

16. "hit the streets"??? I wish!

I think with the patriot act and all of the other fascist laws implemented since 9/11 we are so fucked if we try a revolt. It is way too late and truly fucked by now. I want out of here with my family ASAP!

peace,
lc

[AIJ Alom]

9. This is truly the sickest regime ever and the more I think of it they are

not torturing to obtain admissions of guilt but simply to INDUCE acceptance of guilt through whatever means necessary (torture, the violation of basic human dignity) in order to justify unnecessary bloodshed and continue the debacle in the mideast.

I use the word regime in place of administration because this is what this cabal in Washington appears to be...a regime hell bent on using every American resource for personal gain and maintenance of power through any means necessary. For those who are willing to torture and kill, lying and manipulation of public trust is nothing at all.

[Octafish]

12. If they did it to suspected terra-ists, they'll soon do it to us.

The BFEE is real. Its members are KKK-Eugenicist-NAZI-Mafia-drug running-Big Oil-Big Money-Military-Intelligence-Industrial Complex mass-murdering warmongering sons of bitches.

[fed-up]

13. kick and R n/t

[qwertyMike]

14. I could be trite, which I was in another post

It is so soo sad, it brings tears to my eyes.

What is wrong with us?
Can anyone answer?

[leftchick]

18. I know what is wrong!

Most americans who get their news from tv (60-75%??) have no fucking clue what exactly the US is doing to people who many times ARE INNOCENT!!!!!You have to search for tjis on the internet or find it in left leaning mags like Harpers or MoJo! It is disgusting!

:puke:

[Straight Shooter]

15. I don't know, all those descriptions sound a little "vague" to me.

I'm not sure we can actually call it torture.

:sarcasm:

Reference: Little Boots asserted at the press conference that Article III needs to be revamped because "humiliation and cruel treatment" are vague descriptions.

[Jack Rabbit]

17. Gee, you learn something everyday

While look just now for a pictorial representation of waterbording, I found that it has it roots in the middle ages.



Form the Book of Old Days

Funny thing is that I knew about the dunking stool as a method of punishing a scold or getting a witch to confess when I was a child, but didn't think to draw the connection. Yet this is effectively what waterboarding is.

No one thinks not to call this torture when it is done to one suspected of witchcraft, but your favorite Frat Boy and mine still wants Congress to bass a law that it isn't torture when he does it.

And if authorities can get someone to confess to witchcraft with this kind of "harsh interrogration technique," it is no wonder they were able to get some individual in one of Bush's secret offshore gulags to tell the regime what he knew _{his interrogators wanted to hear} about Saddam's biochemical arsenal. Witches and Saddam's biochemical arsenal have a lot in common, after all.

I had been quipping up to now that the regime wants to define torture such that it isn't torture unless it was used by Torquemada. Perhaps I need to revise that. They don't seem to care whether they are using the methods of the Spanish Inquisition.

[NNN0LHI]

19. Waterboarding brought us Osama coming ashore in scuba gear

Thats how Bush got that story. Take that to the bank.

Don

[leftchick]

21. The "Spanish Inquisition."

is where many of their favorite techniques have originated.

[Jack Rabbit]

22. Yes, and every one them works . . .

. . . and every one them works a lot better at getting the subject to say what the interrogator wants to hear than at getting the subjet to tell the interrogator what he needs to know.

[Supersedeas]

34. confess that you are a heretic/confess that you are a terrorist

[razors edge]

23. what about those

we have tortured to death?

[spanone]

24. It IS torture and we ARE fucked.

We have made enemies for many lifetimes. Our childrens children will pay for the Bush* crimes against humanity.

[malaise]

25. It is torture

Karma is coming.

[Pachamama]

26. Karma is coming and its not going to be pretty for the American people or

the world....This administration has done such damage on a karmic level that there is going to be much suffering coming...Unfortunately, its not the perpetrators who will be doing the suffering alone.

I feel sick. I listened to Randi Rhodes today reading this story and I thought I was going to throw up. I immediately logged on and donated money to Amnesty International. I didn't know what else to do.

[Disturbed]

27. This is how a "low value" detainee is treated.

A few months a US Contractor got six months in prison for this type of action upon Iraqi detainees. He was a dog handler for the US Military in Iraq.

[leftchick]

29. Harper's had an excellent story: "American Gulag" in the Sept. issue

That is where I learned about Mr. al Noaimi. You can read it and weep here.... :(

http://www.espacioblog.com/mydigest/post/2006/09/17/eliza-griswold-american-gulag

[malaise]

31. You're correct n/t

[opihimoimoi]

28. BushCo Mimics evil empires of History...doomed tofailure...they have not

learned the lessons of what to avoid...

Short term Gain...

Long Term LOSS

[NMMNG]

30. And then they wonder why America is so hated

It sure as heck isn't for our freedoms.

[vincent_vega_lives]

32. Not Torture

Torture is crushing, burning, cutting, extensive beating causing great pain.

IF TRUE it is degrading abuse. I doubt it is all true. I know a few Gitmo Guards. Quite a few have been assaulted themselves with makeshift weapons. Guards have been cut/stabbed over 90 times. The rules they have to abide by are daunting. Even medical personnel have to wear protective gear when treating certain detainees.

[myrna minx]

33. OK, if you say so.

:eyes:

[vincent_vega_lives]

35. I do say so n/t

[Zodiak]

36. You are ignorant of the law

the law says differently than your simplistic take on torture.

18 U.S.C. § 2340A (2000).
10
Section 2340 provides in full:

(1) "torture" means an act committed by a person acting under color of law specifically
intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering
incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;

The many, many people who have died at Abu Ghraib as a result of "blunt force trauma" would fall in this category for sure. So would electrical charges applied to various extremeties.

(2) "severe mental pain or suffering" means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting
from—

(A)
the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;

Anything under #1 will certainly cause #2A to occur, according to the law. All one has to do is threaten these things, which means that every prisoner shown pictures of the torture of other prisoners is in violation of this law.

(B)
the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of
mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or
the personality;

Hooding people for days would fall under this category. So would sensory deprivation of any kind. Also, the "poppers" we have been hearing about (microwave weapons mounted on rooftops in Iraq that alter personality) wuld fall into this category, as well.

(C)
the threat of imminent death; or

Any time we threaten to kill someone in our custody, that is a violation of the conventions. How many examples of this can we dig up?

(D)
the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical
pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other
procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality; and

I wonder if the family members that we have catored of insurgents were threatened in any way. The same applies to any threatening notes we leave behind to the insurgent about what is to hapen to his family.

(3) "United States" means the several States of the United States, die District of Columbia,
and the commonwealths, territories, and possessions of the United States,

Do we "possess" Gitmo? I bet we do. Also, I would argue that we "possess" our secret prisons, as well.

Torture includes all sorts of actions beyond cutting, stabbing, crushing, etc. These are the facts, not the "gut check" definition that, by happenstance, reflects Alberto Gonzales'. The law disagrees.

[leftchick]

37. one person's "discomfort"

is another person's torture? Thank God we have laws on this! And Thank you for posting that. :)

[vincent_vega_lives]

39. yes it does

pretty much squashes the concept of coercive interrogation, which relies on fear, discomfort and disorientation to break down the resistance of uncooperative detainees.

This code when applied to detainees captured outside US law (Afghanistan/Iraq) pretty much eliminates that option and interrogators are reduced to voluntary submissions of information.

[Zodiak]

40. Yup. Welcome to the civilized world.

"Coercive interrogation" sounds like a euphamism for torture and mistreating prisoners of war to me. Interrogations of prisoners are supposed to use the carrot, too, and the stick is justifiably blunted by the law, but I guess we have lost sense of that in our thirst for blood.

And, for your information, the Geneva conventions apply to war-zones (Iraq/Afghanistan) AND they are part of US law since we are signatories (actually, treaties are the highest law, as per the Constitution). You have provided another false premise and once again displayed your ignorance of the law in an attempt to assert yourself as "in the know" because you have a couple of guard buddies.

The law is clear. All of these "grey areas" you describe are mythical legal phantom zones created by Alberto Gonzales and promulgated by Bushco. The Supreme Court, all of the JAGs on record, many former Federal Judges, recent British rulings on war crimes (who are also signatories), the majority of Democrats, 95% of DU, the Constitution of the United States, and the law of this land all disagree with you.

[vincent_vega_lives]

44. Regardless of how it sounds to you

Coercive interrogation is a methodical tactic applied with the purpose of obtaining valid intelligence, Not for the sake of "mistreating prisoners" for shits and giggles. BTW the military has always prohibited the use of cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment of POWs. This simply extends the Laws of Land Warfare (The US is a signatory to the Geneva convention but it is the LLW that translates it to the Military) to those not previously covered.

Coercive interrogation involves "the carrot" in the form emotional manipulation and gaining the trust of the detainee. But the carrot alone only works if the subject is a rabbit (so to speak). The "stick" has never been an option regarding POWs. That wasn't the case for "non recognized belligerents."

These are hardly legal "phantom zones", invented by the Bush administration. The two 1977 protocols attempted to fill in some of these mythical "grey areas" you refer to by addressing civil wars and wars of national liberation in order to better protect civilians. As the law currently stands there is now solid criteria for determining how long suspected terrorists detained during the course of operations should be held, for example.

http://www.crimesofwar.org/expert/genevaConventions/gc-intro.html

To pretend these "grey areas" you refer to are "mythical" has displayed your ignorance of the Geneva convention the law is based on.

[SammyWinstonJack]

38. Exactly why am I suppose to support these troops, again?

How can people do this to others? NO ONE could MAKE me do what these troops did, under any circumstance, guilty or not!

[Disturbed]

42. Article 147 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

The following is clear to me but not to Busholini. He wants "clarity". Translation: Legalize illegal activities and make them retro active to protect himself and all of those that practiced illegal methods of Interrogation.

Article 147 of the Fourth Geneva Convention defines war crimes as: "Willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including... willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, unlawful deportation or transfer or unlawful confinement of a protected person, compelling a protected person to serve in the forces of a hostile power, or willfully depriving a protected person of the rights of fair and regular trial, ...taking of hostages and extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly."

[lumberjack_jeff]

41. He was released?

The amnesty int'l page indicates that he's still in custody at Guantanamo. :shrug:

[EVDebs]

48. A wrongful imprisonment is how this whole thing leaked out--Dana Priest

Wrongful Imprisonment: Anatomy of a CIA Mistake
German Citizen Released After Months in 'Rendition'

By Dana Priest
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, December 4, 2005; Page A01

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/03/AR2005120301476.html

[leftchick]

53. His whole story here.....

He was released after four years at various US prisons and ending up at GITMO....

http://www.espacioblog.com/mydigest/post/2006/09/17/eliza-griswold-american-gulag

[lumberjack_jeff]

55. That's the most incredible story I've ever heard.

"When I was told I was going to be taken to the Americans, I was relieved. Please, take me to an American prison," he said. Under American justice, he believed, innocent men like him were sure to be released. That was more than four years ago.

"I told everybody that it was good the Americans were taking us." But the Pakistani guards said otherwise: "If you can escape, escape now. You're being taken to Kandahar."

The night before Abdullah was moved, a Pakistani officer snuck into his cell to take digital pictures and obtain phone numbers from prisoners, given the likelihood that the young men were about to disappear. It was only because of this officer's efforts that Abdullah's family learned of his arrest.

Amazing. A must read. Thanks!

[Jcrowley]

43. Bump

K&R

[vincent_vega_lives]

45. The Battle for Guantánamo - Read and Learn

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/17/magazine/17guantanamo.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

The Battle for Guantánamo

By TIM GOLDEN
Published: September 17, 2006
1. A Warning From Shaker Aamer

Paolo Pellegrin/Magnum, for The New York Times
Since the riot and suicides, guards at Guantánamo have clamped down a bit.

Col. Mike Bumgarner took over as the warden of Guantánamo Bay in April 2005. He had been hoping to be sent to Iraq; among senior officers of the Army’s military police corps, the job of commanding guards at the American detention camp in Cuba was considered not particularly challenging and somewhat risky to a career. He figured it would mean spending at least a year away from his family, managing the petty insurgencies of hundreds of angry, accused terrorists.

“Is this what I went to bed at night thinking about?” he would ask nearly a year later, as he whacked at mosquitoes on a muggy Cuban night. “No.”

Bumgarner, then 45, received his marching orders from the overall commander of the military’s joint task force at Guantánamo, Maj. Gen. Jay W. Hood. A few weeks earlier, General Hood dispatched the previous head of his guard operation and two other senior officers for fraternizing with female subordinates. He was known as a flinty, detail-oriented boss with low tolerance for bad judgment, and his instructions to the colonel were brief: He should keep the detainees and his guards safe, Bumgarner says Hood told him. He should prevent any escapes. He should also study the Third Geneva Convention, on the treatment of prisoners of war, and begin thinking about how to move Guantánamo more into line with its rules.

It had been three years since President Bush declared that the United States would not be bound by any part of the Geneva treaties in dealing with prisoners in the fight against terrorism. He ordered that American forces treat captives in ways “consistent” with the conventions but hadn’t explained what that meant. Now, Bumgarner thought, the mandate seemed to be shifting a little. He was being asked to get more specific.

In the cramped bungalow headquarters of his Joint Detention Operations Group at Guantánamo, Bumgarner had his operations officer look up the conventions on the Internet and print out a copy. After nearly 24 years as a military police officer, Bumgarner knew the document well. He thought it obvious that many of the rights would never apply to Guantánamo detainees. No one was going to allow the distribution of “musical instruments” to suspected terrorists, as the 1940’s-era conventions stipulated for the captured soldiers of another army. No one was going to pay the detainees a stipend to spend at a base canteen.

But the assignment was more complicated than just cutting and pasting where he could. On some level, Bumgarner thought, he was being asked to weigh how far the military should go to improve the lives of prisoners whom the president and his aides had labeled some of the most dangerous terrorists alive. Or, as the colonel put it to me during our first conversation at Guantánamo in March: “How do you deal with an individual whom the president of the United States and the secretary of defense have called the worst of the worst?”

More at link:

----------------------------------
EDIT: COPYRIGHT. PLEASE POST ONLY
4 OR 5 PARAGRAPHS FROM THE COPYRIGHTED
NEWS SOURCE PER DU RULES.

[deaniac21]

46. Some might construe what you have posted is a copyright

infringement.

[vincent_vega_lives]

50. I'll retract it

But a great read of what's really going on down at Gitmo. Besides it is no different than hitting the EMAIL button on the article, as the link and post includes the reference.

[deaniac21]

51. You can post a link but not more than 4 paragraphs.

[leftchick]

54. I am so impressed!

The NYTs has another great investigative piece to rival say.... The Washington Times in Pentagon Propaganda manure spreading. I am impressed I tell you! :rofl:

[vincent_vega_lives]

59. I am not surprised you consider this propaganda

manure spreading. Did you even read it? I doubt it. Anything that portrays a "black and white" issue as GREY and far more complicated than what people here seem to think is "propaganda" (that word is SO overused) of course.

A rather pathetic statement on your ability to comprehend the issues as they really are.

[scholarsOrAcademics]

47. Germans deal with collective guilt

What can be learned from the Good Germans of WWII? And the recent "proper language" movement? Being a bit German, I cannot ascribe to a feeling of inheritance of guilt from being a bit German, but I am weighted by the collective guilt of being a member by birth of the political and economic machinations of Good Americans. The lesson learned, so far, is somewhat along the lines of living in an asylum.

[alfredo]

49. bush no longer exist to me. he has been X'ed out of

my life.

[Danger Mouse]

52. Is this for real?

If so, :puke:
This country keeps sliding, wonder when we'll hit rock bottom?

[Judi Lynn]

56. After living through this outpouring of hatred and disrespect by Americans

with power over him, he will live out the rest of his days fully aware this is EXACTLY what _Bush's government wanted them to do. He will know many, many, many other people were treated this way, as well.

How could he NOT hate after this? How can he ever have a moment's peace, knowing how filthy people can get when their government encourages them?

I hope the lessons he got in life prior to being tortured will help him heal, and find meaning in life despite what has been done to destroy him.

[leftchick]

57. Judi Lynn, he actually sympathizes with his captors

In the story I read in Harpers about him (linked above) he actually feels a sort of kinship with some guards from GITMO. I would assume these were not his torturers, it was the people guarding him daily. He wanted to get a message to them through the author. He also said that they felt horrible about what they were doing to him.

This madness has to stop. :(

[Judi Lynn]

58. What sadness, knowing he is feeling compassion for his guards.

Reminds one of "Stockholm Syndrome," doesn't it?

Just last night, Wednesday, saw truly nasty Republican Rep. Steve Chabot, during their pitch to rewrite what rules we WILL observe concerning torture, claim he has been to Guantanamo twice, and he has to say that considering what things are like where these prisoners came from, they have much better nutrition now, have gained weight, they can pray 5 times a day, they have someone who has painted arrows on the floor everywhere which point what direction it is to Mecca, they get prayerbooks, and they are guaranteed eight full hours of sleep every day, and no one ever is allowed to wake them up to question them (contrary to ALL reports we have ever seen).

Now isn't THAT some evil baloney?

From your original link:

According to Abdullah al-Noaimi’s lawyers, the US government does not allege that Abdullah al-Noaimi has engaged in any acts of violence, supported any acts of violence, or "was even aware of any acts of violence", much less against US forces. The US government’s own interrogators appear to have concluded that he is "not a threat", yet he remains in the legal black hole of Guantánamo Bay.
(snip)

Sad, sad, sad.

http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/Pictures/Persons/036705/036705-191922.jpg

Another Republican professional liar