My Mother Asked Me How She Should Respond To "Nazi Appeaser!" Accusations

[Mister Ed]

My poor ol' Mom e-mailed me in distress after a recent social gathering in her neighborhood:

"Fox News parrots drive me nuts", she wrote. "I'm not smart enough to articulate an effective response when they say 'well, you are one of the people who would have thought it was ok not to go into war with the Nazis.' I can't stand it...and I'm getting a little scared that the Republicans will somehow pull it off in November".

So I dashed off this reply:

Mom,

Well, alright. If you really want my advice about how to deal with dittoheads parroting the current official Bushevik talking points ("people opposed to the Iraq War would have probably wanted to appease the Nazis!"), then here it is:

Tell 'em that the Nazis invaded and occupied other countries on fabricated pretexts, just as Bush has done. Tell 'em the Nazis lied to their own people about the reasons for going to war, just as Bush has done.

Tell 'em that the Nazis disregarded and overturned the laws of their own nation, just as Bush has done. Tell 'em the Nazis gained and held power by using fear to rally and unify the people, just as Bush has done. By characterizing all who opposed them as unpatriotic, or traitors - just as Bush has done. By inciting hatred against leftists and homosexuals, just as Bush has done.

Tell 'em the Nazis came to power through corrupt arrangements with corporate cronies, just has Bush has done. And by invoking the themes of religious virtue, just as Bush has done. Tell 'em the Nazis threw out all standards of humaneness in the name of national security, just as Bush is doing.

Tell 'em that you, as an innocent toddler in the 1930's, were powerless to change what was happening across the ocean - but, by God, you will not acquiesce to the same thing here and now, in your own beloved country. Ask them why they are appeasing, nay, supporting it here in the USA.

Their reaction will be emotional: "What?! Are you calling our president a Nazi?!". Speak calmly and soothingly: "Of course not. There are tremendous differences between George Bush and the Nazis. But what's got me worried are the similarities". Then walk them through the similarities again.

Just between you and me, Mom (this is too much for them to wrap their little heads around), I believe that I can guess the real reason Rove's talking points focus on fascism lately. He, Cheney, Grover Norquist and others understand fully that they are instituting fascism in the U.S. They would never use the "f" word, of course, because it has unsavory connotations. But a fascist state is what they're building, and they're well aware of it. To preempt any accusations to that effect, they've been flinging the label at anyone else they can. Those who oppose their war are characterized as would-be appeasers of fascism, when in fact they're opposing fascism. Islamic terrorists are called "fascists", when they're anything but. The terrorists are utterly evil, but they're not working to bring about fascist government. They want a theocracy.

And Mom, you damn well oughta be afraid of what might happen between now and November. These Machiavellians are not going to just lose an election, shrug their shoulders, and say, "Oh well. Guess the people have spoken".

[madmusic]

1. Simple answer...

How come bin Laden is still making movies?

[Monkeyman]

2. Here a little

$8.4 Billion per month
$275 Million per week
$11.5 Million per day
Where is the WMD's
Where is the link to bin-Laden
How much progress has happen in Iraq
2867 dead
over 20,000 wounded for stay the course
When will our troops come home now the Iraq has taken over the military
Why are we sending troops back to Iraq with mental problems on meds.
Bring up 9/11 Commission report
The Senate intell report

[Marr]

3. Chamberlain was a conservative.

He ignored Hitler's crimes because he thought Hitler would be god for bidness.

Now who does that sound like? A Democrat, or a Republican?

[Joe Chi Minh]

46. Bingo!

[muntrv]

4. Unlike Iraq, the Nazis actually attacked us.

[raccoon]

25. Go review your history. The US entered WWII after Pearl Harbor

was attacked by the Japanese. The US declared war on Japan. Nazi Germany then declared war on the US.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

27. Well, an OFFICIAL declaration of war is as "good" as an attack.

Which is another good argument if some idiot says "but Germany didn't attack us either, Japan did. Do you imply we should have left Germany alone?"

[raccoon]

29. Not the same thing at all. Sounds like something the junta would say. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

31. I mean FOR THE PURPOSE OF GOING TO WAS AGAINST A COUNTRY.

The point is, neither of the two situations (being attacked or having an official declaration of war against one's country) happened with the US vis-a-vis Iraq. Sheesh.

[muntrv]

48. Declaration of war against the U.S. is justification for going to war.

[Kurovski]

5. K&R for some excellent talking points.

[Subdivisions]

12. Ditto. Kick!

[wellstone dem]

6. I love your mom,

and my 77 year old mom and 86 year old dad who share a fear for their country and their grandchildren.

[Hawkowl]

7. outstanding!

[Imagevision]

8. Rove has game plan for elections - Do the Dems have a plan?

Rove would do anything to succeed - I believe the Dems are using proper rules and simply hoping for the best! There is something to the ols adage; "you have to fight fire with fire" or a flame thrower at least!

[SeattleGirl]

11. But Rove's plan is tied into the voting machines, in part.

And since ES&S and Diebold are firmly in the Repuke's pockets, that one will be a bit hard to fight against, unless we all fight for voter verified paper ballots.

[yellowdogmi]

49. Then what can we du to them?

Just a question that came to mind. Please pm me with any suggestions.

[lectrobyte]

9. Thoughtful and reasoned, thanks for posting. I always like advice on

how to discuss issues without things breaking down into "Republicans Suck!" "No, Democrats Suck!" as they do too often to me in real life.

[glitch]

10. She should tell them we've been appeasing bushco long enough but that ends

this November.

[pitohui]

13. are people really saying that to her?

she should not tolerate being shoved around like that, if someone accused me of being a nazi appeaser, i would end the friendship without another word or at most a comment like, "this friendship/relationship is done, i do not tolerate being lumped in with the nazis, that is unacceptable bullying and name-calling" -- and then just walk out and don't be enticed into walking back

not ever

block the name-caller's email, don't take their calls, don't socialize with them

and every time a mutual friend asks why, be sure to let them know why, that this person was bullying you and calling you a nazi

your mom doesn't have to be pushed around like that, is she being bullied because of her age, gender, size, all of the above? in her shoes, i would make it known that i simply don't have to tolerate bullies period end of sentence

you see, it really doesn't matter all the great arguments she could make, it isn't about her participating in a discussion, it's about her feeling obliged to continue a "dialogue" in a situation where she is being bullied, it is simply unacceptable in american society to tell someone to their face that they are a nazi or nazi appeaser, the person doing that is beyond the pale of etiquette and should be cut off from the pleasure of your mom's society

if it is a boss or supervisor doing this, then she needs to be looking for another job, seriously, because taking advantage of power to bully and call "nazi" is pure evil and symptom of deeper issues, but i appreciate she can't talk back to the bully in this position, in that case, she should simply say that it's inappropriate to continue discussing politics in the work place

[kdpeters]

14. I never do this, but "kicked, recommended" and printed, gosh darnit!!

By God, I'll have this post memorized before the weekend. 1000 thanks!!!

[Synnical]

15. I wish my mom was articulate enough to ask such questions

She was born in 1935, but, alas, is fading, quickly. I miss my mom - that is, the woman who raised me. 'Cause she is no longer the same woman.

Thanks for posting this.

-Cindy in Fort Lauderdale

[AndyTiedye]

16. The Similarities Are Most Disturbing

google "Reichstag Fire"

[vickitulsa]

37. Excellent!

And then if Mom's a PC user, send her this link:

http://home.comcast.net/~bramante/GeorgeHitler/Lnk_WarArt.htm


If she's not (and my own mom would panic if I tried to teach her to use a computer), perhaps someone she knows whom she visits has one and could show her the image of just who is similar to the Nazis....

[peanutbrittle]

17. Short and sweet.....

"I don't appease the Nazi's honey, and for this I may end up in a FEMA concentration camp"

[flyarm]

18. tell her...

it is not she who had relatives and made their fortune , that financed Hitler..it was pissy pants grandpa who committed treason to this nation and the world by financing Hitler

tell her it was Karl Roves grandpa that built the first concentration camp for Hitler and designed the gas that killed 12 million people ..not she ..

tell her it was Arnuld's dad who was a SS officer

tell her it was the pope who was a brown shirt..not she..

so tell her if they want to make Nazi referneces they should start with the realatives of those who committed those heinous crimes against humanity..and then look at the crimes this cabal is committing on humanity..

say if the shoe fits ..it fits more with this administration and not herself!

and send her a hug for me!!

fly


BUSH-NAZI LINK CONFIRMED -Prescott Bush, the grandfather of ...
Karl Rove's grandfather allegedly helped run the Nazi Party, and helped build the Birkenau Death Camp. Arnold Schwarzenegger's Austrian father volunteered ...

http://www.geocities.com/bushfamilynazis/


http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/81132/index.php
According to reliable sources, as well as our own Al Martin Raw.com investigation, Karl Rove is, in fact, the grandson of Karl Heinz Roverer, the gauleiter of Mecklenburg, who was also a partner and senior engineer of Roverer Sud-Deutche Ingenieurbüro AG. They built Birchenau, the concentration camp in Nazi Germany.

[Pachamama]

19. Tell her to say "I didn't know I was appeasing you!"

:hi:

[Minnesota_Lib]

20. Here is a list I compiled of the most influential WWII appeasers

Feel free to send it to her.


UNITED KINGDOM:

STANLEY BALDWIN--Conservative Party, British P.M 1935 to 1937: set the policy of appeasement that Chamberlain later followed; did nothing about German rearmament; did nothing when Hitler invaded the Rhineland; was sympathetic to the fascists in the Spanish Civil War in 1936 – he persuaded 27 countries to sign a Non-Intervention Pact and then stood by and watched as Hitler and Mussolini ignored it and sent military support to Franco; openly said that he would not go to war with Hitler and Mussolini. allowed his appointed secretary, the right-wing, pro-fascist Lord Halifax not only to consort with the Nazis but to then to also propagandize his pro-Nazi message to the British public.

NEVILLE CHAMERLAIN--Conservative Party, British P.M. 1938-1940: supported the fascist Franco; sympathized with Nazi Germany; historically considered the major European force for appeasement; assisted the French right-wing, led by Henri-Philippe Petain and the French right-wing press, in the ouster of their leftist, antifascist, pro-intervention P.M. Leon Blum; signed the Munich Agreement with Hitler and Mussolini; appointed the infamous pro-Nazi Lord Halifax to the vitally important office of Foreign Secretary, a move that allowed Hallifax a wider and more respected stage from which to propagandize for the Nazis.

LORD HALIFAX--British War Secretary and leader of the House of Lords 1935-38, Foreign Secretary, 1938-40: influential right-wing, anti-semitic, pro-fascist admirer of Hitler; became the leading British advocate for appeasement after his famous 1937 meeting with Hitler; “He (Halifax) told me he liked all the Nazi leaders, even Goebbels, and he was much impressed, interested and amused by the visit. He thinks the regime absolutely fantastic."—Halifax confidant Henry Cannon.


FRANCE:

EDOUARD DALADIER--Radical Party (left of center moderate): French P.M. 1933, 1934, 1938-1940: Initially supported Spanish antifascists but under pressure from right-wing members of his government and British P.M. Baldwin began to advocate a policy of neutrality; returned to power after leftist P.M. Leon Blum, who advocated ending France’s non-interventionist policy, was forced out of office by a coalition led by France’s pro-fascist, right-wing press and right-wing politicians such as Henri-Philippe Petain, and aided by the behind-the-scenes support of conservative British P.M. Neville Chamberlain and the British Foreign Office; adopted a policy of full appeasement when he joined Chamberlain in signing the Munich Agreement with Hitler and Mussolini.

HENRI-PHILIPPE PETAIN—Assisted by Chamberlain and the right-wing press, Petain was a leader of the movement to bring down left-wing, anti-fascist P.M. Blum. After Germany overran France, Petain was rewarded by being named P.M of the newly formed right-wing Vichy government. After the war, Petain was found guilty of treason and died in prison in 1951.


SPAIN:

A bunch of international liberals were there fighting the fascists and giving up their lives in the name of freedom while the right-wingers stayed safely at home and vocally and financially supported Franco..


UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:

• Influential right-wing industrialists and financers such as Irenee du Pont, Prescott Bush and the virulently anti-semitic Henry Ford not only fought publicly to keep America from joining the war against Germany, they actually helped finance Hitler’s war machine..

• The conservative press--led by Henry Luce (who applauded Mussolini’s invasion of Ethiopia)--worked to influence public opinion in favor of isolationism.

• American hero and right-winger Charles Lindbergh admired the "virility" and "dictatorial direction" of Nazi Germany so much so that he used his substantial influence as a vocal Nazi propagandist.

• The Senate--led by Republican Gerald P. Nye--was determined to remain isolated from the European conflict. Nye and his colleagues spearheaded the Neutrality Act of 1935.

• William Dudley Pelley mobilized like-minded right-wing conservatives into a pro-Nazi legion he called the Silver Shirts and which others referred to as the "Christian American Patriots". By July 1938, he had mailed out 3.5 tons of pro-Nazi, anti-semitic propaganda. After the U.S. joined the war, Pelley was jailed for sedition.

• The godfather of right-wing hate radio, Father Charles Coughlin used his radio show and magazine to stir-up anti-semitic, pro-Nazi sentiment in the U.S.


***Heck, involvement in the war was inevitable, but it looks as if it wasn’t for Democrats and liberals like Franklin Roosevelt—and the bombing of Pearl Harbor by an ally of Germany--we may well have ended up fighting on the wrong side.

[Hubert Flottz]

21. Tell her it turns out that the UN aren't "Nazi Appeasers" either!

Or at least they didn't seem to want to appease the one who ranted before them yesterday. TRUST Bush? Not many left on earth are as silly as the PNAC/Nazi appeasers.

[NewJeffCT]

22. The Republicans are the appeasers - see my LTTE here.

Feel free to steal some ideas if you think it doesn't suck too badly:

>>>
In a recent speech, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld
compared the nearly two-thirds of Americans who oppose
our occupation of Iraq to those who appeased Hitler
before World War 2. Soon after, President Bush also
invoked memories of Hitler and the Nazis. If you look
at reality, however, it is neoconservatives like Bush,
Rumsfeld, Cheney and Lieberman that are truly the
appeasers of terrorists.

First, these neoconservatives ignored all the pre 9/11
warnings about Al-Qaeda to focus on the Star Wars
boondoggle. Then, they allowed Osama bin Laden to
escape after they had him surrounded at Tora Bora.
Later, in compliance with Osama’s wishes, we removed
our troops from Saudi Arabia, and then kowtowed to
Kim Jong-Il by removing troops from the Korean
Demilitarized Zone. After that, Team Bush outed
undercover agents Valerie Plame and Muhammad Naeem
Noor Khan for partisan political purposes, while the
CIA group assigned to catch bin Laden was quietly
disbanded late last year.

Our invasion and disastrous occupation of Iraq has
been icing on the cake for bin Laden, as it has been a
recruiting bonanza for Al-Qaeda, while simultaneously
bankrupting our treasury and giving our international
reputation a black eye. The Civil War in Iraq is also
allowing the Taliban to regenerate in Afghanistan, as
our military is stretched too thin to help out in both
places. Our ally, Pakistan, recently surrendered
territory to the Taliban.

Combined with Homeland Security initiatives like
cutting funds for port security, explosives detection
equipment, first responders and the CDC, one would be
hard pressed to call the actions of the White House
anything other than appeasement, unless you called it
aiding and abetting.

While Bush and Rumsfeld spoke of appeasing Hitler, it
might be better if we looked inward during that time
to American shores for a more accurate comparison. In
the 1930s, many of that era’s conservatives,
Republicans and business elites advocated alliance
with Hitler and Mussolini. Some, like Prescott Bush,
even did extensive business with Hitler for years, not
stopping until 1942. Now, the present day Bush family
has long-standing business ties to the bin Laden
family. Abetted by his rubber-stamp Republican
Congress, the reality is that Bush is just following
the long-established Republican policy of appeasing
tyrants and enriching terrorists.
<<<

[Lerkfish]

23. say, well, there ARE americans who literally appeased the nazis, like

Bush's grandfather. But they were mainly conservative capitalists whom we today call republicans.

[raccoon]

24. You rock! Great post. This one is a keeper. K&R. nt

[wicket]

28. Agreed!

:kick:

[izzybeans]

26. The Nazi appeasers were supporters of a regime that undermined

a struggling democracy. Most of them were rightwing citizens harboring fears of anyone different than them, who were enemies of the grand city on the hill, Germany. The same arrogant narcissim the USofA harbors of itself. External appeasers were mostly businessmen who only cared about the dollar. Industrialists of WWII are the contracters of the GulfWar II. For every Grandpa Bush there is a Dick Cheney making millions on the dead.

If there is similar appeasement it is in supporting a regime that undermines our democracy by passing the patriot act, break the FISA laws, advocate torture, and commit crimes of aggression by invading disarmed countries. But those are just the republican base. Other appeasers cower in fear of false patriotism and think we haven't already lost our illegal war,and so they say "stay the course" or call for more troops to engage in illegal activities. Still others make billions off of the torture and killing of innocent civilians. All of them cowards afraid of doing what is just and right.

There is only one group in this country that resembles the nazi's and it is not the liberals who take a moral stand against war crimes and other crimes against humanity. Nazi's tortured, murdered, and invaded to a far greater extent than the Bush Regime has as of yet. But Bush has yet to have his France and Iran is in his sights. Appease him on Iran and enable the continuing rise of fascism in this country. Again a coward appeases this march toward fascism. A patriot dissents from the terror of a tyrannical executive.

[exlrrp]

30. Tell them about Prescott BUsh who made money arming the Nazis

Yes, tell them about George BUsh's grandpa who owned 6 compannies that helped re-arm Germany during the 1930s.
And then post the picture of Rummy shaking hands with Saddam Hussein--there is no better statement

[FoxOnTheRun]

45. that's the best thing _---_--_-

How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power

Rumours of a link between the US first family and the Nazi war machine have circulated for decades. Now the Guardian can reveal how repercussions of events that culminated in action under the Trading with the Enemy Act are still being felt by today's president

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html

[indepat]

32. Bravo: bookmarked

[LeftishBrit]

33. It might be worth pointing out...

that the idea peddled by the right-wingers that there is something good in supporting a leader at all costs, and that dissent 'encourages terrorism', is just the sort of thing that enabled Nazism and Fascism in the first place.

And that the leaders who did most to defeat it included a liberal pinko Democrat called FDR and an extremely rebellious, 'disloyal' Conservative called Churchill.

[vickitulsa]

39. Hitler in fact put Liberals on his list of "undesirables" right along with

Jews
Poles
Homosexuals
Mentally Ill
Intellectuals
Gypsies (Roma)

Then he handed that list to the Gestapo and SS so they knew which groups they had a free hand to crush.

"Liberals," in fact, were actually listed THIRD in that grouping, IIRC what I saw on the document the History Channel showed in a recent two-parter on the Gestapo.

Why would Hitler decide to destroy "Liberals" if we liberals weren't a THREAT to him rather than appeasers?

[elehhhhna]

34. K&R, Mister. Welcome! & say Hi to your Mom for us.

[ktlyon]

35. don't forget the republicans were the appeasers in hitler's day

;-)

[Darth_Kitten]

36. Nazis were far right wing........

nothing to do with liberalism, and that just ANNOYS the hell out of them. :D

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

38. Just ask them "Why Iraq?"

With Iran and North Korea being larger, more immediate threats? And Egypt and Saudia Arabia harboring larger populations of Muslim Extremists?

It would be more akin to the US going to war with a non-aligned country after Pearl Harbor than going to war with Germany.

[hfojvt]

40. is there a huge difference between fascism and a theocracy?

They both are totalitarian states, and I am not sure if they related peacefully with neighboring countries. I am not sure if Sharia would rule in a theocracy of if a fuehrer or collective fuehrer would.

[vickitulsa]

41. I really love your reply to your mom.

Like others here, I'm going to save it and add to my list of memorized points of similarity between *&Co and Hitler's Nazi regime.

I've been researching this very topic lately and just today found this interesting site:

http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler.html

The fellow who put this site together collected and documented a long list of sources where people and organizations from Scott Ritter to Dr. Norman Livergood, from Human Rights Action to Linda Rondstadt have made the Bu$h=Hitler allusion. He not only provides the actual quotes or other types of allusions (such as cartoons), he went so far as to provide descriptive information on the source making the claim. That's a big help for those of us who want to know just who it is making such claims and what credentials or authority they might have for doing so.

Interesting that the website was apparently begun in 2003, when quite a few people first started (publicly) comparing the Chimperor to Hitler, and the latest update of the website was in 2005. Probably the webmaster felt there was no need to update it further since so many good items had already been documented, with all the historical references there.

But I'd like to see an update anyway just because there have been a lot more folks of many different stripes come around to see in the last year what was not quite as clear to many before then.

[warrens]

42. The REPUKES opposed the war against Germany

Until Dec. 6, 1941, Roosevelt could not have gotten a declaration of war out of Congress, because the Repukes were violently against it, and secretly pro-Nazi and anti-Soviet.

[bvar22]

43. The DEMOCRATS WON the WAR against the NAZIS...

...in LESS time than the REPUBLICANS have been looking for OSAMA.

[smoogatz]

44. I've got a shorter answer: three words, starting with "go"

and ending with "yourself." Mom can tell 'em she's quoting Dick Cheney. But seriously, if Dems are appeasing the Nazis, why is Bush letting Hitler (aka bin Laden) run around scot-free in Pakistan? If we're in an existential battle for the very survival of Western civilization, shouldn't Job fucking One be to capture or kill the mastermind of the new Pearl Harbor (9/11)? Bush JUST SAID bin Laden's "not a high priority." Tell your Mom to ask her idiot Repuke friends to please explain why catching Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo and the Devil himself all rolled into one is not a "high priority."

[rhiannon55]

47. Great letter

<<Their reaction will be emotional: "What?! Are you calling our president a Nazi?!". Speak calmly and soothingly: "Of course not. There are tremendous differences between George Bush and the Nazis. But what's got me worried are the similarities". Then walk them through the similarities again.>>

Excellent advice! We get nowhere with these people by making polarizing statements (even if we think them to be true).


Hugs to your mom! :hug: