How bad is it? It's 2006 and we are discussing how to torture? In America?

[deacon]

How far has this administration brought us down? We are not animals and he shouldn't represent us as animals. This discussion of torture and how or if we torture in 2006, in America is madness.

This is not moving America forward, this is backsliding. All congressional leaders with any ounce of integrity left, need to be part of neutralizing and putting and end to this craziness.

WE don't torture? Then stop fighting for it. Period.

[fasttense]

1. But the corporations and propaganda machines are in full swing.

They are lowering the prices and blasting how great our dear leader is on the corporate TVs and radios. The government is so corrupt that I'm not sure anything but a revolution will change this mess.

[magellan]

2. It is madness, the madness of King George

And all the King's men.

Things seem quite bleak to me now for just the reason you state: we're actually discussing TORTURE, instead of seeing Congressional leaders marching out and spitting nails at every camera, in shame and disgust and fury.

Well, all right, perhaps spitting nails at reporters wouldn't be very statesman like. But you know what I mean. This isn't a time for polite discourse!

My sense is there's precious little integrity left in Washington, and that scares me to death.

[BlueJazz]

3. You know...This whole Torture thing is typical of the Republican.....

...or right-wing mind-set.
I mean, (as we all know)...one of the traits to being a Republican is seeing the world in Black and White...Good and evil. Most Democrats are capable of seeing life in colors and adapting their actions to fit the situation.
When Democrats read the rules of the Geneva convention, they understand most of it and understand the meaning (s).
Republicans have to have specific actions "laid-out" or they don't understand the intent of the rules.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is, Democrats don't have to have a specific route to insure correct action. They have learned through life's experiences what the "Line" is regarding torture.

In Short...Republicans have to ask: "Well...is breaking a finger torture? (Yes...You Idiot).

[Chipper Chat]

4. Hard to believe a "civilized" nation like the USA does this:

Modern waterboarding
Main article: water cure

The modern practice of waterboarding, characterized in 2005 by former CIA director PORTER GOSS as a "professional interrogation technique"<1>, involves tying the victim to a board with the head lower than the feet so that he or she is unable to move. A piece of cloth is held tightly over the face, and water is poured onto the cloth. Breathing is extremely difficult and the victim will be in fear of imminent death by asphyxiation. However, it is relatively difficult to aspirate a large amount of water since the lungs are higher than the mouth, and the victim is unlikely to actually die if this is done by skilled practitioners. Waterboarding may be used by captors who wish to impose anguish without leaving marks on their victims as evidence. Journalists Brian Ross and Richard Esposito described the CIA's waterboarding technique as follows:

The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt. According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last over two minutes before begging to confess. "The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law," said John Sifton of Human Rights Watch.<2>

In the United States, military personnel are taught this technique, ostensibly to demonstrate how to resist enemy interrogations in the event of capture. According to Salon.com, SERE instructors shared their torture techniques with interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay detainment camp.<3>

snip

On September 8, 2006, Matt Lauer conducted an interview with President GEORGE W BUSH in the oval office in which the legality and techniques of the recently admitted CIA secret prisons were questioned. Waterboarding, as one technique used by these prisons, was discussed.

Matt Lauer: “I don’t want to let this 'within the law issue' slip though. I mean, if, in fact, there was water boarding used with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and for the viewers, that’s basically when you strap someone to a board and you make them feel as if they’re going to drown by putting them underwater, if that was legal and within the law, why couldn’t you do it at Guantanamo? Why did you have to go to a secret location around the world?”

President Bush: “I’m not going to talk about techniques. And, I’m not going explain to the enemy what we’re doing. All I’m telling you is that you’ve asked me whether or not we’re doing things to protect the American people, and I want the American people to know we are doing so.”<7>

[galileo3000]

5. Don't despair or give up hope

I saw President Clinton on the Today Show this morning and he was working with Laura Bush to bring fresh water to Africa. It made me proud to be an American.

[acmejack]

7. Easy to say, hard to do.

I lose hope by the day. I have lost all pride in being an American. I realized why people wanted "Yankees to go home" thirty years ago when I saw what "Ugly Americans" were. when I was in the service. But my God, this is beyond the pale, not are we financially bankrupt, but for all our pious posturing, morally as well. I want to puke.

[acmejack]

6. We have regressed a long way in a half a century.

I was certainly taught differently and I was educated in DoD schools.

[GOPBasher]

8. And we're still debating whether religion should be taught as science. n/t