Rangel: An attack on (CHIMPY) is an attack on all Americans...

[jefferson_dem]

REP. RANGEL BLASTS CHAVEZ: DON'T COME TO MY COUNTRY AND ATTACK MY PRESIDENT...

'You do not come into my country, my congressional district, and you do not condemn my president. If there is any criticism of President Bush, it should be restricted to Americans, whether they voted for him or not. I just want to make it abundantly clear to Hugo Chavez or any other president, but do not come to the United States and think because we have problems with our president that any foreigner can come to our country and not think that Americans do not feel offended when you offend our Chief of State'...

VIDEO LINK -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX1lBOxoJeU

[Moochy]

1. Oh brother

Nationalism is a poison... Thanks Rangel.

[oncall247]

214. Rangel is only talking about other presidents or heads of state.

Remember that. Charlie is really brilliant. He's not talking about any citizen coming to the US and criticizing Bush, just other heads of state.

[xchrom]

2. then tell your president to stop trying to overthrow

legitimately elected governments.

[DireStrike]

3. uh... what?

thats the most back-asswards thing I've heard in a while.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Maybe...

he didn't read the whole thing?

:shrug:

[Moochy]

10. Oh Like every other Chavez Basher around here ?

:patriot:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. ...

:thumbsdown:

[NNN0LHI]

5. He thinks the draft would be a fine idea too

Whats that tell you?

Don

[OhioChick]

24. Good Point. n/t

[RandiRhodesArchives]

123. that he needs to switch parties!

and he can take Zell LIEbushlover with him too!

[nini]

233. you know why he says that don't you?

because he wants the rich right wingers to put up their own. It's all talk to get them pulled into the light of their hypocrisy.

[malaise]

6. Attack?

How is calling him the devil an attack. Doesn't Bushco call people terrorists with no evidence. Bush is the fugging anti-christ.

Charlie knows a Dem backlash is coming for Chavez speaking at a Baptist Church in Harlem.

Edit - add.

[ananda]

7. Umm, I didn't feel attacked..

.. I felt validated.

Chavez rocks!

[OneBlueSky]

8. when that president represents an immediate threat to world peace . . .

and, indeed, to the survival of humanity and of the planet itself, I'd say that criticism is quite appropriate -- anytime, any place, and by anyone . . .

[greenman3610]

11. I don't agree with it, but it's politically astute

my own personal opinion is that no one
would have dared this kind of disrespect
for any previous president. It's a measure of
how Bush has trashed America's world
image that this could be tolerated, much less
applauded, as it was the other day.




on a lighter note, Chavez's reference to the
lingering "odor of sulphur" from the "Devil"
made for some pretty good fart jokes on
Steph Miller's show.

[Generic Other]

12. Evil translates into many languages.

Fuck ALL BUsh apologists. I am not offended by the goddamn truth.

[feduppuke]

Here

Is the link......

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ny15_rangel/CBRStatementChavezUNspeech09212006.html

Maybe it's the long way of saying, "Hey! He can't do that to our pledges." "Yeah! Only WE can do that to our pledges!" :)

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

31. Bullshit.

Charlie Rangel expressed his opinion. He's a good guy, and you may disagree with him, but I find your slurs against him disgusting. Reflects on who you are. Ugh.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[onenote]

163. spoken like a true progressive

:sarcasm:

[Rex]

184. Zing!!

:rofl:

[Binka]

237. Oh Carlos Whoops I Mean Onenote

Sorry. :sarcasm:

[geek tragedy]

54. Charlie Rangel has done more in his sleep for progressive

causes than everyone in this thread multiplied by ten in their entire lives.

[Rex]

60. Well then he can go and goosestep with his new best friend

George Bush. I hear Lieberman was a great progressive at one time and pissed his whole career away due to a kiss by the Devil.

[leftchick]

63. well said

once a progressive not always a progressive. And since when do progressives call for a draft like Rangel?

[Moochy]

71. Wasnt his call for the draft a kind of "dare"

Sort of playing chicken with the pResident?

Also I think I recall the objections to the current state of the all-volunteer army being that we already had a de-facto draft with the stop-losses and national guard units being called up repeatedly.

[leftchick]

121. sadly no. Mr. rangel is dead serious

mr. rangel has an actual bill in congress for a draft. Very progressive of him isn't it?...

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
February 14, 2006 Contact: George Dalley
[phone]

RANGEL REINTRODUCES DRAFT BILL
WASHINGTON - Lawmaker Says Volunteer Military May be Overwhelmed by Military Challenges in Iran, North Korea and Syria requiring more troops who will have to be drafted

Congressman Charles Rangel today introduced new legislation to reinstate the military draft that will include draftees up to 42 years of age.

"Every day that the military option is on the table, as declared by the President in his State of the Union address, in Iran, North Korea, and Syria, reinstatement of the military draft is an option that must also be considered, whether we like it or not," Congressman Rangel said. "If the military is already having trouble getting the recruits they need, what can we do to fill the ranks if the war spreads from Iraq to other countries? We may have no other choice but a draft."

The bill would mandate military service for men and women between the ages of 18 and 42. Deferments would be allowed only for completion of high school up to the age of 20, and for reasons of health, conscience or religious belief. Recruits not needed by the military in any given year would be required to perform some national civilian service.

"My bill conforms to the age standards that have been set by the Army itself," Congressman Rangel said, referring to the Army's recent announcement raising the top age for Army volunteers from 39 to 42. "With volunteers now being accepted up to the age of 42, it makes sense to cap the age of draftees at 42," Congressman Rangel said.


http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ny15_rangel/CBRStatementonDraft02142006.html

[NYCGirl]

138. If there were a draft, the support for rushing into a ground war would be

gone. That's Rangel's point.

[Totallybushed]

212. Yet a draft,

gives limitless troops to power-mad despots like LBJ. Without a draft, there would have been no "Vietnam".

Rangel is dead wrong on this point.

[pinto]

247. (OT) You're off about LBJ. Think Voting Rights Act, Medicare,

the Great Society programs, however flawed some were.

Tagging him with VietNam is shortsighted, imho, overall. It did him in, though. That's a fact.

[Spearman87]

139. In fairness, he was trying to even the playing field

He said that if the children of the Rich, ie, Cheney's kids and Jenna and Laura Bush, had to go fight in these wars, they wouldn't be so quick to send the kids of the poor to die

[Moochy]

164. That was my impression at the time as well

[AZBlue]

240. Mine also. Knee-jerk reactions prevent some from thinking things through

and seeing the subtle logic and wisdom.

*sigh*

[bvar22]

250. Calling for a DRAFT was indeed PROGRESSIVE,

and I support Rangel's call for a draft. The RICH should do their FAIR SHARE...fighting WARS AND Paying TAXES!!!

HOWEVER, I am outraged hew would waste his time defending bush* and helping the CorpoMedia FRAME the entire bush* debacle aroung a lighter side comment made by Chavez!....BAD CHARLEY!!! Go stand in the corner!!!

While Rangel was mugging for the cameras, and helping the Republicans divert attention, the REPUBLICANS passed the TORTURE LEGISLATION the bush* DEMANDED.

What did Rangel say about the Republicans changing the official US Policy against torture?

What did ANY Democrat say about the new Torture Legislation?
But OOOOOHHH!!!! Chavez called bush* a "devil"... OOOOOHHHHHH!!!!!

Charley, and ALL the DEMOCRATS dropped the ball this week!

[leftchick]

179. I don't care what he was trying to do

putting a bill for a draft in congress is insane by any measure.

[Rex]

186. But but but, he has a D next to his name!

:sarcasm:

[leftchick]

188. the vast majority of Ds

seem to behaving like Rs these days. This is insane! :(

[Rex]

206. Now stop that! You cannot call the Ds, Rs! It will bring about our

destruction! Dogs and cats will start living together! Frogs will fall from the sky!

My personal opinion is that most in Congress have sold We the People out for a lousy buck.

Sad what people will do for money. :(

[Spearman87]

194. Think about it this way: The French are pretty slow

....to agree to any kind of military action, and have generally opposed Bush's adventures. Since they got out of their own Vietnam entanglement, and became a more socially oriented society, that’s been their typical stance. But until just a few years ago—in the 90s--they had MANDATORY military service: Not just a draft, Every man had to serve. When every family is directly affected, I think it makes a country a bit more responsible in its war decisions. When you think of the draft in this country, you think of Vietnam and all the notorious deferments. At the time I heard him speak at least, Rangle I think was looking for a system with more universal participation, like the French. I don't think that's unreasonable for him to bring it up; As an alternative to the current situation, I would have a hard time calling that an insane option.

[Spearman87]

207. Hey! How about this compromise!

How about Mandatory military service for all combat-age relatives of the administration that starts military action, and same for any congress that approves such action or declares war.

I think that would serve the same purpose :)

[Rex]

75. Thanks, some people just cannot live outside a black and white

world and boy do they show it here.

[geek tragedy]

69. Okay, this place has become a looney bin.

Charlie Rangel goose-stepping?

Dear lord, sometimes I wonder what planet some DU'ers are on.

[Rex]

72. Same here.

I guess you didn't read the OP.

[BIG Sean]

197. 100% Correct!

I can not believe the morons on here comparing him to Zell.

[KaptBunnyPants]

224. Then he should spend more time sleeping.

And less time defending Bush.

[cigsandcoffee]

223. It's a brilliant move.

Do you want Dems to win the midterm elections or not? The last thing we need is moderate Americans rallying around the President because a foreign demagogue is taking shots at him and our country in New York.

The GOP could have made a heyday with this, but Rangel stopped them cold. Well done, DNC and Dem leadership.

[Tyler Durden]

14. He wasn't INSIDE the country.

When Chavez spoke to the UN, he wasn't technically on United States soil. The UN has extraterritoriality.

And as to criticism: when the Pig Bush stops his ILLEGAL MILITARY ADVENTURES, THEN and only THEN can Rangel make that statement.

[El Zopilote]

41. Rangel traidor?

What is U.S. Congressman Charles Rangél doing? Is he betraying the Democratic Party? He's bashing Hugo Chavez and defending Bush. It is very disturbing and alarming to see a Democrat, especially a monority, to critize an international Hispanic leader and ally by expressing sympathy for Bush and his racist Republicans. Has Mr. Rangél gone loco? Has he turned into a rogue Democrat? Is he a traitor? Hopefully Mr. Rangél has an ulterior motive. But as Democrats we must be careful not to create the slightest impression that our strong united coalition has a crack in it. I consider all minorities (African-Americans, Hispanics of course, Muslims, American Indians and all to be my brothers in the cause of solidarity). We must remain united. Solidarity is the key to victory. We do not need dissent.

[Name removed]

238. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[undeterred]

15. Well maybe the United Nations should move to a friendlier country

instead of one that is ruled by a raving lunatic dictator.

[otohara]

30. UN Is Considered International Territory and....

In the 1960s new General Assembly and Secretariat buildings were built in New York, but there are major agencies located in Geneva, Switzerland and elsewhere.http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=United_Nations

Yes....I think you're right, next time, this should be held in friendlier Geneva.

[Bad Penny]

129. Bush doesn't like conventions in Geneva

[treestar]

152. ROTLF at that graphic! Good one!

[otohara]

57. Chavez Said The Same Thing....He Proposed....

And maybe we have to change location. Maybe we have to put the United Nations somewhere else; maybe a city of the south. We've proposed Venezuela.

Chavez entire speech here:
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0920-22.htm

[Freddie Stubbs]

16. I wonder what Chavez's new friend will say about this?

[NNN0LHI]

19. That is proof that Muslims and Christians can get along just dandy

The cat is out of the bag.

Don

[Rex]

21. Very nice.

Swing that hammer!

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. Does Ahmadinejad promote a religion of peace?

:shrug:

[Rex]

39. Why don't you ask the Pope.

:eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. Daaaamn, boyyyy!

[Freddie Stubbs]

51. When has the Pope encouraged violence?

:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

56. When he called a billion people evil and inhuman.

[Freddie Stubbs]

61. Who did he call inhuman?

Can you provide the quote?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

62. muslims.

But I'm sure you're already aware of the statements.

[Freddie Stubbs]

73. Can you please provide the quote where he calls muslims inhuman or

advocates violence?

I'm not aware of those statements. If they are so well known, you should not have any trouble providing them. ;)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

74. But you are aware of them.

You're just pretending you're not.

[Rex]

78. He must have missed the huge apology from the Pope.

I could have sworn Foxnews showed it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

81. He apologized for advocating violence?

:shrug:

[Rex]

84. Yes.

Why else would he apologize? :shrug:

[Freddie Stubbs]

86. People say a lot of things that they need to take back

Can you provide a link to him advocating violence? :shrug:

[Rex]

89. Really? You mean like the Pope?

:shrug:

[Freddie Stubbs]

105. But they don't all advocate violence against groups of people

[Rex]

111. Well then he should have never apologized if he really was

sincere about not wanting to incite violence in the Muslim world. Just sayin...

[Freddie Stubbs]

127. Kucinich apologized to the NAACP

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:Yo3xoLAj-_oJ:www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi%3Ff%3D/news/archive/2003/07/17/national1104EDT0571.DTL+%22kucinich+apologized%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3

He should have never apologized if he really was sincere about not wanting to incite violence against Arican-Americans.

[Rex]

134. So Dennis apologized for missing a meeting, but the Pope apologized

for inciting violence among the Muslim population. Yeah, I guess you could compare those two if you were really desperate.

Edit - And why did Dennis miss the meeting you ask? So he could vote on a bill. Come on Fred, you can do better.

[Freddie Stubbs]

140. Still looking for that qoute inciting violence?

;)

[Rex]

145. Sure

Right. ;)

[Binka]

239. Gee Fred Is Still Licking The Lost Stamp

What next?

[ShortnFiery]

204. The Pope did NOT ever apologize for *the content* - he should resign n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

80. I am not aware of any statements of the Pope advocating violence or

calling anyone inhuman.

Are you aware of any?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

83. Yes.

It's gotten quite a bit of news lately.

[Freddie Stubbs]

85. Can you provide a link to these statements advocating violence?

:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

96. Well, if you want.

http://zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=%2094748

[Rex]

104. That's so sad.

I wonder if the Pope knows about irony?

[Freddie Stubbs]

109. I see no call to violence in that

"God is not pleased by blood, and not acting reasonably ("syn logo") is contrary to God's nature."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

114. Uh huh.

and when Ahmadinejad said Israel "should be wiped off the map," he was talking about the game of Risk he happened to be playing at the time.

:crazy:

[Rex]

116. Did he ever apologize for his remarks?

:sarcasm: or not.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

209. Nope.

The Pope didn't really apologize for his remarks.

As for Ahmadinejad, he's publically stated he's got no plans or desires to attack Israel.

[datasuspect]

149. have you heard of this new thing called "google"

consistently asking for quotes while playing the naif is not very becoming.

[Rex]

154. He can only type in three words, if nothing comes up then all is good

and fine in the world. Oh, almost forgot the ;)

[Freddie Stubbs]

155. Google search for "pope advocated violence" yeilds no results

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2005-44%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=%22pope+advocated+violence%22&btnG=Search

[treestar]

160. Then neither should you.

Looks like there is enough you are not aware of that we can't really provide you with all that information.

Sorry, the concept that all the Christians collectively are better than all the Muslims collectively does not fly. And we certainly can't expect the Muslims to accept it even if we believe it.

[Rex]

68. Dayum!

:Drumroll:

[Rex]

70. Did you miss his apology the other day?

For calling the Muslim religion one of violence? It was on the TEEVEE.

[Freddie Stubbs]

76. That wasn't the question

When did the Pope advocate violence?

[Rex]

77. I just told you.

You must have missed it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

88. But you haven't been able to provide any proof that he advocated violence

against muslims.

[Rex]

92. It was in the news, I am very sorry if you missed it.

You do know how to use google right? :shrug:

[Freddie Stubbs]

100. Yes, but nothing come up when you search "pope advocated violence"

http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2005-44%2CGGLG%3Aen&tab=wn&q=%22pope+advocated+violence%22

[Rex]

102. That's because you worded it incorrectly.

You'll figure it out.

[Freddie Stubbs]

175. Thess google search yeilds some documents:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2005-44%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=%22slander+against+pope%22

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2005-44%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=%22lies+about+pope%22

[Rex]

178. LOL

:rofl: Much better then the Dennis theory! :thumbsup:

[hfojvt]

103. maybe because it is so far away from accurate

first, the Pope never said muslims were evil and inhuman. He quoted a 1,000 year old writing which said that Islam, where original, was evil and inhuman.

You may say it is the same thing. Except notice that I just did what the Pope did (except I paraphrased). Does that mean I agree with everything that I quote? Not unless I say so in my own words. In the Pope's speech that quote was not the basis or the summary of a thesis. It was used to make a different point. A point where he, in fact, argues against violence and coercion.

That is pretty far away from advocating violence, no matter what the over-sensitive and Pope haters and Catholic haters may 'think' about it.

[Rex]

107. LOL. Pope/Catholic haters, thanks for playing.

Why did the Pope use the passage in the first place? He had to know it would incite a violent reaction from Muslims. Or is it just more of that willful ignorance people love to hide behind?

:shrug:

[hfojvt]

173. LOL, the 'willful ignorance' meme

because we all know exactly how people are going to react. We all should know what 'tar baby' means. We all know how people will react to a quote. Especially millions of people. Even after the fact, I do not think their reaction to his speech was appropriate.

[Rex]

183. Well of course you don't.

Willful ignorance as a meme? Talk about jumping the shark! :rofl:

[hfojvt]

191. okay, maybe it is just a talking point

used by people incapable of making a logical argument. :rofl: :eyes:

[Rex]

193. Zing!!!

:rofl: :eyes: :shrug: ;)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

110. Well, that's the thing, isn't it?

A person can pretend the Pope was "only quoting" and that it's not really advocating violence.

But he wasn't just quoting, and he really was advocating violence.

"Pope haters and Catholic haters."

LOL

[hfojvt]

189. this whole business of 'pretend' is kinda confusing

Person A: X is true.
Person B: X is false. Because of A, B and C.
Person A: You can pretend that X is false, but X is really true.

You really need alot more explication in your argument than arguing that your opponents are pretending.

Is 'LOL' a cogent argument? "Pope haters" is a funny term somehow? Yet you are bashing the Pope without being able to justify it, except to another poster who says 'Dayum' (or ditto). Sort of a 'friends agree with friends in order to express friendship'. Or 'If you like a person they can dump a plate of spaghetti in your lap and you will laugh, but if you hate a person, then the way they hold their fork infuriates you.'

I read a good portion of Ratzinger's speech, so if you wanna convince me that he was advocating violence you need a clearer argument.

[Rex]

196. We are laughing at you (pope haters), did you not get it?

We get it, try to catch up! :rofl:

[Name removed]

210. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rex]

216. Yeah the second one.

You got it! :thumbsup:

[Binka]

241. But He Hoped It Wasn't True

I am sure you feel better with that said. HAHAHAHA. Rex you rock!

[KaptBunnyPants]

225. Nicely done!

nt

[Bake]

153. Sure. As long as they both hate the U.S.

I say fuck 'em both. Any DUer who thinks Ahmadinejad is a "good guy" needs his/her head examined.

Bake

[SlavesandBulldozers]

226. they don't hate the US

they correctly think the US is run by a madman.

[Caution]

17. Chavez may be a loon, but he has just as much right to criticize Bush as

anyone else. Freedom of Speech is a right. Period.

Cue Chavez auto-defense because I expressed my opinion that he's a loon. I fully expect to be called one or more of the following:

1.) right-wing shill
2.) A corporatist
3.) A Freeper
4.) Conservative

Let's see how creative it gets.

[Moochy]

27. Right wing shill corporatist freeper conservative

What was that Ignored?

[Caution]

42. That didn't take long now did it :)

Though I was hoping for something new. The cult of personality around him is just so uncreative with their basic insults. Of course I am none of the above (In fact my personal politics fall to the left of Chavez) but hey any negative comments about Chavez always results in instant recrimination. It's like saying you don't like Randi Rhodes' show or Mike Malloy's show (I don't like either of their shows) or of course saying you don't believe in X(choose any of the following: MIHOP, LIHOP, astrology, chemtrails, chelation therapy, the healing "power" of prayer, homeopathy, god or unicorns).

[Moochy]

65. Always happy to oblige :-)

However, I agree with you about the need for critical thought and a rational discourse about fringe crap from the newagey kinds of sources. ( Newage rhymes with sewage )

I didnt want to stray from your list of insults, since that would be well, creative and mean.

I'm guessing that the word "loon" has been used so much by folks like the ex-du'er MrB and his cadre of happy tree friends that I'm instantly prejudiced against it.

I appreciate reasoned and rational critiques of Chavez' domestic and international policies, but I haven't seen much of that around here.

[Binka]

243. Gawd I Love You

Rip on the lost ones. They surely need a beating.

[GCP]

18. Flame me if you want but I actually agree with Rangel

I loathe Bush with the white hot heat of a thousand suns, but I was offended by Chavez' remarks - and yes, I know all about the attempted coup that Shrub and cohorts tried to bring about in Venezuela.
Chavez could have listed all Bush's disastrous policies, his disastrous war, thousands upon thousands of innocent lives snuffed out through the actions of Bush et al, and there would be no disagreemnt on my part or most of the UN, but calling a president of the United States a devil, is just performing for his supporters inside and outside the UN. It demeans us because it equates us with the devil in the eyes of unsophistated people around the world.
Let us do the demonization, we're more than equipped to handle the task.
Flame away.

[Moochy]

20. um nice screen name.

didnt you get the memo? commies love chavez. Get with the program.

[Binka]

245. Holy Shit

I am laughing so hard I wet my pants. Where were you when I was living in the east bay?

[BurtWorm]

23. I wasn't offended by Chavez's remark. But I have no problem with Rangel's

either. (He's my Congressman, by the way.)

Imagine some dufus like Rick Santorum going to Caracas to badmouth Chavez. How would we all feel about Santorum then?

[maddezmom]

45. I'm in the same boat

BTW, Charlie is one of my favs and I donate frequently...you're lucky person to have him. :hi:

[BurtWorm]

53. I feel lucky.

He's an excellent rep. :toast:

[Gormy Cuss]

46. Rangel is an astute guy.

I trust that he made his remarks with full awareness of the potential consequences.

[dkofos]

50. He would still be an asshole in my book

[BurtWorm]

55. Actually, if Santorum suddenly called Bush "diablo"

he'd still be an asshole in my book. ;)

[KingFlorez]

Yeah, yeah

If you don't like Bush, why do you care what someone says about him

[KingFlorez]

32. dupe

[KingFlorez]

33. dupe

[otohara]

49. Read The Whole Speech

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0920-22.htm

And watch Democracy Now, after the speech, Professor Greg Grandin explains the bigger picture of what Chavez was trying to achieve. http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/21/1538241

GREG GRANDIN: Well, I think he was speaking on a number of levels. The most immediate level, he was trying to change the script that was being set up by the press as a confrontation between Iran and the United States, as exemplified by the two speeches of the respective leaders the day before. And what I think Chavez did was he diversified the struggle, and this speaks to what he is, I think, trying to do on a larger global scale. It no longer became about Iran and the U.S., but all of a sudden there was a kind of -- he provided a cover fire, I think, for Iran in some ways by breaking through the tedium of the General Assembly and giving us an image that I think will go down in the history of the UN, along with Khrushchev banging his shoe on the podium.

AMY GOODMAN: The response in the General Assembly?

GREG GRANDIN: From what I read in the New York Times is that applause -- the UN organizers of the event had to quiet the crowd down, that the applause had gone on for so long that he received the longest ovation of any other speech at the event.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Of course, what became most of the focus in the news coverage last night and today were the references to Bush and the devil and the sulfur is burning. There was almost a -- while clearly quite a few Americans, especially backers of President Bush, were outraged, there was almost a humorous or sarcastic note to the whole thing, wasn’t there?

GREG GRANDIN: Yeah, I think so. I think if you actually look at the clip -- and I think it was the most downloaded clip from CNN, so I think people, American viewers, are getting a sense of it -- there was a smile on his face. He crossed himself. He did the -- you know, he looked up to God. And so, I think much of what Chavez does, he does with a glint in his eye.


BTW, Bush has used any podium in every part of the world to bash and bad mouth, what's good for the goose....

[treestar]

165. First Flame: we are not equated, Chavez even distinguished

between the people of the US and the government of the US.

Chavez was at the UN, which is not supposed to be considered in the US. It is ridiculous to claim the US can never be criticized in the UN because of location. That is the most childish part of Rangel's statement.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

Hear Hear And Bravo To Ya. I Agree With You Completely.

No flames from me whatsoever. Take confidence in the fact that many of us here feel the same way. :)

[No Exit]

244. Tell him, Charlie! "Chavez, you leave our idiot alone!!"

"George W. Bush has singlehandedly disposed of the myth of white supremacy."--Rep. Charles Rangel.

Charlie, paraphrased: "I can attack the retarded guy, but YOU can't, you, you, you...VENEZUELAN, you!"

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cha]

150. EnviroBat?

Welcome to DU!

[Renew Deal]

25. This is the way things used to work.

Many here have forgotten that.

[hfojvt]

82. that was back when Presidents made the attempt

or at least were better at pretending to be President for the whole country. With one party rule and with a no compromise attitude it does not feel like these Republicans represent me at all. I might as well be a foreigner in the country of my birth. After the election many of us apologized to the world. Until we have a President who does what's best for our country and our world instead of totally serving just his base - the haves and the have-mores, then it will not feel like our country.

Leno joked that Chavez thanked his new speechwriter - Howard Dean, but Howard often speaks for me, with his message of 'take our country back'. In this case, Chavez speaks for me more than Rangel does.

[otohara]

26. Oh Charlie

Telling people, what they can and cannot do and say sounds soooo GOP and CBS!

Isn't the UN the place where such dialogue can take place? It is considered "international territory" and Chavez broke no laws by speaking his mind.


The land is now considered international territory. Under special agreement with the U.S., certain diplomatic privileges and immunities have been granted, but generally the laws of New York City, New York State, and the U.S. apply.

In the 1960s new General Assembly and Secretariat buildings were built in New York, but there are major agencies located in Geneva, Switzerland and elsewhere. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=United_Nations

[michael_1166]

29. Tell you what, Mr. Rangel:

I'm just an ordinary German citizen, but I'm not only refraining from visiting your country, I also won't buy any American products unless your mass murdering president is behind bars.

[windbreeze]

52. OMG

You as a German citizen can buy products marked made in the USA.???? Please send me a list of what you have available(other than cheese/wine)...as all I find everything seems to be made in the Phillipines, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Pakistan...and every other country in the world...some of which I have never heard of before...
wb

[treestar]

170. Mexico, Viet Nam, Brazil and especially China

It's so hard to boycott the United States, even in the US it is possible hardly trying!

Hollywood and its products might be an example, however.

[Annces]

34. I am glad he said it, and Rangel does not speak for me

[Ganja Ninja]

35. Same old gutless Democrats.

I don't know why I should hope a turnover in congress will mean change. These people are just too meek to utter a disparaging word let alone stand up to the right.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

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[windbreeze]

38. oh, so * represents Rangel???

he sure as hell doesn't represent me...I disown him...let anyone call him whatever they want too...doesn't offend me in the least...in fact I am sitting here thrilled that someone had the balls to call it like they see it...(after all isn't it * who named the axis of EVIL...seems to me, turnabouts fair play...)
wb

[dkofos]

40. Free Speech is free speech

Get over it

[go west young man]

44. Hey if our own dems had stood up before the Iraq war and

said no way maybe we wouldn't have other world leaders showing us how it's done. I like Rangel but come on. Let's keep the heat on the real danger. Bush. Chavez is not an enemy of the people of the U.S. Just our fucked up foreign policy and the neocon corps that exploit the worlds people and resources.

[Bluerthanblue]

47. Rangel's Attack on Chavez, is proof US is doomed- freedom of

speech?

HOW DARE someone come into the 'land of the free' and speak their mind????

I'm glad someone has the courage to do so- Chavez has no $ to lose by being honest about how he feels.
What a sorry place we have become America.

We can dish it out but we sure as .... can't handle it when it comes back to us.


:cry:

[malaise]

67. Rangel, Pelosi et al

don't want this to become an election issue. Buchanan was already on MSM trying to make Chavez visit to Harlem an election issue. I wish Dems had more balls and were more proactive than reactive, but this is about the November elections. Chill people.

It doesn't matter what they say - Bush is still fugging evil.

[Bluerthanblue]

87. at some point do we not need to put

our own selves aside?

What kind of integrety can we hope for from folks who feign indignance, or put on airs to cover thier rear ends to be re-elected? Can we count on people who sell themselves out for thier own interests to honestly stand up when necessiary?

Are these people 'our only hope'???

please say it isn't so-

It hurts to be exposed for the fools we are, but facades are tiresome and temporary.

this makes me so sad.

[malaise]

171. How many days to the election again

Dems cannot allow the Rethugs to take the offensive here. They already brought out Buchanan to lead the charge. I agree with Chavez but I also agree with the Dems here. For once they killed all possible spin in advance. Truthfully I wish Dems had said this themselves, but in 'silly season' better to kill the possible spin' before you give them one more talking point. Winning the election is very very important.

[sufrommich]

215. How can you possibly know

that Rangel is "feigning"anything?Maybe he's expressing his thoughts on how the majority of his constituents feel.I'm guessing a whole lot more dems agree with Pelosi and Rangel than agree with the Democrat bashing mob on this board.Is this still a board for Democrats?If it's not,could someone point me in the direction of a board that is?This whole thread disgusts me.

[Binka]

249. Democrat Bashing Mob? Disgusted?

I could point you in a new direction honey. Just ask.

[KatieW]

143. Malaise is right and Pelosi and Rangel know the Republicans will try hard

to turn Chavez calling out Bush as the Devil to their own advantage in the upcoming elections, and are trying to prevent that from happening. What good is it if the Republicans stay in control of both houses? Better to bite your tongue a bit now and say what Rangel and Pelosi are saying, so the Republicans can't turn the Chavez debate into some big election plus for them.

I offer this example. My mom voted for Bush both times. She now has come to regret it and see's the debacle we're now in in Iraq is due to major failure of Bush and company. She has come around to saying she regrets voting for Bush. But last night when I talked to her, she did not like Chavez calling Bush the Devil. I hate to say it, but I think there are many average Americans out in middle America like my mom, who once have voted for Bush and now have come around and don't trust him, yet they don't want to see him called the Devil by someone.

[QuestionAll...]

79. harumph. and Pelosi called Chavez a 'thug'...

while bush is a torturing, mass murdering, constitution ripping, lieing piece of scum she comes to defend him, like Rangel here. and these are supposed to be the 'good guys' looking out for you, these 'democrats?'

It's over, people.
face it.
no one is properly representing you -

except Hugo Chavez.

now ain't that a bloody shame.

[Bluerthanblue]

99. united corporations of america-

the common man has no lobby-
so we can rot-

Funny how the 'little things in life' speak so clearly.

it is a bloody shame, and I don't want to be a party to it all.

Out Out damn spot-

[onenote]

181. sorry, but Hugo Chavez definitely does not "represent" me

[Bluerthanblue]

211. well, hate to point this out but bush does, like it or not-

and what bush does impacts us, and our children and thier children --

So, when a person travels to our country and speaks thier mind, with more honesty and skill than our own p'resident'- (devil analogy aside) I will not tell him he has no right to criticize the person who is controling this runaway train called America.

I APPRECIATE Chavez making the distinction between bush and the American people- most people don't- and won't. Look how many innocent Iraqi people are suffering, dying, and living in hell thanks to the man that represented Iraq- AND the man that 'represents' America - as p'resident'.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

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[QuestionAll...]

113. lots of rolled over and dead americans...

have you not been listening?

and chavez had nothing to do with it. and more fucking mouths should be screaming about the devils who are responsible.

take off the damn gloves already, you should be fighting for your lives - not hung up on another leaders word etiquette.

I really can't believe this...

[Bluerthanblue]

115. no, actually he is a

GUEST in America- something that bush the holy should take to mean he should be treated with honor and respect regardless of his feelings about the man- it is even in bush's supposed 'guide book' - the BIBLE, but he's clearly not familar with the passages that ask something difficult of a person-

Chavez asked NO ONE to 'roll over and play dead'- that's bush's line- and bush's mo- and when people won't roll over and play dead, bush sends our sons and daughters out to kill them so that don't have to play-

And, forgive me for picking on your grammar, because I am admittedly in the top 1% of poor writers, but I believe the idiom you used should read "he's got another THINK coming"-
(My father was a master of idioms, it's in the genes)

:rant:

[Moochy]

133. RAWR Beat that chest you blue blooded amurrikkkan!

[Name removed]

137. Deleted message

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[Bluerthanblue]

156. if * loves this country

so much, why is he doing everything in his power to destroy it?

When a relationship goes bad, the people that TRULY care about it are the ones who stay and struggle to make things work- It's those who don't give a crud who refuse to negotiate, or even consider that they might have things to apologize for, or work on.

But then, your * can't think of any mistakes he's made other than his choice of taunts.

Love isn't walk out on someone when they are messed up- It means being willing to hang in, and be willing to be hated, badmouthed and attacked, until the withdrawal symptoms subside. Or until the person has to be taken care of by people better equipped to manage the situation. Sometimes it is a medical facility, sometimes it's jail.

Either one would be appropriate in *'s case.

[Skidmore]

162. You know, none of us here could possibly hate this country

as much as the chickenhawks voted for these imbeciles that head this Mickey Mouse administration (yeah, I'm calling Boosh & Cheney names so sue me) and the Mickey Mouse Club Congress y'all installed with them. By the time they are done, America will be unrecognizable and no longer sovereign. Land of the free and home of the brave, my ass. Bunch of cowards lined up behind a coward and a bunch of Christian fanatics trying to bring Armageddon on cause they've been told that Mickey and the gang are put there by God. Handed the nation over Bin Laden and the terraists a long time ago. "They wanna kill us all." Inless we go shopping, of course. Shop till you drop, but my guess is y'all won't wear a uniform and actually go fight. Of course, there are those lucrative positions with KBR & Halliburton in which you can always make megabucks in and retire after a year.

:grr:

[Book Lover]

48. It isn't Chavez who is the head of the cabal robbing our nation blind.

It isn't Chavez who is the face for the group who are gutting recognition of our civil rights. It wasn't Chavez who authorized the prison at Guantanamo Bay. The Americans you are talking about are being attacked, sir, but by the very man you are defending. You don't have to like what Chavez has to say, of course, but don't step into the limelight and spout off about how I am being attacked by Chavez, because I am not. You do not speak for me, sir.

[LostinVA]

58. I thought he said this at the UN -- or am I mistaken?

[verse18]

59. This is rich:

"If there is any criticism of President Bush, it should be restricted to Americans, whether they voted for him or not."

IF there is any criticism??!!! How far out of touch can one person be? There is plenty of criticism going on by Americans, but we're equated to terrorist lovers and Nazi appeasers. Chavez echoed how most of us feel about *. At least when Chavez does it, people pay attention and agree with him if the applause he received was an indication.

And I hate when people say Chavez is anti-American. Chavez has stated we are all Americans. He is clearly anti-* and his foreign policy.

[treestar]

177. Not to mention that he can hardly expect that criticism of any president

can be limited to Americans. Then shouldn't criticism of Saddam Hussein be limited to Iraqis? This Rangel is just sounding like a HUGE BABY! That is the most childish thing I have ever heard from one of our politicians. It's nothing to be proud of.

Sheesh.

[Jeanette in FL]

64. Rangle should have taken the same stance as the WH and Bolton

and just refused to comment on it and let it go.

[Cha]

66. Bullshit! Fucking chimp doesn't

represent me, you idiot.

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

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[Cha]

125. :)

My my, what a rant! I think I won't respond to #91.

[Moochy]

101. Um bye bye

What would you like on your tombstone? How about
"Here lies a disruptor"

PS how is time travel from the 1950's treating you? Are you finding the Internets confusing?

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

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[Moochy]

112. What will your next screen name be?

you and your buddies can do better than that.

Living on borrowed time, what will your next screen name be?

Any predictions?

"What we people do best" is exposing lame ass moles like you.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

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[Moochy]

118. How about masturbates to pictures of Bush?

That would work equally well,
or

TriedToBeAMoleButWasTooFuckingStupid

[Bush Stole Ohio]

120. I like those too

I can roll with the punches.

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

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[Swamp Rat]

227. LOL!

:applause:

[Bluerthanblue]

135. guess it won't be-

I speak the truth, even when it isn't pretty, or comfortable.


You are searching for the truth, or you wouldn't be here-
I sincerly hope you find it.

[Cha]

128. "Even Hillary Clinton"! Was that

the giveaway?

[Name removed]

136. Deleted message

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[Moochy]

141. Here comes the truth

and you had us all fooled.

Good bye you racist fucking asswipe.

[Name removed]

148. Deleted message

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[Moochy]

151. Lol asians can't be racists

Bye bye, i know you are reading this reply anonymously, so enjoy your sad pathetic racist life.

[Cha]

174. "bush did steal Ohio"

though! :)

[Moochy]

176. Sad that the only truth was in his screen name

lol

[Bluerthanblue]

130. beware -

arrogance and pride are deadly-

What sickens me is that the people who actually have the power to ACT on the deluded decisions made by people with no concience and more dollars than sense, are willing to sell themselves to the highest bidder.

Because if you come right down to it, that is what they are doing. And why this world is what it is right this very minute. Which is NOT 'a good place'-

It takes alot of energy to live in denial. And it robs you of the only thing worth preserving, your own integrety.


Good Luck.

[windbreeze]

132. WOW....and this from a newbie....

Congratulations...mmmm...now where have I seen posts that sounded like the one you just made....let me think...oh...free republic I think it's called..."it's no wonder YOU lost congress in 1994, and can't get it back" "Fucking left-wing..etc., etc.," uh huh...gee careful how you write...you give yourself away...
wb

[Name removed]

142. Deleted message

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[Marr]

90. This is political posturing, and if you think it means anything at all

you're just being naive.

Do you honestly think Rangel gives half a shit about Bush being criticised?

[Moochy]

95. Exactly

Which is why it's so mealy mouthed, and "politically astute" for him to make these statements beating his chest and singing Toby Keith songs.

Oh well, another republican frame accepted without so much as a blink of an eye.

[Marr]

108. I wish it weren't just accepted as well- but is that the hill

you really want to die on? The US is very xenophobic and there's a hell of alot more than just the GOP pushing the "Chavez=Dictator" line here in the states. Pretty much every news outlet pushes it on behalf of their ownership.

Rangel is only a politician, and he's pandering to his constituents with a little (admittedly distasteful) bravado. I don't LIKE it, but I don't think it means anything, either.

[Zodiak]

93. I totally disagree with Rangel on this issue

for a couple of reasons:

1. The UN is NOT American soil. By that same logic NO country can come here and bad-mouth the US at the UN.

2. Americans should try to strive for promoting free speech.

Chavez explained in full exactly why he thought Bush to be a devil, and his information was correct (albeit undiplomatic). The good thing is that Rangel's little tidbit will hardly make a ripple in national politics. No harm done, no damage taken, and Chavez hardly cares what Rangel has to say.

But it is not a shining moment in American progressivism, that is for sure.

[malaise]

180. Chavez was at the Baptist church in Harlem this

morning. That is Rangel's district. I agree with yuo re UN being a neutral venue but this is hard core politics and while I know Bush is evil, I want a democratic victory in November and Dems do not need to give the Rethugs any new talking points. Whem MSNBC trots out Buchanan to attack Rangel and Dems, Rangel had no choice but to kill the spin before it became a major talking point on MSM.

People already know Bush is evil - kill the spin early.

[Zodiak]

182. I agree with the strategy

but I do not agree with the statement.

Complicated, but these are complicated times.

[malaise]

190. A Democratic Victory is a must

Dems have to stay on point. I am a big Chavez supporter. I know Bush is evil but in complicated times political expediency is sometimes very necessary. This is one of them because this is Rangel's district and the spin had already begun.

Dems now need to dig in on Bush incompetence and Rethug incompetence, lack of oversight, etc. Chavez is good for us troops but the party must stay on point and have executed a brilliant tactical spin kill this morning. nancy's 'thug' comment was way more upsetting to me.

[mmonk]

98. Sorry Charlie

I have no connection to this president and I give permission for Chavez to speak his mind. Who in the hell is running our dog and pony show anyway? We're going to lose again.

[CBGLuthier]

119. What an ignorant fuck

Has he heard what HIS president has said about other world leaders?

[radfringe]

122. no one picks on bush,,,,

yeah, some of us probably chuckled, some might have even laughed at the bush is a devil comment

we might have even referred to him as a devil ourselves... but that's the point - we called him a devil ourselves...

When growing up - no one was allowed to pick on or beat up my brother or sister ... except me. Pick on them and you would be cruising for a bruising.

The UN is not some local bar where you can slam somebody over a beer with your buddies. It's suppose to be more than that.

imagine the howls if in his speech the other day, bush refered to any other leader as the devil or a nazi?

as much as I enjoy seeing bush get tweaked - Chavez stepped over the line, his people may be cheering him back home, but hey like him or not the smirk-boy is our smirk-boy and we're the only ones allowed to bash him

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

126. Put a sock in it Charlie. Who appointed you speech police?

I'd like to see a whole flock of foreign leaders speack out as Hugo did about your, not my, president.

[Freddie Stubbs]

147. Who appointed you speech police to tell Charlie to "put a sock in it?"

:shrug:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

161. I did. The vote was a landslide. 1 - 0.

[CBGLuthier]

166. Let me see if I understand your logic here

Person A says something.

Person B says person A has no right to say that thing.

So when person C points out that person B might be attempting to limit the free speech rights of person A.

Then you say person C is limiting free speech and person B has the right to tell person A they do not have the right for free speech.

Where did I put that bottle of aspirin?

[Moochy]

172. Your mistake

was expecting coherent logic from an idealogue.

[npincus]

131. Rangel blew me off at the April 19 NYC peace rally

I approached him, and with a big broad smile I said "Hi, wouldyou like to carry one of these?" holding up my homemade signs. I was kidding. Rangel said , "NO!" and walked away.

He had an older black gentlemen next to him whose job appeared to be brushing the lint from his collar and polishing him for his next photo.

I thought his behavior was dismissive and rude.

[treestar]

144. I hope he's not one of the Rethug UN bashers, because if he is

Chavez was at the UN, not "in my country." Is he to claim that no one at the UN can ever criticize Chimpy because the UN happens to be located in the US? And I guess criticism of Clinton would still be allowed.

[Jacobin]

146. Its just a tribal thing. Rangel is a good guy

[Cha]

158. He may be a good guy but I

remember him going out of his way to criticize Dean, too. So, whatever.

[MisterP]

157. mr. "* shatters the myth of white supremacy once and for all"

"Bush is our Bull Connor"?
creepy how deep the Gleichschaltung goes--just mention Chavez or Israel or Castro, and everyone jumps to attention in neat files, like something out of "Bill the Galactic Hero"

[spanone]

159. They've been wiretapping Rangel for years don't ya know.

They've probably got shit on Charlie we can't imagine.

[LaurenG]

167. Well I'm not offended by Rangel or Chavez

Whatever.

[rinsd]

168. Rangel vs. Chavez,the clash of the cult of DU personalities begins....

[EarthNeedsHope]

169. INTERNATIONAL TERRITORY is not your district!

Get it right Rangel

[Connie_Corleone]

185. What in the hell has happened to DU??

When did it become Chavez Underground?

[LaPera]

187. SO FUCK YOU CHARLIE RANGEL!

Yes, Bush with his war mongering, killer of the poor and his imperialism certainly is the "devil"...But, we all knew this!

Viva Chavez!

Bravo!!

[Nite Owl]

192. Rangel is wrong

It wasn't offensive what Chavez said but it was embarrassing. Chavez' speech was not the problem but a symptom of the disrespect America now has all over the world. * and his gang have destroyed a history of diplomacy, of trust. How do we get that back? It could take decades. And as far as restricting criticism of * to our borders * took care of that too when he labeled anyone who disagrees with him a traitor, one who aids terrorists. He made that divide.

[Name removed]

195. Deleted message

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[Connie_Corleone]

199. I'm sitting here in disbelief over the comments about Rangel.

Calling him a pussy?? Give me a break!

I hate to say it, but I think DU has jumped the shark today.

WELCOME TO CHAVEZ UNDERGROUND! :eyes:

[Name removed]

203. Deleted message

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[SaveElmer]

198. Uh oh...I see progressive heads exploding...

Will they rationalize the comments and continue to support him...as they do with Feingold...

Or will the long knives come out...?

:popcorn:

[robertpaulsen]

200. Dear Draft-Happy Congressperson: You don't speak for me!

Furthermore, it is disrespectfully presumptuous of you to speak for anyone else, just because you are a United States Congressperson. I am an American, and I was not offended in the slightest by Chavez's choice of words regarding our Thief in Chief. Point of fact, I laughed my fucking ass off. So please, in the future, if you're offended by someone else's choice of words regarding the current White House squatter, go ahead and voice your displeasure, as is your right. But don't presume to speak for anyone other than yourself.

[ShortnFiery]

201. This is one of the few times Charlie is way out of touch n/t

[FILAM23]

202. Charlie is right about this

and he's right about the draft also.

[ShortnFiery]

208. Yeah, let's all wrap ourselves in the flag and follow Dear Leader ...

off of a cliff. Just like a herd of stampeding cattle. :puke:

Rangel's outrage was too conveniently nationalistic. Remember patriots! = jingoism DISTORTS one's vision of reality. Come on Charlie Rangel, WTFU!

The highest form of patriotism is to want to right the wrongs within one's country. :patriot: Not defending the indefensible, the pResident "war criminal" within the White House.

[stepnw1f]

230. DING< DING< DING!!! (nt)

[City Lights]

205. You can have him, Charlie.

:eyes:

He's all yours. :puke:

[patrioticliberal]

213. Shut the fuck up, Rangel.

[Brian Stevens]

217. I wouldn't label him a LIEberman or Zell ite

I call Rangel a RUPERT MURDOCK STOOGE for all the times he goes on Faux News. That channel MUST BE DESTROYED!!!

[samsingh]

218. so he's accepted shrub as his president. good to know

this is why dems lose elections. shrub is no one's friend and worse.

[boolean]

219. BARF!

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[Poll_Blind]

220. That YouTube video...thank you so much for including it. n/t

PB

[goodhue]

221. hardly

Calling Bush the Devil is no afront to me

[Jcrowley]

222. Let's give Rangel credit

He used the word "not" more times than I've ever seen in such a short paragraph.

So essentially Chuck is saying if you ain't 'merikan and you are in 'merika you better bite your tongue or lick the emperor's ass.

These aren't just "problems" Chuck we're talking war criminal and anyone who does not point this out daily is an enabler of fascism.

I'm convinced that the water in D.C. is supplied by Jim Jones Waterworks Inc. The whole snake pit needs to be cleaned out.

So now all foreign heads of state should be stopped before entering and questioned by Homeland Security. "Are you planning on saying anything naughty about Der Fuhrer?"

[gully]

228. In context the remark was not as "strong."

eom

[stepnw1f]

229. Somebody Wake Me Up

We have cowards in our party....

[Solly Mack]

231. I'm not offended. Please stop pretending that I am

If you're gonna presume to speak for me at least know what you're talking about.

[bobbolink]

232. I love ya, Charlie, but you are SOOOOOO wrong on this!

It's called freedom of speech, and it's recognized in other countries, even though on vacation here in the US.

[SammyWinstonJack]

234. LOL!

:rofl: Rep. Rangel DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ME and he can take his draft proposal and stick that too! :grr:

[lumpy]

235. Charley 'let's have a draft' Rangel is

clinging to the 'red white & blue', 'America right or wrong', 'respect the office' bullshit that in this world today protocal and making nicey nicey has been dumped out the window by Bush and his Handlers.

[wiley]

236. Did the Dixie Chicks trash the leader of any country they were in?

I think not! But seriously, Chavez has murdered and maimed many of his own people. Try and say anything but thank you o great worshiper of Bolivar in Venezuela and your life is over. Is he trying to arm the pooor uptown to rise up violently against this country's leadership? You'll get off, they'll get dead. Call it Chavez bashing, but he should just shut up and go home already. Don't encourage or idolize a jerk just because there are no Republicans with the cojones to firmly stand against the insanity and incompetence of their party's administration. Picking Rangel's district is no different that Al Qaeda trying to influence people to vote for Republicans to make terrorist recruiting worldwide easier. He only picked Rangel's district because Kentucky was busy, right?

[Clarkie1]

242. Rangel and Pelosi today showed America at it's best. Kudos to both. nt

[Jcrowley]

246. He wasn't in your country Chuck

The Headquarters for the UN are in New York (United States) on an 18-acre site on the east side of Manhattan. It is an international zone which belongs to all Members. The UN even has its own security force, fire department and postal service. The UN Centre in Geneva, Switzerland, is the second largest office behind New York and is housed in the Palais des Nations, built in 1936. There are also UN offices in Nairobi and Vienna, as well as five Regional Commissions.

[Ksec]

248. It didnt feel like an attack on me...

If felt like a guy was pissed and he lashed out at the guy who tried to kill him. It didnt feel like an attack on me imo.

[pinto]

251. Locking.

Sorry. This is full of personal attacks. Probably not our best example of civil discussion, even for a contentious topic.

Thanks.