OK, I just heard both Rangel & Pelosi's statement on Chavez on CNN

[Skidmore]

and they are being patted on the back for supporting the "president." I am irked by both statements, but particularly Rangel's statement. The idea that no one in the world is allowed to criticize the little tin god but Americans is ludicrous and laughable. AND the idea that some of these Democratic Party legislators are among his "harshest critics" is equally laughable, given how many of them have rushed to be "bipartisan" and vote against the people on crucial votes.

I just felt nauseous listening to that drivel. It would have been better to say nothing at all.

[still_one]

1. They want to win in 2006

[ShortnFiery]

3. Politics is a smarmy game.

:puke: :(

[still_one]

8. most people in this country do not support Chavez

and that includes the Democrats and republicans in Congress
I don't need an A-hole like Chavez critizing Bush, I can do it myself

[Nozebro]

20. Are you biased against Chavez because of his race?

Is your disrespectful post intended to degrade any discussion about the policies of Chavez, or is it just a knee-jerk reaction from a jerk who knows nothing about what Chavez has done and what he proposed in his U.N. speech?

[still_one]

31. You are an idiot to even accuse me of being predjudice because

of his race. There is NO WHERE I expressed any RACIST talks

You want to defend the socialist/communist jerk, be my guest, but don't call me a racist based on YOUR PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS THAT ANYONE WHO MAY NOT AGREE WITH YOU, OR NOT LIKE CHAVEZ IS A RACIST OR A JERK. YOU ARE THE JERK!!!

[Beelzebud]

76. Don't worry. That is the tactic of ppl who are politically bankrupt.

I didn't realize this was CommunistUnderground, but lately it seems that way.

[earth mom]

38. I think you would be VERY surprised at the number of people

in this country who support what Chavez is saying. Did you even read his speech? Or get beyond what he called *? Or did Chavez offend your sensibilities about your leader too much? :eyes:

[bigluckyfeet]

82. I read his speech

and it was great!....so refreshing to hear the truth.

[Solomon]

68. See this is exactly why the democrats MAKE ME EFFIN SICK!!

I can't stand the mfs. We have gotten to the point where all our politics is just based on not wanting to offend people. I'm sick to death of it. I'm sick to death of people telling critical thinkers, "don't say that or the right-wing will say we're kooks". I'm sick to death of it because HELLO, THEM DAMN PEOPLE AIN'T VOTING FOR YOU ANYWAYS.

The fact is, we look weak BECAUSE we try to avoid offending the right. Not because we cut defense, or have liberal policies, or try to do right by people, BUT BECAUSE WE TRY TO SUCK UP TO OUR ENEMIES.

I would rather the democratic party accept that it will not win again, until it plays the ROLE OF AGITATOR. WAKER UP OF THE MASSES. It will lose in the short run, but in the long-run we will wake the people up from the drunken stupor of american arrogance.

We need new leadership that is unafraid to tell the truth, EVEN IF IT EFFIN OFFENDS RIGHTWING ASSHOLES.

[Bluerthanblue]

10. what good is winning if you lose

yourself in the process?

Do YOU 'trust' them? Won't they always do what they think is 'best for thier careers'?
I'm 'trust' impared. It doesn't take much to trip my switch. And as far as I'm concerned, the statements made today, make me feel like people who claim they didn't have a choice about 'going to war with Iraq".

Peoples lives hang in the balance of what our representatives do.

And if the deciding factors are thier seats in the house and senate, at ALL costs- we are done, and we are feeling the forks being stuck in us already.

I was trying to honor today as the INTERNATIONAL DAY OF PEACE-

I gotta leave DU.
I'm nurturing the negative here, and I apologize.

PEACE-
blu

[still_one]

25. I am not losing myself in the process, and Chavez is NOT my hero

focus on the issues against bush, instead of some insignificant idiot who calls the president names

[Bluerthanblue]

41. a person doesn't have to be

a hero to speak the truth. Well, maybe they have to be just crazy enough they don't care about becoming a larger target in this administrations shooting gallery.
You got stuck on the word DEVIL- and you got stuck because the criticizm of bush and the actions of the USA that Chavez pointed out, VERY clearly- and VERY factually didn't come from someone in our 'own' government.

I've hoped for the Dems to rescue this nation for the last 6 LONG years. Listening to the feigned indignance coming from Pelosi and Rangel reminds me I'm stuck betting on a bunch of nags. And even though I can't possibly vote for anyone other than them, the reality of the choices suck-

Have you read Chavez's speech? Take out the devil 'drama' element- Focus instead on his critique of the policies and actions of America post-selection and he makes some VERY unpleasantly honest, and accurate statements.

I wonder if Pelosi and Rangel kept thier minds engaged past the first few lines- because if they did, they ARE shooting the messenger. It's not opinion, it's factual.

sorry- I really will leave- Peace is where I need to put this energy- not politics.

blu

[partylessinOhio]

48. Thank you for speaking out and speaking the truth.

Sorry to see a fighter go. We need fighters to replace the weaklings representing and destroying us.

[Tarheel_Dem]

49. I agree with you still_one....

For all the good or valid points Chavez may have made in his speech, only the name calling will be remembered. I, therefore, have to agree with Pelosi & Rangel.

It's pretty much all that has been discussed around the office today, and it did not sit well. I think the name calling will have the unintended effect of garnering support for (*), and by extension, the GOP.

I'm glad that Pelosi & Rangel condemned the remarks, although I would have preferred that Pelosi not use the term "thug", because that's name-calling as well. Let's face it, this non-issue will be used effectively by the opposition to divide us into pro-Chavez/anti-Bush or anti-Chavez/pro-Bush camps. Most people around the office have only heard the soundbite, not what was said before or after the name-calling.

Iraq is what we should be focused on, but the MSM has a "new boogey-man" and they'll try to tie him around our necks.

[Karenina]

52. Such short attention spans...

In the past 6 years, there have been any NUMBER of politicians in various countries who were forced to STEP DOWN because of their DIPLOMATIC but pointed criticisms of the murderous *creep you call CIC. Y'all cannot touch Chavez. Your CIA has tried to TAKE HIM DOWN, yet HE stands. He took advantage of that and did a bit of stand up comedy. (When he crossed himself, the tears were rolling! It played VERY WELL in this Catholic country). Considering that anytime your "dauphin has set foot on another continent he has cost folks LOADS O' DOUGH, insulted and slighted respected figures here, created MASSIVE inconvenience ALL AROUND and EMBARRASSED your nation with his addled ramblings, many outside your shores LAUGHED SO HARD AT HUGO'S ANTICS THEIR SIDES HURT!

[Tarheel_Dem]

55. that's just the point....."outside our shores"

and unfortunately, those "outside our shores" don't get to vote here (hell, i'm not sure we even get to vote here). But I am sure that Hugo was very concious of the impact his remarks would have abroad. In fact, I'm sure he was playing on the newly formed anti-American sentiment the whole world over. My main point is that within these shores, his "Devil" remarks won't play well with the masses. Feel free to disagree....

[still_one]

78. You and I are on the same page

Many of these "distractions" are just like what Nader and company did in 2000.

We can critisize this administration, and we have, WITHOUT the help of Chavez

Just scan the freeper boards, they love this nonesense when the left elevates Chavez.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

37. Yeah and they must be afraid they cannot do that with turth. n/t

[leftchick]

60. Excellent Strategy! Defend a universally UNPOPULAR president

even in his own country! Damn! What an excellent strategy! :eyes:

[still_one]

79. excellent strategy, distract from the real issues, and elevate Chavez

How much do you really want to win in 2006?

[LisaM]

2. The idea that the United Nations is on US soil is ridiculous

The United Nations is NOT considered to be on US soil. They even maintain their own postal system. Rangel is wrong on that, and I might call his office and tell him so.

[still_one]

6. but who do you think is the largest contributor?

[Selatius]

17. That's still irrelevant to the fact that UN land is not US soil.

It would be no different than Chavez being at the French or German embassy grounds and criticizing Bush. In both cases, it's not US soil.

[QuestionAll...]

32. some here saying that if you Are on US soil, you are

allowed to critisize Bush?
only American citisens can give him a can of whoop ass?

where have you Been lately? That country hasn't existed for quite some time now!


astounding...

[treestar]

46. IA, what difference does it make WHERE it is said?

Like if Natalie Maines of the Dixie Chicks had made her remarks in America instead of the UK, the freepers would have been OK with it?

What is this superstition about "the soil?" What difference does it make WHERE anyone is and on what soil when they criticize Chimpy?

[Dick Diver]

33. I believe

Rangel's reference to "his district" was not specifically in regards to Chavez' comments at the UN, but rather to his comments at a church in Harlem, which is definitely U.S. soil. I don't think Rangel's district includes the UN.

[LisaM]

18. That's hardly the point

are you saying that money buys free speech?

[acmejack]

22. Thank you, you are one of the few who seem to be aware of that fact.

I now return to my regularly scheduled state of depression.

[LynnTheDem]

4. But it's ok for US senators to call for assassinating other nations'

leaders.

Wanna know why we're so detested in the world, Americans??? Coz we're arrogant, ignorant hypocrites who have the biggest fucking dose of "Americans = Ubermenschen" going since the Germans in the 1930s and '40s.

T

[Poll_Blind]

11. I may not entirely agree with that, but I find little to argue with.

 sp:America suffers from an extremely dangerous case of Entitlement Issues when it comes to the rest of the world and our place in it. We are nolonger the power we once were and recognizing this and adjusting our hegemony accordingly will be necessary for a safer, more peaceful, more prosperous future for all Americans and the rest of the world.

PB

[mmonk]

5. They should be patted on the head instead.

They are trained well.

[Nozebro]

12. Exactly right, mmonk. Both probably have PORK bills in the hopper.

Or else they soon will have. It's a cheap way to bribe their colleagues in Congress.

[Robbien]

7. Sorry to say but almost all politicians in DC are warhawks

It is one of the major reasons voters do not see a difference between Dems and the GOP.

[Nozebro]

26. Bingo! They're warhawks on behalf of the Military Industrial Complex

They'd better be, too - if they value their lives.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. The word "spineless" comes to mind.

Why isn't anybody calling Bush a thug?

[mmonk]

14. Don't you believe in American exceptionalism?

Besides, bush is a peaceful and decent man.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. Actually, I already posted...

what I happened to think of this earlier. I was talking about freepers and radio talk show hosts at the time.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2184781&mesg_id=2187530

But I think it might still apply.

[still_one]

16. Perhaps the reason is because it is better to debate bush on the issues

instead of name calling

We actually might win the house in 2006 because the Democrats in Congress are NOT representative of most of the thoughts presented in this thread

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. LOL

"Perhaps the reason is because it is better to debate bush on the issues instead of name calling"

Alright. So why aren't they debating Bush on the issues instead of calling Chavez names?

[QuestionAll...]

29. Sweet Jesus! What is it?!

[QuestionAll...]

13. ditto.

they should have just kept their stupid yaps shut instead of get the pompoms out for the little fascist fuck.

I really got a creeped out feeling seeing/hearing that...
There is something sooooo wrong with all parts of the system.....

[Justice Is Comin]

15. Those kinds of sell out bleeding heart apologist statements

are guraranteed to keep home the seventy million who won't vote again this year. No guts, no leadership, no anger, just tear soaked sorries. America goes over the falls.

I want to throw up in my mouth too.

[oasis]

19. GOP campaign ads that feature Democrats in praise of Chavez:

Priceless.

[BootinUp]

24. Just Horrible! We should petition Skinner to rename the site

to VenezuelaUnderground.com!!

:sarcasm:

[Pastiche423]

50. Hyperbole much?

[Jed Dilligan]

27. This is how they should've played it:

"There's no EVIDENCE that the President is indeed the Prince of Darkness... We can't give these rumors any credence UNTIL they've been substantiated... The source of the sulfur smell COULD be natural... "

[KharmaTrain]

28. Media Frenzy Abatement Control

Watching CNN throughout the day, the meme was how evil, bad, nasty and terrible Chavez is...red meat for the wingnuts and right wing spewers...and boy could they use a diversion like this.

Left unaddressed, the corporate media will beat up on Chavez, and by association, Democrat...since this meme will fly fast and furious (it already is) on hate radio. When Wolfie or Brian Williams or Katie Couric drives in to work and hears Rushbo ranting, this is what they think is the big story and that's all the corporate media will suck on.

The last thing we need is a needless distraction at this point and Democrats need to stay focused on what really matters for November...not handing Rove and his lackeys red meat to play their "guilt by association" game. They're dying for a Michael Moore or a Paul Wellstone Memorial or some other boogieman to create an outrage and let it suck the air out of the scandals and other crimes going on with this regime.

[earth mom]

30. Agreed. It's absolutely sickening how they are "playing politics"

while the country is on FIRE! :grr:

[Individualist]

73. Playing politics, throwing gasoline on that fire,

and playing nice with the fascists. :puke:

[Erika]

34. Charlie Rangel is your ultimate politician

He knows what he is doing and Chavez did speak in his state and district. I trust him completely.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. CYA politicians saying what's "safe". Unlike Chavez.

[chill_wind]

36. Cheap easy points .Meanwhile, they sit SILENTLY on their arses

on the detainee debate!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2522725

Talk IS Cheap. Especially when it comes to huge media distractions like this.

[Imagevision]

39. I really liked Pelosi until today

[Balbus]

40. I like her even more after today.

Huh, I guess everything balances out.

[RebelOne]

42. Heard Hannity on the way home from work today.

He is saying that the Democrats are scared to death and that's why Rangel & Pelosi blasted Chavez. He could be right because Chavez made it look bad for the Democrats.

[verse18]

44. The Democrats make it look bad for Democrats.

Chavez was speaking the truth. The Dems should have been saying what Chavez said 6 years ago. If the Democratic Party consistently called * out on his BS this whole time, Chavez wouldn't have to.

[RebelOne]

71. Yes, you are right, but our chicken-shit

coward Dems are afraid to agree with him even though they know Chavez speaks the truth.

[Captain Hilts]

43. Just because Bush is a creep doesn't mean Chavez is a good guy. nt

[Balbus]

45. It does around here.

Hell, Idi Amin could rise from the grave and if he said "Bush is a dick," you'd see hundreds of threads stating how he should run for president.

[Skidmore]

57. BS..

Is noone in the entire world allowed to think or speak their minds on this succubus we have in the White House. I have yet to call that entity by the title he covets.

Do you believe in free speech? That man has just as much of a right to speak his mind as I do and claim.

[Webster Green]

58. Ah yes, the "dictator" accusation (cleverly disguised)

Nice!

A little more subtle than Pat Robertson, but gets the right-wing talking point across effectively.

[Balbus]

67. I'm not disguising anything - he's a piece of shit dictator.

[Webster Green]

69. Sez you! (And Pat Robertson)

Gimme a break, will 'ya?

[NYCGirl]

80. Did you see what Keith Olbermann said about Chavez and Robertson last

night?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14938435 /

OLBERMANN: The Bronze tonight to President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. Addresses the U.N. today, refers to President Bush as the devil, says, “It still smells of sulfur today.”

Mr. Chavez, you‘re only making Pat Robertson look good.

Our runner up, Jon H. Eipp of Novato, California, during his trial at the local courthouse, accused of stealing computers, he stole the computers at the local courthouse. He has now been convicted twice.

But the winner, Bill Orally. In an interview with Barbara Walters he tells her, “The FBI came in and warned me and a few other people at FOX News that al Qaeda had us on a death list.”

Hey, fella! Were they targeting you or where the just expecting you to help?

[raysr]

81. Bush? Ah yes, he is....

[partylessinOhio]

47. Very disgusted hearing Rangel, did not hear that Pelosi woman.

Rangel & Pelosi should both get off their duffs and beat up on Bush themselves instead of attacking Chavez for doing it for them. If they want to defend Bush then they too should change their party affiliations. Pelosi is so weak we don't need her anyway.

Bush is the Devil and has gone all over the world embarrassing us with his lack of manners, his rudeness and his name calling. He does feel that he owns the world and can make decisions in any country that strikes his whim at the moment. He is responsible for torture and the gruesome deaths of hundreds of thousands in other countries as well as our own troops. He is a war criminal. He has spent our surplus and plunged us into unnecessary debt. He has undermined our Constitution and taken away so many of our rights under his dictatorship. What has Rangel & Pelosi done to stop him?

When is our party going to stand up and call out that this Emperor has no clothes? When?

[Ksec]

51. I think it needed to be said.

The problem I see is that not enough leaders are speaking out about what is really happening in this country. I think Chavez's speech was brilliant.

[gatorboy]

53. I think they're simply beating the Repugs to the punch.

If they would've said nothing, the Right would be spewing about it all week, trying to put Democrats on the defensive. Then a week would've been wasted focusing on Democrats. The Republicans want that to happen cause they're running scared so close to elections.

Better to say something now and get this pointless drivel out of the way and move on...

[GreenPartyVoter]

54. Guess they missed Olbermann's commentary, re: thinking

[BurtWorm]

56. I judge Rangel by his actions more than his words.

I can't get too mad at him for this.

[leftchick]

59. I am with Greg Palast; "90% of the world agrees with Chavez"

he said that on MSRNC today and he was spot on. Fuck rangel and pelosi! Do they think for one second a repuke would EVER defend a Democratic president? EVER? fuck them!

[NotGivingUp]

72. totally agree

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

61. I'm Proud Of Them Both. They Did The Right Thing.

I also don't agre whatsoever with Chavez's approach and childish taunting tactics. I think it was very unbecoming of a head of state as well and there are much more professional ways to get your message across. I don't care if basically everything he said about shrubby was true to certain degrees: He still was a complete ass for acting the way he did and showed how childishly tauntint he could be. I can't stand childish taunting.

So both for political reasons and some personal agreement, I'm proud of both of them for their statements speaking out against him.

[Webster Green]

62. Pelosi calling Chavez a thug is OK?

Why?

What's the difference? They are both personal attacks.

Bush actually may be the devil, but Chavez doesn't appear to be a thug.

Nancy is re-enforcing right wing talking points.

[Cleita]

66. Supposedly the reasoning is that Chavez didn't respect the office

of President even if he didn't respect Bush. But isn't calling Chavez a thug the same thing? I mean shouldn't we respect the office of the President of Venezuela too? Or are we so wrapped up in our own importance that we can insult with impunity, but god forgive if it's done to us?

[Skidmore]

64. BS...

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

70. AR...

[Individualist]

74. You're "proud of them both". Surprise, surprise.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

77. You Are Right. Since I'm On DU, It Would Stand To Reason That I'd Be

proud oftentimes of my Democratic leaders and representatives. I wouldn't expect anyone to find that surprising. Not sure why you would. :shrug:

[rodeodance]

63. Harkin defends Venezuelan President's U-N speech against Bush

Harkin defends Venezuelan President's U-N speech against Bush
by Darwin Danielson

Iowa Senator Tom Harkin, a democrat, today defended Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's United Nations speech in which Chavez called President George Bush the devil. Harkin said the comments were "incendiary", then went on to say, "Let me put it this way, I can understand the frustration, ah, and the anger of certain people around the world because of George Bush's policies." Harkin continued what has been frequent criticism of the president's foreign policy.

Harkin says Bush came to office saying he wanted a new humility in foreign policy in reaching out to other countries, but Harkin says Bush's actual policy has been heavy handed. Harkin says the anger against Bush is generated from the Iraq war, which Harkin says was "unnecessary."

Harkin says, "We tend to forget that a few days after 9-1-1 thousands, thousands of Iranians marched in a candlelight procession in Teheran in support of the United States. Every Muslim country was basically on our side. Just think, in five years, President Bush has squandered all that." Harkin says the U.S. has put billions of dollars into the Iraq war, when it could be helping poor countries with things like clean water, medical aid and education.

AUDIO: Excerpt from Harkin conference call (3 min MP3)

http://www.radioiowa.com/gestalt/go.cfm?objectid=020BFC...

[latebloomer]

65. good for Harkin!

That's what Democrats SHOULD be sayiig!

[stepnw1f]

75. This is LEADERSHIP

not this bullshit from Pelosi and Rangel.

[dharmabum65]

83. Give Tom Harkin a medal!

Finaly a Democrat that is willing to stand up to the BFEE!He knows like we do that Chavez speaks the truth and is exactly right about our leaders!

[Cha]

85. Oh man! Harkin has done what an

intelligent Dem would do..use this as a brilliant opportunity to get some bush history out Instead of calling Chavez a "thug". Nah, nah,nah nah nah nah.

[Jcrowley]

84. By this standard

Are only Iranian's entitled to criticise THEIR president? Do only N. Korean's have the exclusive right to say bad things about THEIR PM? And so on...