Fear and Loathing in this Democrat's home tonight. (a rant)

[Poll_Blind]

  Can we spring the god-damned trap yet? Because I'm getting sick of this "cleverly laying in wait" shit when it comes to dealing with the GOP and the President. This cleverly laying in wait shit, in fact, is starting to look a hell of alot less like a strategy and more like an excuse. Today I got The Fear because of the way Pelosi, Rangel, et al. handled the insult by Chavez on President Douche. It wrapped its bony fingers around my Liberty-loving balls and squeezed until I was squeaking and wild-eyed. Next week, a few weeks from now, when this torture legislation moves toward a vote, which will retroactively exonerate Bush and his torturing cronies, I'll forget about my poor balls because this Thing will be wrapped around my throat.

  I shall highlight the exact wording of Rangel's statement which, like Pelosi's calling of Chavez a "common thug", is overboard and conspicuously devoid of any recognition of the validity of Chavez's criticisms:

...together they can do, politically, what they see fit to do. But you don't come into my country, you don't come into my congressional district, and you don't condemn my president. If there is any criticism of President Bush it should be restricted to Americans, whether they voted for him or not. And I just want to make it abundantly clear to Hugo Chavez or any other president: Don't come to the United States and think, uh, because we have problems with our president, that any foreigner can come to our country and not think that Americans do not feel offended when you offend our chief of state.

Are there any questions?

I've said it all.

  I recommend checking out the video of Rangel's pronouncement on YouTube, just in case readers doubt my transcript.

  So let me get this straight: Bush is the Devil 24/7 at DU, Democratic or otherwise Liberty-loving enclaves until a foreign leader comes here and says so? Then, they've crossed the invisible International Bad Taste Line? I reject that...I entirely reject that as some valid, defensible idea or position.

  And also, now focusing on Rangel's comments: In the land that purports to be the land of Free Speech, you can't call the president the Devil? Oh, free speech about the president should be restricted to Americans? I see. I'm glad that we grant that courtesy to other leaders and set such a glorious example. In fact, of course, we do just the opposite, and regularly.

  Pelosi, Rangel, et al. (with the notable exception of Tom Harkin who did NOT follow this shtick) chose not to echo, one bit, the legitimate allegations against Bush which Chavez made. Not one BIT. That is conspicuous in it's absence. That's why you're seeing alot of people at DU who are quite pissed at the tactics and wording which Pelosi and Rangel used- or didn't use, as the case may be.

  Instead of calling Chavez a "common thug" or simply waving a wand as Rangel would and restrict all criticism of foreign leaders to their nations' citizens- wait, maybe he's just talking about U.S. Presidents- maybe they could have made a statement like this:

"While I disagree strongly with President Bush's deception which has led us into the costly and dangerous Iraq war, his assault on reproductive rights and his stunning assault on the division between church and state, I cannot agree with President Chavez when, even jokingly, he refers to Bush as the devil. Such rhetoric is not only unhelpful, it is un-statesmanlike. It is rhetoric like this which causes political problems to get worse, not to get better."

  Would that have been so difficult?

  There is a difference between calling rhetoric unhelpful or un-statesmanlike and vilifying a person for it, especially when we are talking about rhetoric against George W Bush who is, as the last 6 years have indicated to me, King Crazy Ass, right arm of the Beast of Tyranny.

  Does anyone think I crossed the line of Bad Taste there? Because I find 2,600+ fucking dead-dead-dead American soldiers, ten times that amount of Iraqi civilians a hell of alot more distasteful. Alot more.

  I just don't get what the shit the strategy is here- because it certainly isn't the "They're waiting for the right time to spring the decisive trap!" I've bought into up till now. Are they going to fucking stand up to the president or not? Now we've got this retroactive exoneration of Bush and his torturers coming up and I'd rather put a firecracker between my eye teeth than watch these people continue to "cleverly lay in wait" while this jack-off tyrant legalizes torture and his illegal actions, retroactively.

  For Christ's sake, it says...it says in The Constitution, Article I section 9:

No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

  No ex post facto laws, no retroactive laws. Are these people, this Democratic leadership, going to filibuster against this tyrannical bullshit? Because up till today I really didn't have too many doubts. Despite my anger at them, both Pelosi and Rangel have more-often-than-not pleased me greatly with their behavior.

  So who's going to hold my hand and tell me the Democratic leadership is going to do shit about this law after their performance today? Hell, who's going to slap me around and tell me I'm full of shit and that the Democratic leadership is going to do everything they can to keep Bush from legalizing some of the most vile behavior a president has been personally responsible for?

  Because at this point, I don't give a damn if you coddle me or smack me around, I'm losing hope that anyone can convince me, or themselves, that the Democratic leadership are going to stop this freight train or even slow it down.

PB

[texpatriot2004]

1. Viva Chavez! :-) you made some good points in your rant. nm

[grasswire]

2. well, Bill Clinton did say exactly what you want Dems to say

On Larry King Live Wednesday night. He said that although he (Clinton) has plenty of disagreement with Bush on policy matters, that he thinks Chavez made a mistake in calling Bush a devil and that it hurt Chavez and his country to call Bush names. He said that he has been trying to stop the politics of smear, because it was done to him, and he thinks it's so damaging.

[partylessinOhio]

8. Clinton hasn't been the same since his quack docs stopped his heart.

He really needs to stop and smell the roses and cease playing footsy with the Booshes. His "new" family will slay Hillary if she even attempts to run.

[European Socialist]

3. Fear and loathing here too, but no surprise--Dem's caving in for years now

[Poll_Blind]

That may be but I refuse to accept it...if the Democratic Leadership...

...can't cut this giant, shaggy beast down, I'm not convinced anyone else can. And that, eventually, means you and me fighting over hard tack in a kennel somewhere in Gitmo 51.

  In my replies in threads today, several posters indicated that this is a problem with all politicians in the Beltway; they live in a bubble. That may be true, but what kind of bubble is it that a Democratic politician utter words in reference to George Bush and not, somewhere, somehow, refer to him however obliquely or eloquently, as a glue-sniffing shit-eating bastard?

  I've seen Senator Byrd do it, and do it well. I don't care if the Democrats are all on the same page about alot of things but, hell, Bush should be one of them.

PB

[LibertyorDeath]

4. Brilliant post...

Rec!

[OwnedByFerrets]

5. Right ON!

Great post. Every progressive Ive talked to today was cheering Chavez. The people in the street loved what he said. When will the "dems in charge" start listening to the people?

[Poll_Blind]

I genuinely don't know. I mean, I can't honestly say they're..

...Republicans with different lapel pins, but come on, have I NOT been the only Liberal whittling away my anger and frustration at this reprehensible behavior waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, until someone damn-well sounded the charge? Did someone lose the horn?

PB

[me b zola]

37. When we grow our own candidates & fire the Dems in charge

Seriously. I've been biting my tongue because we are close to the election, and we seriously need to take the Congress @ any cost. But after the midterms it's time for the gloves to come off and pound it to those who have not been representing their constituency.

I was actually thinking about the question that you pose earlier today and it occurred to me that the reason that the Dems don't listen to their base like the rethugs do is because the rethug base is manufactured--they created it and control it. The Dems don't have control over their base so they ignore us---no, they distance themselves from us and say disparaging things about us.

Ultimately power has to be in control, and if those in power cannot control the people whom they "represent" they will ignore us. After the mid-terms, things have got to change.

[dkofos]

90. When they are voted out and replaced by a Ned Lamont

[mmonk]

6. I'll leave you with this quote

"There is not going to be some savior from the Democratic Party. This whole idea of putting our hopes and energies into "leaders" who tell us to seek common ground with fascists and religious fanatics is proving every day to be a disaster, and actually serves to demobilize people."
worldcantwait.org

It's up to us to save ourselves, to mobilize, maybe to come up with a plan.
Me.

[midnight]

14. Ok do you got any good ideas, or should we just start screaming

that they broke the law.

[mmonk]

23. Seems to be more than what's been going on out there

so that would be a start. I guess join in the day of mass resistence. Work email campaigns, put the law in an op-ed or ad. Anything and everything.

[Poll_Blind]

27. You're right, and I don't expect a savior, per se. But if today is...

...any indication of some prevalent attitude or world-view, it's going to be a an uphill battle to say the least. Not that I've got anything against those: Any uphill battles I don't fight now, my children will have to and the hill will be a hell of alot bigger when their turn comes.

PB

[Mnemosyne]

7. Bravo PB, Bravo! There are so few

in DC that are actually trying to fight the regime by calling lies lies, and bullcrap bullcrap.

You have nailed it in word and spirit. :applause: :applause: :applause:

[TomInTib]

9. What should we expect when every single elected official is compromised?

Every fucking one of them.

Bought and sold or blackmailed, makes no difference.

Reccomendation #10, here, P_B.

[Poll_Blind]

19. You gotta understand Tom, there's a world of difference between...

...the shit I say to other Progressives when we're alone and shit we believe in our hearts to be true. I just can't believe that things could be this far gone. Harkin, and Harkin's got a goddamned angelic glow around him right now in my world, is the the only one (maybe aside from Bill Clinton) who even acknowledged that Bush was swine before he started chipping on Chavez. This has little to do with Chavez and alot to do with the priorities that are being placed on defending criticism of the President.

  As I said in another thread, how bad would Bush have to have been for Pelosi and Rangel to agree, or at least cut out the personal attacks for what appears to me to be earth-shakingly uncontroversial commentary about Bush?

  The only thing he even remotely surpasses even in the worst president is paranoia and the desire to see how close he can get to being that image of Washington inside the Capitol Rotunda.



  And that is a fearful and grim spectre of idiocy beyond all others.

PB

[TomInTib]

22. I will get back to you after the break..

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Tom

[Union Thug]

10. The dems are looking pretty damned pathetic all of the sudden...

I'm getting worried too. Why can't our so-called leaders call an ass an ass? "My president...?" What a fucking joke. He's not my president. Don't speak for me rangel and pelosi. Bush is even worse than Chavez's description and he is perfectly welcome to come to this country and say it. Bush a liar, a torturer, spoiled rotten rich boy literally getting away with murder. Don't rush to this pathetic pile of excrement's defense. Chavez called it like it is. Deal with it.

[Dr.Phool]

18. Message to Rangel: The UN is international territory.

It's not in your congressional district! Technically, it's not even part of the United States.

Our "leadership".

While everyone is getting giddy about polling numbers, I can almost see a defeat of historic proportions coming for us in November. I'm sorry, but our weak kneed "leaders" are screwing the pooch big time!

[Poll_Blind]

28. You know, that bit about the UN isn't just some unimportant factoid...

...either. To listen to Rangle you'd think that Chavez personally inserted a pentagram-shaped IUD in Lady Liberty's holiest of holies in the middle of Ellis Island at Noon on the Fourth of July. The UN IS neutral territory. Just like every damned embassy's land is considered the territory of that nation.

  But you know, when we have a populace who seem to be preoccupied with the question "How did all OUR oil get under THEIR sand?", I have a feeling the distinction is lost.

PB

[serryjw]

11. Did the 'devil' not

overthrow Chavez in 2002?? The man has a right to be pissed.
http://www.axisoflogic.com/cgi-bin/exec/view.pl?archive=85&num=15255

[Poll_Blind]

31. Yes, good point! I was glad to see a fair number of people pointing....

...this out in the various threads today. When you try to overthrow and assassinate a Democratically-elected leader, someone wrote, it leaves a bad impression. Indeed!

PB

[serryjw]

41. What the hell did Chavez say that most

of the world doesn't agree with?..actually come to think of it, it was the nicest thing I heard him called in 6 years? Would be prefer liar, thief?

[Poll_Blind]

42. That's a good point, because Chavez said it jokingly, mugged a bit, got...

..some laughs (especially after briefly genuflecting) and went on to other, more serious matters. As I've said before, the fact that some could not choke down these entirely reasonable, clearly intended and taken in jest, comments is bullshit.

PB

[Individualist]

12. I'm ranting with you

Sometimes (most times) it seems as if we've stepped through the looking glass. :(

[MuseRider]

13. Best rant I have seen in a long

time. Thank you. I gave up on them a while back but this even surprises me.

No guts, none at all.

[Gregorian]

15. I believe the excuse is that we don't have the majority of Congress.

My very first post, before the war aggression, was IMPEACH BUSH. My enthusiasm for getting rid of bush was restrained by the fact that nothing could be done about getting rid of him. And I suspect that Congress feels powerless.

But I love your post. And feel exactly as you do. And I think that there are no excuses. The truth be known. In whatever form it may take. Polite or not. We have been polite. So now it's time to exercise the truth in a way that may offend some.

Time is up.

[chill_wind]

16. You've said it all. K&R. nt

[pat_k]

17. Silenced by a system of irrational beliefs -- Beliefs we must CHALLENGE

As long as we still have freedom of movement and a voice we can go to their offices and ASK, "What are you thinking??" We can challenge their answers. We can shame them and show them how insane they sound when they try to tip toe around the moral imperative to Impeach Bush and Cheney.

Face-to-face, back and forth dialog with staffers and members of Congress is absolutely essential if we are to elicit and challenge their screwed up beliefs.

From http://january6th.org/impeachment-clobber-rationalizations.html

. . .
A vast majority of our leaders (whether elected officials or citizen advocates) are in denial -- stubbornly carrying on, "politics as usual." (e.g., offering plans to fascists, defining and seeking to sell policies and programs, lobbying for future legislation, or calling for investigations to make sure it -- whatever it is -- doesn't happen again). . .

Some simple truths and moral principles are all we need to cut through the rationalizations that feed denial.

. . .

The most serious problem members of the Democratic Party face is the perception that they are weak

Contrary to what many Democratic strategists believe, the perception of weakness has NOTHING to do with stance on national security. It is rooted in:

• The reticence that centrists seem to have when it comes to accusation and punishment. (Something the right clearly revels in.) Instead of going after wrong-doers, Democratic leaders seek to "investigate" or "make sure it doesn't happen again" (and the Republicans chuckle, "Gee, for a minute there, I though they were actually going to do something.")


• The tendency to refrain from fighting the good fights for "practical" or "strategic" reasons. Members of the Democratic Party may believe they are "picking fights wisely," but to observers, it appears they spend all their time predicting defeat and "saving their energy" for fights they can win. Outsiders looking in do not see "wise selection," they see cowardice. When the rare "winnable fight" does materialize, it is often for some incremental step or practical end that inspires no one.

Bottom line: You can't fight terrorism if you can't fight Bush. How can members of the Democratic Party expect Americans to believe they can stand up to terrorists, if they can't stand up to the man who terrorized Americans into war with threats of "mushroom clouds in 45 minutes"?

. . .

[OwnedByFerrets]

30. Are WE so far outside the mainstream?

Are we the abnormal ones? Sometimes I wonder if our so called leaders in the democratic party dont listen to us because we are such a minority?
But then again, they should be doing these "right" things just because they are RIGHT AND JUST.

[pat_k]

38. A tiny fraction populates the insular beltway society. They are the ones

. . . who are out of step.

The problem is the massive disconnect between insiders vs. outsiders. Only a tiny fraction are "insiders." The vast majority of us are "outsiders" -- outsiders ARE the mainstream.

The labels -- liberal, conservative, progressive, right, left -- have become so loaded they have lost all objective meaning.

We are not even dealing with a divide between left v. right positions on "issues."

We are dealing with fascists v. anti-fascists; insiders v. outsiders; weakness v. strength.

Insiders v. Outsiders

You may be too young to remember, but not very long ago, politics wasn't viewed as the exclusive purview of the "professionals." Countless communities had vital Democratic Clubs and other associations where Americans experienced "politics" first hand. It wasn't always pretty, but people socialized, chose leaders, made decisions, and took civic action.

Over the decades, people have been pushed out of their own game. These days, the "professionals" run the show and they are VERY protective of their turf.

For the Al Froms of the world, we are game pieces that they -- the "professionals" -- manipulate. Heaven forbid any of us actually get involved! They may not even know WHY they feel so threatened when folks like Dean or Hackett inspire citizens to act, but their fear has absolutely nothing to do with the candidate's' positions on issues.

Weakness v. Strength

The BIGGEST problem members of the Democratic Party face is the perception that they are weak and unprincipled. We are as pissed off as we are because, instead of fulfilling their Congressional oath, and challenging their wimpy image, by standing up and demanding Impeachment, they are adding salt to the wound by "laying low" or appeasing the fascists by assuring them they have no intention of Impeaching Bush and Cheney.

But the beliefs that underlie their rationalizations have been hammered into them by those around them. Countless actions are unthinkable in their world, for reasons they don't even understand.

It's About Us -- Not the Party. Not our Leaders.

The bottom line is that the insiders are protecting their turf from us. They live in a world of Republican propaganda. Their fear of "backlash" has little to do with public reaction -- what they really fear being ostracized from the DC social scene.

WE are the REAL danger to their insular world. We are everywhere. We can insert some reality and prompt them to take action that will get them frowned on at Sally Quinn's next event.

But, we can also reward them -- like we rewarded Barbara Boxer for standing up on January 6th with a surge of support, dollars, and respect.

Our immediate goals are clear: Impeach Bush and Cheney and reject the results of suspect elections. Actions large and small will make these goals a reality. As we move forward, we need to remember that, however they fail or anger us, we can't let it just be about them. Ultimately, it is about figuring out how to use our power to see that our will is done.

[halobeam]

62. What a great response to this OP...

[OwnedByFerrets]

68. Thank you for such a well thought out reply. nt

[dharmabum65]

20. Its just pathetic

How are we ever going to accomplish anything with people like Pelosi,Rangel and Clinton representing us.Why are they so capitulating,worthless and cowardly.Clinton has become especialy disgusting.How on earth can he continue to suck up to these fascists after what they did to him.What a pathetic sellout he has become.

[Poll_Blind]

24. I sure as hell am not giving up on them yet because if I do...

...I'm going to wind up wandering the streets talking to the faces on my paper money and asking them where it went so goddamned wrong. No, they've got a chance with this torture legislation, a chance to redeem themselves. This bullshit today- I don't want to see it happen again. This attitude from today is not going to get us out from under the King's fat rump.

PB

[magellan]

44. How long are you willing to wait?

Because Bush** threw his Rose Garden tantrum last Friday, and it's now a week later, and I'm still waiting to see/hear the Democratic public response of outrage to that. Meanwhile Pelosi and Rangel were mighty quick to find a camera and publicly flog Chavez for referring to Bush** as the devil.

So how long are we supposed to wait for a similar response regarding Bush** and his efforts to legalize TORTURE?

I'll tell you, personally, I've now lost hope.

Great rant, PollBlind, recommended.

[Poll_Blind]

47. Thanks, and I have no idea. What the question really boils...

...down to is when do I give up hope on the last, best, chance at freeing this country from a certain growing brand of Tyrany. How do I say it? The Democratic Party is not the only diner in town. But it happens to be the only one that serves my favorite dishes and the only one open 24/7. Right now, that's looking alot more like an I-HOP than a late-night five-star bistro, but I'm hoping they fire the cooks or at least give them some better recipes.

  I've lost hope exactly twice in my life and both times it had terrible repercussions which I am not willing to endure again for anything this trivial, in comparison. Losing hope is losing Hope. It's turning away from the sun, nomatter how cloud-addled for a long, intentional, sullen march into hopelessness.

  I cannot easily or casually recommend it, especially with the framework that we have in the Democratic Party.

  But it's a shitty, shitty going right now.

  Oddly, or maybe not-so-oddly, I'm reminded of some Leonard Cohen lyrics in relation to this shameful derilection of duty:

Field Commander Cohen, 1979 (?)

Field Commander Cohen, he was our most important spy.
Wounded in the line of duty,
parachuting acid into diplomatic cocktail parties,
urging Fidel Castro to abandon fields and castles.

Leave it all and like a man,
come back to nothing special,
such as waiting rooms and ticket lines,
silver bullet suicides,
and messianic ocean tides,
and racial roller-coaster rides
and other forms of boredom advertised as poetry.

I know you need your sleep now,
I know your life's been hard.
But many men are falling,
where you promised to stand guard.

I never asked but I heard you cast your lot along with the poor.
But then I overheard your prayer,
that you be this and nothing more
than just some grateful faithful woman's favourite singing millionaire,
the patron Saint of envy and the grocer of despair,
working for the Yankee Dollar.

I know you need your sleep now ...

Ah, lover come and lie with me, if my lover is who you are,
and be your sweetest self awhile until I ask for more, my child.
Then let the other selves be wrong, yeah, let them manifest and come
till every taste is on the tongue,
till love is pierced and love is hung,
and every kind of freedom done, then oh,
oh my love, oh my love, oh my love,
oh my love, oh my love, oh my love.

PB

[magellan]

53. I haven't given up hope on that yet

I still believe we can turn this country from tyranny. I'm not sure how, but I know as you do that the Dems are where we should put our marbles for now. Which is why I'm here. I'm not a Dem; I'm a liberal Indy who has consistently voted for the Dems since '92. They are the best chance we've got. If they don't pull it together, the future is unthinkable. And that's why I've grown increasingly desperate and demoralized by their utter failure, time and again, to publicly renounce Bush** and the Repugs.

DSM.
Abu Ghraib.
Gitmo.
Patriot Act.
Patriot Act II.
Warrantless, illegal domestic wiretapping.
Faith-based government.
Terrorizing the populace for votes.
Election fraud.
Government-approved no-bid contracts to corrupt corporations like Halliburton.
Katrina
All the zillions of lies, questionable activity and misrepresentations in between, which in some cases are just as important but are too many to list.
And now...CIA secret prisons and TORTURE.

And again we have Silence!

I don't know a whole lot about it, but it seems to me this mirrors the end of the Democratic Weimar Republic in some notable ways. Or the Vichy regime in France.

I want to find a way to wake the Dems up because they aren't listening. The American people are angry, but they don't see their rage being reflected by anyone in government. There is nothing more disheartening. (I know; I fell into a deep depression following Katrina because the only people yelling were Anderson Cooper and Shepard Smith, and I turned off my tv and didn't visit DU for six months.) Once that happens they might begin to wonder if maybe they've got things wrong. Maybe they start listening to the other guy, because they don't know the truly terrible stuff about them that we do here and they aren't being given a decent counterpoint -- unless they listen to AAR or watch Countdown or Democracy Now!.

Or maybe they just decide they won't participate in politics anymore, and stop voting, and concern themselves with their insular lives. The idea of Americans disengaging because they feel no one represents them should concern the Dems very much.

There's only one solution and it's for the Dems to stop putting politics and propriety above principle and START YELLING. To everyone and anyone who'll listen.

The fact that they haven't yet, while the Repubs are now at the point that they're trying to approve Bush**'s little shop of horrors for detainees, just makes me despair.

[Poll_Blind]

56. You know, thank you for promulgating those things. I realize it's not...

...comprehensive or particularly meant to be, but it nicely fuels the rest of your commentary and it really punches your points well. In fact that's worthy of it's own thread as far as I'm concerned, it would certainly get my recommendation.

  I can't say I entirely, empirically, agree with your commentary about the lack of rage reflected in anyone "in government"(presumed to mean our party's elected officials). Firebrands like Sen. Robert Byrd do bring the appropriate level of outrage and an eloquent, poetic and persuasive execution of it, which help keep the fires stoked in many of us. However, overall, I deeply agree with your sentiment. There needs to be a culture of outrage You're right, until our politicians but especially our party moves as one giant, damning, judging, glowing sword to smite the Republican party we won't begin to contend as seriously as we should and could with their own well-forged and galvanized attack.

  We even have a name for it: The Republican Attack Machine. Where...where is the Democratic Attack Machine which should be running like Hell's wood-chipper on these right-wing bastards 24 hours a day? Why isn't every Democratic representative working a sentence, driving into every response to every question being asked by the media, containing some damning fact about the GOP? Because you have thousands, maybe 10,000 solid, absolutely damnable acts by the GOP/President that have taken in the last 6 years. I realize our ideology precludes a certain despicable lock-step style of uniformity but something more concerted to match the effective organization of the right denies us not at all of our broad set of beliefs and could help us much.

  Without it, I too worry about those who have, for defensible or indefensible reasons, chosen to "tune out" or, more concerningly "tuned in" someone else. I have to admit, I can only assume the possibility must exist in some mathematical sense: I find it really hard to imagine that someone who was not, deep down, one of us could actually turn to the Dark Side. But I have to concede your wording is evocative of a reality I can't deny. Overall disengagement is also, though not as thoroughly, disturbing.

PB

[halobeam]

67. I second the request for your post to have it's own thread...

I'd recommend it too....

Yes. Dems should worry most about people disengaging because they aren't being represented. A most EXCELLENT, VALID point.

[thinks4herself]

86. Clinton may appear to be a sellout, but he's not...

He's using the fools, the hoarding capitalists... He's getting them to handover their money and time for important causes. The guy is amazing! He cannot accomplish this by insulting them.

[Canuckistanian]

21. Chavez may have gone overboard in his rhetoric

But, damn, he sure nailed it on the spirit of his message.

Shrub and his crew are the worst things to hit America (and the world) since..... well, I can't think of any specific administration, but Harding and Grant come close. And this is 'way beyond Nixon. Nixon was amateur hour compared to these wraiths.

That Rangel and Pelosi got it SO wrong in their responses proves what? That they want to keep a civil discourse? They want to defend the system they've dedicated their lives to?

FUCK THAT.

You think for a nanosecond this group of sociopaths would even consider having a two-way dialog on governance? Get real.

They've got the plan, and they're going balls-to-the-wall to make sure they get it. No matter WHO wins in '06. Or '08. Or beyond (see Supreme Court appointments). Even the Christianists are mere pawns in their game. And right now, they're having orgasms over the power they think they yield.

No, Chavez wasn't wrong. A touch of dramatic hyperbole, to be sure. But not basically wrong.

These people are criminal. And they've managed to get away with it.

And they will continue, as long as THEY CONTROL THE MESSAGE.

:grr:

[Poll_Blind]

60. Well-said! n/t

PB

[Canuckistanian]

63. Thanks, and well said yourself, also! n/t

[slipslidingaway]

25. That was wonderful and for tomorrow call, call, call and ask

will they vote with the Constitution or against it.


snip from your post>>>

For Christ's sake, it says...it says in The Constitution, Article I section 9:


No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

[TahitiNut]

26. It should be obvious.

The mighty American Incorporated Empire can invade and occupy other countries, assassinate leaders of other countries, fund and foment overthrows of leaders of other countries, 'employ' the lower classes in those countries for a small fraction of the value of their labor, rape their lands of resources (bribing their neocolonial dictators), but no head of state of any other country can be permitted the freedom of speech that's (supposedly) an inalienable right of all human beings because (totally contrary to the word inalienable) he's an ALIEN!!!

Any questions? :eyes:

[babylonsister]

32. Yes, I have a question. Have you sent this to Rangel and Pelosi? nt

[TahitiNut]

35. Nope. Ms. Pelosi's web site blocks messages from non-constituents.

I'm sure her campaign funding accounts aren't so "fastidious."

:eyes:

[serryjw]

46. WTF? I thought she was the democratic

leadership for ALL of us?

[TahitiNut]

50. Well, I could lie and give my old California address, but it still wouldn'

... be in her district. (Mike Honda was my Congressman there.) When I filled in her web mail form, it kicked back and said it wouldn't accept messages from other than her constituents - apparently by zip code. When I went to her leadership site, I couldn't find any feedback or contact information. I could probably find her email address, but I'm guessing it's filtered.

:shrug: Emailing my Representative, Joe Knollenberg (R-Hell), wouldn't do shit.

[serryjw]

51. Would you say we are in trouble?

n/t

[Hell Hath No Fury]

82. Write it up...

and FAX IT TO HER!

I always send a fax, never an email. I send my rant yesterday, and boy it felt good! :D

202-225-8259

[d_b]

29. That's what....gives me The Fear.

[Broken Top]

33. Fear & Loathing in This Democrat's Home

I agree with you and I don't know what it is going to take for
folks to understand the Democratic Party is dead.  We have
watched over the past 5 + years as they cave time after time.
Their inability to take to task the Administration and its
sycophant followers for the horrendous foreign and domestic
policies thrust upon the nation is sickening. Their fear of
criticizing this -this thieving, murdering, war mongering,
love of torture, elitist, corrupt politician who believes he
was sent by God to ruin constitutional democracy will continue
to allow the GSP (Goose Stepping Party)to run roughshod over
our rights. Personally, I cheered Chavez because he at least
has the courage of his convictions and I'm not surprised the
Dems are publicly wringing their hands in horror because they
are running scared. What a sorry lot. Only a fool would think
this spineless bunch could defeat the goose steppers even if
the election process was fair.
As of this very moment, CSpan 2 is showing the House judiciary
sub-committee debating the impeachment of Judge Real of the
9th Circuit Court.  We all know Congress' majority engineered
this impeachment merely to rid the court of this man simply
because he has handed down decisions they don't like. The
purges are only beginning.  Worse is yet to come and I see no
one on the horizon to turn the tide of Fascism that is
galloping into our lives. 
When you have an individual such as Will Marshall, a known
right winger, as spokesperson for the Democratic Leadership
Council, you know you're not dealing with honest to God
Democrats, but frauds of the first order. 
 

[Oilwellian]

34. Best rant of the day

And I totally agree. :kick:

[tomreedtoon]

36. An almost similar post on this subject...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2190561

[Poll_Blind]

39. And he's got a damned good point- this sort of behavior by....

...people like Pelosi and Rangel is just off the chart when it comes to how a Democrat would expect a Democrat to respond in a similar situation. That there's such a disconnect, and come on, has there been a filibuster recently if ever by the Democratic leadership, against Bush? Good God, if there was ever a president who deserved a face full of filibusters, it's President Douche. I've said it like 3 times today, but after the response by Rangel and Pelosi, I half-expected them and the GOP leadership to rush down to the steps of the Capitol to sing The National Anthem together in a panicked show of unity.

  I can't quite tell you what American politics is, today, but I can tell you what it ain't: Anything having to do with compromise, bipartisanship or any other maudlin view of politics framed in the nostalgia of Rockwell's watercolors. It's predatory, it's partisan, it's ugly. And the losers get to share a kennel cage at Gitmo.

  Since Bush's FIRST WEEK...remember, get in the waaaaaay back machine cause it seems a lifetime ago (for me anyway), every day of that first week, every god-damned day, he committed some now atrocity against the framework we'd set in place.

  All the while, like a child telling a lie so big they hoped you'd never guess it was a sham, quoting about his "Mandate of the People!". A sonuvabitch if I ever saw one.

  He's eating and extra meal so he'll have enough offal to shit over everything that America represents and here our leadership takes umbrage at his criticism.

  That's "fantastic", hard to believe and surrounded by a halo of unreality which has many Dems up and thoroughly-pissed tonight.

PB

[Egnever]

40. And what a beautiful rant it is!

Well done!

[Poll_Blind]

43. The Apotheosis of Bush...coming to a Capitol rotunda near YOU!

"And that is a fearful and grim spectre of idiocy beyond all others."

PB

[Rainscents]

45. MR. Rangel...

First of all, Bush is NOT my president and STFU!!!

BTW: Great rant and I agree with everything you'd said! :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Poll_Blind]

52. Something else occurred to me, and it gets to the heart of the matter:

What have Pelosi and Rangel (et al.) gained for the Democratic party from these statements? Over, say, just keeping quiet. Would it have not been sufficient to keep mum on the matter? There was certainly no particular public outcry for the Democrats to respond.

  I need help understanding that. Because this is politics. Maybe if someone had used a time-machine to transport Democrats from a less-partisan time in American history could I see this being an expected response. Bush's very first day in office he's been shitting all over us, first on his imaginary "Mandate of the People" and later on his "War President" shtick.

  And it's not let up.

  Why, then? What does it gain us over just keeping our mouths shut and letting the Republicans fend off the verbal attacks from Chavez?

  I think it's a pretty damned-good question.

PB

[opihimoimoi]

48. Where is DEAN in all of this?...without a Commander the Army is lost

[vanboggie]

49. Outstanding Rant

You said what I think but don't put into words so eloquently. Pelosi lost me when she tried to start talking about GOD after the 04 election was stolen. It was so fake it was pathetic. Did the woman acctually believe the it was the Fundie vote that put him in office? It appeared that way. When she should have been screaming about election fraud, she was instead trying to be like the facists.

They ARE going to steal the mid-terms, and the fear and loathing exists in more homes than BushCo and the Dems believe.

Great rant - K&R.

[Poll_Blind]

54. I don't follow Pelosi as closely as you do and have no broader...

...commentary on her.

  I will say this though in regards to your second-to-last-sentence: I read Democratic Underground nearly every day and, of course, find things here and there of interest to comment on. Something I have been noticing alot of over the course of the years here and have hardly, if ever, commented-on is the cyclical shift from self-congratulatory messages of presumed success to messages of presumed defeat in elections. This is not directed at your message, mind you, but it did strike a chord: I have no idea how things are going to shake out but ending like a week, two weeks ago was a block of messages posted over the course of a month or more which, generally, predicted a resounding success. I do not particularly subscribe to the belief that we're going to lose our shirt in this next one but I will say, and I believe strongly and with reason that I am not alone in this, that my ability to emotionally invest in these elections has decreased over the years. I'm still willing to work for them, but we have been burned...burned so many times (remember the fresh hell of "Rather-Gate"?) on emotional investments that I and many others (possibly yourself as well) have acquired something of a 1000-yard-stare when it comes to this business.

  I hope we do well. Lord Almighty knows this country needs it.

PB

[vanboggie]

91. Agreed this country needs it

My hope comes in other forms now, such as RFKJr. bringing election fraud into the mainstream. It has been good to see Lou Dobbs start beating the drum on that front.

Another hope is that the vote will be so tremedously in favor of the Dems that Rove and his guard at Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia will not be able to tamper as they have in the past.

I have hope, but as you say it is a bit jaded now. It's a self-protection instinct inspired by the disappointment following stolen election 2004.

[ClayZ]

55. Viva Chavez

[earth mom]

57. Great Rant! eom

[eridani]

58. Hey, if they didn't want to be caught dead agreeing with Chavez--

--then what about STFU as a live option?

[Poll_Blind]

59. I'm eerily reminded of Franklin quotes involving "remove all doubt."

Indeed. Not a bad option in this situation.

PB

[elehhhhna]

61. LET'S SLAM FREE SPEECH on the same day we make Torture LEGAL!

woo hoo. mutherfluckers, all.

[cali]

64. I suggest you take a

few deep breaths and then read Skinner's post on this absurd tempest in a teapot.

[OwnedByFerrets]

75. I cant find his comments. Can you point the way?

[bigtree]

83. Do you really expect the OP to say 'never mind?"

I don't think you understand at all that folks are fed up with the calculating bullshit that some want to make us believe is the way to 'win elections.' Some things are just important enough on their own merits to stand up for and defend. Now, Chavez spoke in humor, nto to be taken so seriously when he called Bush Devil. It was a joke. It masked the deep anger he must feel toward our country's meddling in Venezuela.

He relayed a message of deep frustration and anger at the arrogance of the leader of the mighty U.S.A. who thinks every other country should bow down before him because of his ability to unleash his killing machine. Goddanm it, I"M pissed. And, I don't think any lily-livered approach is going to convince our OWN voters to the polls, much less convince the conservatives and republicans that so many seem to want to bend over backward to avoid offending. What the hell about OUR OWN needs and desires? What about OUR OWN core constituency, which is liberal, which is virulently anti-war and anti-militarism, whether folks want to face that or not. My view is that there is plenty of conservative and republican crap floating around that should have blown Americans away. If they are put off by our OWN legitimate anger then I say tough shit. I won't compromise my principals or gag myself just to appease the imperialistic, war loving, torture loving, cretins in the opposition or elsewhere.

[emald]

65. there is no hope

gwbushit has totally trounced our constitution and he will get his pet bill allowing him to skate on his criminality. Democrats are full of shit; we will wait forever for them to get a set of balls and stand up for the real america, it ain't gonna happen. Fuck all these pols, we are a lost country. Greed has done us in. Get ready for the fall, it's gonna happen. dumb and dumber are running this country and steering us into disaster. Already done.

[OwnedByFerrets]

66. Why is this NOT on the front page??? nt

[halobeam]

69. Don't know, but it would be wise.

[oc2002]

70. ITs not on the front page because this board is too DLCish. to do it.

yep. I am thouroughly disgusted with the Democratic leadership of our party. Chavez hands them a gift and they throw it back in his face like they (the Dems) do not need it...

The spinles, gutless democratic LOSER LEADERS are going down the road to nowhere.

[BlueEyedSon]

71. Right.... the correct response is, no, Bush is not the Devil - he just

acts like he is.

[oc2002]

72. no no, he is EL DIABLO! EL DIABLO!

EL DIABLO!

[MamaBear]

73. They're Keeping their Powder Dry

They're keeping their powder dry for a REAL emergency, because Iraq, Katrina, John Birch supreme court justices, torture, illegal surveillance and now retroactive legislation is no big deal.

As long as the checks from the corporate greats keep rolling in.

We have waited long and been too trusting and we are now betrayed, screwed and doomed.

But they still have all that dry powder to use on us.

[OwnedByFerrets]

74. Boy, it sure seems as though you are right.

It gets really depressing sometimes. I just dont know what Im gonna do if Nov doesnt go in americas favor.

[blindpig]

76. That's the Invisible Hand that's gotcha, friend.

Capitalism, which truly rules this country, both parties.

[Annces]

77. Just think of all the free speech Bush has squelched

at every turn, at speaking events, medias persons like Rather and Helen, Joe Wilson, on and on. And then someone from another country does some performance art on Bush. I welcome it.

[wiggs]

78. Not only an articulate post, but important...

I worry that we are relying on a group of people to do something that desperately needs to be done...but they're either not up to it or they are unwilling to help.

Pollblind...you could have written this post about any number of issues going back almost 6 years.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

79. Amen, brother!

I feel your pain. :)

I don't know, I've lost faith in the vast majority of Dems, and shit like this makes it even harder to stay positive.

I will say this, if they choose not to fight the torture shit with everything they have, I am done with them.

[Tigermoose]

80. K & R for the people!

nt

[bigtree]

81. this is the type of anger and committment that sustains a movement

we need this kind of representation, not the 'go along, get along' type we've been saddled with since Bush came to town.

K&R

[latebloomer]

84. k&r

You said it all!

:yourock:

[OwnedByFerrets]

85. 69 votes and NO front page

Kinda sad, isnt it?

[Poll_Blind]

88. If you have't had a taste...you should, if only briefly, check out THESE:

Sometimes on DU we have some pretty silly litmus tests for elected Dems...

If you want to ally yourself with Chavez, you're as dumb as Sheehan.

Beware of DUers trying to stir up resentment against the Democrats

:shrug:

PB

[laundry_queen]

87. Most excellent rant, AND thread. K&R'ed!!!! n/t

[eppur_se_muova]

89. WTF?? Rangel said that? Or his alien pod "duplicate" ?

I was never in Rangel's district, but I used to hear him saying some things I agreed with. Wa' hoppen'??

[Justice Is Comin]

92. Kudos to you patriot.

I'm seething about trying to distinguish the capitualtion from the cajones.

This country is on a fast track to a Hitler dejavu. And the things our "leaders" who are supposed to be the firewall from allowing this to ever happen, choose to vent their outrage about the one who points out the prick wearing the Swastika.

Knee meet nuts and you hit the nail right on the head.

[DemInDistress]

93. Chavez was too soft on that idiot king,,a devil was just too polite

he should have called him a, POS POTUS. who failed to catch the worst terrorist in all history, trashed the greatest economic power ever, made the greatest nation in all time a pariah nation, and now looks to discard the best protections for captured soldiers obsolete Geneva Convention.

Even a piece of shit is less a trouble than this current miserable failure who all his life failed miserably.

shame on rangel.

Good story Poll_Blind

[Poll_Blind]

94. I agree, but after all, the extent of his commentary on President Douche..

...was an opening joke before his speech. In my first draft of this response to you, I included some other facts about how this is playing on DU but even as obliquely-worded as I was able to craft them I was still shaving it a bit too close. I'll leave it at that.

Thanks again,

PB

[JRob]

95. They'll stand up when the GOP stands down... Uh, just a sec., oh yeah

They're not going to!!! If you look at the long list of shit that's gone down, opportunities missed (ignored), this can not end well (although somewhere inside I want to believe justice will triumph.

I'm sick of waiting too! Been sick for six f*@King years!

And I though the same thing about Rangel's comment "you can't call the president the Devil? Oh, free speech about the president should be restricted to Americans?" Want a load of crap. I saw it live and was laughing my ass off. Yeah he might have been more of a Statesman, but that's not his style. Can you really argue with him? Or even with a lot of what Ahmadinejad expresses (sans the annihilating Israel rhetoric of course).

Makes me need a medication!

[MasonJar]

96. Excuse me, Charlie, but Chavez came to the United Nations which

just happens to be located in the USA. He has the right to say what he wants on the floor of the UN, especially since every word he uttered is actually factual and universally accepted throughout the civilized (and uncivilized) world. Chavez is probably more than a little annoyed that the Bush crime family did all it could to override his totally legitimate election by masterminding an attempted coup. The Bushevics are well versed in election deception and fraud or we would have a real president of stature and dignity and sense and intelligence and perhaps even a little compassion (not conservative-style) thrown in. So much for the Bush/Cheney version of democracy. We all know the type of elections the Bushites support: the Harris and Blackwell and eliminate democratic voters from the rolls version. Chavez has witnessed what the Bush crime family did in Haiti to the democratically elected president. Any kudos "sprayed" on the self-proclaimed emperor come unabashedly from the neo-con lackeys.

[katinmn]

97. Well stated, pb. I think that too many people are waiting for "our"

leaders to be accepted and blessed by the media, and then we can start following them. But for Dennis Kucinich who has already sounded the alarm on the war on Iran, we don't have a leader...in this country anyway...who is ready to speak the truth to the people.

They are too busy manipulating each other to help us.