Beware of DUers trying to stir up resentment against the Democrats

[brentspeak]

from now until Election Day.

It doesn't matter whether they are "angry progressives" or RW trolls playing psy-ops by pretending to be angry progressives ; all that matters is that they are trying, either willingly or unwillingly, to help Republicans get elected and reelected this Election Day by getting you pi$$ed off at the Democrats.

Ignore them. Vote Democratic on Election Day. Support your local Democratic candidates, if you have the time. Do what you can to replace the Republican majority with a Democratic majority, so that this nation -- our nation -- can finally have a fighting chance to move forward, as well as to undo the damage wrought to it by Bush and his cronies.

:patriot: :dem:

[Skidmore]

1. This is really helpful.

Clicking heels, saluting smartly, and getting in line. Cause I don't want to be accused of being a smelly RW troll varmint.

[natrat]

27. hmm

[geek tragedy]

40. Case in point. eom

[Skidmore]

52. Meaning what?

[geek tragedy]

77. Well, let's see. Treating party discipline and the need to

boost turnout and avoid the circular firing squad as a mode of fascist suppression.

Raise hell with your Democratic representatives after the election. I intend to.

But, to have people trashing the entire Democratic party leadership because they say mean things about some foreign leader and talking about how hopeless things are because the Democrats are weak, losers, etc is doing Karl Rove's bidding.

[Skidmore]

91. Party discipline does not mean serving as the "me-too" party

or the party of the DLC if you don't agree with their policies. We're asking the leadership to speak with principle and to vote with integrity. Is that too much to expect in exchange for handing them power? Has nothing to do with Chavez. We are asking the leadership to have discipline and represent the platform they were elected on and the constituents who put them there.

[janx]

176. It possible you've misunderstood the OP. n/t

[elehhhhna]

164. Di y'allnotice this is called DEMOCRATIC Underground?

If you want to start up Moaner-whiner Underground, be our guest & don't let the door hit ya.

[Skidmore]

210. Elahhhhna, I've always had a tremendous amount of respect for you

and the thoughtfulness of your posts. However, I would hope that your interpretation of the word "democratic" would be slightly broader than your post is indicating. I would like to think that the Democratic Party would welcome feedback, even when it is critical. I posted elsewhere on this thread that I take my right to dissent very seriously. I did live for a decade in another nation where people just disappeared because of dissent. Because I'm a registered Democrat and vote accordingly where party designation is an issue, I am really disappointed that there appears to be a mindset in which any divergence from swearing 100% loyalty by virtue of the fact that someone at the top says something and it reverberates is being pushed. This is the very tactic that is driving the Republicans off the cliff. Why should Dems want that? Why should we not self-correct our course? I will not stand silent while the progress aspects of the Democratic Party are scorned and mocked because to gain seats some would have us become the other Republican Party. That is simply not right. How many votes have we followed on the House and Senate floor and in this very forum sent up a collective shout as to why our very own elected representatives did the "bipartisan" thing and turned their backs on our petitions for votes that reflected Democratic Party values? If this is "whining" so be it. I'll continue to "whine," not that it will have the desired effect of having representatives and senators actually support the people that elect them over the corporations that buy them.

Yes, this is the Democratic Underground, and the reason I subscribe to it is that I would hope there is one place which would reflect democratic values (both capital and lower case "d"). This is where I am coming from.

[BootinUp]

135. lol. n/t

[Mr_Spock]

86. hypocrisy squared?

Where does it end?

[Skidmore]

95. Try sarcasm.

[Mr_Spock]

106. Smelly RW varmint

:sarcasm:

[Skidmore]

121. Look, I find this thread extremely offensive and divisive itself.

The whole concept that you are not allowed to think for yourself or to disagree with the Party--whatever that may mean now--is offensive and demeaning. Did you see Olbermann's commentary after * scolded us all for thinking something other than he wants us to think? This thread brought that to mind. It at once is accusatory and seeks to stifle other opinions.

[KaptBunnyPants]

125. It is, but this close to an election, Skinner is likely to side with them.

DU isn't a good place to bitch about Democrats, even with just cause, with an election around the corner.

[Skidmore]

129. If Dem candidates lose it will not be because we disagree with

them and state it. It will be because they haven't listened and understood what was being said and have endorsed policies that were a detriment to the public. This is most true for the incumbents. You want my vote, earn it!

[KaptBunnyPants]

132. I agree, but it's not my website. nt

[elehhhhna]

165. Yes and that's why you'd better delete your ref to Skinner, above

or...how do you say...ZOT.

[KaptBunnyPants]

172. Why?

I thought you weren't allowed to call people out by name. I'm not calling Skinner out, he can and will run this place in the way he sees fit. I just remember what happened last election cycle, when they clamped down pretty hard on what was viewed as excess criticism. This isn't Free Republic, they don't just go banning people arbitrarily like that.

[elehhhhna]

173. Correct but read the rules.

[KaptBunnyPants]

178. Well I can't edit the post. I'll write the Admin and see

what they think.

[mom cat]

204. Furthermore, we have to articulate the ways that the dems are missing the

core of what the majority of Americans want! I am a yellow dog Democrat, but this old yeller has got to bark when something is wrong. The bulk of Americans agree with us damn it. Being silent about our values, the values that most Americans share, is stupid and is a hell of a lot more likely to get us defeated than stating the truth on this website. For the sake of America, and the Democrats, I am not going to roll over and die! And I'll be damned if I stop screaming at the Dems for not screaming the truth!

:grr: ... SILENCE = DEATH! ... :grr: ... SILENCE = DEATH ...:grr: ... SILENCE = DEATH ...:grr:

[Mr_Spock]

128. I can't take all this stuff too seriously

I mean - we're just individuals expressing opinions. Moods vary.

I agree with the O/P that we should be diligent concerning disruptor's and we should at least have as a goal to be somewhat coherent in the larger Democratic message - and winning IS everything at this point.

I don't think anyone is suggesting we march in lockstep, but it is not unusual for some like yourself to feel that way - and I suppose it's expected. If organizing liberals is like herding cats, I really am not that worried that we are going to agree with the O/P to the extent you suggest. Both opinions are valid, but we have to remember that we are not, and never will be, RW sheep who are looking for a Jesus to mindlessly follow.

[Skidmore]

136. Thank you for clarifying your opinion.

It is helpful and perhaps the OP should have been a bit more tactful if that is what he/she meant. It came across as a blanket accusation that anyone who disagreed was somehow disloyal or a disruptor. For 10 years I lived in a nation where real censorship existed and people disappeared who dissented. I take my right to dissent very seriously. I take my vote seriously. And I will not be censored, by the government or a party.

[kestrel91316]

152. Just remember those famous words:

United we stand; divided we fall.

Also: We must all hang together, or surely we will all hang alone.

[Joe Chi Minh]

156. It WAS pretty mean reproaching Lieberman for being more like

a "deepdown and dirty" Republican, wasn't it.... Let's all be friends together, eh? We do just what they say, cus we'd want to be bipartisan, even with the Devil! It's just being civil, you know.

[wiley]

202. Surely you've heard that before?

Someone on DU being called a smelly RW troll varmint?

:eyes:
Fucking Texans!

(the above is an attempt at humor. If you don't appreciate it move back to your lousy Communist country!)

[LSK]

2. K&R

[Kingofalldems]

3. Totally agree

I'm also tired of reading the 'there's nothing we can do to stop them' posts.

[meisje]

4. Damn you angry progressives!!!!!!!!!

[progressisvirtue]

5. of course we need to vote for democrats, that

goes without saying here... there is however no reason to stifle debate about the effectiveness of our chosen leaders

stifling criticism of leaders is something the other party does, i think if we want to criticize people, even those in congress, we should be able to without being labeled a right winger in disguise... because it doesnt automatically mean that those who criticize arent going to vote democratic in november


and no im not "freeper psyops" and i doubt many people are, like someone said here the other day, we're the 'big tent' party, and we should expect views that differ from our own, even over our elected officials

[Human Torch]

13. Fond memories of the 2004 Kerry campaign on DU...

DU Poster #1: "When is he going to hit back against the Swift Boat Liars?"

DU Poster #2: "Shut the fuck up! He knows what he's doing!"

Lather, rinse, repeat. A LOT of people were told to sit down and shut the fuck up. It was like Alexander Haig wandered into DU and proclaimed "I'm in control here"...

Haig wasn't in control in 1981, and neither were the folks in 2004 wanted the people they disagreed with to shut the fuck up.

That's not America. That's George W. Bush's America, and that's the way things are done at Free Republic.

People should express themselves freely, and the Moderators can decide who requires a tombstoning / locking / deleting / stoning in the public square.

:patriot:

[IChing]

17. Try not to be an "angry progressive"

You need to be more of milquetoast, middle of the road, sheep, never questioning anything that this party does.:sarcasm:

[Joanne98]

161. Do you remember dem_strategist The chess player!

He was so clever. Fighting back was falling into their trap. THE VOTERS ARE SMART ENOUGH TO FIGURE IT OUT! He never understood that nobody votes for someone who won't defend himself. If Kerry couldn't defend himself, how could he defend the country. It was so simple, but...The strategists are idiots!

[elehhhhna]

167. That faker was a true IDIOT

Probably Donna Brazile

[Joanne98]

174. LOL. It would be interesting to go back and read those threads.

He was wrong about everything.

[elehhhhna]

175. Let's, shall we? Be right back...OKAY, My FAVE:

Dem Strategist: I am leaving DU
Edited on Fri Aug-20-04 11:11 AM by Dem_Strategist
"Thanks to those of you who have made great suggestions. However, this process doesn't seem to be working.

Thanks all for your hard work.

And a special thanks to William Pitt and Skinner."




See them all by searching archives '04, GD/Politics, Author Dem Strategist

[Joanne98]

186. How do I get search to go to 2004.

It will only go to 2005 for me?

[elehhhhna]

192. click on archive search )it's redlined somewhere in the search box

better yet click advance search, archives, select GD-POLITICS, and the date range (6/04-12/04)

[elehhhhna]

179. Another goodie from 8/20/04

Dem Strategist: On Laying Gloves and Fighting Back
We Dems often make a fundamental mistake when assessing the effects of Repub attacks. Swift Liars is a great example: on the one hand, we believe (rightly) that we're facing a ruthless opponent, a complicit media, and an uninformed electorate. On the other hand we freak out if our opponent lands a couple of body blows.

In the end, the forces arrayed against us are formidable, especially the whore press. What makes John Kerry a winner is that he'll take the punches and come back swinging.

There's no need to be alarmed or surprised if the other side gets a few good licks in. It's unavoidable. The important thing (and the thing that causes endless consternation among Kerry's enemies) is that he keeps coming back and WINS.

[Joanne98]

184. LOL! Priceless.

[Joanne98]

187. Find the one about playing chess...Remember

We are playing chess and Republicans and playing checkers, or something like that. We are judo? It was really stupid. I would do it but I can't get the search to go to 2004.

[elehhhhna]

193. I'll try...

[creeksneakers2]

199. I made trouble

Others made trouble too. Dem Strategist had to leave,probably for the same reasons he came for in the first place. Too bad because he provoked some great threads!

[warrens]

35. Check out the 5 percent of PA voters planning to go Green

A Repuke financed candidate without a shred of a chance of winning, and these self-hating progressives are going to vote for him and perhaps hand the election to Mr. Cumlubefecalmatter. Morally bankrupt is the first term that leaps to mind. Very, very stupid is the second.

[progressisvirtue]

46. i think third parties are awesome

i wish we had a multiparty system, like most of europe... but sadly, our government is set up perfectly for a 2 party system...

and yes, i was being sarcastic in my subject line, third parties ARE counterproductive... thats why i said that i would vote democratic... but not questioning our party leadership and thier actions (or inaction) is almost as bad as not voting, whats the point of voting if youre electing a spineless do-nothing?

also, i would not call greeners morally bankrupt... enviromental issues are pretty important... i might call them stupid though, =P

[snappyturtle]

6. I will admit I have some resentment for the Democratic Party

and I will continue to try to get the Democrats focused BUT there is NO WAY any troll could get me to vote for their pathetic party candidates.

[acmejack]

24. You vill haff no resentment towards ze non stance of ze Party!

Iz zatt understood, Comrade? Ve haff vays of dealing viff dissent, especially now!

[pecwae]

31. I have some disagreements

with the way the Dems do things, say things, etc. That will not prevent me from supporting the Democrat of my choice, however. I have never voted Republican in over 30 years. I have no plans to do so unless there is a liberal/progressive Repub on a ticket against a conservative/RW Dem...which I can't see happening.

[Jacobin]

7. I fully support the Democratic non-stance on codifying torture

As a new democrat, we must do everything in our power to allow the junta all the tools necessary to treat humans the same way the Saudis do. We must get with the times.

Hopefully, the Democrats in congress can soon be in the forefront of increasing the use of torture, so we don't have to play second fiddle to republicans in regard to the important issue of sadism.

our new campaign slogan should be: "We don't just sit back and let republicans codify the use of torture...we have new and better ways to maim, mistreat, bludgeon, and torture who we don't like."

"Sadism...It's Not Just for Republicans anymore."

[wtmusic]

10. ROFLMAO...I stand semi-solidly behind your non-stance

and in this in-stance it makes total non-sense!

:rofl:

[gully]

19. And you're here

why?

Oh, yeah to stir shit up. Just like the OP stated.

[Lerkfish]

22. and you don't consider the OP as stirring things up?

or your own response as stirring things up?

[gully]

30. NO, look at the name of this website.

I'm here because I'm a DEMOCRAT. If people can't tell the difference between Dems and R's, they should go somewhere where others are confused as well.

[natrat]

37. got news for you

as it stands the dem party is the designated party of failure and the higher ups are more than ok with it as long as the money goes there way. By not raising questions you arefacilatating this. Make no mistake you cant simply hide behind a word or label.

[gully]

82. I don't raise questions?

Go ahead "raise questions" just get your ass out and vote Democratic! I'd rather blame Democrats when they are actually in a position to do something.

[magellan]

208. I just can't help but ask

Pray tell, if the Democrats aren't actually in a position to do anything, then what have they been drawing a paycheck for?

[Lerkfish]

88. guess what? I"M a democrat, too

I just chafe at the idea of someone telling me to be silent and move in lockstep. I'm funny that way, go figure.
If I wanted a party of enforced conformity, I'd BE a republican...got it?

I have always voted straight democrat, and I shouldn't have to say that, to you or anyone.

My objection with the OP is NOT the exhortation to vote democrat, that's cool, I'm down with that, obviously.

MY problem is the accusations of thoughtcrime for expressing ourselves. That's a republican tactic, its nasty, and it has no place in america.

[gully]

157. Chafe at a nonpartisan website,

"got it?"

[Lerkfish]

159. oh, I got it, you're telling me to leave

its not that hard to figure out transparent agendas.

[gully]

177. No, stick around and vote Democratic.

eom

[Jacobin]

48. Hey. Just trying to get on board with the party, dude.

:rofl:

Testy much?

[KaptBunnyPants]

137. But if we took a stance against torture, how will we reach the vital

pro-torture voting block? Think strategy, man!

[Jacobin]

140. Here's a thought

Let's pretend, just for argument's sake, that we have an intelligent, articulate congresscritter with a D behind his name who is rational and is not intimidated by the sadists.

He might begin by discussing how torture doesn't work. (cue former CIA agent who has been talking about that)

He might suggest that, no we don't need to be like Saudi Arabia or SADDAM (remember when torture was 'bad'), that in fact, America won a whole big old giant war, the one with the '2' behind it, without resorting to torture.

He might suggest that the CONSTITUTION makes it illegal for us to ignore treaties and other international agreements that congress has signed on to.

He might suggest that we are better than the enemy who uses torture.

No, I know that this might sound utterly OUTLANDISH and CRAZY to suggest that we follow the Geneva Conventions (which we fucking WROTE), but ya know desperate times call for desperate measures.

Oh, by the way. Those mouth breathing freaks who support torture? Clue phone ringing. They'd never vote for a dem anyway.

I cannot BELIEVE that I am reading these posts on this board.

[KaptBunnyPants]

143. I'm sorry, I was trying to be sarcastic.

Sometimes I forget that there actually is a pro-torture voting block, it still just seems surreal to see people talking in support of that kind of shit.

[Lerkfish]

149. no more sarcasm allowed on DU...don't you know that elects repubs?

get your thinking in line, young comrade!

[Joanne98]

162. Hillary? Is that you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. Hmm, yes. Ignore angry progressives, folks.

We all no progressives ain't got nothing to be angry about.

Now let's all go back to supporting our President.

[Lautremont]

9. Are we to suppose that being pissed off at Democrats means voting

Republican instead? Or voting Green or not voting at all? I'll extend a little more credit to the people here than that.

[William769]

11. How many of these people do you think will write in Chavez on a ballot?

:rofl:

[OneBlueSky]

12. I fully intend to vote a straight Democratic ticket in November, but . . .

I reserve my right to "call 'em as I sees 'em" -- which often means criticizing the Democrats and their abject failure to be an opposition party and stand up to BushCo . . . there are reasons Democrats haven't won elections beyond fraud, and I intend to keep pointing them out whenever they do or say something stupid . . . I will not lack opportunities, I can assure you . . .

[Lerkfish]

14. the biggest example of psyops is the OP

[Raksha]

61. I knew that as soon as I saw who the author was.

I don't have an exclude list, but there are certain posters I tend to be wary about.

[mmonk]

15. _

[Spazito]

160. LOL, love the graphic and it is so appropriate for this thread!

:thumbsup:

[scarletwoman]

16. "a fighting chance to move forward" -- that would be great if we had any

actual fighters.

Don't worry, I will dutifully go to the polls on election day, and I will dutifully vote for everyone with a 'D' after their name.

Just lay off expecting me to believe that this will make any fucking difference whatsoever.

sw

[gully]

18. Hear hear!

:kick:

[treestar]

20. If I lived in Rangel's district I'd most likely vote for him over some

Rethug. Doesn't mean I don't think what he said was stupid, though.

Why jump to the conclusion that just because we don't agree with one dem on one issue one day, it even means we are against them and won't vote for them?

This is a discussion board. It is for discussion. Not just slogans.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

41. and let me guess - you will probably NOT give him money or work for him.

ding - ding - ding....

[treestar]

84. You're assuming that because I don't like the way he reacted AND

said so?

[mike_c]

21. is this the line for getting our uniforms fitted...?

...or is it the line for getting our loyalty tattoos?

[Lerkfish]

23. make sure the shirts are brown.

[a la izquierda]

209. rofl!

oh damn, that totally made my day!
i'll take the tattoo thanks very much. i've noticed they've got the newest in fashionable barcode designs. :tinfoilhat:

[kerry-is-my-prez]

25. I agree. This sort of thing happens during every election.

n/t

[yurbud]

26. with one caveat: it's not wrong to urge Dems to fight harder and more

effectively, like a coach yelling at his team during the game.

[Roxy66]

28. Oh, O.K.......shhhhhh, dont stir things up..n/t

[SmokingJacket]

29. I will vote for them, but I reserve the right to be PISSED OFF

that they are not representing me.

I don't know, maybe I'm giving them my loyalty too easily... maybe if they were afraid I'd turn Green or something they might TRY A LITTLE HARDER to earn my love!

Nevertheless, I understand I have two choices here, and of course I'll vote for the non-Satan party.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

33. It's about decreasing turnout, donations and enthusiasm of the base.

Then we won't give money, work on campaigns or perhaps even turnout to vote.

[elehhhhna]

168. DING DING DING we have a winner!

[Leopolds Ghost]

205. They will listen if you give lots of money, NOT threaten to leave.

I'm just sayin' :shrug:

Why are you witholding $1,000 checks? You have no right to criticize under those circumstances... The purpose of the "grassroots" is to be loyal and turn out, not formulate strategy. This is a Republic, not a democracy... our representatives formulate policy after carefully weighing the interests of the people they have direct access to.

[DURHAM D]

32. I wish DU had a quarantine button. In other words, I would

like to place little bugs on a member when I suspect they are trolls and trouble makers. I don't want to block their posts, I just want that little indicator - so after a little while I can say to myself "Oh, its you again".

I would like the following categories:

Suspected Republican
Suspected Green Party Supporter
Basic Contrarian
Just needs attention

[gully]

34. LOL, I love it.

eom

[natrat]

39. yea like asks too many questions,wont accept status quo-gimme a break

[Leopolds Ghost]

206. How do I get an "Asks too many questions" stickie?

Do I have to be a donor first? :hi:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

50. I disagree about Basic Contrarians.

They're always good for an argument.

:P

[DURHAM D]

67. True - but I don't always want to argue.

People who love, really love, to argue don't necessarily make good points - they will say anything to keep it going. Often it evolves to bully status.

I hate bullies - even the ones I might agree with.

Do you have a suggestion for the symbol for Basic Contrarian - should it be a Tweety bird?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

68. Yes, you do.

:P

How about John Cleese?

[DURHAM D]

76. Do you have a pic ? n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

78. No, you've got the pic.

[DURHAM D]

124. You are cute Hooligan.

But, I bet you are not born again - you have always been this way.

[paulk]

36. K and R

it looks like the whole damn PI crowd has slithered over here today....


:dem:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

38. I've actually got pretty good candidates to support, but

I have been waiting...for...25...years...for...the...Democratic...Party... as... a... whole.....to...unite...and...stand...firm...against...the... ravages... of... the... rabid... Republicanites.

In the meantime, the Republicanites have done everything they can to ruin this beautiful country, and even when the Dems have had a majority, just enough of them have defected to allow the Republicanites to get nearly everything they've wanted.

From here on in, I have no patience with any Democrat who votes for ANY of Bush's initiatives. If a legislator hasn't figured out that EVERYTHING the Republicanites propose is aimed at either enriching the rich or restricting civil liberties, then s/he is either too gullible or too corrupt to stay in office.

I don't fucking care what their campaign consultants tell them. The time has passed for them to worry about being re-elected. If they can't take a moral stand, yes, a moral stand, then they deserve to lose.

There's a passage in a book about the 1937 Nanjing Massacre in which a Japanese journalist tries to get an officer to intervene when some enlisted men are cold-bloodedly murdering civilians, and the officer refuses. The journalist remarks to a friend, "We deserve to lose this war."

The Congressional Dems are in the position of that officer. They should be filibustering in Congress, shutting down the government, if necessary, and going home to tell their constituents THE TRUTH, that the Bush administration is proposing to TRASH THE CONSTITUTION. They need to do this in every venue available to them.

If they can't even do that when an administration is doing it's damnedest to smash through the Bill of Rights, what good are they?

And don't give me that lame DLC excuse of, "Well, we don't have a majority yet."

Fuck that, if you can't stand up as a body for one of the basic principals of human rights, then you don't deserve to have a majority.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

45. Therefore we should vote green and not give money to the Dems - right?

n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

51. Did I say that?

No.

But I've actually got some good candidates to support, incuding one (Keith Ellison), who is everything the DLC loves to hate. :-)

[geek tragedy]

49. Karl Rove applauds your efforts to demoralize Democrats

everywhere. Keep up that voter suppression!

[Roxy66]

55. I think our "Leaders" are taking care of voter suppression just fine n/t

[Jacobin]

62. You've got that right

[scarletwoman]

56. Yeah, calling for Dems to take a moral stand is obviously demoralizing.

Feh.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

57. Oh, for heaven's sake

NOTHING suppresses voter turnout more than a party that can't even take united stands on TORTURE.

I'm going to vote, and I'm going to vote straight D, but that's because I have good candidates to support. If I had one of those faux Dems who supported the Iraq War, the bankruptcy bill, welfare reform, NAFTA, and everything else the corporate interests asked for, I'd be very tempted to vote third party.

[geek tragedy]

71. Here's what you said:

"From here on in, I have no patience with any Democrat who votes for ANY of Bush's initiatives. If a legislator hasn't figured out that EVERYTHING the Republicanites propose is aimed at either enriching the rich or restricting civil liberties, then s/he is either too gullible or too corrupt to stay in office."

[Lydia Leftcoast]

80. But that's not true of my candidates, so no problem

:-)

[geek tragedy]

83. Well, we're not going to take Congress over unless we elect

Democrats in purple/reddish districts. Which means electing Democrats who aren't pure and do have some flaws.

Those Democrats are fighting an uphill battle in hostile territory, and need all the support they can get. Give them hell afterwards, but by golly right now we're talking about a team effort that's required.

I myself am donating $$ to Dems running against Repugs in swing districts. I am significantly to their left, but their victory will be my victory, our victory.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

85. So they should take mealy-mouthed stands and hope that

the voters are dumb enough to think they're the Republican candidate?

Whatever.

[geek tragedy]

87. Of course not. Wimpiness is not something that wins.

But, failing to oppose every single thing that Bush has every supported is not a valid reason to avoid supporting a Democratic candidate.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

98. Name one GOOD thing that Bush has proposed

Name ONE thing that Bush has proposed that a person with any ethics or morals can support with a clear conscience.

The Republicans pursue ideological purity all the time, and if you haven't noticed, they control everything right now.

Your average uninformed voter likes feisty and hates wishy-washy.

[geek tragedy]

102. Sorry, I'm not going to throw impure Democrats under the bus

so I can act like the Purity Police.

And, your point about the Rethugs being ideologically pure is, well, PURE CRAP.

Specter, Collins, Snowe, Chafee all differ significantly from the American Taliban positions. But, they're not STUPID enough to try to throw those people under the bus.

Well, the Club for Growthers in Rhode Island were . . .

[Lydia Leftcoast]

112. Not that significantly

They differ mostly on personal behavior issues, not on things like Constitutional rights. When it comes to sticking it to the little person economically and coddling the rich, they're usually right on board.

Hell, one of my favorite Dems is Jim Oberstar from northern Minnesota, and despite his anti-choice votes, I like him because he's a consistent advocate for all the peace, labor, environmental, and other economic issues that I support.

[geek tragedy]

120. I'm sure Oberstar has voted with Bush from time to time.

Is he really too corrupt and cowardly and stupid to keep in office?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

126. Only on the abortion issue, as far as I know

Not on anything else major

[wtmusic]

70. I"VE been demoralized

I thought my reps were perfect. Why would I vote for less than perfection? Now I have only two choices--vote Republican, or roll myself into a sobbing little ball in the corner of the room. :cry:

[scarletwoman]

53. Right ON! "A moral stand" -- that's it exactly!

Thanks for the righteous post!

:hi:
sw

[Roxy66]

59. Hell yeah!!! n/t

[Pastiche423]

75. Your. Best. Post. Ever!

[applegrove]

42. K & R

[yowzayowzayowza]

43. First Amendment Fleas.

I'm sure the infestation is only beginning.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. Why are the progressives "angry"?

Could it possibly be that some of our "leaders", by pandering to the right, piss them off?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

72. Because the right set a trap for them... don't fall for it.

n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

97. I'm not. They did.

The right sets up traps with flag burning, immigration, the war on terror, Hugo Chavez' speech, "defense" spending, "support the troops", welfare, "socialized" medicine, and a long list of other issues reduced to either/or false dichotomies. Some of the Dem "leaders" walk right into them and act shocked that the left gets upset by their pandering.

[Raksha]

47. I don't need anyone to "make" me angry at the Democrats.

Rangel and Pelosi accomplished that quite well on their own yesterday. I know we need a Democratic majority in Congress and I'll still work towards that goal, but that doesn't mean I won't be watching them. They are entirely too spineless and out of touch for my taste.

[mmonk]

54. Why not create a spy network here at DU

so as to keep eyes on people that post things that aren't always flattering about elected dems? It can be a secret one.

[IChing]

58. I already know who the DLC posters are

attacking angry progressives, from way back.

[wyldwolf]

64. what angry progressives call "attacking" is merely being disagreed with

Guilty as charged. DLC poster reporting for duty!

[Roxy66]

65. Gee...thats sounds so familiar.

[mmonk]

73. Doesn't it though?!

[bigtree]

60. and this is . . . ?

I'm a lifelong Democrat who occasionally criticizes Democrats.

You can't possibly know the motivations of posters, and to suggest that you do is incredible.

Just who the fuck are these 'Democrats' you are defending? I always considered myself to be a integral part of my party. How is the party going to respond to my needs and concerns if they're bending over backward to appease some unknown moderate or conservative? Why don't the liberal views of our party's base matter more?

How do you know for sure that this kiss ass approach will draw any more votes than a direct, unapologetic one? We haven't seen that kind of campaign yet from the leadership. And, we've been out of power for a good while . . .

[Skidmore]

66. Thank you!!! Thank you so much for saying this.

[BattyDem]

63. Don't have an opinion. Don't ask questions. Don't expect Dems to fight.

Just sit down, shut up and vote for the Dem on election day. That's what a true party member does. Blind obedience and unquestioning loyalty - it's the new American way!

:sarcasm:

[Roxy66]

69. No kidding...what a crock!!

[Jacobin]

74. DLC! DLC! DLC! DLC!

ooooh, I said that too loudly....must slink to corner and whimper in case some republican wants to codifying public beheadings of democrats in the town square.

[tomreedtoon]

79. Beware of DU'ers supporting ineffective Democrats!

Perhaps you don't have any choice. Perhaps the Democratic Party in your area has nothing but a lame, conceding, Democrat In Name Only. In which case, you have no choice but to vote Democratic, but you don't have to be happy about the result. Just because a person has a "D" after his name doesn't mean that he supports progressive causes - or that he has the courage to fight for the positions he claims to support.

I am NOT recommending that anyone vote Republican, Libertarian or Green. Which are all the same thing. But make your Democratic candidate earn your trust. Next time, get involved in primaries and try to make the Party select someone who is unafraid to fight and win.

And now, thanks to Bartcop, the updated Pink Tutu Democrats who are currently betraying your support:


"Turn our back on Daddy Dubya? That's silly!"

Please note that Lieberman is no longer a Democrat and has been removed; also, with the addition of a female Pink Tutu, most of the weaker minds out there won't claim this is homophobia. I said most.

[Roxy66]

81. That picture is hillarious!! n/t

[seabeyond]

93. this is a perfect example of the op. n/t

[mdmc]

89. God Bless the Dems!

They sure are better then the GOP....

[seabeyond]

90. here here or hear hear. i wonder how many played sports, dont know

how to win. either that or they are to start trouble. but it does the democratic no good spouting right wing propaganda bullshit talking points IF you want to win.

[dkofos]

92. Now we have to fear dissenting comments on DU

Where will the culture of fear take us next

[seabeyond]

96. bullshit

there see, no fear of dissenting comments.

[KaptBunnyPants]

100. Didn't you hear, liberals are the bad guys now.

Only those people with the courage to support any move made by someone with a (D) in front of their name should be listened to. The rest are just plants. This is like our very own night of the long knives. I just wonder how long until they just start blanket bans for people insufficiently supportive of the Party leadership. Which would be fine with me, I'm no troll, if Skinner and the mod team don't want me here I'll leave. Politics is starting to make me sick, anyway.

[seabeyond]

105. drama drama drama. lordy...... some whine with the cheese?

how about facts and truth while dissing the dems instead of the propaganda bullshit rw talkingpoints. at least when trashing the dems be truthful. too much to ask? dem has no plan. dem has no spine. oh whine whine bad dem.

you are right, i am sure there is a conspiracy to pick on you

[KaptBunnyPants]

110. Thank you for being so respectful.

I'm glad that even when people disagree we can do so without it becoming so personal.

[seabeyond]

113. how much problem have you had expressing views and big bad

skinner or anyone else come after you. how much of a threat do you feel to express something negative about dems in fear skinner doesnt want you on the board. more hyperbole with not evidence or reason to even say it and then you want respect? just feeding of negativity for nor reason but negativity.

gotta earn respect. your post didnt

[Name removed]

117. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dkofos]

107. Indeed

What I hate most about repugs is the lack of independent thought, the way they march in lockstep most of the time.

If they want all dems to be that way I will find another forum.

[mmonk]

94. _

[Roxy66]

99. Did we just overload this thread?

[Solly Mack]

101. Way to marginalize and silence people!

Let's threaten people! Let them know if they voice frustration in any form that we'll call them Bush enablers!!!!

You're either with us or against us!

And being with us means keeping your mouth shut!

Happy.Happy.Joy.Joy.

I just hate it when the people demand more from their representatives!

How dare they question their representatives!

How dare they voice their concerns before we tell them what to believe!

What do they think this is, a democracy?

If you keep silent and keep your frustrations to yourself, then we will love you and spread joy your way...and we won't call you names in an attempt to marginalize you and force you into silence out of fear of being labeled the enemy.

But if you open your mouth...WHAM!

[OzarkDem]

104. You get plenty of time the rest of the year

Before election, why don't you do what you want Dem leaders to do - have a little message discipline.

If you're so worked up about the GOP, why don't you blow off a little steam by going down to your local Dem campaign office and volunteering for a lit drop or do some phone banking.

[Solly Mack]

109. LMAO...but I support message discipline. Couldn't you tell?

LMAO

[seabeyond]

108. how about getting the repug out, and out of power, then when dem

disappoints jump on their ass. but for now, jump on repugs ass to give dems the power too disappoint you

[Solly Mack]

111. Are they my representatives? Then I have every right to voice

any displeasure I may feel. And anyone that attempts to take away that right is a right winger.

How's it feel? :)

Just as you aren't anti-American or unpatriotic if you voice displeasure with Bush, people aren't going to stop voting Democratic just because they voice their frustrations.

It's the exact same fallacious reasoning the right wingers use to suggest it does.

it's insulting and an intimidation tactic.

[OzarkDem]

114. So you want to keep them from getting re-elected?

You think Republicans would do a better job?

[Solly Mack]

116. So you are keeping Bush from winning the war on terror when you

criticize him?

Same logic....fallacious and dishonest :)

[OzarkDem]

166. Which campaign are you working on? n/t

[Solly Mack]

169. LMAO I love it that you keep proving my point

LMAO

[seabeyond]

118. looks like. looking around to see if i am on democraticunderground

or elsewhere

d*mn.

[seabeyond]

115. yes you have EVERY right. and you know no one is going to take

your right from you. every right. yes.....

this is about stupid

and how productive is it?

that is all the suggestion is of someone that wants repugs out to give dems control so we can have a voice. right solly..... just too much was asked of you

[Solly Mack]

122. Voicing your frustrations is very productive when you are around

people who are supposed to be on the same side...

You know, defeating Bush instead of adopting Bush's tactics of intimidation

Voicing your frustrations around those who share your frustrations..and take a look around...MANY people on DU share the exact same frustrations

It's fallacious and dishonest to suggest sharing your feelings means you support republicans.

It's beneath a true Democrat to ever suggest that it would ...again...see how it works? :)

[seabeyond]

123. i have watched kerry work his ass off for two years, yet at least

half will make sure on everything the man does to jump on and say too little too late. wtf is he doing talking to the people and all kinds of bullshit dissing that has nothing to do with subject at hand. that is not support. that is not a way to win. that is not even rational.

whenever the dem does get on t.v. (few and far between per control of media) or they are on senate floor ii hear thread after thread about the dem

about damn time they did this. about damn time they got a spine. about damn time they speak out. and then it is immediately forgotten, back to the same old bullshit tired line they have no spine (which the repugs really appreciate our continually feeding of this myth) and we say it until the next time we hear the dem stand up and speak out. then again we are thrilled, overjoyed and say ya dem only to forget the moment again

we have a responsibility too

never have i had issue when discussing when a dem missteps. i always have issue with blanket rw media induced rove created talking points being fed on this board that has absolutely no basis in truth. just a myth that becomes a truth for some.

keep it intellectually honest and i dont think anyone would have issue

create fiction, and you leave yourself open to attack

[Solly Mack]

141. It's fallacious to call people republican enablers for not conforming

to your idea of what a "good" Democrat should be


You can't cheer calling Democratic voters names just because they are frustrated and then expect people to listen to you.

People have a right to their frustration whether you like it or not. And insulting them and attempting to intimidate them isn't going to get you anywhere.

The Democratic Party is not supposed to be about marginalizing people through intimidation....and labeling people GOP enablers because they voice their frustration IS intimidation and it's NOT intellectually honest.

Allow people to get it out of their systems. Allow them the space to get their pain out. Be happy members can come to DU, among friends, to share their feelings. It means they feel they can trust the people here.

Don't attack them. You abuse that trust when you do.

You'll only push them away when you attack them.

The OP called DU members enablers simply because some of them are voicing their concerns with America attempting to legitimize torture....that's not a Rove talking point...it's actually happening. They want to hear from their representatives...and they get attacked for it.

How sad is that?

[seabeyond]

146. i am going to break this down for you solly

and i dont normally waste my time with that.

intimidate? are you suggesting i or anyone can intimidate anyone thru the net words we use. that, i suggest, is something for a person to reflect on. because if anyone can seriously be intimidated by some unknown on the internet, it is really not my issue. it is the person that allows themselves to be intimidated by an unknown.

all this stuff about good democrat, and the first part of your post was assumptions on your part that i never said. it was your creation. i am not even a dem and have always stated that. i do want repugs out because of what they have done, are doing and will do to this nation i also know how to win. and this isnt how one wins. i challenge that. and in your scenerio of free speech i absolutely have the right

come on the board to speak out frustration? so be it. do it. but if you are going to say dems do nuthin and have no spine, i am going to equally challenge and not coddle an illusion so you feel better. truly you will feel better if you realize the reality of why dems are not heard

thru out your post you are in a tangent that clearly shows you have not a clue to what i am addressing or you chose to ignore the points i brought up. those are the kinda things i will always confront and address.

[Solly Mack]

148. LMAO.... True believers die the hardest

I feel incredibly sorry for you.

Your world view can not be challenged, least everything you think you are crumble.

Never mind the OP does attempt to intimidate people with name-calling, and never mind that's what my posts address, you need to turn it into something else you can safely attack or you feel you have somehow lost something.

Sad

Take care and be well!

[Lerkfish]

150. its' ok, solly mack, I got yer back!

I too, feel that if anyone does not speak out against torture, they are not high on my list of favorites...does that make me a bad person?

[Solly Mack]

153. If it does, I'm a bad person too

Thanks, Lerkfish!!! Much appreciated!!!!! :)

[seabeyond]

181. i didnt know we were suggesting that we turn our back on torture.

i dont think that was suggested anywhere.

[seabeyond]

182. i really cannot even figure out what you are talking about on this post

you dont know me. you dont have enough information to make any of these conclusions that you have. and they are wrong.

[BlueJackal]

103. I am a proud progressive

But that doesn't mean I'm obligated to blindly follow EVERY single Dem candidate out there. Blind loyalty of anything or anyone is always the same.

[Rex]

119. Oh brother

where art thou?

:popcorn:

[Asgaya Dihi]

127. This pushes voters away, it doesn't draw them

A few months ago I was charged up and thought the party may have finally realized how damaging the path of the last few decades has been. Yeah, the Republicans suck but it was us that helped them to pass media consolidation in 96, NAFTA and other measures that lead to loss of jobs and outsourcing, an increase in the pace of the drug war with new mandatory minimums that helped to leave one young black man in eight behind bars as we speak today, the associated voter disenfranchisement that brought with it and a host of other problems.

The NATION has been on the wrong track, not a single party.

When I thought we were finally awake I was ready to do anything to move the cause along but the closer we got to the election the more the "any dem at any cost" crowd came out to trash and silence all criticism, deserved or not. We've been there and tried that and it wasn't good for the nation. If we're not allowed or encouraged to actually PARTICIPATE in the process and try to redirect the party toward a less damaging path than it has taken in the past then there's not a lot of point in voting at all, is there?

Think on the impact of what you do. You don't silence critics, you drive away potential voters. If a persons voice and opinion isn't welcome they may not feel their vote is required either.

[KaptBunnyPants]

131. I'm not going to punish the Party for what some asshat says on DU.

I hope everyone else agrees with me, because you're right. If anyone at an actual political campaign impugned my motives with the regularity that we've been seeing today, I would definitely rethink my support.

[scarletwoman]

144. Beautifully said! Thank you.

I'm not in such an eloquent mood at the moment, myself. When I see posts like the OP I have to seriously fight the urge to simply say, "Oh yeah? Well f**k you and the spineless lame-ass and nearly useless party you rode in on!"

I've voted straight 'D' in every single election since 1972. And I'll dutifully haul my angry progressive self to the polls in November to do it again, and so will everyone in my family.

But I am this close to saying "a pox on BOTH your houses" and quit voting altogether. Posts like the OP just push me further in that direction.

sw

[Solly Mack]

154. Exactly! Wonderfully said!!!!

[Strawman]

158. Apparently people can't make a pragmatic choice to vote Democratic

Unless they are completely enthralled by everything the leadership says and does during the run up to the election. How idiotic. If I were that easily discouraged, I probably wouldn't vote at all. I hate when people try this tack to stifle discourse.

THIS (what we're doing here in this discussion fourm) is democracy! You are spot on. Honest discussion among Democrats attracts and engages people. If I wanted propaganda, I could go to any lame campaign website where all the communication and "dialogue" is crafted, managed, and inauthentic.

[Asgaya Dihi]

163. Sorry about that

My apologies, I misread your post.

[Poll_Blind]

130. I whipped up a LITTLE POSTER FOR YOUR CAMPAIGN

PB

[scarletwoman]

147. LOL! (nt)

[file83]

200. Best comment in the entire thread!!!

:thumbsup: right on.

[guardian]

133. Vote your conscience and passion! n/t

[lildreamer316]

134. KICK.

Thank you. You and eleny calling it out today. Thanks so much!

[aikoaiko]

138. aikoaiko - voting democratic ticket all the way

unless they talk about gun bans again ;)

[BuyingThyme]

139. Yes, ignore democracy; be a Republican.

Sickening.

[wiggs]

142. So tell those with criticisms how many weeks before, or after,

an election they can comment on how our dc dems are doing, please. What is the window of time you'd allow to discuss the state of dem politics? Or maybe you'd suggest a type of "free speech zone"...a private website so that those with dissenting comments are heard by as few people as possible? And where do you draw the line between helpful comment and harmful comment? You'd have to explain that to us as well...

You think that a healthy conversation on DU has any perceptable effect on elections? Even this cycle where there are probably a dozen critical, important issues on which these candidates are supposed to run? Those, overwhelmingly, should be the topics that decide elections, not DU opinions. I can't see how any DU comment (ie why aren't dc dems more aggressive on election integrity?) "helps republicans get elected." I just don't see the connection. I see it as information to be considered...and after all the basis of a democracy is a well informed public (Lincoln).

We have a MAJOR problem in this country regarding the poor state of public discourse (polarization, smearing, misinformation, media control, screening at rallies, etc) and you want to limit content on one of the few vigorous forums for discussion???

I like seeing the debate and generally regret seeing posts that squash or bemoan the opinions of fellow DUrs. If you think dc dems are doing fine and deserve credit...fine, make your case.

[Warren DeMontague]

145. By all means- anyone trying to call the party on its shittier moves

or positions must be a "plant" or a troll.

Right?

Hmmm. Okay.

What's your plan, stan?

[Lerkfish]

151. "keep our powder dry"! that's the strategery!

witholding our outrage at enabling torture will solve everything!

[Warren DeMontague]

155. I was gonna wager ten-to-one it had to do with "courting values voters"

You know, we have to convince Ma and Pa Kettle that we Love Jeeeebus. Shut up about those pesky gay and womens' rights, clam it about the separation of church and state.. by all means don't try to appeal to the millions of politically disaffected libertarians in this country by standing up against the drug war or for the right of people to make their own end-of-life decisions. After all, there was a REASON the Terri Schiavo case made the Republicans look so good, wasn't there?

And the fact that most Americans oppose the Iraq war makes it MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVER that we not come out strongly against it. Because.. Because... That's just what they would expect us to do!

Clearly, there's a hunger in this land for not one, but two parties of cheap religious right pandering and neo-con idiocy.

[WHAT]

170. WTF, I'm in an echo chamber...

that doesn't make it easy to get in the "groove"?

Oh well, disco is just "bad form". The effort must be exhausting, the foisting of mediocre "imperatives". Let's all relax with a more fitting approximation of reality. A more graceful acceptance and profound appreciation of difference. Let's say, the coagulation of thought is not necessarily the progression of survival, rather a narrow and provocative lexicon/leverage of personal interest. Who does that personal interest belong to? The wedge issue, by it's nature, is regressive because past ideology, by its nature, supersedes present permutations of possibility?.No, No.

Riding the wave and jumping the shark, both share a mutual assumption of receptiveness. The world is no longer repetitive even though propaganda might try for monotony, (war can be monotonous, too), did they ever think of that?

NO, it's a new game and possibility is a prism that is splintered.

No one knows but a fulcrum is now only a tiny focus point...while the world dances and can't be pinned down.

[geek tragedy]

171. Here's an example of someone trying to help the Republicans.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2199029&mesg_id=2199029

[IChing]

180. Here is a picture of someone enabling republicans right before mid-terms

[AntiFascist]

188. LOL, I think we're skirting around the issue (so to speak)....

I prefer Gore over Hillary, myself (oh wait, that's 2008... 2 more long years of this...)

[Swamp Rat]

183. LOL! This is like trying to herd cats!

:rofl:
















:yoiks:















O8)

[Asgaya Dihi]

185. There's an old video about that

Might be good for a smile for someone, after the threads I've read so far today I'd bet some of us could use it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7635587316493151891&q=cat+herding+video&hl=en

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

189. K And Fucking R With As Much Force As I Can Put On The Left Click Button!!

Hear fucking hear brentspeak! You said it in a nutshell!

Go Dems!

:toast:

:applause:

:yourock:

[Donald Ian Rankin]

190. I think you ask too much.

Asking us to hold our noses and actually try and make the world a better place, rather than claiming the moral high ground while the Republicans remain in power? Despicable! You must be mad!

This is the first thread I've ever recommended, but I'm afraid I don't expect it to be heeded as much as it deserves to be.

I will say, though, to anyone who disagrees with the OP: which would you rather, *be* right or *do* good?

[Raffi Ella]

191. well said!

To both you and the OP :toast:




:kick:

[roseBudd]

194. Who cares what a D said about Chavez, it's childish, of Chavez & childish

to care what anyone else said in response. It's a nonissue and accomplishes NOTHING

[Kurovski]

195. K&R

"I've already seen at least one "I'm gonna leave the Democrats" post.

[DancingBear]

196. Beware of anyone refusing to "toe the line"

Ya know, I think if Malloy posted on here these days there would be two dozen posts telling him he's unwittingly helping Republicans get elected.

This is just mind-boggling. It truly is.

I can hardly wait for the next "Republicans are sheeple" post.

Irony, your table is ready...

[kerry-is-my-prez]

197. Pitifull we Dems can't hold it together & be unified for 1 1/2 mths

really people that's all we need to do...

[Radicalman]

198. This Is Difficult.

Whether we progressives should openly disagree and attack Democrats we have fundamental disagreements with is a tough problem.. I have enormous differences with Democrats on many issues. To sum up, they have allowed the Republicans to repeal significant parts of the Roosevelt New Deal. Most of them gave a blank check to Junior Bush to invade and occupy Iraq, kill 100,000 Iraqis and thousands of American military. Now it looks like they will acquiesce on torture. To put it politely, they have no cajones.

But, I think, we have to all acknowledge that the Republicans are not the party of conservatism, but dangerous radicals who would bring our country back to the time or the Robber Barons, destroy the middle class, and, in the name of democratic values, impose a U.S. empire on the rest of the world that will lead to the destruction of our country, just as sure as the Roman Empire destroyed the Roman Republic. These Republican Radicals would create a surveillance society and a police state. In the name of their strange God, they would impose a theocratic state.

I think democrats, as well as republicans, are in the pockets of Corporate America. But, whatever the failings of Democrats, they would not join Republicans in a dance around a bonfire consuming the Bill of Rights, nor sing with them in a sadistic song of mocking the poor and glorifying the rich.

Those of us on the "left" are marginalized by the mainstream media. As a practical matter, is it of importance that you or I speak truth to power in the DU when the networks or cable don't cover it? Are we really going to to do damage to the Democratic Party if we do that? I think we should criticize the Democrats openly when they deserve it, but vote for them in the secrecy of the ballot box. But, more importantly, we should take over the Democratic Party on the local level and make our candidates responsible to us, not Corporate America or right wing religious nuts.

[jeffuppy]

203. Dems have done just what you say they would not.

You say "...whatever the failings of Democrats, they would not join Republicans in a dance around a bonfire consuming the Bill of Rights, nor sing with them in a sadistic song of mocking the poor and glorifying the rich."

But they have done just that! By cowering in the corner while the bonfire blazes they have enabled the sadistic song.

[Lerkfish]

207. silence is tacit assent

that is the problem.

[Radicalman]

212. I Think We Might Agree.....

The Dems are enablers all right. I'm simply arguing that the Reps are much worse than Dems - the old lesser of two evils stance - and that, while we should vigorously oppose them when the are enablers- we should vote for them. Too, there are no Reps like the Dems Feingold, Kucinich and others who have tried to put out the bonfire. And certainly the Black Congressional Caucus as a group haven't joined the totalitarian chorus. Finally, the Dems do have a history, a tradition, of fighting for fairness and equality that is absent in the Rep party. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but one can hope that they might return to their roots.

What is it you think really? We should give up on the Dems and form a third party? That's a defensible stance and I understand it. I don't agree with it. it's like saying we should go play rugby at the local high school stadium while the real action is in the NFL. The fight between Reps and Dems (although we both agree that the Dems are always getting the crap kicked out of them and retreating to the sidelines) is the only game in town. I think you and I ought to do the best we can to see to it that our team plays smart and tough.

[wiley]

201. Got your back. Highly Recommended and Kicked.

[Name removed]

211. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

213. kick

:kick:

[mvd]

214. Locking

This has gotten divisive. If you think you see a disruptor, hit alert and the moderators will check it out.

mvd
DU Moderator