"... the amount of time that a detainee's suffering must last before ..."

[Solly Mack]

Excerpted from "White House, Senators Near Pact on Interrogation Rules"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/21/AR2006092100298_pf.html


"The biggest hurdle, Senate sources said, was convincing administration officials that lawmakers would never accept language that allowed Bush to appear to be reinterpreting the Geneva Conventions. Once that was settled, they said, the White House poured most of its energy into defining "cruel or inhuman treatment" that would constitute a crime under the War Crimes Act. The administration wanted the term to describe techniques resulting in "severe" physical or mental pain, but the senators insisted on the word "serious."

Negotiations then turned to the amount of time that a detainee's suffering must last before the treatment amounts to a war crime. Administration officials preferred designating "prolonged" mental or physical symptoms, while the senators wanted something milder. They settled on "serious and non-transitory mental harm, which need not be prolonged."




I don't even want to know the kind of people that would actually debate how long a person's suffering must last before it's considered a war crime, much less have those kind of people in government.

[kenny blankenship]

1. parsing torture

lovely people.

[ThomCat]

2. Can we test their guidelines on them?

Really. If they are documenting that certain amounts of pain and mistreatment aren't torture then they shouldn't mind proving it. x(

[Solly Mack]

6. Those cowards would be outraged at the thought

[Solly Mack]

3. Mind numbing isn't it?

:(

[WinkyDink]

10. Quite predictable. Bushco wants to delineate in order to use

whatever is NOT specifically mentioned.

Evil.

[Solly Mack]

11. Yep

a built in expansion

[Kutjara]

4. Just discussing the matter in these terms...

...should amount to criminal conspiracy. The relevant Administration officials and senators should be jailed immediately.

[Solly Mack]

5. It really should and yes, they should be jailed. NOW..yesterday

[ThomCat]

7. When we finally get to drag them in front of

a war crimes trial, I hope someone presents this as evidence of exactly that.

[Virginia Dare]

8. Well, it's done, their consciences are clear...

they'll sleep like babies tonight I'm sure.

[Solly Mack]

9. Yes, they've done their "duty"

They've "saved" America

[annabanana]

12. Bush.. the Torture President...

That's the one, folks.

[Solly Mack]

13. When I first read the article I just

said "wow"

How do you become the type of person who judges what is a crime by the amount of time a person suffers?


I don't "get" it and I don't want to "get" it either.

[Solly Mack]

14. nudge

[jimshoes]

15. Who could have immagined

the 21st century would be the beginning of the New Inquisition. Torquemada would be jealous. I'm just beside myself.

[Solly Mack]

16. It seems so unreal....but it's our reality

and I just want to scream but I'm afraid I won't be able to stop

[countryjake]

32. The Inquisition is exactly how I view it...good comparison!

But that so much has been exposed and brought right out into the open, with those pictures and testimony from those who've been imprisoned and "disappeared"...and now, our Congress actually considering legislation on the subject, in this supposed democracy who is it that are the Inquisitors?

We are all responsible if this is allowed.

[bobbolink]

17. I know it's the responsibility of the US, but couldn't other countries

just do the inevitable, and start war crimes proceedings, NOW?!

If we learned anything from Germany, it's to not wait until the worst happens.

And I'm thinking the worst will take place in October...

:scared:

[Solly Mack]

18. I've emailed the EU and the UN asking just that

Speak out now. They've (Bush Regime) admitted to secret prisons and other violations of international law...take action now.

But then I wonder how many of those EU countries knew of the secret prisons and how many allowed them to exist in their own country.

[bobbolink]

19. I try not to think of complicity....

I don't wanna hafta keep the pharmacueticals in business buying happy pills. :crazy:

Given the pervasiveness of our corporations, I'm not sure there are many countries left who would have the backbone to speak up.

Oh thanx... now I need an ouzo or sumfin'...

:rofl:

[Solly Mack]

22. LOL You hafta laugh. :)

[bobbolink]

24. Exactly. The trick is to keep it from turning into hysterical laughter..

Haha heehee hoho, to the funny farm.... :hi:

[tnlefty]

20. Another fine example of republican, "christian" and "family" values!

Sign me up I can't wait to be a "values voter". I'll learn how to lie, cheat, steal. I'll grow to love the idea of slaughtering innocents and understand the concept of "killing them for Jesus", (which I've heard more than one loony tune actually state on c-span's WJ). I have so longed to give up any sense of humanity and decency and this whole thing of having a conscience and empathy for others is for the birds. I'm tired of being outraged, incredibly sad by the things that I read and the images that I see.

Hallelujah, I'll see at the next tent revival!!!!

[Disturbed]

21. Will the exact methods of Interrogation that have been used

be revealed? Will those now be legal? What Interrogation Methods are these Rethug sociopaths allowing? I suspect that we will never know because they will hide behind "Classified". America just sunk lower than ever before this week.

[Eric J in MN]

27. Bush claims they have to keep their methods secret or else...

...terrorists will train to resist.

The problem is that secrecy is inconsistent with democracy.

When our tax dollars are paying that CIA employee, we have a right to know what he's doing to prisoners.

[Solly Mack]

23. Exactly. Just cast all those troublesome principles away!

"One of us. One of us"

I grok completely

[tnlefty]

25. "I'm gonna wash those principles right out of my brain, I'm gonna wash

those principles right out of my brain."

BTW, what does grok mean?

[Solly Mack]

26. Utter and complete understanding, to sense, to know instinctively

through intuition and empathy...and that doesn't even really get close to the depth of it's meaning

It's from "Stranger in a Strange Land" (the title is apt in and of itself)by Robert Heinlein

I sometimes feel like a "stranger" in a strange land (America has gotten strange to me)

[tnlefty]

28. Thanks for the definition and for the book recommendation!

America has become strange to me, also.

[Karenina]

29. ...

...

[Solly Mack]

30. Yeah :(

[Lochloosa]

31. ...

:cry: