Everytime someone disses me for being a smoker, I invite them to

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

suck on a tailpipe and see which one of us dies sooner.

That is all.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

1. Or just start the vehicle up

In a closed garage.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

7. dude

I really don't want to know how you came up with your user name!

Roaring crabs brings horrible things to mind. :wow:


Belated welcome to DU!

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

29. To complex

something about Oregon coast, Cancer and Leo.

[Bucky]

92. too

God, it felt good to type that

[Greyhound]

110. I hear that! I know it is my own obsession but, the misuse of

to, two, and too, along with their, there, and they're, just drives me up the wall. Oh, and the ubiquitous verb-tense problems that seem to plague everybody that graduated HS after about 1985. :rofl: :banghead: :rofl:

[gator_in_Ontario]

113. then and than

drives me nuts
nice greyhound btw *S*

[windbreeze]

145. and hear I thought I was the only one

who upon reading a very intelligent post, would find myself absolutely cringing if it contained misspelled or misused words..(and yes, "hear" was used on purpose)
Drives me nuts...and seems to lessen the validity of whatever point the poster might be attempting to make...
wb

[TAPat]

116. everybody that graduated HS after about 1985 ...

that's: everybody WHO graduated HS after about 1985. :patriot:

[Rhiannon12866]

140. That drives me nuts, as well, LOL.

I just had to sign in on this, since I used to be a writer, and I'm OCD about words and grammar. I know what you're (not your!) talking about. It's not that tough. Apostrophes also make me crazy (its, it's) and "affect, effect," the list is long. It's no big deal to look these things up, but most people don't bother, even if their (not there or they're) words are published... :banghead:

[NanceGreggs]

2. Amen.

:smoke:

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

30. I've had people in my life die wo have smoked and not smoked...

the only common is Car Exhaust.

[LynneSin]

41. I've had people in my life die from some of the craziest things

But seriously go feed your pathetic addiction. I get great amusement to see you folks huddling outside like a bunch of dumb lab rats feeding the addiction while I get to enjoy the smoke-free environment inside my home, place of work, restaurants, bars, clubs, etc. Everywhere I go - I am the accepted one and you're nothing more than a pathetic addicted fool trying to start a thread convincing you and a few other pathetic smokers that it's so cool to be a smoker when you're nothing more than being left behind in the world.

And I just love how you endorse a habit that overwhelming supported George Bush for two elections. Hell my only vice, which anymore is an occassional beer or glass of wine, at least I have a choice in supporting Blue Companies.

And btw, I know alot of smokers here on DU and I've met many of them too. Hell I've stood out in the cold with them while they grab a smoke simply because of the great conversation we might be having. The difference between them and you is they don't go starting dumbass threads glorifying a bad habit. They know they have an addiction, some like it and some down but not one of them have ever been disrespectful to us non-smokers now have they started dumbass posts somehow claiming that smoking isn't as bad as we think it is

Hell your talking points sound like something in a republican talking points memo

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

49. "go feed your pathetic addiction"

That is the most Nazi sounding thing I have ever heard in DU. the entire quote: "go feed your pathetic addiction. I get great amusement to see you folks huddling..."

Jesus. I pray if there's a god that it would have mercy on your soul on that one.

[LynneSin]

60. That's what you're doing

I'm just calling it what it is - smokers griping because they're being forced outside so we don't have to breath their pollution. And last time I checked, there wasn't any cars inside my office building, my home or any of the restaurants where I've eaten.

And calling me Nazi-sounding is the most pathetic, desparate thing out there. I mean you do know there is a war going on and we're about to start torturing people let alone the fact that probably a shitload of voters in poor & urban areas probably won't have their vote counted.

And all you care about is your addiction.

That's what it is and the fact you had to start a bunch of threads about it in one evening shows how addictive you are.

And as I've said many many times - I've met alot of DUers and many of them were smokers and NONE of them post dumb threads like this. THey care more about making a difference in this country and fighting to get the Bush Regime out of office. Those are some of the nicest, classiest people I have met. I've stood outside in the cold with them while they smoked because they had something of interest to say and I wanted to hear about it.

All you have to say is boring crap about your pathetic addiction. I'm just pointing out the obvious

[spacelady]

52. Yes, I too find smokers to be more interesting to be around. n/t

[LynneSin]

62. I enjoy being around all people

I just prefer the ones that have something of interest to say which is usually anyone but Cable News Screeds and smokers hell-bent on obsessing about their addiction to smoking.

[ComerPerro]

54. He doesn't work for the tobacco industry, but he spouts their BS

and at the expense of people who he would otherwise (presumably) agree with he proceeds to worship a small amount of tobacco and a large amount of dangerous chemicals wrapped in paper. And he worships this idol so much that he has started 3 (at least) threads about it in the last few hours.

What's the word I'm looking for...

I want to say he is the cigarette companies' bitch, but that sounds too anti-intellectual...


I believe the word is sycophant.

I think BushBots are pathetic, but at least they worship a person, and not a cigarette...

[cool user name]

100. Looks to me like you are the one being disrespectful.

If you don't like his addiction, then fine but your diatribe was nothing but a long winded personal attack.

You could have used the opportunity to educate us instead of talking down to us "pathetic" smokers.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

4. Oh sure, drop a pro-smoking post....

When you know you'll have lots of late night company! :smoke:

[pnwmom]

5. How many of us suck directly on a tailpipe?

You live in a world full of cars, so you're breathing in the same tail-piped air that the rest of us are -- PLUS you're filling your mouth and lungs (and those of your loved ones) with extra smoke and chemicals.

So tell me again why this is a good response to the disses?

[LynneSin]

17. Exactly!!

We all breathe in air pollution and we are all affected by it and yes, some of us who do nothing else harmful whatsoever to our lungs could possibly die of lung cancer.

But adding in smoking to these lungs already working overtime to breath fresh air will only expedite your chances of getting lung cancer. With the air pollution that we breath it's almost like playing russian roulette to see if you'll survive this pollution or be affected. Smoking simply adds about 2-3 more bullets in the gun chamber for the game.

[ComerPerro]

18. No kidding. I can just imagine the high-minded level of discourse

"You know, smoking is very bad for your health, and the money you give to the tobacco companies just helps promote the RNC"

"Yeah, well, you're a retard"

[silverlib]

6. Amen II

[LeftyMom]

8. The RNC thanks you for your donation.

Your future oncologist probably appreciates the job security as well.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

9. Fact is

They both suck.

[MisterP]

10. what, RJR stock going down again?

this is like the 2nd post

[sir_captain]

11. I don't give two shits if you smoke or not

but suggesting that car exhaust kills more people than cigs do is pretty dumb.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

22. It is more toxic.

[sir_captain]

35. You don't know what you're talking about.

it obviously wouldn't be good to suck on a tailpipe. First, it'd be really hot. Second, a lot more smoke would get in your mouth than from a cigarette. But all you have to do is cut open the lungs of a smoker and a non-smoker--both of whom will have inhaled approxamitely the same level of car exhaust--to see the difference. I'm guessing you probably haven't had the pleasure of performing this sort of dissection, but I have. The image of the inside of a smoker's lungs is not something you easily forget.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

23. really? my smoking Grandfather lived to 97 until diabetes took him.

[ComerPerro]

26. Then I guess all those people who died of lung cancer were just faking

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

36. There are many other carcinogens in the air...

tobacco's just the most politically viabal target for a politician.

[ComerPerro]

37. It just so happens that a large majority of them were smokers

wouldn't that at least suggest to you that you already are exposed to enough carcinogens, there is no need to put more in your lungs by giving the RNC's donors a couple hundred dollars a month to poison you further?

[sir_captain]

31. you don't know much about science, do you?

Your story is what we like to call anecdotal evidence. Smoking is one of the most and best studied etiologies. There is irrefutable statistical evidence that on the population level, nothing contributes to death in this country more than cigarettes do. That's simply a fact. I'm glad your grandfather managed not to have it catch up to him, but that doesn't mean it will work that way for everyone.

That being said, feel free to continue smoking--it's a free country.

[boolean]

32. Seriously, are you an idiot?

Shall we start threads about bloodletting and how it cures disease?

How about a thread stating the Earth is flat?

Let's start all sorts of threads disputing long proven scientific facts!

[LynneSin]

33. My father died at age 41 from cancer

His brother(my uncle) had his tongue and jaw removed.

I've known co-workers, friends and family members with similiar stories of tobacco related illnesses.

As I said before, pollution is like Russian Roulette for all of us breating it - smoking just adds a few more bullets to the gun.

I don't give a flying fuck that you smoke and I laugh my ass off at watching you smokers so addicted to your habit that you're willing to stand out in the cold, the rain, the snow just to feed the addiction. And I'm damn grateful that Philly finally passed their no-smoking laws so I can finally go back to enjoy the bars and clubs in that city. It's been great for the 5 years I've been in Delaware enjoying myself indoors eating, drinking hanging out with my friends and watching all the little weaklings have to run outside for the fix. Oh, and business in Wilmington bars have been booming!

[The Straight Story]

58. So how come I have smoked for 20 years and it is not the same

with me?

Healthy in general, yet ALL the people I have known who have not smoked have died from various cancers,and the ones that did smoked died of other things in old age?

My X gf's mom was a fanatic on health foods, no smoking, etc, yet died from cancer. The ONLY smoker I know that died from a cancer was my neighbor and she had pancreatic cancer at 70 yrs old.

My best friend was 27 and died in a car accident. My other best friend from an accidental overdose. All my neighbor friends were footbal players and non-smokers - died of aids, heart attacks (3 in their 30's), car crashes, stomach cancer, old age (not friends my age but neighbors), and so on. My uncle smoked like a cheap whore his whole life and died from leukemia and exposure to agent orange.

The smokers I have known: Died at 86, 70, 71, 93 (aunt), and those still living as far as smokers are 68, 72, 81, and 91. Those I have personally know that were non-smokers: 27, 28, 31 (3 of em) , 32, 36, 50, 51, 52, 54, and 56 (as best I can recall at this late hour).

I, a smoker, have outlived 15 people I can think of off the top of my head.

That does not make smoking good for you :) I know a few - very few - non-smokers in relationships that have outlived their smoking counterparts. But overall, in my life, the smokers have outlived the non-smokers by a wide margin (and those I knew that most opposed smoking have died many years earlier than those that did not care either way).

Hell, in my family the smokers tended to be more dem than the non-smokers 2:1. And they lived longer. Grandpa was 86 when he went, smoked liked a wild man. Grandma died 8 years earlier and never smoked a day in her life.

To me, pollution is a bigger factor than anything.

[Bluebear]

67. .

.

[High Plains]

104. What a rude post.

I might have to take up smoking jut to blow some on you.

[flaminbats]

124. yikes..and I thought rude described me!

but he's right about what smoking does to your mouth. one of my close relatives had ALL of her teeth removed! She's in her fifties, and now wearing false-teeth :wow:

[LeftyMom]

39. And both of my smoking grandparents died of cancer before 60

That's why we do studies, large samples of data are needed to reach any conclusions about correlation and causation and to eliminate outliers.

[sir_captain]

42. Somehow

I don't think the OP has spent a lot of time reading peer-reviewed journals

[LeftyMom]

43. I get that impression. nt

[joeunderdog]

114. That must mean that if I get Diabetes, then I'll live to 97.

At least that seems to be your point.

I rate this thread a "Duh."

[mntleo2]

57. Uhhhh, I Think Car Exhaust Is More Prevalent

...with all the laws being passed for smokers to adhere to, I look out at the skyline and guess what? There is a pall hanging over the city and for miles beyond it and it is still as polluted as before smokers were banned and the act of smoking has diminished. Asthma and lung disease will not be affected much because what we are forced to breathe from pollution is far worse. this also includes all the chemicals we breathe from carpeting, cleaning fluids, and synthetic fibers that emit PCBs and other chemicals.

I am not saying that smoking does not irritate already irritated breathing, I am merely saying smoking is not the cause of most of the pollution that is creeping its way into our bodies. Walking by someone smoking a cigarette on the sidewalk is not going to do much more.

My 2 cents

Cat

[sir_captain]

93. Yeah, let's think about this with our brains

Imagine a smoker and a non-smoker. They both inhale approximately the same amount of air pollutants from smog, other sources. No doubt this is not the greatest thing for their health. The smoker, though, also smokes. This involves inhaling an enormous amount of smoke. Try cutting open a smoker's lung sometime. You have missed the point entirely.

[fishwax]

103. gosh, it seems so obvious, once you resort to

facts and logic.

[sir_captain]

111. Funny how it works like that, isn't it?

I don't understand how some people make it through life on a day to day basis.

[Jcrowley]

12. Commonality

Ford, Big Oil and GM buy up rail lines.

Phillip Morris et al put addictive chemicals into cigarettes.

It's all connected.

Otherwise your analogy is odious.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swede]

14. If you're in a hurry a gun is quicker.

But all three are suicide.

[ComerPerro]

24. LOL

[boolean]

15. And all you people saying "Amen" are also insensitive cocks.

Fuck all of ya.

My right to breath trumps your right to blow smoke in my face.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

21. kiss your momma with that mouth?

:(

[ComerPerro]

25. its a flame war!

Get it?

Smoking thread?

Flame...


?


ha...

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

28. Shit, Seriously? Damn, This Whole Time I've Thought That Blowing

smoke directly into the faces of strangers with every drag I took was enjoyed by them. I mean, I always see every smoker intentionally turning their heads and blowing smoke right up in the faces of people, so I always just assumed that was the way to do it. You mean it isn't? Bad OMC, bad. I now have seen the err of my ways and will try not to follow non smokers around anymore while getting in their faces and blowing smoke in it. Thank you for your enlightenment.


Oh yeah, don't want to forget: :sarcasm:

[blonndee]

47. Being a smoker does not equal "blowing smoke in your face."

However much you may hate smoking (and I don't blame you for that), there ARE smokers who do NOT subject others to secondhand smoke. I know all the other ethical concerns about smoking (who I'm funding, etc.), but it IS possible to be a considerate smoker, and I consider myself one. I NEVER smoke when my cigarette smoke could drift over to a nonsmoker. It's not fair for me to subject anyone else to the poison I have chosen to give myself.

And I KNOW it's not good. I'm funding seriously evil corporations every time I buy a fucking pack of cigarettes. I know that, and I have to quit it. But as one of my favorite profs likes to say, "Every liberal is a hypocrite." We cannot live ideologically pure lives. We can try, though. And I will quit. But just a LITTLE understanding would be nice. It's fucking hard as hell to quit. I quit coke and I quit crystal meth in the past, but cigarettes is something I haven't been able to kick. Yet. It does not help in the least to be lumped among inconsiderates or to be chastised for being too "weak." I know all the reasons I have to quit, and will do so. Nothing anyone can say, no insults anyone can heap upon me, can be as hurtful and chastising as those I tell myself. Okay?

[bling bling]

64. I cringed every time I saw those mean-spirited comments here.

Some of the comments, from one person in particular, are outrageous how rude they are. Those comments are abusive and wicked sounding even.

I hope you are able to quit if that's what you want to do. If not at least enjoy it -- if you're going to smoke anyway that is. When I used to smoke I enjoyed it immensely. I never felt guilty about it at all and I didn't give a crap about people who had a superiority complex about smokers. I still miss the instant gratification I got from smoking, and the social circles that smokers tend to form. But I have to say that if not more enjoyable, life really is easier as a non-smoker in many ways, once you get used to it. Anyway, good luck.

[blonndee]

65. Thank you

for your understanding. I also "enjoy it immensely," which is why it's so hard to quit. All the different little gratifications are trivial to others who haven't been there and who are so quick to judge (guess they don't have any non-progressive flaws). Only a former or current smoker would know what I mean when I say "talking on the phone" or "driving in the car."

I soo wish that I could be a non-smoker (I wish I never would have started at age 15), and I totally believe you that it's easier. I DO want to quit, but I've been smoking for more than half my goddamned life. It pisses me off, all these judgmental fucks who would forgive me for all the things I did when I was a crystal meth freak, but chastise me for not stopping smoking. JEEEZUS Christ. Let me handle one thing at a time, PLEASE! I guess that's all I have to say about this for now.

blonndee

edited for my siggie, not for any content.

[gator_in_Ontario]

117. powerful post

I consider myself a "considerate smoker" as well
My wife does not smoke, so I do not smoke in the house, car, etc. In public I go off by myself...and i hear ya about the power of the addiction...it is horrible.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

51. I will not blow smoke in your face. I promise.

I've been smoking for 40 years and haven't done it yet.

Gee. Why ain't I dead? Or sick?

[Bluerthanblue]

122. this is NOT a 'dis'- it is an

"I care about TYJ" post- because your poetry and words speak to me of a person I hope lives a long full life....

There are many people who are exposed to high levels of radiation who don't go on to develop cancer- many of those who watched the A-bomb tests, and worked with nuclear crap before it's danger became fully known. Does that mean we shouldn't encourage people not to stand out in the path of nuclear fall-out, or expose themselves needlessly to potentially deadly levels of radiation, because of the fact that SOME people aren't hurt by it?
Geez I hope not- I would never condemn you for being a smoker- I was one, and condemnation only bred more of a desire to smoke in my own case- but neither will I lie to you and say it doesn't have the potential to hurt your life seriously- if not kill you. And that would be a sad loss.

No lecture meant- no pious posturing-
Just words from someone who admires you words and wisdom, and would like to continue to read you for a long time-

peace,
blu

[ComerPerro]

16. that's idiotic

I mean, really, its just stupid.

"Everyone someone asks me to stop blowing cigarette smoke in their face, I punch them in the fucking mouth, and yell 'Who's stupid now?'"

[blonndee]

19. I love you Tom.

Your little smoking tilt tonight has been refreshing, so to speak.

[LynneSin]

27. Another clueless person justifying their filthy habit

My father dead - age 41 from lung cancer
My uncle, age 50 had his jaw and tongue removed from cancer

Both started smoking when they were young because they thought it made them look cool.

Enjoy your smoke, your smoking related illness, your shortness of breath, your disgusting stink (geez, you know how horrible smokers stink), being crowded out in the freezing cold just to give in to your addiction ALL while contributing money that overwhelming supports republicans and the Bush regime each election.

I'll take my chance with the pollution we have - no need for me to add anything addtional to my lungs to make it worse

[blonndee]

34. Ooh an ad hominem, how original!

My grandfather died of emphysema, so why don't you suck it with your insults?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

38. Sorry about Grandpa, I lost a Mother in Law to the same thing...

And She never smoked...

However, she lived in Atlanta where the drove cars.

[Sugarcoated]

56. Maybe it was from your second hand smoke.

[Sugarcoated]

55. I'm so sorry about your dad and uncle LynneSin

My grandfather and great-uncle both died slow painful deaths from emphysema and now my mom's been diagnosed with it. She's still here hanging on and suffering. Oh, and my dad died from liver cancer, but also had cancer in his throat and colon. Drinking and smoking.

[zanne]

83. I'm sorry about your father.

It must have had a terrible impact on you.

[LostinVA]

85. A brave woman, sis

But, I agree with you 100%. I never tried to justify my drug addiction... and now, 11 1/2 years after quitting cold turkey, it is unbelievable to em that I used to do that to myself.

And, the car exhaust argument is getting so old.

If you want to smoke, smoke -- and tell people it's your body... but trying to rationalize it is just so....

[notadmblnd]

20. I'm meaner..

I usually just tell them to hold their breath.

Newsflash; nobody gets out alive, And people die from many more cancers than just lung cancer. I don believe any smoker intentionally blows smoke in other peoples faces. The anti smoking crowd has managed to demonize and segregated us enough that most people don't even have to come into contact with smokers these days. If you don't like what I do, avoid me. I can assure you, I won't be walking into your space with my cigarette.

[Sugarcoated]

40. What, they make you smoke outside again?

So hell, what's wrong with a little flamebait among friends? Misery loves company?

And btw, why do smokers lungs look like this?



and non-smokers lungs don't?


Happy trails . . .

[ComerPerro]

50. Must be all those horseless carriages I've been hearing so much about

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

44. Oh shit, you guys are talking about tobacco.

Nevermind, sorry.

[JohnLocke]

45. The Republican Party sincerely thanks you.

[blonndee]

59. If you want to talk about money,

since you brought it up, after all...

where's your star?

[Kingshakabobo]

101. None of your fucking business. That's where.

:hi:

[blonndee]

107. That was my point.

:hi:

[Union Thug]

46. In the words of Montgomery Burns, "And all this time, I've been smoking...

...harmless tobacco!"

Thank god for pot.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

48. Long live Willy !

[Dem2theMax]

53. I can't comment on the tailpipe as I'm too smart to do something like that

On the other hand, I've watched two people die from lung cancer brought on by smoking.

It's an ugly, horrible, painful death. And you get to experience all sorts of new things.
Like when my friend (RIP) Marie's husband tried to pick her up. The cancer had spread from her lungs to her bones. He took one tiny step and her femur broke. That's a fun one. And there's more!

But hey, if that's the way you want to go, have at it.

[upi402]

61. i don't mind it and i never smoked

bigger frets to winge about

[The Animator]

63. Well, isn't this just fun...

I'm not a smoker myself, but I'm not in the habit of denying another human beings indulgences. Yes, smoking is bad for you but, then again, so are Krispy Kreme Donuts, but I'll be damned if somebody else is gonna tell me I can't eat them.

I can impose that restriction on myself, because I do want to lose weight, but if I was not concerned about that, or if I just gave into the temptation, I don't want to see someone blocking the door and saying you can't eat those, they're bad for you. Good food is one of my greatest weaknesses, and there are times when I think it better to die relatively young, having enjoyed as much of the baquet that life has to offer, than live a long, healthy, yet miserable life, eating twig and carboard flavored vegetables, enjoying nothing.

So no, I don't condem smokers for wanting the freedom to enjoy, that which brings them comfort. That being said, some of the smokers I've come into contact with often lack consideration for others. They will light up reguardless of where they are, or who is around them. I work at a theme park and, in accordance with the Clean Air Act we have to enforce non-smoking in specific areas. Areas like que lines. Imagine your a non-smoker, and you've been standing in a line with your family for a half an hour to get on ride, with probably another half an hour to go. Somewhere ahead of you, some college kids in front you, or an elder gentleman behind you lights up and start filling the que with smoke. Cigarette smoke makes you uncomfortable, what's worse, you youngest has asthma. What do you do? You've invested a half an hour waiting for this ride. You've shelled out over $350 just to get your family through the gate for one day, and you've only got about nine hours to make the most of it. You just gonna throw that half hour away cause some inconsiderate pricks in front of you can't go an hour without a cigarette? You're youngest starts coughing and you realize, you're damn right you are. So then you try to leave the line, and thats when it dawns on you that there is no way out of this rat maze, you've got about 200 hundred people in front of you, with another 200 behind, all shuffling around like cattle in a shute. There is no quick escape... That's just one of about a thousands examples I could give you. Another is about ten smokers, sitting on a bench puffing away with only a line of leafless bushes separating them, from the kids play area, and guess which way the winds blowing. Most of the time they people I have to approach, it's part of my job, are quite reasonable, and put out there cigarettes immediately. Some hadn't even noticed what was nearby them, and apologized with much embarassment. Then there are others, who immediately jump on me about infringing on there rights, and that they should be able to smoke wherever they damn well please... Those are the ones you tend to remember.

I have a few friends who are smokers, some of them I've known all my life. So I can appreciate the addiction. It calms their nerves when they're stressed, and helps relax them after a long, long day. As I've said before, I have my own unhealthy addictions, and I believe that whatever bring you comfort in this world, is never truly a completely bad thing. The difference is, when I eat something deep fried, there's only on person its harming.. me. That's the nature of a food addiction, it doesn't matter how many people are around you, eating doesn't make anyone else around you uncomfortable, or put their health at risk... unless your eating beans.

In that regaurd, smoking is alot like farting. Smelling your own fart is fine, smelling someone else's fart is really unpleasant, especially in a crowd. So when you start to light up, take a look around you. Would you be comfortable farting around these people? Imposing ones butt odor upon everyone else would be very bad taste. So what should you do in either case? Excuse yourself, find someplace secluded, and well ventilated, and mindful of the wind, crack one off.

And for those of you who simply denounce smokers because they're indulging in an unhealthy activity just because it gives them pleasure..

I love going to Strip Clubs too. So put that in your pipe and smoke it. :P

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

66. A fine post

And I bite my tongue and am quiest...

Almost/////


:smile:

[Rhiannon12866]

73. Thanks for the great post!

And the sympathy. I'm sorry that I ever started smoking, but I truly believe that there is a genetic predisposition. Both of my parents smoked, and every single one of my aunts and uncles who was a sibling to my parents did, as well. And they paid dearly for it. But I continue to smoke, despite being an asthmatic, because it's an addiction. At least it's still barely legal...:shrug:

But I loved your post because you talked about your theme park. I worked at a large amusement park, summers, while I was in school and I loved it. I got hired as Cinderella, LOL, but I graduated to driving the train, which was my favorite job of all time. I identify with your remarks about the lines, and the people. Smoking was okay, back when I worked at my park, though I had to sweep up the butts... My problem was sno cones. I couldn't allow food on my ride and I got seriously threatened a few times when I challenged people with sno cones! It's always something...:rofl:

Rhiannon:hi:

edited for typo :blush:

[Bluebear]

74. "It's always something."

I want thay on my tombstone, I think :)

[Rhiannon12866]

76. Sometimes I feel like Roseanne Roseannadanna

It really is always something... It would be an appropriate epitaph for most of us...:-)

[Bluebear]

68. "I laugh my ass off at you people so addicted...."

Not pity that someone got sucked into a legal addiction, but you laugh your ass off at them? That's cold. I'm sorry about various family members who died from it, they too were taken in by an addiction which has been described as harder to kick than heroin, but laugh if you must.

[QuestionAll...]

69. Tom, you are such a glorious asshole. ;)

it's a compliment!
really.

heheh.
you are Twisted. I like you.

[Rhiannon12866]

70. I smoke, too.

And I'm an asthmatic. But before anybody bitches at me, I have to say that my doctor encourages me to quit, but doesn't pressure me, and I've tried three times, and failed. If I want lectures, I have my mother, who's a "smokeless smoker," like Bush* is a "dry drunk..." :eyes:

And I hear you. There are a lot of pollutions in this world that get far less attention than the obsession with tobacco smoke. I totally hate cigars, LOL. But cigarette sales generate a lot of taxes, so it totally baffles me why the government wants to crack down on smokers...:shrug:

Rhiannon:smoke:

[mykpart]

71. I'm a former smoker.

Smoked for 38 years, quit 5 years ago. I believe in minding my own f'ing business. Smoke if you want to, Tom. Lighten up, everyone else!

[Bluebear]

72. Hardest goddamn thing I have ever done.

Sometimes I wonder if you ever get totally over it.

[Rhiannon12866]

75. I wonder too.

As I said in a previous post on this thread, I really believe that there is a genetic predisposition. Both of my parents smoked. My father died and my mother quit, not in that order, but she's been miserable, ever since.:-(

And all of my parents' siblings smoked, as well. My uncle who quit started up again when he was in his 60s, and tried to hide it. I've tried to quit three times, and failed. I've given up alcohol, caffeine, sugar and carbs, but I just can't manage to give up cigarettes, though I'm an asthmatic...:shrug:

Rhiannon:smoke:

[Bluebear]

77. How long was your uncle quit?

The one who started up in his 60's?

[Rhiannon12866]

125. I'm not sure. I'll have to ask my mother.

But she was the one who told me that he was smoking again, since he'd go off and be by himself when we went to polo matches, which he enjoyed... I don't remember him smoking, so I'd guess he must have quit for more than 20 years. My aunt never did quit, so it must have been hard for him...:smoke:

[mykpart]

78. I agree about the genetic predisposition,

or maybe it is just a predisposition to an addictive personality. I still want a cig from time to time, but I do enjoy the freedom that being a nonsmoker gives me particularly in today's smoker-unfriendly society.

[Rhiannon12866]

128. I've been told that I have an addictive personality, but I've managed to

give up everything except cigarettes. I tried "one step at a time" filters, went to Smoke-enders and, last time, a hypnotism class. I really felt that the last was the most effective, though I never believed that I was hypnotized. I have a lifetime membership, if I ever want to try it again. *sigh*:smoke:

And I understand what you mean by "freedom." It's really tough, these days, to smoke anywhere, even outside. I'm just waiting for it to become illegal in my car... I feel like a kind of pariah, though my friends smoke or they're tolerant of me. *sigh* The only one who gets on my case is my mother, who smoked for most of my life...:-(

How did you manage to quit, anyway?:shrug: Good for you.:pals:

edited for typo

[mykpart]

137. Hey, Rhiannon, if you're here,

I quit smoking after I had a heart attack and triple bypass surgery. I spent 3 weeks in the hospital, which helped me get thru the initial withdrawal, and fear did the rest. Guess that's why I can be tolerant of smokers. Nicotine is more addictive than heroin. Really wanting to quit for yourself, and not for others, is the key, I guess. Good luck if you try again.

[Rhiannon12866]

139. Yes, I'm here, my friend. :-)

Yikes! I'm so very sorry that you had to go through so much. It sounds like what you faced was both frightening and physically painful. I've had surgery, myself, three times, unrelated to any of this, and know well that it's both scary and tough to go through, withdrawal or not. And I understand about the fear. My father died of throat cancer and my mother never lets me forget it. I'm scared, but my addiction is more powerful, as was my father's. Thanks for the kind words. We smokers can use them. And more power to you. I'm in your corner, too. :-)

Rhiannon:hug:

[Beausoir]

129. Me too. Been quit for 12 years and am just now starting to smoke "one or

two"

It never ends.

I hate smoking. But I understand why people can't quit. And I try really hard not to be a zealot about it. I just don't want someone smoking around my kids.

[Roon]

112. I quit smoking almost two years ago

after being a smoker for 21 years. I still dream about smoking!

[Rhiannon12866]

146. How did you do it?

:shrug:

[Roon]

148. The patch and group

gotta have group.

[Rhiannon12866]

149. Thanks.

Rhiannon:hi:

[kdpeters]

79. Smoke outside and properly dispose the butts is all I ask.

It's all anyone has a right to ask. I know there are way to many over-vigilant non-smokers, but there are plenty of inconsiderate smokers. But in my experience, most smokers don't mean to be and aren't defensive if you're direct, polite, and reasonable.

[patricia92243]

80. Maybe they just love you and are worried about your health. n/t

[symbolman]

81. I'd like to have one day a year where by law

you must dump two blue tablets into your gas tank of your car, and ALL CARS, TRUCKS, anything that runs on fuel MUST do this on the special day, and the result would be that the blue tablets make ALL of the emissions Totally VISIBLE from every car, truck, boat, etc..

Call it National "SEE THE POLLUTION" DAY.

You wouldn't be able to see more than two feet ahead of you, and may not be able to see your hand. People think because they can't SEE the pollution coming out of the tailpipe it ain't there.. oh, it's there, and it's LETHAL.

Cigarettes are the LEAST of our problems, try smokestacks dumping TONS of LETHAL chemicals into the sky and oceans 24/7, and the AUTOMOBILE is one of the worst of all.

I've been around the world, and there have been times, Like in NYC in the morning, late fall in TImes Square, where I SIMPLY CANNOT BREATHE, and feel like I'm going to drop and DIE on the spot...

It's one of the reasons I moved to Hawaii, so I could have fresh ocean breezes in my lungs and maybe live a decade or two more. The auto has been revealed to be one the main causes for all these new crops of kids walking around in great numbers with ASTHMA. And I suspect a LOT of cancers are caused by AUTOS as well.

A Car in a closed garage will kill you in MINUTES.

[the other one]

82. Stop leaving your filters around please.

I don't care if you smoke yourself to death or suck on a tailpipe or handgun. I am sick and tired of cigarette butts everyfuckingwhere. They don't break down real easy you know. Smokers just seem to think they have entitlement because they are smokers.

[BlueEyedSon]

84. How does one post a negative recommendation vote?

[jazzjunkysue]

86. Smokers smell. They don't have to light up.

Don't post here if you don't want other people to respond.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

87. bggot

[jazzjunkysue]

98. See? Smoking is bad for your spelling. I don't hate smokers, just

their foul smell.

They could stop of course, and smell ok.

That's not bigotry. That's my olfactory system functioning normally, and I'm entitled to my opinion.

If you don't want other opinions, stop posting on message boards.

[peacebuzzard]

88. I don't like to be around cigarette smokers.

or most people for that matter.

That is why I have chosen my life style as a quasi-hermit and share my living space with companion animals.

I prefer to clean up poop in the yard than clean up ashtrays.

But I do enjoy all my virtual friends on this board.....and to envision slices of your life styles on my own time.....

Smoke away, bro.

By the way, I do not have the same aversion to the illegal smoke, there are some health benefits there....and I do not find it so nasty. I do not partake myself at this time (employment issues) but as a recreation, it is far less harmful than excess alcohol.

P.S. (on edit) another issue for me is I have a mentally handicapped sister who is totally addicted to cigarettes and has severe behavior issues in regards to this addiction. She gives up everything to try to smoke cigarettes. It is very stressful to observe. She panhandles if she can; that is the main focal point for her...not the money, but the cigarettes. I think it is her psychotropic meds that induce the cravings. It has been a tremendous uphill battle for me to try to modify her social-behavior patterns. She has been through bizarre and hazardous situations because of this.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

90. Good reminder...

I think I'll go get lazy for a while,

[peacebuzzard]

94. Wish I could stay awhile ....

but now I have to go suck up jet fuel and take a stress tab.

Just one more year of this and I can semi retire.....(I think that is the plan......may change at any time....)

[deminks]

89. I quit some time ago

for my health and those around me, and because I didn't want big tobaccy playing with my addiction - owning me - making me their slave.

Emissions are another story deserving our attention as well.

[Toots]

91. Nothing like bragging about being stupid

that is all..

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

96. I like to brag about my strong points....

Gimme a break! :hi:

[niallmac]

95. I don't have much love in my heart for the act of smoking

no do I care much for religion. I do however try to afford everyone with as much respect
as I can muster.

I think rude people are the biggest assholes of all.

[The Animator]

97. Time for some more theme park related experience.

I've had a number of people complain to me that they don't know where the smoking areas of the park are. Well, just FYI, if you see astrays in a particular area, then that's a smoking area. If you need some nicotine, stop there and satisfy the craving, or go back to that area when you do need one.

Alot of this just boils down to people not being observant, which everyone I've dealt with in my buisness is guilty of, in one way or another smoker or not. Watch clerks for the "Where's the bathroom?" question.

If you find that you've lit a cigarette, and then discover, to your dismay, that there are no ashtrays, put it out immediately, because the absence of ashtrays implies that smoking is not permitted in this area. When getting rid of your cigarette, please do not just flick it away. Three times the otherday I found still burning cigarettes on the ground. Not only is it a pointless gesture because it's still filling the area with smoke, but it's dangersous too. Don't ask me why, but some parents will let their toddlers run around the park barefoot. The very last thing I need is a barefoot three year old to step on a lit cigarette outside my queline. Baby will start screaming, several pains of glass will shatter, a canary somewhere will explode, dogs everywhere ask "what the hell?", and blood start coming out of my ears. The parent's, naturally, have no idea why the kid is crying, so they pick him up, and take the little banshee into my queline, where they can share the sound of their shrieking spawn with four hundred other people, for a full hour. Find a trash can... those are everywhere.

P.S. make sure you extinguish it thuroughly before throwing it in the trash, I've seen a number of raging trash can fires start that way.

[gator_in_Ontario]

119. heh heh...do you work for Disney? n/t

[The Animator]

138. No, I currently work for the competion.

Universal Studios, been there for years, though I am seriously contemplating leaving. I have, however, also drawn caricatures at Animal Kingdom (aka the 9th level of Hell), and before movng to Orlando, spent sometime working at Buch Gardens. So, to be fair, I've witnessed extreme stupidity at every theme park in Florida.

MFARSQ (Most Frequently Asked Really Stupid Questions)

Disney: "What time is the Three O'Clock Parade?"
Sarcastic Answer: The 3:00 parade will begin promptly at 5:37 pm.

Universal Studios: "Where do you get the Fast Passes?"
Sarcastic Answer: Disney

Buch Gardens Tampa Bay: "How do you get to Tampa?"
Sarcastic Answer: "Well... Take I-4 East about a hundred miles or so.. when you get to Orlando, turn around and come back.

[lonestarnot]

99. Tell them to smoke this

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1396271232701024595&q=diebold&hl=en

[walldude]

102. Smoker, happy to keep my nasty habit away from

non-smokers. Happy not to smoke in lines, indoors or anywhere else it might bother someone, but it seems to me that many non-smokers would like it if I couldn't smoke anywhere. Outdoors, in my home, in my car. Which is fine if thats just your opinion, but to get in my face and call me names is really a desperate attempt to seem superior. Sure I smoke, I smoke pot and eat magic mushrooms(when I can find them)too. On the other hand I don't eat red meat, I don't drink coffee, I don't drink alcohol, I don't use too much salt or sugar or do many other thing considered "bad for you". I'm assuming that all you people who are happily pissing on smokers have no vices or bad habits. You perfect people should just put all us flawed people on an island so you can live your happy healthy self-righteous lives in a clean sterile environment.
Mind you I don't necessarily agree with the OP either but the response from some of the high and mighty non-smokers is really over the top, unless I'm mistaken and you are all perfect.

[bbgrunt]

105. flame bait. One sure way to attract attention

is to mention smoking and you get an emotional hurricane. Is this just a diversion to vent our feelings rather than rag on the cowardice of the democratic party when it comes to protecting the constitution?

Damn, I swear there is some serious social engineering going on here.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

108. Damn! You pegged me! now go here fore reeducation:

http://www.leftandrightfight.com/artwork.html

[WritingIsMyReligion]

106. I don't give a damn if you smoke or not.

Don't make me inhale your toxins in a public place, however. The atmosphere is sucky enough without having to breathe in cigarette smoke as well.

[Zhade]

109. People shouldn't diss you for that.

That said, I hope you manage to quit someday - people like you are too valuable to lose to the agony of cancer!

[Beelzebud]

115. The plan worked. You don't hear shit about industrial pollution now.

Pick on the little guy. Pick on the average citizen.

Meanwhile chemical companies, refineries, and nuclear power plants are poisoning the whole fucking planet, and making TRILLIONS in the process.

But NO! Lets not go after them! Let's get in a circular firing squad and attack each other for something that is MINISCULE compared to industrial pollution.

[Irreverend IX]

118. How many packs a day do you smoke?

And why don't you skip the middleman and donate that money directly to the Republican Party?

[earth mom]

120. Have you ever seen anyone die of Lung Cancer?

Because it's NOT a pretty sight.

My Dad was a life long smoker-one to two pack a day smoker-until overnight his cancer flared and took over, all from moving a refrigerator a few feet.. At first Dad thought he had torn his rotator cuff, went to a chiropractor who told him he needed to see a doctor asap.

That's when the hell started. Dad didn't have health insurance and while he qualified for medicare, he would have to wait for 6 months until it kicked in. Our only option for him was the "charity" hospital that was also a teaching hospital where the waits to see the Very Cold, Impersonal and Not Very Knowledgeable Doctors were literally hours long while Dad ached in pain. It also took hours to get the lab results to tell us what we pretty much already knew: that it was Small Cell Lung Cancer. Then they added insult to injury by giving Dad the weakest pain killers they could and basically sent him home to die although they didn't inform us of what was really going on and we didn't know if Dad could be cured or not! So Dad suffered for a few more days until none of us could take it anymore and we went back to that fucking hospital again and finally found a kind doctor who took pity on Dad and arranged for radiation treatments and better pain killers. This is when we found out that the cancer Dad had could NOT be cured. After the radiation treatments were over, we got the fucking hell out of dodge and moved north to see if we could get better treatment in another state. Which we did. Mercifully, the doctors were kind and set up chemo and also gave dad meds that killed most of the pain.

But of course none of it worked because again, there is no cure for Small Cell Lung Cancer and Dad continued to disintegrate. He was so weak he could barely get up to go to the bathroom and wouldn't shower for up to a week no matter how we tried to make him. The reality was that the stench was so unbearable that we could barely be in the same room with Dad. My husband had to pretty much carry Dad-his father in law-into the shower to clean him up. It was humiliating for my Dad to say the least! Not to mention embarrassing for my husband! At that point Dad was also on oxygen and taking massive amounts of morphine.

My Dad died almost ONE YEAR after he first went to the chiropractor. In the end, he had a panic attack, and could barely breathe even on the oxygen. So we called an ambulance to take him to the hospital where he and I only had minutes to say goodbye before his brain drifted off and into delirium after he was given meds to calm him down. He died the next morning when I left his side for just a moment to use the tiny bathroom in the room. The chaplain said he had probably been hanging on because I WAS THERE all that time and he didn't want to let me go. :cry: :cry: :cry:

What a hell of a way to die! I can't imagine the pain my Dad was in and can't imagine the panic he felt that last night not being able to breathe! The kicker of it all is is that my husband smokes! Yup that's right. 5 years later and my husband still smokes. He knows what he's facing, and he knows it ain't pretty. However, he is considerate and only smokes outside the house, even in the dead of winter because he doesn't want his family to die like my Dad did. And here's something else: even knowing and seeing my Dad die so horrifically I don't ride my husbands ass all the time to quit. Sure, I remind him every so often that he needs to try again to quit. And though I want to bitch at him every damn day, I don't because I know how hard it has been for him to try and quit before. But after typing all this, I realize that it's probably time to start bitching at him some more! A few months back, someone posted about a new treatment that worked for them, can't remember exactly what it was. If anyone remembers, can they please reply to my post? TIA.

And one last thing. I am very glad that I do NOT smoke. I would NOT want to die that way!!!

[Demit]

132. You seem to be implying that by not smoking, you will control how you

die, and that the way you die will be more pleasant?

I am not dissing your sad experience of watching your dad die. I was very sad watching my dad die too. He had prostate cancer. But that gave me no solace. It was no better for the fact that it was not lung cancer. In fact it was very horrible. So you may be able to control how you don't die, I guess, but you are not guaranteeing yourself anything. I just don't see any reassurance in the fact that if you don't smoke you will die an easy painless death. There are too many nasty painful horrible illnesses out there that people have to experience just before they die. And they are waiting for many of us, regardless of whether we are smokers or nonsmokers.

[earth mom]

144. No, what I'm saying is that you don't want to die of lung cancer.

Of course, no one can predict how they will die. My Mom was a heavy smoker too, and was killed by a hit and run drunk driver which was a horrific way to die. More so than Dads death. But if you are a smoker and want to slow down or stop the progression of lung cancer, then quit. Because it's a fact that smoking IS the leading cause of lung cancer.

http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35427

[bling bling]

135. A couple of places I went for information:

www.quitsmoking.com
www.whyquit.com

Arm yourselves with information before he attempts to quit. You can go through the threads on the discussion board at quitsmoking.com for good tips and ideas.

Whyquit.com is helpful for people trying to quit cold turkey but it can also be used to gather information in general.

There are a couple of aids that I've personally seen that are helpful. Wellbutrin can be helpful, especially for people who are prone to depression. If he wants to go this route he should set a quit date about a month in advance from when he starts the Wellbutrin. Cut down gradually for that month and then stop altogether on the quit date.

Another popular and recommended aid is an artificial cigarette that you can put to your mouth and actually get the sensation of inhaling a menthol substance (non-nicotine). This can be comforting and help a lot psychologically (which is often more of a problem than the physical addiction). The only place I can see to get this is on the manufacturer's website www.ezquit.com.

He could also try the patch. I've known people who have quit using the patch. I tried it before and I didn't find it that helpful for me but we're all different.

I think the most importantly thing is education. The more he forces himself to learn about smoking, cigarettes, addiction, and the consequences the more likely he'll be to commit to quitting and stay quit. But even if he isn't successful the first time he shouldn't feel too bad because he's in good company. I once read that 90% of people who try to quit are unsuccessful the first time.

I think using the online community available such as the websites above can be very helpful in terms of support. That's what I did when I quit smoking. It was so helpful to know that there were others going through the same thing as I was. There's something very comforting and also motivating about doing something as a group rather than alone.

I doubt any of these were the new treatment you were wondering about but I thought I'd chime in anyway. Maybe you're thinking of the ear therapy. I'm not sure what it's called but they do something inside your ear or something and it supposedly helps people quit smoking. I don't personally know anyone who quit this way so I can't vouch for its success. I do know people who know people who tried it and it worked.

Best of luck.

[earth mom]

143. Thank you for the great information-I really appreciate it!

My husband quit once for about 6 or 8 months and has also tried the patch and the gum more than once. What I think I remember from that old post here on DU was someone discussing a pill you could take. :shrug:

That is great that you were able to quit! :applause: How did you do it? I remember reading somewhere that once you quit your lungs start to clear up and you can really lower your chances of dying of lung cancer. But of course, nothing is guaranteed or for sure, but since smoking is the leading cause for lung cancer, it's wise to try and quit before you smoke for too long a time frame. My husband has smoked for 30 years so it's really time for him to quit!

Anyway, Thanks again! :hi:

[Bluerthanblue]

121. I for one, would never dis you, but I can't say

that I wouldn't WISH you could kick the habit-
and be willing to encourage you in any way possible to free yourself from the hold tobacco has on you.

I'm an ex-smoker (15yrs now, and I have NO REGRETS)-
I also watched someone I love suffocate because of lung disease brought on by decades of inhaling tobacco smoke, while stockholders, and corporations like Phillip Morriss knew exactly what they were doing to people and only cared about the all mighty dollar-

You aren't a BAD or WEAK person because you smoke- Kicking it is harder than kicking Cocaine- someday you might decide to do it, I hope for your sake you do- But it is your life, and your choice- (and you aren't blowin smoke through my computer screen into my face- I might ask you to not do that without saying you were a jerk for needing to smoke-)

:dunce:
We DO need ways to transport people and things over great distances- But smoking begins as a personal choice- and isn't necessiary for life, or the good of humanity- so, your analogy doesn't fit too well-

peace,
blu

[Cha]

123. YEah, that will help you.

Just don't blow your smoke in my face. I know that was mean but I really don't like either.

[The Straight Story]

126. just thought I would toss out this photo:

[Buzz Clik]

127. You know someone who sucks on tailpipes?

That would be interesting.

My dad died of cancer from smoking. Good luck.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

130. Non-smoker's lung v smoker's lung

Any questions?

[Demit]

133. Here's one: Don't both of those lungs come from someone who is dead?

Apparently you are pointing out that the owner of the lung on the right died of lung cancer. That means the owner of the lung on the left died of something else. But the person still died, correct?

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

134. Now THAT'S the way to grasp at straws!

That was almost Republican in its utter lack of any connection with reality.

:yourock:

[Demit]

141. My point is that everybody dies of something. That's reality.

[LWolf]

131. You know,

I never, not even for a nanosecond, spent any time wondering if "Tom Yosarrian Joad" was a smoker, or deciding to format an opinion about TYJ's health or habits.

But now that you've invited me to consider you as a "smoker," I'll just say this:

Tobacco addiction is not a good thing.

That is all.

[Tyo]

136. Just smoke and enjoy it

I smoked for about a year and loved every second of it. But don't bother me with your second hand smoke and don't whine if you get cancer.

[Speed8098]

142. Silliest post I've ever seen

Tom, you must think everyone here is an idiot.

I was a 37 year smoker. I quit almost 2 years ago. Smartest move I ever made.

You've been duped. Quitting smoking is EASY. Just put them down and forget it. My wife and I both quit the same way.

Smoke if you want, but quitting is smarter.............not to mention that my t-bone steak tastes much better now that my palate isn't mucked up with tobacco.

[Red Right and BLUE]

150. I did the same. It took three tries.

First time, I lasted 3 months. Second time, I lasted 6 months. Now I'm going 2.5 years and I don't miss it at ALL. It was so easy, I don't know why. I guess my time to stop had just come when it was right. I quit cold turkey. I know it will never be a problem again. I'm done for good.

My hubby on the other hand, is not as lucky as me. He wants to quit eventually but the addiction is brutal for him. I've told him he can do it if he LETS himself. It really is so easy, I tell him. He can just stop, like me. I guess different things work for different people. We seem to be wired differently on this one.

He smokes outside and for the most part doesn't bother me. But he if goes for a kiss afterward... OOF. I think the stench is much worse to an ex-smoker than a never-smoked-before'er.

The OPost is ridiculous, and on the other hand, bullying people or ridiculing them will not make them stop. So everyone just calm down and learn to deal with others being DIFFERENT. Luckily I'm in Cali where there is no one actually blowing smoke on me. And I don't meet a lot of people who would do that to anyone, either.

PFFT to both extremes. We have bigger fish to fry.

[trekbiker]

147. smoke all you want... so long as I dont breath or even

smell that disgusting filth.. banning smokers from the workplace and restaurants was the best thing thats happened here in California. oh yea.. Women.. if you are beautiful, fair skinned and 20 something... for Godsake DONT SMOKE!! by the time your are in your mid 40's you'll have a prune for a face and a neck only a turkey could love... and that's a crime (or it should be)