Where does this BS about "restoring the caliphate" come from?

[Skidmore]

It gets inserted into every Republican speech now--Islamofacists want to restore the caliphate from Spain to some unspecified geographic point east of we don't know where. I've never heard this once before the past month. The only thing I've heard is that the Islamic world would like us to go home and mind our own business. Then there's all this bull about forcing Christians to convert to Islam that is implied in this talking point. You can't force people to believe anything they don't want to believe--try democracy, for example. What is the origin of this talking point? Who started with it?

[DoYouEverWonder]

1. The only people I have ever met

that try to force their religion down my throat are so-called Christians. I have never met a Muslim or a Jew (with one exception) that had any desire for me to convert or adopt their POV.

[razors edge]

2. They all give up on me pretty quick.

but the christians are the most prevalent in america so i expect more of them.

just more booga booga to keep you in line.

[FloridaPat]

3. While the Christians are waiting for Jesus to return, the Muslims are also

waiting for Muhammad to return. That might be where that is coming from. And I believe the Jews are still waiting for the messiah.

[RC]

4. And all 3 groups believe that their guy is in makeup waiting

for just the right moment to show up here.
The sky is cloudy is proof enough.

[PsychoDad]

6. Actually we are also awaiting the return of Jesus (pbuh).

Muhammad is dead and remain that way until the last day when we are all raised for judgment. Muslims believe, as do Christians, that Jesus will return at some future point and be recognized by True Muslims, Jews and Christians as the messiah. Jesus will then bring about an age of peace and prosperity unmatched in all of history.

It is said that before this happens that Muslims will be persecuted and engaged in a war with the forces of the "Dajil", or "The Lier", who will be able to see only the material side of things, have the letters C.F.R. upon it's forehead and will promise the world "paradise" or "hellfire". Unlike many evangelical Christans, we do not believe the Dajil will be Jewish.

During this time the Mahdi, who's name is said will be Muhammad, will arise to rally the Muslims and fight the forces of Dajil. It is during the last stand of the Mahdi in Damascus that Jesus (pbuh) will return to confront the Dajil. The Dajil will flee, like the coward that he is, and will be pursued by Jesus, ending in a final battle.

(sound like bush?)

Anyway, this is just a nutshell encapsulation of Islamic future prophecy and I hurry to add that it is all Prophetic hadeeth, or reported sayings of the prophet Muhammad. Very little is mentioned in the Quran. It is more important to live life today, and to practice kindness and love toward our neighbors than it is to obsess oneself with possible future events.

Ramadan Mubarak and peace.

[FloridaPat]

13. Neat post. Thanks! CFR in which alphabet? The originial is in arabic?

[Generic Other]

16. Does the FR part stand for Free Republic?

So the C must stand for Conservative.

[PsychoDad]

22. CFR in Arabic.

KFR or CFR the letter for hard C or K in arabic are the same. Many Muslim scholars feel that the KFR stands for Kufir (Unbeliever) which is spelled that way. If so, the question then would be, why didn't the Prophet(pbuh) simply say Kufir, why spell out the letters?

Perhaps the letters are initials? As in Council on Foreign Relations? :) Perhaps the anti-christ carries the "Seal of approval" of C/K F R ?

Just speculation :) Sometimes my tin foil kufi gets pretty tight

Peace

[Armstead]

15. So if both Christians and Muslims believe in the return of Jesus....

...What's all the fuss about? Seems like they'd be more like allies.

Also, I'm a fairly secular (agnostic) guy but I too worry about the evils of materialism.

It all gets so confusing.

[FloridaPat]

17. Muhammad said he was the return of Jesus. Both religions are

waiting for the return of their respective prophet. There are so many people that believe that if you don't believe in what they believe in you're going to hell. The extremes on both sides are continuing the crusades. I heard on Bill Maher last night that idiot from Fox say the Christians won the Crusades. They didn't - the Muslims did. So here we are again. And the Jewish situation isn't helping. Neither is the oil situation.

[PsychoDad]

21. I'm sorry to disagree.

But no, Muhammad never said that he was Jesus, or Isa in Arabic (Peace be upon them both) or the return of Jesus. Muhammad did claim to be the next prophet after Jesus and that his message and Jesus' were the same, as was the message of all the prophets sent to humanity. That message being that there was only one God and that we each have an obligation to all of humanity as we were all brothers.

Peace.

[FloridaPat]

28. I was using the Chritian terms, but in plain English, you said it correctl

Thank you for the translation.

[PsychoDad]

23. Christianity, Judaism and Islam...

Have much, much more in common than differences. It's a shame we can't seem to see beyond those and simply embrace our shared humanity.

Peace.

[flordehinojos]

5. my son, a catholic boy who now practices his christianity in some

non-denominational christian church wanted to convert his jewish wife to "christianity". he finally got it throug his head(mostly from my repeating it over and over and over) that the only christianity of the only christian he needs to be concerned about is that of himself...he needs to let her be. i am so glad he finally got it through his head. it makes for a lot of peace in their home. i just imagine what could happen if meddling christians would (or could) just let the world be.

[PsychoDad]

7. It comes from a desire among Muslims...

To unite a shattered Ummah, or Islamic community, under a common leader and return to an Islamic golden age.

This desire has existed since the fall of the Caliphate and the splintering of Islam.

Peace.

[H2O Man]

8. Right.

It is not a new concept. Nor is it a creation of the republicans. People should become familiar with Islam. I say that without advocating that anyone convert. Just become familiar.

I remember in the early 1980s, Dick Gregory said that America would never be able to deal with the Islamic world, because it had not come to understand Malcolm X. He said this at a time when many in this country wanted to attack Iran. I've thought a lot about that in the past couple of days.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. Actually under the right circumstances

a modern caliphate could be an improvement over the assorted hideous despotic and/or subservient regimes that rule the Islamic world today. How about a democratic caliphate? A united and progressive and democratic Islamic nation from North Africa to Indonesia? There is no particular reason why this has to be bin Laden's dark vision of a circa 1200 theocracy. On the other hand it is, in all of its forms, a fantasy. What we have instead is, as stated above, one despotic regime after another, some subservient to the interests of the western global capitalist elites, others more or less independent, all of them bleak and backwards.

[rockymountaindem]

24. IIRC, Richard Clarke brought this up in his book Against All Enemies

The longing to restore the Caliphate among certain Muslims does not surprise me. It was during that period that Islam reached its largest lead over the West in terms of technological sophistication and military power. It was as you say a golden age for Islam. If I were a radical Muslim leader trying to appeal to impoverished Muslims in the Mideast, that would probably be an image I would use, especially since its significance is widely understood.

What I don't understand is Bin Laden and other terrorists' references to the collapse of the Ottoman Empire as a "catastrophe" or otherwise as a negative event. While I understand it somewhat because the Ottomans were the last Islamic "world power", they were not popular among the Arabs, who they dominated and subjected to colonial status. Even Bin Laden's own ancestors, the Arab tribes of Arabia, fought against the Ottomans during WWI and helped bring about their downfall. In addition, the Ottomans were largely corrupt, hardly pure by religious standards, and deeply in bed with the west. Prior to WWI, the Ottomans had become almost a wholly-owned subsidiary of the UK (in economic terms), but then sided with the Central Powers so as to fight against their longtime foes the Russians.

Why a fundamentalist Arab would turn to the days of the Caliphate, and "righteous" leaders such as the Rashidun Caliphs and Uthman II I get. The Ottoman thing just seems misguided in my opinion.

[1932]

9. It's my understanding that this was expressed by the Taleban gov't in Afgh

That government said that their desire was to set an example for government that would sweep east and west to the former Caliphate.

I know the Republicans exploit this for their own purposes, but I didn't know that people denied that this was the case.

Anyone have links or titles of book where this is disputed?

[MadHound]

11. It is an Islamist concept best expressed by Sayyid Qu'tb

In his seminal books "MIlestones" and "In the Shade of the Qu'ran". In these books he laid out his political theory for bringing about an Isamist hegemony both in the ME and the rest of the world. He wished to restore the caliphate, and have shariah rule over all. It is these seminal works that have had the most impact on people like bin Laden and other Islamist leaning leaders.

[Totallybushed]

12. What about

those two FAUX News reporters? They were forced to convert. Of course, they renounced their conversion when they got back to the states, but why should they have had to do it to begin with.

Not everyone has the luxury of returning to the United States.

If you haven't heard about the "caliphate" before the last month, you must not have been paying attention. Try some of the Muslim websites. I recommend www.islamicity.com for a starting place.

Yeah, the Muslims would like us to go home, and you and I agree with them. However, just because we're in the wrong, that doesn't necessarily put them in the right. Most Muslims ARE decent people who just want to be left alone to enjoy their own potty little lives, same as the rest of us. Then there are those who want to kill us, and wanted to long before GWB even thought about running for President, let alone figured out how he was going to steal the election.

[dkofos]

25. In an effort to keep ones head firmly attached to ones shoulders

you would do the same.

[Totallybushed]

26. Let's say that I would

instead of spitting in their eye, and trying to summon as much courage as that Italian guy who told them, "You will see how an Italian dies". You have to admire a man with those kind of balls.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1192702,00.html

That is what is known as a "forced conversion". I was replying to this statement by the original poster, "<i>Then there's all this bull about forcing Christians to convert to Islam that is implied in this talking point. You can't force people to believe anything they don't want to believe--try democracy, for example. What is the origin of this talking point? Who started with it</I>, and you have made my point for me. Thank you.

[Igel]

14. Even UBL whined about the caliphate's

demise in one of his speeches. It wasn't a straightforward reference, but was there--so many years of humiliation, etc., which, if you count back, started with the caliphate's termination.

[Porcupine]

18. Romance Novels!!! It's the only reading GOP women do.

And in romance novels Islam is ruled by a Caliphate and the heroine is seized by Algerian pirates and hauled into the harem so Islamic decadence can be described in detail; very explicit detail. Then she's rescued because security in Islamic royal houses is horribly lax.

I'm sure Ann Coulter is just drooling over the thought of a return to the Caliphate and getting captured by the local Shayek.

[ck4829]

19. Never heard a single Muslim mention it

[countryjake]

20. It's probably a calculated response to those Nasrallah speeches...

during the attack on Lebanon this summer. He ranted several times that zionists intend to occupy all the land from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River, so the right-wing is doing a verbal tit-for-tat to excuse their support and non-action on the occupation of Palestine.

[Malikshah]

27. From someone whose career is spent researching this particular

"institution" I cannot wait for the day when I am asked this question in public...

It's pseudo-historical twaddle from those who don't know or willfully ignore history.

And they should be publicly ridiculed and shunned.