eBay bans black metal.

[Benfea]

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=58406

eBay has caved in to certain Christian groups, and is quietly pulling black metal (heavy metal with Satanic themes) listings off their site. These Christian groups have apparently convinced eBay that Satanic themes count as "hate speech" that is "discriminatory" towards Christians.

Fuckitty fuck fuck.

Goodbye liberty, hello theocracy. When does the Inquisition start?

Disclaimer: I am not personally familiar with any of the listed bands or albums. Does anyone know if any of these albums really contain real hate speech? (e.g. white supremacy crap, Nazi stuff, etc.)

[rocktivity]

1. Isn't Christian music "hate speech" that discriminates against Satanists?

Ebay should therefore pull ALL religous-themed music off their web sites!

:evilgrin:
rocknation

[smtpgirl]

4. Oh, so I can't buy Pantera, Prong, Sytem of a Down

on a eBay, oh I am so depressed!! But I am a doom metal freak from the '80's, WHAT DO I KNOW!!

The all-time doom/thrash metal band THE OBSSESSED from Rockville, MD I partied with that crowd!!!

The party house was on Isbell St. in Wheaton/Glenmont, MD

The Outside Inn, where the Obsessed played many shows

That Band ROCKED!!


WIKI:

The Obsessed was a 1990s Doom metal band formed originally in the early 1980s, in Potomac, Maryland led by Scott Weinrich. Later on the group moved into a band house in Rockville, Maryland where some of their most creative and hardest music was written. Before this move however original guitar player John Reese went his separate way. The band became a trio and stayed that way until the mid eighties when Vance Bockis and Norman from Hellion joined the band. During this time the band won the infamous Battle of the Bands at Baltimores Marble Bar by actually beating up one of the competing bands (They had it coming)Dave Williams younger brother Dale Flood of Asylum saved Wino that night from taking a Fender Bass over the head. (After Weinrich spent time with the pioneers of 1990s doom metal and related genres, Saint Vitus, he reformed Obsessed and released The Obsessed. In spite of a series of line-up shifts, Obsessed signed to Columbia Records for The Church Within (1994, see 1994 in music), which received rave reviews but ended up being the band's last. Weinrich then formed a band called Spirit Caravan, which ran until 2002. Weinrich now fronts The Hidden Hand.



:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:


:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:


eBay SUCKS ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BurtWorm]

6. You speak for me.

:toast:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

27. we called it death metal...

pantera, testament, death, cannibal corpse, judas priest.

:headbang:

[smtpgirl]

10. Geraldine and Ricky , eBay shouldn't sell this shit TOO!!

Christian Ventriloquist and Comedian

Spotswood Baptist Church
A lighthouse to the Community

Contact Us
4009 Lafayette Blvd
Fredericksburg, VA 22408
Phone: [phone]
TTY: 540-898-1817
Fax: [phone]
Hours: 8:00 AM-4:00PM

[NoPasaran]

16. Trees talk too!

In the voice of SATAN!

[ComerPerro]

31. Christian music trashes Statan and non-Christians all the time

[RandiRhodesArchives]

43. praise jesus!

It's also so funny how uber christians will never pick up a copy of Satanic Bilbe or Crowley's books. If your faith is so solid and secure, what's the problem? Feel threatened?

[bananas]

2. There's a band called "Voice of America" which is neo-nazi

Oh wait, it's not a band, it's a government radio station.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2208784

[lvx35]

3. Edit: Some of these bands may actually be hate speech.

I flipped out when I first heard this, but I did some research, and a lot of the stuff is nordic black metal, which has a lot of neo-nazi stuff.

http://www.thepaganfront.com/wotanorden/news.html

This is the website of one of the bands, sporting such themes "Aryan culture preservation". Another band is named 'Zyklon B' the agent used to kill victims in the Nazi death camps. It's not all about satanism or religious freedom here...It might be Ebay has a legit policy against hate speech at play...

[buddhamama]

20. Hate speech is allowed

to be spoken everday in this country. And while I don't agree with the 'hate', I am not okay with censorship, nor the banning of such material, because of its arbitrary nature.

Ebay Has banned items before from being sold on their site, but as far as I know they have only done so when those items are in direct violation of "Laws" from the originating country of the seller. for example, someone in Germany would not be allowed to sell Nazi related material e.g. an item containing a Swastika because there exists a specific ban on such items under German Law.

[lvx35]

25. The point is its Ebay's call.

They can sell or not sell whatever they want, they are not a government entity.

[buddhamama]

38. well, thanks for stating the obvious

"They can sell or not sell whatever they want, they are not a government entity." :eyes:

i kinda thought your original post was about the music, and its being labeled "Hate Speech".
and my response to you addressed the arbitrary nature of a "No Hate Speech" policy.

[lvx35]

39. hehe. I really don' know enough to say regarding

Ebay's larger policy...I just didn't want to come across as screaming too loud about Ebay not selling Nazi stuff, lest I look bad! ;)

[buddhamama]

49. gotcha

it is a tricky subject, i'll admit. while i don't necessarily want to give "haters" a venue for their hate, i am concerned about censorship, especially if the censorship is directed toward one group and not another. Christian groups were the first to complain. there are quite a few neo-nazi groups with a religious bent, would their music be acceptable as long as the hate was not directed at Christians?! personally speaking, i would much rather know the haters and what they're saying than to pretend they don't exist.

[spoony]

47. Ebay and PayPal have plenty of arbitrary policies

All it does is give rise to new, specialized auction sites. In the end, it's good for everyone. Ebay doesn't have to sell what they don't want and people will set up a good auction site for what Ebay won't sell.

[zonkers]

5. Shame on Ebay. But there really is a bigtime gray area. Do they have

a master list of bands? Who decides? The legion of decency? Surreal.

[Divine Discontent]

8. true...

unless it advocates violence or discrimination they shouldn't ban it from sales. And, I say from THEIR site, because they can determine what gets sold in connection with their name. I would hope that they're not just yanking things because the band has words discussing satanism and how they like it, even if I don't agree with it, that'd be wrong.

[zonkers]

15. And lets face it, the bands will wear it like a badge of honor. Everybody

wins. Fire and brimstone christians get a BS cause to get their blood going when if they really should be doing nice things like spending their time helping orphans and running soup kitchens... the metal bands can pretend they're total fringe rebels when they are in fact almost as cookie cutter as the Christians. Ebay could care less they have so much dough. Think I'll go put on the newest Dylan Cd. Haven't heard it yet and everywhere I go, someone talks about it.

[Divine Discontent]

24. sounds like the best idea... lol loved the cookie cutter comment n/t

[alittlelark]

7. I cruise EBay often - MANY of their postings have

the fish, 'Support the troops (let them die on foreign soil)' logos and their ilk. They are likely part of the Cheney 'ebay' economy.


It is sad. I may not be into much metal music (OK, Metallica still has a bit of appeal from my youth)... but Censoring it from a massive sales site just seems WAY WRONG.

[KyndCulture]

9. Guys guys don't get spun up. This is SOP for ebay.

among the titles banned are:
BURZUM - Complete 6 LP SET
EMPEROR - IX Equilibrium ORIG. LP
WOTANORDEN - From The.. CD
BURZUM - s/t / Aske DOUBLE LP
1349 - Beyond The CD
DARKTHRONE - Panzerfaust CD
MAYHEM - Collection 4 LP SET
PANTHEON - Krihapentswor CD
DARKTHRONE - Total Death CD
BURZUM - Draugen CD DVD
BURZUM - Daudi Baldrs LP
BURZUM - Daudi Baldrs CD
ZYKLON B - Blood Must Be Shed CD
ARMAGGEDON - Imperium CD
EMPEROR - Demo LP
1349 - Hellfire DOUBLE LP
DARKTHRONE - Hate Them CD
BURZUM - Filosofem DOUBLE LP
BURZUM - Hlidskjalf LP
BURZUM - Det Som Engang Var DIGI CD
CAMULOS / AINSHVAL - Split CD
BURZUM - Hvis Lyset Tar Oss LP
BURZUM - Det Som Engang Var LP
NOKTURNAL MORTUM - Weltanschauung CD
SATYRICON - Now, Diabolical CD




I am a long time seller and I have had an anti bush shirt or 2 pulled because of their so called hate speech rule. I frequentyly say I hate him on design... cause well, I do.

You can say you HATE a duck in a crayon drawing and try to sell it and if an ebay monitor decides it hits the hate speech rule, so long duck.


I ain't sayin it's right, I'm just saying this is aboslutely nothing new.

[smtpgirl]

11. Another artist eBay would never sell, too obscure

Root Boy Slim, that man was GOD, he lived in Takoma Park, MD.

Saw him at many venues in the DC area in the early '80's




His best songs

Christmas at K-Mart
Liquor store Hold up in Space
Dare To Be Fat

That dude rocked!!!!

The Psyche Delly, Bethesda, MD

Shout out to Steve & Tim!!

[immoderate]

30. Hey, you forgot "Boogie Till You Puke!"

And my Root Boy favorite, "I'm Not Too Old For You"

Root Boy Slim and the Sex Change Band was a performance I'll never forget. BTW, they were good musicians.


--IMM

[MyshkinCommaPrince]

12. Only metal?

Could I still get the Damned or Christian Death or whatnot? Or Bicycle Face. They had a song called, "I'm the Devil (And You're Not)"....

Crazy world.... :crazy:

[Stephanie]

13. Christian music is discriminatory towards athiests

Can I sue?

[China_cat]

18. Christian music is discriminatory towards anyone with eardrums.

And taste.

[Bluebear]

14. Someone needs to start FreeBay (tm) then.

Uncensored sales.

[alittlelark]

29. Craigslist - the local equivalent to EBay

But then, the Ebay main campus is 4 miles from me....

Anyway - Craigslist rocks! we have sold a car, adopted out foster kittens, bought a freezer, found a delta faucet (circa 1950's) part, bought a cool jazz print...

A great resource!

http://www.craigslist.org/about/cities.html

[shadowknows69]

17. Its not hate speech

for the fundies to continually tell the rest of us we're going to burn in hell?

[buddhamama]

19. my thought exactly

this is f'ing bullshit.

[blogslut]

21. Here's some info

...on some bands that are claimed to promote hate and white power:

http://www.tolerance.org/news/article_hate.jsp?id=403

[michael_1166]

22. Then the sellers of Black Metal should

just use the same trick like the sellers of BDSM gear (whips, collars, cuffs, ...). Here in Europe, they just declare their goods "theater prop", and everyone's happy with that.

I could very well imagine hypothetical theater plays about record shops selling black metal! ;)

[brentspeak]

23. But ebay will continue to allow counterfeit goods to be sold

At least 90% of the computer cand digital memory cards hawked on ebay are counterfeit. Even the majority of razor blades are fake, too (I recently won blades from ebay that turned out to be phony). So far, ebay refuses to acknowledge what a huge problem the counterfeiting schemes are.

[Greeby]

26. Most extreme metal vocals these days

Sounds like a pitbull choking on a beehive. Noone can figure out what they're "singing" anyway. :eyes:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

28. Why Post A Damning Opinion That Was Rooted Deeply In Admitted Ignorance?

If you aren't even familiar with the bands and are criticizing the policy out of self admitted sheer ignorance to the context, then why not have taken 2 minutes to educate yourself on whether or not the bands were in fact promoting hate speech? Why condemn prior to educating yourself? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Seek to be educated first, then forge opinion. That is what leads to responsible assessment.

And for the record, those albums are hate speech. I can understand completely why Ebay would ban such items from sale and don't have any problem whatsoever with them doing so.

[rman]

32. Oh good,

mister know-it-all is here to educate all of us.

[Moochy]

33. And Cheer For A Ban On Art

Yay For Censorship. Hey Do We See A Pattern Yet? And No I Don't Like Black Metal I'm More Partial To The Slick Chrome Of UK Garage.

On Edit: Used More Capital Letters!

[Blackthorn]

34. You know...

The first paragraph of your post if the perfect response for your second.

I listen to 1349, Satyricon, Mayhem, Zyklon B (who have since changed their name to simply Zyklon), Emperor and Burzum. Not one of those bands, on any recording I have ever heard openly promote anything that could be described as genuine "hate speech".

Ebay says: "eBay doesn't permit sellers to list items that promote or glorify hatred, violence, or racial intolerance."

If simply writing lyrics about the above topics qualifies as "hate speech" then I'd expect to see a large proportion of music in general banned. How many rap groups sing about shooting cops. How many country songs have threats of violence against some guy who was plowing the songwriters woman.

This is pandering to the chrisian right, plain and simple. It is far too complicated to draw a line between an artists personal beliefs expressed in interviews and hearsay and the creative material that they release as a recoding entity. Instead, we label all Burzum 'racist' because Christian Vikernes was a dickhead.

I mean, Hitler liked Rikard Wagner and knew him socially, do we automatically assume Wagner's music promotes anti-semitism?

[spoony]

48. Because it's more fun to be angry at the KKKristians!

:sarcasm:

[judaspriestess]

35. oh geesus

black or death metal usually talks about sacrifices, death, mayhem. But most of the time you can't even understand what they are saying. Its actually kinda funny, odd as it may sound.

But black metal also talks alot about the destruction of war and they usually speak out against these regimes in power and how they are doing the devils work. This is what I suspect they(christians from hell) are talking about.

fuckitty fuck fuck triple fuck is right!! Lame!!!

[Swamp Rat]

36. "This art is hate speech" folks are two-dimensional, tiny-brained turds

who should stay at home and smell their own farts. :D

I hope none show up here and embarrass themselves. :rofl:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

[wicket]

42. "who should stay at home and smell their own farts."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[aikoaiko]

37. First, they banned lawful gun transactions, and then music, what next? nt

[NYCGirl]

40. I just checked by entering "Darkthrone" — 117 HITS! Doesn't look like

the "ban" lasted a long time.

[izzybeans]

41. Why does Ebay hate the Cookie Monster? He fronts 100's of doom

and black metal bands. The cookie monster is the most prolific songwriter since the screeching cat of the 70s.

[negativenihil]

44. I think in protest...

I shall play emperor at work twice as loud as usual :P

seriously though, this is bullshit. Look - yes i understand members of Emperor and Mayhem as well as some core members of the scene in norway did infact burn down some historical christian churches. there is NO dancing around this fact. I wish i could defend these actions, but i simply cannot (if anyone is interested in a very un-baised look at these events i urge you to view "Metal: A Headbanger's Journey" - it's got a fantastic section on these events).

To the OP - in my experiences, Nazi themes are not common in black metal (at least with the groups i know of). Black metal is generally about satan and all things satanic. There are many branches from the black metal tree including viking metal and blackened death metal (there are many more, these are just 2 examples). Viking metal tends to be mostly about viking gods and taking over far away lands - viking stuff (see Enslaved for an example). Blackened Death Metal is the bastard child of black metal and death metal and usually seems to incorprorate death metal style lyics (about well death, and carnage and gore) with black metal style muisc - you may find some refrences to satan in the mix but hey - it's metal! :D

in anycase - i'm not trying to claim there is no nazi themed black metal out there, i've just never been exposed to it (and trust me on this - i've been exposed to *lots* of metal....)

[true_notes]

45. Fuck!

I wonder if Viking Metal was in on the ban?

Amon Amarth
Satyricon and such.

I sure hope not!

[BlooInBloo]

46. Yet another example of how downtrodden christians are...

... in this country.

i TOTALLY understand their incessant whining here on DU about people saying mean things about their religion - they just can't catch a break *anywhere*!

[sweetheart]

50. google will eat ebay...

wordperfect, wordstar, multimate, addressograph, western union,
all the market leaders in their fields... one time wonders like ebay.

[buddhamama]

51. you think...

maybe. :hi:

[Zomby Woof]

52. Black metal is NOT hate speech

And I know the genre well.

It is evidence that Ebay is being stupid and weak to let the Christ-insane bully them into submission.