Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Six Reasons Why Amnesty Intern. Was RIGHT! This Is The American Gulag!

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 10:39 AM
Original message
Six Reasons Why Amnesty Intern. Was RIGHT! This Is The American Gulag!
Edited on Sun Sep-24-06 10:43 AM by leftchick
Dammit! READ THIS SENATOR REID AND LEVIN AND ALL THE REST OF YOU APPEASERS......

Six Questions on the American “Gulag” for Historian Kate Brown


http://harpers.org/sb-six-questions-kate-brown-1158926209.html

1. In 2005, Amnesty International charged that the treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo makes the prison “the Gulag of our times.” After public outcry and a media attack, Amnesty retracted the charge. Is the metaphor appropriate?

Soviet arrests were designed to inspire terror. Some people were taken off the street. Others were surprised in their beds in late night roundups. In Soviet prisons, detainees were stripped, searched, and led into special rooms where they were told to face the wall and assume stress positions. Most people were rounded up with no real evidence and without prior investigation. Interrogators withheld food, water, medical assistance, communication with relatives, and sleep until detainees agreed to talk. The most resistant detainees were beaten while handcuffed or tied.

Granted such liberty in dealing with prisoners, some Soviet officers started to enjoy themselves. They made up games, forcing prisoners to dance, smearing glue on their heads, stripping them naked, pouring frigid water over them. Sometimes guards had too much fun and a prisoner died. Then prison-appointed doctors, who often participated in the interrogations, wrote up fictive autopsy reports. Declassified FBI and U.S. Army detailing abuses detainees in U.S. detention centers uncannily echo Soviet NKVD reports. They recount late-night roundups of civilians and describe prisoners held in chambers of extreme heat or cold, chained naked to the floor without food and water for days on end, defecating on themselves, beaten (some to death), forced to dance, to lick their shoes and body parts, to crawl around, and to bark like dogs. American doctors and psychiatrists helped devise methods of inflicting pain and fear to elicit confessions, and they signed false reports when detainees died in custody.

2. Didn't the Soviets lock up far greater numbers of people than are now being detained by the United States?

Indeed, American editorialists grounded their rejection of the Gulag metaphor in numbers. Soviet officials routed millions through the Gulag over several decades (3.7 million according to archival records). In the American case, we are talking about a mere 500 prisoners in Guantanamo, and roughly 30,000 in U.S. detention centers in Iraq. Human Rights Watch estimates that 50,000 people are currently held in domestic prisons without charges. It is undoubtedly true that the torture of tens of thousands is better than the torture of millions. But this defense becomes rather weak, not only if one believes in universal civil liberties and human rights, but also if one considers history. The methods of detention and interrogation used by investigators in Iraq and Cuba derive from CIA manuals issued in 1963 that assumed that the detainee would not be a Muslim extremist but a Soviet agent. The methods practiced and propagated during the Cold War have migrated to the “war on terror” so seamlessly that American soldiers photographed their human-rights violations and shared the photos with no idea they were incriminating themselves.

<snip>

5. Have American government officials been more willing to take responsibility for abuses than their Soviet counterparts?

Long after the abuses were made public, Vice President Dick Cheney denied any mistreatment of detainees at Guantánamo. He said that the detainees “have been well treated, treated humanely and decently,” adding, “Occasionally there are allegations of mistreatment, but if you trace those back, in nearly every case, it turns out to come from somebody who had been inside and released to their home country and now are peddling lies about how they were treated.” With his bald-faced denial of torture, Cheney illustrated how Guantánamo shares aspects of the Gulag. His performance mimicked that of the famed Soviet writer Maxim Gorky, who several months after smiling broadly for a photo in front of the notorious Solovetsky Labor Camp, lied with sanctimony when refuting reports of Soviet camp abuses. In an article published in Pravda on March 5, 1931, Gorky wrote that “convict labor” was “a petty, foul slander” aimed at economically isolating and weakening the USSR. “The Soviet regime,” Gorky said, “does not employ convict labor even in prisons.”

When a state goes to the trouble of sanctioning the torture of civilians for purposes of political control, government officials do not willingly own up to these practices. And those who expose abuse are discredited as slanderers, and accused of “peddling lies” and ultimately of abetting the enemy.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sapphire Blue mentioned sending essays and articles on torture
to Congress, along with any letters or emails.

Maybe a compilation of essays and articles telling exactly what is at stake? I've been bookmarking and saving to insert in another round of emails going out this evening.

Asking (begging) them to read and to not support that which there is no coming back from

This isn't just any vote. This is the content of the American character...either we are war criminals or we are not.





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I will try too Solly
but I am really losing hope after reading shit like this....

<snip>

Levin said he would also try to change a provision in the agreement that would deny detainees a right to challenge their captivity in court. Yet if these changes aren't made to the final bill, it's unclear whether Democrats would support the bill. With the midterm elections only about six weeks away, Democrats may eventually support the bill even if they have reservations rather than be called obstructionist and weak on terrorism.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060922/22detainees.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I still have some hope. I hate admitting that. I feel like a fool
I hate thinking I'm so desperate to believe in good that even when there is no hope left, I still cling.

I believe in people. I just don't believe in America anymore. But I want to...I need to

How pathetic is that?

I hate myself for needing my government to do the right thing...I hate myself because my government has shown me all too clearly that doing what's right isn't what the government is about.

We sell kids a big lie.(and not just kids)

We tell them truth and honesty matters
We tell them America is built on ideas of liberty and justice for all

All a lie

Just one big lie

This is my breaking point. This is the straw that breaks the camel's back

I can't support torture. I can't support those who do.

I can't lie to myself and pretend you can support torture one day and somehow gain your honor back the next.

A Congress that votes to allow torture is NOT a Congress that will hold Bush accountable.

The guilty don't tend to hold the guilty accountable.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Another good article from today.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/22/AR2006092201303.html

Are We Really So Fearful?

By Ariel Dorfman
Sunday, September 24, 2006; Page B01

DURHAM, N.C.

snip>>

It still haunts me, the first time -- it was in Chile, in October of 1973 -- that I met someone who had been tortured. To save my life, I had sought refuge in the Argentine Embassy some weeks after the coup that had toppled the democratically elected government of Salvador Allende, a government for which I had worked. And then, suddenly, one afternoon, there he was. A large-boned man, gaunt and yet strangely flabby, with eyes like a child, eyes that could not stop blinking and a body that could not stop shivering.

snip>>

Can't the United States see that when we allow someone to be tortured by our agents, it is not only the victim and the perpetrator who are corrupted, not only the "intelligence" that is contaminated, but also everyone who looked away and said they did not know, everyone who consented tacitly to that outrage so they could sleep a little safer at night, all the citizens who did not march in the streets by the millions to demand the resignation of whoever suggested, even whispered, that torture is inevitable in our day and age, that we must embrace its darkness?

Are we so morally sick, so deaf and dumb and blind, that we do not understand this? Are we so fearful, so in love with our own security and steeped in our own pain, that we are really willing to let people be tortured in the name of America? Have we so lost our bearings that we do not realize that each of us could be that hapless Argentine who sat under the Santiago sun, so possessed by the evil done to him that he could not stop shivering?



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. That is a great article!!!! And needs to be seen everywhere

We've been discussing the issue here...more articles too..to consider
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2204580
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Thanks I missed the earlier thread! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. number four, targeting the poor....
4. The Bush Administration is targeting non-citizens it accuses of being terrorists. Didn't the Soviets mostly imprison and abuse their own citizens? So isn't it true that, in the American case, the “gulag” is a response to a real or perceived national security threat, while the Soviets were simply seeking to crush dissent?

During the Cold War the idea arose that the Gulag was primarily an instrument of terror to crush dissent. But declassified Soviet documents do not bear this out. By far, most of the people who landed in the Gulag were there for garden-variety offenses: theft of property, assault, hooliganism, and white-collar crime. They were not influential intellectuals who posed a threat to the regime, but poor, uneducated, and culturally marginalized peasants who broke draconian laws in order to make a living. The search for terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan has also targeted the weak and vulnerable. United States Army officials admit that 90 percent of the civilians detained in Iraq were later released without charges. The dragnet in Afghanistan also seems to have netted civilians who were in the wrong place at the wrong time. The detention of people who turn out to be innocent bystanders gives a new definition to the phrase “non-combatants.”

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. K & R.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. kicking for the dead
and tortured
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. The only reason Bush wants to use torture so badly
is because he enjoys it so much. It's probably the only thing that makes him smile anymore.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. That's the most disturbing part
Edited on Sun Sep-24-06 06:21 PM by Canuckistanian
Shrub is fighting tooth and nail to be able to torture people.

Despite the fact that torture is notoriously unreliable.

Despite the fact that torture is abhorrent to most people, therefore politically dangerous.

Despite the fact that the world is condemning America for it.

So, there must be only one reason he's pushing it.

He enjoys it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
12. kick!
good post
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC