Let's argue about stuff that matters.

[LWolf]

Poll question: Let's argue about stuff that matters.

There are so many issues to tackle; let's leave the "event" of the moment, day, or week behind, roll up our sleeves, and talk about the things that really matter. What should we fill the front pages of DU with?

[MrModerate]

1. This poll proves that Democrats . . .

Have no ideas and can only agree on hating Bush.

Oh, and hate 'Murrica and love terr'ists too.

[SeattleGirl]

2. LOL!

:spank:

Now, get to work, dang it! :P

[JackRiddler]

9. Correct. This poll makes a mockery of the Democrats

Since Democrats - present company excluded but certainly including the ones actually running the party and MOST of those standing for office in this year's elections - do not actually raise most of these issues.

They are silent on the fixing of elections by electronic and other means, which has cost the presidency in 2000 and 2004, and is tantamount to a deathwish in 2006.

Almost none of them are talking about single-payer health care, publicly financed elections, sustainable energy (and then mainly about the illusory joke of ethanol), or most of what the poll mentions.

Thus this poll highlights once again how this party is refusing to be an opposition and refusing to present coherent, supportable, clear alternatives to the Republican massacre of the constitution, freedom, justice and prosperity - instead playing the usual losing strategy that also ropes in progressives into never admitting what they are actually for, since they have to be "moderate" to win (and thus into pursuing a deceptive strategy, quite unlike the right wing, who have become very open about their desire for theocracy, empire and police state).

[MrModerate]

44. Pretty broad brush you're wielding there . . .

Many of these issues are raised across the spectrum of Dems running for office, in leadership postions, or not in the '06 cycle. Most of them have been stifled by Republican hegemony in Washington and (not incidentally) an excess of Republican secretaries of state who have actively colluded in vote fraud.

Are Dems as bold and courageous as many of us might want? Are they spineless quislings quaking in their boots? No to both. What they are ("they" here being officeholders or aspirants to office) is a big-tent collection of people who want to win 6 weeks from now, and who realize that the way to address these issues is to win the power to do so. Which means courting voters, not screaming in their ears.

Are we screwed by Diebold already? Are the results precooked? I don't honestly know -- but there is a LOT of agitation about the proprietary and defective electronic voting systems that have been favored since 2000 (even from Republicans who don't believe their party has successfully installed a 1000-year reich here, and consequently expect to be in the minority again someday), and verifiable systems are being developed and will be put in place -- soon I hope.

Otherwise we're looking at collapse of the electoral system and civil war. Even the rightest of wingnuts don't want that.

[JackRiddler]

46. Show me.

Never mind the generalizations, who is "painting with a broad brush" or the like. I can't prove the negative - that Democrats (leadership and federal candidates) are NOT talking about these things. But you can prove the positive by citing specific examples (not generalizations), so I invite you to do so.

Show me candidates who are talking about any of these things, especially ones who are fore-fronting these as election issues.

I can see what the candidates are pushing in New York, city and state. It does not include any of the issues listed in this poll, except at most the vaguely worded "end of war, moving toward peace and int'l diplomacy" (although the actual plans of the likes of Clinton amount to "Screwing Iraq: Stage 2") and yes, a different education policy on the part of Spitzer (with no statement however about ending mandatory testing).

It certainly includes nothing about paper ballots, even as the state is now moving to implement paperless machines, with nary a peep from the Democratic leadership or candidates.

Many people associate Democratic candidates with such issues, but I see no evidence that is the case other than wishful thinking. Thus the choices suggested by the OP are highly misleading, in that they suggest this is what Democrats (again: leadership & federal candidates) stand for.

Prove me wrong. Show me.

[LWolf]

49. It's the Catch-22.

Conventional wisdom has it that real issues of concern to the masses can't be addressed until Dems win a majority, and that Dems can't "win" if they talk about those issues. The Democrats actually doing what I want Democratic reps to do are patronized as "unelectable." Which, of course, leads to the election of people who didn't campaign on those issues, and who don't have those issues on their agenda. It's a circular lose-lose.

I believe that there are Democrats out there working on some of these real issues. I hope Mr. Moderate responds, because if he can highlight some great efforts on the part of our Democrats, I'll be happy to throw my support their way!

[JackRiddler]

50. Well, it's the guaranteed screw...

I've been watching this logic, which amounts to
1) not saying what you want or
2) pretending others who are not saying what you want actually want what you want and would say it, if only they could
lose elections for the Democrats consistently since 1980 - to the point where even when a majority hates the Republican president, Democrats are anything but a lock. Because they are perceived as either standing for nothing, or else as standing for things they don't actually stand for. And no consistent critique of the system and what's needed for change is ever developed.

[hootinholler]

3. Right now?

Torture. Until it's either defeated or signed.

-Hoot

[LWolf]

4. Great issue to tackle.

What is the single action that individual citizens can do at this time that will carry the most weight, get the most response?

[hootinholler]

5. As I suggest in that thread...

Fax images of detainees to Senators.

Demand a filibuster.

Did you read the thread?

-Hoot

[LWolf]

17. Yes.

I think it's a great idea to fax images to Senators and demand a filibuster.

Here's a little map that will pop up fax numbers quickly and easily:

http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/

Where is the best source of photos to send?

Just googling torture images gives plenty of Abu Ghraib photos.

The ACLU will need snail mail and phone calls; I can't find a fax number, but I found this:

1400 20th St NW Suite 119
Washington, DC 20036-5920
[phone]

[razors edge]

6. Foreign intervention in american policy.

[Gabi Hayes]

7. great idea! here's your assignment:

give us a report on all the things Sun Myung Moon has done to poison the political well of this country, starting with the MILLIONS upon millions he's given to the repuglicans, including hundred of thousands (if not millions) he's given to the Bush Crime Family

go get em, pardner!

[Swamp Rat]

11. I'll be expecting DiktatrW's comprehensive report to be turned in tomorrow

morning. He can start a thread that contains all the evidence showing the collusion between the GOP and shadowy foreign figures like Sun Myung Moon.

DUers will be waiting! Good luck DiktatrW!

:)

[Gabi Hayes]

14. don't be holding your breath, you! and thanks for another

addition to the swamprat collection!

[razors edge]

16. ten minutes on wiki

is more than anyone needs to know, if they didn't already, another religious whack job who conned people out of millions but unfortunately has not yet ended his enlightened path, in a solitary fashion, in a manner similar to the Reverend jim jones.

Millions of dollars given to the bush crime family and favors received, yet I did not see on wiki the one thing I remember him for most, some sort of ceremony in our congress or senate where he was crowned.

you can breath now and if you would like a more in depth analysis of this POS from my perspective just ask. I feel it a waste of time since you apparently are more familiar and fixated on this individual than I, since I don't see his involvement crossing party lines very far.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon

just in case you need it.

[razors edge]

20. I'm sure moon is an important figure for poppy,

but junior is into diversification.

saudi

israeli

falwell

robertson

enron

the list is too damn long...

[razors edge]

15. OK, and here is your's

Give us a report on all the wonderful things unquestioned financial support of Israel has brought this country. Starting with the Billions upon Billions we have given only to see returned in political contributions through AIPAC to both parties.

[Gabi Hayes]

24. no prob:

Mearshimer/Walt, with comments by various interested parties, including lots of RW liars:


http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html

Dershowitz answers
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n08/letters.html

they answer
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n09/letters.html

http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/29575


http://salon.com/opinion/feature/2006/04/18/taboo/index_np.html

http://www.juancole.com/2006/04/salon.html


BTW, if your original intent was to look into this aspect of foreign influence on US policy, I apologize for my reaction.....thought it was going to be along the lines of a one world, tinhatter screed.

sorry

[razors edge]

25. no screed

no agenda, just a concerned american watching what looks to be the demise of a once great nation.

appearances of a leadership no longer concerned about america first.

will check your links, ;-)

edit spelling

[skids]

8. Ehem -- the 2006 Majority Chairmanship Elections? n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

10. Add to that: The Bill of Rights. Reproductive Choice. End-of-life Choice.

Stem cell research. Separation of Church and State. End the Iraq War. End the Drug War, stop dragging cancer ridden grannies off to jail, legalize, regulate and tax marijuana. Stop letting Jesus-drunk end timers at the FDA make sweeping medical decisions for millions of American women. Bring the Military-Industrial Complex Budget down to something sane. Audit all the no-bid bonanzas which have been given away in the past 6 years, get some fiscal fucking responsibility back in our government.

[LWolf]

19. I'm with you on ALL of those.

Isn't it a wonderful thing, when we start looking at what we can all agree on, how many things we can work on together?

I think that the election and media issues, addressed first, would open the door for us to dive in on everything else.

[Warren DeMontague]

27. Oh, I agree completely.

Without a real media and fairness in elections, we'll get nowhere fast.

[Swamp Rat]

12. All of the above.

:kick:

[liberal N proud]

13. You see that is the problem, We liberals have many issues

While the republicans can only concentrate on one issue at a time. It is all their little brains can process, one issue per election.
They have no comprehension that there are other things out there other then the fear they have been filled with by the bu$h regime and the complacent media.

[LWolf]

18. I think it would be good

if we could agree on just a few really big issues to work on, moving on to others as we can.

If I had to choose just a few, it would first be the issue of clean, fair, elections with accurate vote counts.

Then it would be the fairness doctrine, or re-regulation of media to keep just a few mega-corporations from controlling the airwaves, and a broader perspective of viewpoints on air; something to rein in the propaganda machine.

Then the universal, single-payer, not-for-profit health care.

Just those 3; the first 2 give us a chance to influence the direction our nation goes in, and the 3rd gives everyone a better chance to join the whole process.

[kiahzero]

21. What are we going to talk about on those issues?

Yes, they're important, but what discussions would we actually have?

[LWolf]

26. These things:

1. What Democrats currently in office, and currently campaigning/running for office, have a strong record supporting those issues. How to best support those reps who are putting the issues we want addressed out front under everyone's nose.

2. How to communicate strongly to those Democrats who are not focused on these issues that this is where we want their focus to be.

3. How to get the message to the average Republican voter, so that it's not a partisan issue, but an issue that affects everyone equally, and get them talking to their reps, too.

4. How to make these issues THE conversation everytime we turn on the tv, the radio, log on, or meet at the water cooler. We could start by making them THE conversation for most of the posts at DU. It would start us off "being" the change we want to see.

[yurbud]

22. how about how business, especially big oil, dictates our foreign policy?

[LWolf]

37. Yes.

How do we get corporate influence out of the government?

Make all elections 100% publicly funded?

Ban all donations of any kind, for any reason?

The point would be to make elected officials accountable to voters, not to organizations of any kind.

[yurbud]

38. or the next time we have war crime trials, get the big dogs at Nuremberg..

Nazis got death.

The industrialists who backed them got parking tickets.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Replacing the system that allows the powerful to run things.

That should cover most of the things you mention.

[BlooInBloo]

28. That doesn't make ANY sense!

By DEFINITION, *whoever* runs things is "powerful". It's not possible, as a matter of language, to change that.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. I refer you to Lord Acton.

[BlooInBloo]

34. (shrug) That says all that needs to be said.

[opihimoimoi]

30. Careful there....3rd congress stuff is not very good.....might be twoubles

just saying....

I like to say Improve the system....safer...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Well, the current system is a bit troublesome.

The one that passes itself off as a democracy when, if fact, it is tool of the corporations that finance it.

I think the time has past when it was reformable.

[opihimoimoi]

35. I agree,,,,

[stillcool]

31. I chose paper ballots...

but as the ruling elite choke the life out of us with their firm grip on our education/health/finance/government/media/information and employment opportunities, along with tentacles that grasp every major industry...maybe straight to revolution?

[LWolf]

36. Yes, and that's one BIG debate;

how to accomplish that with a peaceful transfer of power, how to build something into a new system that resists and roots out corruption, how to keep all citizens represented....

DU could have been having that conversation all along; wouldn't it be great to see an on-going brainstorming/debate/planning session on the front page every time you logged on?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

32. How Bout Canvassing And G'ingOTV With As Much Furvor As Possible?

Number one issue to focus on right now is firing up the base to get out there and GOTV on election day so that we can undertake the monumentally important task of regaining control of congress.

[LWolf]

39. Okay; can you connect the dots?

Will applying fervor to GOTV, or winning back Congress, automatically make sure that all those issues become someone's priority? Or do we need to do more than put Democrats in office?

What do we do to make sure Democrats to act decisively on these issues?

I agree that the upcoming elections are important. Who is campaigning on these issues?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

45. First Things First.

I agree with all of the concepts within the poll, however I think the most vital issue right now is simply doing whatever it takes to win back control of congress. In the absence of that, all of the other issues in the OP are moot.

[LWolf]

47. Catch 22.

I agree that we have to regain a majority in Congress to get things done. Can you list all the Democratic reps who will actually put those issues at the top of their priority list when that happens? Who is campaigning on these issues? Who is bringing them up on the floor of the house/senate or in press releases and interviews? Some of them must be. I'd like to turn the spotlight on those Democrats.

[buddhamama]

40. torture is the "event" of the moment and for a good reason

This Bill will stand as a symbol of who we are as a People, a Country. I can't imagine the majority of People caring to do anything about your list of issues, if they don't give a damn about humanity in general.

[LWolf]

43. Down to the core:

Does our culture nurture empathy? Do we care about anything but ourselves, about "winning" our competition with every other person, with every other living thing, nation, or element on the planet?

If not, why not? How do we change that? Is that a change most of us would like to see?

Big questions here. If the nation were not complicit, could the current thugs in office get away with what they are doing?

Another big question: How much further can we go until the world unites to utterly destroy the culture that grows such atrocities?

Those are the thoughts and questions the current torture issue raises for me.

[theHandpuppet]

41. Or we could fill up the front page with more polls

:eyes:

[LWolf]

42. We could.

I don't think it really matters if the thread is a poll or not. We could overload the front page with posts about Clinton, Chavez, Faux news, what some hated or revered talking head had to say this morning, etc., and leave the issues behind somewhere in the dust, to be resurrected "someday" when "Democrats are in power." And hope those Democrats remember that these are issues.

Or we could remember the whole point of "winning:" issues. What issues would you like to see on the front page?

[NoBushSpokenHere]

48. kick n/t