Mel Gibson criticizes Iraq War, says civilization is going under

[Herman Munster]

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=entertainmentNews&storyid=2006-09-25T031220Z_01_N24227883_RTRUKOC_0_US-GIBSON.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

Mel Gibson has returned to the spotlight to promote his upcoming movie "Apocalypto," and to criticize the war in Iraq, according to the Hollywood Reporter.

Almost two months after he railed against Jews when he was arrested for driving drunk in Malibu, the actor made a surprise appearance Friday at Fantastic Fest, an event in Austin, Texas, devoted to new science fiction, horror and fantasy films, the trade paper said in its Monday edition.

He presented a work-in-progress screening of his Mayan adventure tale, and then took questions. About one-third of the full house gathered for the film gave him a standing ovation. The film is scheduled for a December 8 release via Disney.

In describing its portrait of a civilization in decline, Gibson said, "The precursors to a civilization that's going under are the same, time and time again," drawing parallels between the Mayan civilization on the brink of collapse and America's present situation. "What's human sacrifice," he asked, "if not sending guys off to Iraq for no reason?"

[JeffR]

1. Hmm

did he blame the war on the **** Jews?

[Nikki Stone 1]

3. He probably thinks Israel is behind the whole thing.

:evilgrin:

[geek tragedy]

25. There are people on this thread who would agree with him. eom

[brentspeak]

4. I don't see why Mel Gibson's entire life should be judged

because of a drunken rant during a DUI stop. I'd just let it go.

[Herman Munster]

5. it's interesting he would say this

his coming out against the iraq war isn't going to win him many brownie points among his fundie base.

[Skittles]

8. no

that bastard turned his anti-Semitism into a major motion picture; he deserves all he gets

[WCGreen]

9. I agree....

Let his bloody movies speak for him....

[MannyGoldstein]

13. He's A Chronic Antisemite

The Passion of the Christ was pretty obviously antisemitic. He picked a version of the Passion that was the "vision" of an antisemitic German nun, and spiffed it up to make the Jews look worse and the Romans look better. The only folks who were not in historical costumes were the Jews - they were made to look more like modern Jews. Think of it as Mad Mel's own little "Path to 9/11".

Mad Mel's antisemitic DWI spewfest just makes it obvious to many more people that The Passion was aimed (at least partially) at Jews. I suspect that The Passion may cause a lot of trouble a little ways down the line - I sure hope not.

[geek tragedy]

24. He sounded EXACTLY like his evil dad, who's a prominent

Holocaust-denying conspiracy lunatic on the far right.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geek tragedy]

23. Are you saying that the Jews are responsible for all of the wars?

If not, what the hell do you mean?

[patrice]

29. No, just that they are not blameless.

Is that PC enough for you?

Or do you prefer false dichotomies?

[geek tragedy]

31. What role have the Jews played in starting wars?

Please focus on wars where Israel isn't one of the main combatants.

I'm interested in hearing your opinion on this.

[patrice]

35. I won't do that.

Because I don't think it is that simple.

Besides, it depends upon what your definition of "start" is and we likely disagree on that.

It's like having two kids going at it in the back seat, except in more deadly terms than just picking on one another. What's going on is a product of who and what each is dating from the day each entered the world. Culpability may vary depending on the situation, but it is always shared.

[geek tragedy]

36. I asked you a very nuanced question. What role have the Jews p

played in starting wars?

And, what do you mean by 'start?' Why do you assume I mean something different?

How about this--what are some examples of wars that the Jews played a primary role in starting, in whatever way you interpret 'start?'

[The Magistrate]

37. Clarification Of Your Comment In No. 29, Mr. Patrice, Would Be Appreciated

Gibson, who is without doubt a dyed in the wool Jew-hater, stated that Jews started all wars. He was not refering to incidents in the present conflcit between Israel and Arab Palestine: he was refering to the sum total of wars in the twentieth and nineteenth centuries. In this context, Sir, what you mean by "they are not blameless" interests me greatly.

Editted to remove quote from a deleted post.

[patrice]

38. False dichotomies: Everything about any complex phenomenon is

reduced and over-simplified, usually into 2 so-called facts, or perspectives, or axioms or whatever, that are then **assumed** to be mutually exclusive. An obvious example "You're either for us or against us." "You're either one of the 'good' guys or one of the 'bad' guys."

Another example: "If you have anything even the slightest negative to say about Israel, you hate Israel." Of course, in some quarters another example would be: "If you have anything even the slightest negative to say about Palestine, you hate Palestine (and by extension Islam)." As if a positive regard and the ability to see the negative characteristics of anything are mutually exclusive, i.e. the assumption is that you can't have BOTH a positive regard + honest objectivity that sees the flaws in __________ at the same time. Or the assumption is that you can't have BOTH a negative regard + honest objectivity that sees the virtues in ____________ at the same time.

Besides the fact that thinking this way assumes that language is absolutely concrete and there is absolutely no difference between our words and what those words refer to (i.e. no difference between words and the physical world), it is also either a lie or a fundamental error. The human mind functions constantly with all kinds of contradictions, because things REALLY are good and bad, hard and soft, positive and negative, friendly and hostile, big and small, true and false, X and Y . . . . ALL OF THE TIME.

Some people know this, but ignore it on purpose, or outright lie about it for reasons of their own. Engaging in false dichotomies and inflicting them on others creates "self-fulfilling prophecies".

Self-fulfilling prophecies are our expectations about who/what other people are. They work like this: If I assume people are either friends or enemies and you happen, for one reason or another, either from your own fault or because of circumstances, you happen to fall into the group that I call enemies, I treat you as an enemy. Because I treat you as an enemy, You react to being treated as an enemy in a manner that is consistent with how I've defined you. Because you are treated as an enemy, you act like an enemy. I see your "enemy" behavior and say to myself and others, "See I was right, this man is an enemy, his behavior is the behavior of an enemy" when I was the one who caused that behavior to begin with. You see this all of the time in mainstream media, on the internet, and in the world of politics. It is a dynamic that is used to disempower many, many millions of Americans. The cycle of expectations/prophecies and how they shape behavior builds and builds and builds, forcing people away from their many alternative and choices.

I personally don't like engaging in struggles over false dichotomies. I'm interested in other, more complex, things. Besides, everytime you accept something in terms that are defined by others, you've given them an essential piece of your humanity and taken another step closer to Slavery.

[The Magistrate]

39. That Is Not Clarification, Sir, But Obfuscation

You responded to a person contesting the idea that the Jews were to be blamed for all the world's wars, and your reply was that all you were saying was that they were not blameless.

Your reply has run to several hundred words, not one of which addresses that point. To say someone or something is "not blameless" is identical to saying they are to some degree in fact to blame, and it is that, Sir, that requires some clarification, in my view....

[geek tragedy]

20. Well, there's his radical rightwing views on most subjects, his

putrid homophobia, his blatant bigotry towards Jews (yeah, I'm sure that rant came out of thin air--given that his dad is a rightwing Holocaust-denying bigot himself) . . .

[MannyGoldstein]

14. All Wars

I believe that he blamed ALL wars on Jews. And he wasn't even very drunk.

[Gregorian]

17. That was just tipsy antisemitism.

Not the full on blind drunk kind.

Oh hell. I can't do anything right today. I really am pathetic. I don't think I should even try to joke about it. The whole damn thing is so serious, it just sucks.

Poor Mel. Racists just don't get the respect like the use to.


Good night world! Good night DU! God bless those who think and care and feel empathy.

[brentspeak]

18. You were there, and he wasn't very drunk?

Gee, why didn't you tell us!

:sarcasm:

[geek tragedy]

21. People say exactly what they mean when they're drunk.

Mel was too drunk to conceal his bigotry.

[riderinthestorm]

22. .012%. Not very drunk for a chronic alcoholic like Mel. nt

[MannyGoldstein]

26. Thank You

That was what I recalled. According to this blood alcohol calculator, this level will have you "Lightly drunk, feeling good, smiling". Mad Mel wasn't shifaced drunk and seeing visions - he was happily spilling his convictions to his newfound buddies.

[riderinthestorm]

27. .

:hi:

[Frazzled Educator]

30. Are you Jewish!?!?!?! Well, are you?

Yes, jackass, I am! You got a problem with that. . .I'll shove your head up your ass so you can see shit clearly, Mel!

[tenshi816]

40. Do you know what? When I first looked at

the photo in your post, I thought the one on the left was Mel Gibson. My bad.

[mykpart]

2. Maybe Joe Lieberman will come give him a kiss!

[AspenRose]

6. Mel who?

Did Felix Allen show up, by chance? :crazy: :dunce:

[Straight Shooter]

7. Well, he certainly makes a good point about human sacrifice.

Except that usually, with sacrifice, you're trying to appease a god, not a warmongering liar wrapped in the flag.

[hlthe2b]

10. Heavens, I surely don't want to defend anyone mentioned...

on this thread....They all may be the utter and complete assholes and incurable racists that some suggest...

On the otherhand, I know damned well I must have said some very intolerable and regrettable things when I was drinking, partying, going nuts--in college... If not for the fact that all around me were probably just as drunk, stoned, or whatever, I might well have words some back to haunt me. Now, I'm no racist, sexist, or whatever, but under the influence we do say things we don't mean, whether to shock, to hurt back, or who knows what reasons...


I may be as "lapsed" as they come, but somewhere the words "judge not lest ye be judged" come jumping back at me. I thought lib/progressives were the tolerant ones...:shrug:

[eviltwin2525]

11. Huh?

And, huh?

[Imagevision]

12. Mel with PR push should instruct gofers' to avoid Disney in same sentence

Since P2-9-11 the Disney name is taboo in this household...

[patrice]

19. Yep, there are letters turning up in the local paper saying how

P2 9/11 told it how it REALLY was.

[Zorra]

15. Tragedies and humbling experiences can lead a person to

question their values and make positive changes in their thinking and in their lives.

It's a good thing to see Mel Gibson questioning this war.

[sueh]

28. It says the movie is being released by Disney...

too bad, Mel, but DH and I will not be seeing this one.

[StellaBlue]

32. I saw Mel

at Sidebar on Red River in Austin Friday night at 2:30am.

[Neshanic]

33. First it was gays, but he's cool, then his pornographic Christ flick

you don't like it? There must be something wrong with you. He boozes it up with some bar flies at a Malibu watering hole, the pics look like he is having a good time. Oh yea, his wife is hell bound, he's said so.

Then he gets stopped and goes Anti-semite.

Then apologies all around, and a Disney movie deal to close, for his latest gore-fest, end-timers movie.

What part of fucking creep do people miss here?

[Imagevision]

34. Simplee, Disney will discover Gibson fallout from movie receipts from

Apocolyptico -- Even if you do see it, purchase your movie tickets for coinciding other movie rather then give Disney your money and approval.