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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 10:53 AM
Original message
544 Camp Street
{1} "The estimate concludes that the radical Islamic movement has expanded from a core of Qaeda operatives and affiliated groups to a new class of 'self-generating' cells inspired by Al Qaeda's leadership but without any direct connection to Osama bin Laden or his top lietenants."
-- Mark Mazzetti; Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Worsens Terror Threat; NY Times; 9-24-06

The reports about the increased threats caused by the Bush/Cheney invasion of Iraq expose the lies of the administration in significant ways. The National Intelligence Estimate that Mazzetti and others are reporting on "represents a consensus view of the 16 disparate spy services" of the federal government. This NIE, titled "Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States," notes that the war in Iraq is serving as a training ground for militants who may return to their countries of origin, thus "exacerbating domestic conflicts or formenting radical ideologies."

Mazzetti also reports that in recent months, a number of senior intelligence officers are using information from the NIE in public speeches. There are, of course, some who will demand that this report indicates that the country needs to follow the administration's policies in order to be safe. But there is a growing trend in which military and other intelligence officers are attempting to communicate a very different message to the American public.

An interesting example of this can be found in the book "Enemies," by Bill Gertz. The Washington Monthly has called Gertz "legendary among national security reporters" because of his unique access to US intelligence agencies. The book "Enemies" includes a number of previously unpublished classified documents, as well as interviews with senior intelligence officials, that examine the issue of espionage.

"Spying" isn't new in the United States. It has been an issue since the Revolutionary War. It isn't an issue that can be blamed entirely on the Bush-Cheney administration. But it is important to consider it in relationship to the NIE, and to consider how "self-generating" intelligence cells within the administration have put the nation at risk.


{2} "One U.S. official said the FBI had unconfirmed information that Mr. Feith supplied information to Israel in the 1980s. However, the officials declined to provide further information citing the ongoing investigation. It could not be learned whether arrests are expected in the case."
-- Bill Gertz; Pentagon aide draws scrutiny from FBI; The Washington Times; 8-28-04

In this 8-28-04 article, Bill Gertz was reporting on what has become known as the "neocon/AIPAC espionage scandal." The FBI was investigating a senior Pentagon official who was suspected of passing a draft presidential directive that concerned US policy towards Iran, to a couple people who were employed by a private group, who then passed it on to a foreign intelligence officer. Gertz noted that "the suspected mole works in the office of Douglas Feith, the undersecretary of defense for policy who is considered one of the top three officials in the Pentagon." The two men from AIPAC are presently waiting to go on trial for their role in coordinating the effort to pass highly classified information to the foreign intelligence agent.

On 8-31-04, The Boston Globe's Bryan Bender reported that there was a second probe of the Pentagon, relating to the "self-generating" intelligence cells that Feith oversaw. Bender noted that the "Senate Intelligence and House Judiciary Committee staff members say inquiries into the Near East and South Asia Affairs division have found preliminary evidence that some officials gathered questionable information on weapons of mass destruction from exiles such as Ahmed Chalabi without proper authorization, which helped build President Bush's case for an invasion last year. The investigators are also looking into a more serious concern: whether the office engaged in illegal activity by holding unauthorized meetings with foreign nationals to destabilize Syria and Iran....said one senior congressional investigator who has longtime experience in intelligence oversight."

The offices being investigated were run by William Luti, the former Navy captain who served as an adviser to Newt Gingrich when he was the Speaker of the House, and Douglas Feith. Luti, of course, was identified by Seymour Hersch in his classic 2003 New Yorker article as running "a separate intelligence unit .... in the Pentagon's policy office," which "stovepiped" intelligence to the Office of the Vice President. Luti's Office of Special Plans, as Joseph Wilson noted, short-circuited the established intelligence community. When we consider that Newt Gingrich himself has been identified as being one of the heads of the OVP/WHIG meetings that were aimed at doing a "work up" on Ambassador Wilson, the overlapping operations of these self-generating intelligence cells becomes apparent.

Bender identifies another intell-cell, the "now defunct Policy Counterterrorism Coordination Group," which was set up to identify the links between al Qaeda and state sponsors including, of course, Iraq. The neoconservatives claimed that the OSP and PCCG never gathered intelligence, but rather limited their efforts to reevaluating previous findings. But this was exposed as untrue when it was found that several Pentagon officials had held meetings with foreign intelligence agents, including Ahmed Chalabi, Manucher Ghorbanifar, and Imad el Hage.


{3} " 'People are concerned about covert action being conducted by a policy office with no legal mandate to do so,' said one Democratic official involved in the Judiciary Committee inquiry. 'If the Senate and House intelligence committees in their review only look at the Chalabi relationship but don't look at the office's role in what was in effect covert action to explore regime change in the entire arc of the Middle East, then their inquiry will be a joke'."
-- Bryan Bender; 2nd probe at Pentagon examines actions in Iraq; Boston Globe; 8-31-04

Larry Franklin, the Pentagon official who passed the intelligence reports to the AIPAC officials, who passed the information on to a foreign intelligence agent, was also involved in other illegal activities. Franklin and Harold Rhode met secretly with Ghorbanifar, the arms dealer from the Iran-Contra scandals, in Italy and France. Ghorbanifar has said the meetings were held to discuss efforts to destabilize Iran.

The second meeting was not authorized by the Pentagon. It reportedly involved discussions about an exchange of money between the US officials and Iranians, including Mujahedin-e Khalq. This group, which was advocating regime change in Iran, is recognized by the US State Department as a terrorist organization.

Bender reported that another Near East official, F. Michael Maloof, was being investigated for having engaged in back-channel efforts to destabilize Syria. Maloof was suspected of coordinating efforts with Lebanese-American weapons runner Imad el Hage, and with hard-line former Lebanese general Michel Aoun. Maloof's security clearance was reportedly stripped in 2003, when a handgun registered in his name was found in Hage's possession.

Two fascinating reports on "War and Piece: International News & Commentary" were posted by Laura Rozen on August 27 and 31, 2004. In the second one, she wrote, "What's at issue here? Two things: Whether these alleged Feith office back channels were authorized or not by the administration; and secondly, whether they were not just about intelligence gathering , but if they had aspirations to be operational."

Rozen makes reference to a 10-14-03 Knight Ridder article by Jonathan Landay and Warren Strobel that documented that Feith's office had requested that money be paid to Ghorbanifar. They quote a classified message from Harold Rhode, a Farsi-speaking official from the Pentagon's Office of Net Assessments, who wrote that he had "made contact with Iranian intelligence officers who anticipate possible regime change in Iran and want to establish contact with the United States government. ... A sizable financial interest is required ..."

Reportedly, when Colin Powell and George Tenet found out about this, they immediately complained to Donald Rumsfeld. Powell was told that deputy national security advisor Stephen Hadley had been informed, and had prohibited further contacts between the Pentagon cells and the Iranians. Still, Franklin and Rhode met secretly with the Iranian intelligence agent in Paris a few months later.


{4} "So far, the commentariat and blogosphere (both left and right sides) have been curiously quiet about the news that Pentagon official Larry Franklin was arrested for improperly passing classified information to AIPAC. Last summer, you may recall, there was quite a bit of analysis -- from colleagues I respect and admire -- downplaying this. Despite the arrest and gravity of the charges, the NY Sun is continuing to pooh-pooh Franklin's alleged actions. 'To us this sounds more like sandy Berger or John Deutch than it does, say, Jonathan Pollard,' The Sun says. Uh, really Both Berger and Deutch mishandled classified information -- but neither was accused of passing on that information to others, as Franklin allegedy did. There is, as they saw, a war going on. Franklin's alleged actions are scandalous. The apologists and apathetic are troubling."
-- Michelle Malkin; The National Security Scandal No One's Talking About; 5-5-05

It seems strange that the corporate media does not seem willing to cover the Franklin/AIPAC espionage scandal. Michael Isikoff and Mark Hosenball had covered it briefly in a Newsweek article "And Now a Mole?" But Isikoff and co-author David Corn make no mention of the scandal in their new book "Hubris." As I noted in a recent essay, the connections between the Plame and the Franklin/AIPAC pionage scandals are numerous, and include characters such as Elliot Abrams and David Wurmser.

On August 9, 2006, Judge Ellis ruled against the AIPAC defendants effort to have the case against them thrown out. Among the issues they raised was that the case posed a threat to a free press. I think it does, though in exactly the opposite reason than the one they cite. In an up-coming essay, I will focus on the significance of Ellis's recent ruling. But, for today, I think we could agree that the Bush administration has made the world a more dangerous place in two ways: first, by the invasion of Iraq, which has resulted in an increase of the self-generating extremists cells that threaten to disrupt countries beyond the Middle East; and second, by allowing the spread of self-generating intelligence cells within the executive branch, that threaten the very groups that are most capable of providing the intelligence analysis and operations that protect our country.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks for not letting this one go H2O *******SPIES*******
and for the background

Secrets: Classified Info: Springing a Leak
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x803017

Behind the AIPAC Probe, Neocons Seen Battling Rivals
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x807922

War of words over espionage probe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x806736

Dual Loyalties The Bush Neocons and Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x806736

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=802249

Israeli spy nest in the U.S. - Ashcroft says: ’Don’t arrest them!’
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=802249

Ashcroft Nixes Arrests in Israeli Spy Probe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=796806

Secrets: Classified Info: Springing a Leak
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x803017

FBI probes Jewish sway on Bush government
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=802725

Spy Case Renews Debate Over Pro-Israel Lobby's Ties to Pentagon Cons
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=804314

Israel's Mole Inside the Pentagon
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=783161

Pro-Israel Lobby Has Strong VoiceAIPAC Is Embroiled in Investigation
of Pe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=803035

Defense, Cheney Iran Specialists Questioned in (Israeli Spy) Probe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=801031

Leak Inquiry Includes Iran Experts in Administration (WaPo)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=801678

White House Learned of Spy Probe in 2001
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=800454

LAT: Israel Has Long Spied on US,Say Officials(but CIA, Mossad "intimate")
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798631

Wider FBI Probe Of Pentagon Leaks Includes Chalabi - WaPo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798333

Serving Two Flags The Bush Neo-Cons and Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=799167

Israeli political advisor may have received U.S. secrets
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795817

Pentagon leaks connected to battle over Iran policy (this is big!)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=797846

Pentagon Office in Spying Case Was Focus of Iran Debate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=796889

Alleged Pentagon Leak to Iraqi Is Under Investigation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798060

Spy probe scans neo-cons' Israel ties (long article from Asia Times)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=794029

AIPAC hires lawyers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=794332

IAEA: No proof of secret Iran plan
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=793930

WP: Spy Probe Expands/Linked to NSC Probe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795385

Pentagon Office in Spying Case Was Focus of Iran Debate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795432

U.S. Spy Probe Focuses on Two Lobbyists -Guardian
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=794973



Analyst Charged With Passing Iran Info: Franklin Turned Self InTo FBI
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1444053

Fieth resigns from Pentagon today
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1186412

Former CIA official looks to leak the truth
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=886884

New Israeli spy probe has a 30-year history, insiders say
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=852863

Israel's Mole Inside the Pentagon
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=783161

FBI probes Jewish sway on Bush government
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=802725

Money from Iran Fuels Iraq Insurgency -Rumsfeld
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=810129

Israeli spy nest in the U.S. - Ashcroft says: ’Don’t arrest them!’
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=802249

FBI probes DOD office (spy probe widens)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=784155

F.B.I said to reach official suspected of passing secrets ....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=786361

Analyst Who Is Target of Probe Went to Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=784792

Knight Ridder:FBI espionage probe goes beyond Israeli allegations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=784274

Pentagon Analyst Was Cooperating When Israel Spy Case Became Public
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=786505

Iran-Contra II? Fresh scrutiny on rogue Pentagon operation -Josh Marshall
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=784906

AIPAC's Overt and Covert Ops
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=788267

UK Express: (Perle) Faces (FBI) Quiz Over Links to Israeli Spy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=785131

Israel Says It Has No Need to Spy on U.S.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=787437

F.B.I. Is Said to Brief Pentagon Bosses on Spy Case; Charges Are Possible
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=788936

LAT: FBI Questions Israeli Lobbyists (AIPAC) in Spying Probe ((Gilon mentioned)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=789576

FBI briefs Wolfowitz on Israeli spy claim
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=790076

F.B.I. Interviews 2 Suspected of Passing Secrets to Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=792950

FBI seizes computer from AIPAC offices
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=791564

Pentagon Office in Spying Case Was Focus of Iran Debate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795432

Leak Probe More Than 2 Years Old (AIPAC)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795905

AIPAC hires lawyers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=794332

Spy probe scans neo-cons' Israel ties (long article from Asia Times)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=794029

FBI Informed White House of AIPAC Probe Two Years Ago
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=797181

Alleged Pentagon Leak to Iraqi Is Under Investigation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798060

Serving Two Flags The Bush Neo-Cons and Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=799167

Israeli political advisor may have received U.S. secrets
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795817

Wider FBI Probe Of Pentagon Leaks Includes Chalabi - WaPo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798333

LAT: Israel Has Long Spied on US,Say Officials(but CIA, Mossad "intimate")
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798631

Defense, Cheney Iran Specialists Questioned in (Israeli Spy) Probe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=801031

Leak Inquiry Includes Iran Experts in Administration (WaPo)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=801678

A Web Of Intrigue Inside the Israel espionage investigation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=803022

Pro-Israel Lobby Has Strong VoiceAIPAC Is Embroiled in Investigation of Pe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=803035

Israel's Mole Inside the Pentagon
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=783161

FBI probes possible Pentagon leak to Iraqi exiles
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=805885

Reporters' Files Subpoenaed
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=815381

Secrets: Classified Info: Springing a Leak
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x803017




:shrug:WHY IS THIS NOT TALKED ABOUT? :shrug:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Spies.
War criminals. Traitors.

Thank you for including the refence library. There is a heck of a lot of information there .... and it all is very important. On behalf of all DUers, I want you to know how much that is appreciated!
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. Torturers, rapists, war criminals, profiteers-and traitors, kick. n/t
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. Boy Am I Glad You Did An OP On This
will have more to say after I take the time to savor it

*shadow government*
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. Great information-definitely bookmarking this thread
thanks for much :hi:
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
5. Increased threats caused by the Bush/Cheney Iraq invasion
Iraqi's are now saying there was less torture/killings when Saddam was in power, this needs to be brought out in the news, Bush/Cheney keep saying; 'we are safer now, but were not safe'??!!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. Good point.
I saw on the news where Iraqis were saying how scarey it is to simply live in some parts of the country. I don't think there is a person in America who thought Saddam was a good person -- so far as I know, Donald Rumsfeld was the last American to shake saddam's hand in friendship. But it is strange to think that things are far worse today for those people that Bush/Cheney spoke about "liberating."
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ItsTheMediaStupid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
6. "self-generating" - Spook Speak for making shit up?
Just a question.

Thanks for the OP. Good work. The follow up reference library is excellent as well.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. It means
"without lineal oversight."
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
7. The WH Is Spinning This NIE So Fast
They're about to turn into spun sugar. Wasn't Ledeen also at those meetings that Rhoades and Franklin attended? And, lest we forget, Miss Girl Run Amok, aka J. Miller, has also been named in connection with the AIPAC scandal.

*shadow government*
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. The WH is saying
(and having their puppets appear to say), "There is a lot more to this NIE that isn't public." No shit. And they don't want it made public.

And yes, you are correct about the other neocon operatives' roles.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Question
Edited on Mon Sep-25-06 12:32 PM by Me.
Without using hyperbole, (as if we could exaggerate where these traitors are concerned), considering all the instances of lawlessness, from betraying their home country, to illegally invading another country, to torture, do you think there will ever be trials on the Nuremberg level. For if there are, all sorts of people could find themselves in the docket, from Matalin (very effective advocate for propaganda as well as being part of WHIG coming up with a plan to sell a fake war) to Gingrich, Fleicher, Addington, Rove, Card to all those in OSP and the P..., right up to where the buck starts.

*shadow government*
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. No.
I don't think so. The USA's position is very different than those from the Nuremberg episode. But I do think it is likely that they will be held responsible on another level, and that is why it is so important that the democrats capture the House and Senate. I am not so foolish as to believe that all of the democratic candidates are wonderful politicians, complete with a spine. But a democratic congress will allow those who are decent people to step forward.

When Bush/Cheney took power in 2000, and began their agressive tactics, I can remember thinking it would take about 20 years to repair the damage they were doing. I think that the fall elections might offer the opportunity to start on that.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. My Question Was Formulated
was because I read somewhere that Cheney won't travel out of the country, for fear of World Courts, and the recent push to "legitimize" torture from the *WH, because they too are afraid of being held responsible. Which I believe Mary Matalin mentioned on Imus (didn't hear it directly, got it secondhand).

I never thought they would be "tried" in this country, though investigations would be a good start to getting rid of them and criminal proceedings could follow. But I wonder if the world will want their piece of flesh too, when the whole dirty business finally unravels.

*shadow government*
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I think there
is a very good chance of Cheney facing impeachment if democrats take the congress.
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
40. The first meeting occurred in Rome
The Italian Job

The first meeting occurred in Rome in December, 2001. It included Franklin, Rhode, and another American, the neoconservative writer and operative Michael Ledeen, who organized the meeting. (According to UPI, Ledeen was then working for Feith as a consultant.) Also in attendance was Ghorbanifar and a number of other Iranians. One of the Iranians, according to two sources familiar with the meeting, was a former senior member of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard who claimed to have information about dissident ranks within the Iranian security services. The Washington Monthly has also learned from U.S. government sources that Nicolo Pollari, the head of Italy's military intelligence agency, SISMI, attended the meetings, as did the Italian Minister of Defense Antonio Martino, who is well-known in neoconservative circles in Washington.

Alarm bells about the December 2001 meeting began going off in U.S. government channels only days after it occurred. On December 12th 2001, at the U.S. Embassy in Rome, America's newly-installed Ambassador, Mel Sembler, sat down for a private dinner with Ledeen, an old friend of his from Republican Party politics, and Martino, the Italian defense minister. The conversation quickly turned to the meeting. The problem was that this was the first that Ambassador Sembler had heard about it.

According to U.S. government sources, Sembler immediately set about trying to determine what he could about the meeting and how it had happened. Since U.S. government contact with foreign government intelligence agencies is supposed to be overseen by the CIA, Sembler first spoke to the CIA station chief in Rome to find out what if anything he knew about the meeting with the Iranians. But that only raised more questions because the station chief had been left in the dark as well. Soon both Sembler and the Rome station chief were sending anxious queries back to the State Department and CIA Headquarters in Langley, Virginia, respectively, raising alarms on both sides of the Potomac.

The meeting was a source of concern for a series of overlapping reasons. Since the late 1980s Ghorbanifar has been the subject of two CIA "burn notices." The Agency believes Ghorbanifar is a serial "fabricator" and forbids its officers from having anything to do with him. Moreover, why were mid-level Pentagon officials organizing meetings with a foreign intelligence agency behind the back of the CIA -- a clear breach of US government protocol? There was also a matter of personal chagrin for Sembler: At State Department direction, he had just been cautioning the Italians to restrain their contacts with bad-acting states like Iran (with which Italy has extensive trade ties).

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0410.marshall.html
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QuestionAll... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
10. rec'd and bookmarked. thanks H2O. nt
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Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. The business of controlling the spies is hard work...
Edited on Mon Sep-25-06 12:03 PM by Pithy Cherub
Rummy and cheney strategically set it up to filter and channel all intelligence through them. There adherents followed orders and jumped the shark on more than one occassion. They had great amoral teachers from Iran Contra. Since it was not thrown out of court other people should be markedly upset if they can push this up the food chain to the stinking fish that are Cheney and Rummy.

:applause: H20 Man another outstanding compilation!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Yep.
When we read about these fellows looking to pass money to the Iranian intelligence operatives, and passing at least one weapon to the other gun-runner .... and then re-read the wonderful works by our friends Robert Parry and Octafish .... it becomes evident that this is nothing if not a continuation of the Iran-Contra operations.

We have some unfinished business, too.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
15. k&r!
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. a kick and recommendation
for my favorite essayist

:hi:

:kick:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Thank you!
I trust you checked for spellin errors.
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
20. Many thanks for putting this together!
Now maybe more will see what's really going on.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
22. k&r
Thanks H20 Man.
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R - will read thoroughly later n/t
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
25. Thanks! Good AIPAC info. I forgot Maloof was connected to that.
Though it doesn't surprise me that he was trying to destabilize Syria. Remember what Maloof and David Wurmser did after 9/11?



Shortly after September 11, 2001: Feith Sets Up the Counter Terrorism Evaluation Group

Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith and Middle East specialist Harold Rhode recruit David Wurmser, the director of Middle East studies for the American Enterprise Institute, to serve as a Pentagon consultant. Wurmser is a known advocate of regime change in Iraq, having expressed his views in a 1997 op-ed piece published in the Wall Street Journal (see November 12, 1997) and having participated in the drafting of a 1996 policy paper for Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu called “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm” (see July 8, 1996). Wurmser works at Feith’s office, where he and F. Michael Maloof, a former aide to Richard Perle, head a secret intelligence unit, named the Counter Terrorism Evaluation Group, or the “Wurmser-Maloof” project. Neither Wurmser nor Maloof are intelligence professionals. The four- to five- person unit, a “B Team” commissioned by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, uses powerful computers and software to scan and sort already-analyzed documents and reports from the CIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, and other agencies in an effort to consider possible interpretations and angles of analysis that these agencies may have missed due to deeply ingrained biases and out-of-date worldviews. The Pentagon unit’s activities cause tension within the traditional intelligence community. Critics claim that its members manipulate and distort intelligence, “cherry-picking” bits of information that fit their preconceived conclusions. “There is a complete breakdown in the relationship between the Defense Department and the intelligence community, to include its own Defense Intelligence Agency,” a defense official will tell the New York Times. “Wolfowitz and company disbelieve any analysis that doesn’t support their own preconceived conclusions. The CIA is enemy territory, as far are they’re concerned.” Defending the project, Paul Wolfowitz will tell the New York Times that the team’s purpose is to circumvent the problem “in intelligence work, that people who are pursuing a certain hypothesis will see certain facts that others won’t, and not see other facts that others will.” He insists that the special Pentagon unit is “not making independent intelligence assessments.” One of the cell’s projects includes sorting through existing intelligence to create a map of relationships demonstrating links between militant Islamic groups and state powers. This chart of links, which they name the “matrix,” leads the intelligence unit to conclude that Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and other groups with conflicting ideologies and objectives are allowing these differences to fall to the wayside as they discover their shared hatred of the US. The group’s research also leads them to believe that al-Qaeda has a presence in such places as Latin American. For weeks, the unit will attempt to uncover evidence tying Saddam Hussein to the 9/11 attacks, a theory advocated by both Feith and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz. The group is later accused of stovepiping intelligence directly to the White House. Former DIA chief of Mideast operations, Pat Lang, later tells the Washington Times: “That unit had meetings with senior White House officials without the CIA or the Senate being aware of them. That is not legal. There has to be oversight.” According to Lang and another US intelligence official, the two men go to the White House several times to brief officials, bypassing CIA analysts whose analyses they disagreed with. They allegedly brief White House staffers Stephen Hadley, the deputy national security adviser, and Lewis “Scooter” Libby, chief of staff for Vice President Richard Cheney, according to congressional staffers. According to unnamed Pentagon and US intelligence officials, the group is also accused of providing sensitive CIA and Pentagon intercepts to the US-funded Iraqi National Congress, which then passed them on to the government of Iran. David Wurmser will later be relocated to the State Department where he will be the senior advisor to Undersecretary Of State for Arms Control John Bolton.(see September 2002).

Entity Tags: Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Harold Rhode, David Wurmser, Douglas Feith, Donald Rumsfeld, F. Michael Maloof, Stephen J. Hadley, Lewis ("Scooter") Libby

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?id=1521846767-2766
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Add to that:
"It was through these special offices that so many of the rumors, gossip, and unsubstantiated intelligence about Iraq were passed directly to senior White House officials, notably Vice President Cheney, and were accepted without first being subjected to the rigorous analysis of the $30-billion-a-year intelligence community. American intelligence, which routinely sees and shifts thousands of bits of information daily, has had years of experience developing an analytical capability that can assess precisely whether the information we are receiving is fact or fiction."
-- Joseph Wilson; The Politics of Truth; page 434

Wurmser and Maloof had the same chances of becoming instant intelligence experts as they had of becoming heart surgeons after watching cable tv shows, or becoming NBS All Stars from watching a college game from a mid-court seat. It not only speaks loudly of how foolish they are, but it helps explain how those who were schooled in the arts were able to play these fools, and insert absolute lies into the picture. It's important to remember that even Ollie North (who even if one dislikes him, is easily recognized as being better educated in these areas than Wurmser etc), was fooled time and again during the Iran-Contra scandals. I'm not discounting his criminal intentions and behaviors. But North got taken over and again.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. I had a question for you about Bill Gertz.
What is it about him that you like? I've never read any of his books myself, but some of his Washington Times articles, including some where Plame is concerned, tend to have a right-wing slant. And the link to his book that you cited, Enemies, contains praising quotes from Limbaugh and Hannity.

http://www.amazon.com/Enemies-Americas-Steal-Secrets-Happen/dp/0307338053/sr=8-1/qid=1159229678/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-1476613-1728729?ie=UTF8&s=books

So, not to be too impertinent, how much of what he writes is shit and how much is shinola?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. I think that it
is important to recognize that Gertz is very much a conservative. In many areas, I'm not likely to agree with his opinions. But I am aware that he has significant access to intelligence sources. So, even if I'm not going to read his work for his conclusions, I'm going to look at it for the research.

For many, many years, I've read a wide variety of sources of information. I had been impressed when I was told how Minister Malcolm X believed in reading everything, no matter if he agreed with an author or not. In debating issues, it allows one the ability to quote from the enemy in such a way that not only allows us to undercut the opposing argument, but more importantly, we can use what the opposition says that supports our stance. An example even more obvious than Gertz is my using a Michelle Malkin: it is interesting to see that even she recognizes the significance of the Franklin/AIPAC espionage scandal. I think that some of the points in this essay can potentially be useful in discussions with potential voters between now and the elections. For the more intelligent, we can say, "Well, even Mr. Gertz says ...." And for the more simple minded, we can quote Michelle.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
57. Thanks for making that distinction.
Funny thing is, I often do the reverse application where Pat Buchanan is concerned: his contradictory and prejudicial thought processes often arrive at the right conclusion in spite of himself (i.e. Iraq). But your point about using the opposition to support our stance makes sense, I'm just a little apprehensive about wading through a sea of Clinton-bashing to get to the gold. I don't want to support these wingnuts with my hard earned cash.

So, I guess I'll be making a lot more library trips in the future. ;)
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
26. The only thing I would question here is
whether to call Manoucher Ghorbanifar an "Iranian intelligence officer". I've maintained all along that we've got the same key characters running the OSP-AIPAC plot as the Niger Yellowcake forgery case, the bad MEK Iran intel, and the crew at PCCG.

Three names that should figure prominently in this narrative: Michael Ledeen and Naor Gilon. The latter name explains why the OSP-AIPAC case, and its connection with the other aspects of the conspiracy, have been virtually ignored by the corporate media.
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
27. Needs to be at the top of the page for a few days
K&R

And what a compendium from Poster Person #1

It's all there folks. Read it and act upon it.

Thanks.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. !
*shadow government*
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
30. Kick
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
31. Brain overload - so much information!
Thank you, Lots of info for my brain to absorb, K&R
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
33. For those that READ, a kick.
:kick:
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
35. You are such a treasure, H20 Man! Thanks for this...
:patriot:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Thank you.
I'm mighty happy to be part of a heck of a good team here on DU.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
37. DAMN, waterman. I don't like baseball, but shit, you hit a 4 bagger.
what a great post.

and this has to be repeated and investigated.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. The investigation ....
Even conservative Patrick Buchanan has wrote that the Justice Department should expand Patrick Fitzgerald's focus to include the Franklin/AIPAC espionage scandal. My guess is that this administration is highly unlikely to do that. I am under the impression that if the democrats take the House, there will be expanded investigations .... because they already have plenty of information that the republicans are able to keep under wraps. More, the republicans (including Rove) believe this, too.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
38. K & R
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
41. kick
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
42. "I think we could agree that the Bush administration has made the world
a more dangerous place in two ways ..."

YES, without a doubt we agree on that. Now, if only our corporate media would adequately cover these points, the one remaining Republican "strength" will be destroyed by November, and then as you say, our country can begin to repair the damage.

PS -- I'm beginning to read "Hubris", at your suggestion from an earlier post. A very interesting book.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. I think "Hubris"
is of real value. But I wish that Corn and Isikoff had included information on the Franklin/AIPAC espionage scandal. As noted in the OP, Isikoff wrote about the case for Newsweek. He surely recognizes that it is related to the Plame scandal.

I'm not sure that the corporate media can be fair in its coverage of these issues. Malcolm X used to say a duck cannot lay a chicken egg. However, I think that the democrats and other progressives can learn to coordinate media campaigns. And that might be the only way that these scandals get media coverage.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. The outsourcing of intelligence results in treason n/t
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
43. It all leads to the same place
...................
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
45. Kick
Yes, I say that there are people in this country who live in terror. Poverty is terror. Having your Social Security threatened is terror. Having your livelihood as an elderly person slowly disappearing with no replenishment is terror. Students who are dropping out of school because there are no resources to keep us in school is terror. You find people in the streets, watching drugs permeate our communities and destroy our young, it's a life of terror. And men who sit in charge of that distribution mechanism, which can help the American people overcome these problems and refuse to do so, while giving the rich more money than they've ever dreamt of having, while turning around our institutions and redirecting resources from those who are truly in need to those who are already generously endowed, if not hedonistically so, it's a great tragedy.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
46. H20 Man, I need you to explain something in this paragraph:
"Mazzetti also reports that in recent months, a number of senior intelligence officers are using information from the NIE in public speeches. There are, of course, some who will demand that this report indicates that the country needs to follow the administration's policies in order to be safe. But there is a growing trend in which military and other intelligence officers are attempting to communicate a very different message to the American public."

What do you mean by, "There are, of course, some who will demand that this report indicates that the country needs to follow the administration's policies in order to be safe."

What does this mean--slaughtering more Iraqis? Torturing more prisoners? Nuking them all? More billions to CACI mercenaries? Less electricity, food, medicine and civil order in Iraq? What policies of the Bush Junta need to be followed--as a result of the report that the invasion/occupation of Iraq has generated more terrorism--"in order to be safe"?

I genuinely don't understand it, but IF what I THINK it means is true, it seems so twisted--and counterproductive. Bush is creating more terrorism, so we "follow" Bush some more?

How can anybody argue this--and what do they mean? (You are not very explicit.)

------------

My superficial hit on this NIE is: how did they get this past Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice? I mean, it's damning. AND... pure spec... but it occurs to me that the intel agencies threatened them, that they know something (or many things) much worse than this, and said to our Criminals in Chief, "We are going to issue this report. We are going to tell the truth. Just try and stop us."

Is that your sense of it it, too? A major rumble between the patriots/truthtellers and the Cabal?




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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. A few of the
White House puppets have already stood on the lawn and said that reporters only have a few paragraphs, taken out of context. They claim the entire NIE tells a different story than does the NYTimes article. But it is classify, tying their hands at this time.

Administration supporters will be searching for what sentences or paragraphs they could declassify in order to prop up a battered administration policy. And some -- the neocons -- will attempt to twist the NIE into evidence that we simple must attack Iran .... to be "safer."

Yes, they want to kill more people. As if that solves the problem, rather than creates more hatred.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #49
65. H2O Man, have you read Robert Dreyfus' take on the NIE?

Beware The NIE
Robert Dreyfuss
September 26, 2006

snip

But is the war in Iraq producing more terrorists? I don’t think so. And until I read the whole text of the NIE—which hasn’t been released—and until I sort out the politics of how it was produced, I’m not convinced that the U.S. intelligence community think so, either.

It’s important to remember that the NIE, begun in 2004, took two years before it was published, in its current classified version. It went through several iterations, pushed and pulled by Bush administration politicos. The Times, in breaking the story, reported that “some government officials were unhappy with the structure and focus of earlier versions of the document.” According to my sources, those unhappy with the document were mostly at the Pentagon, and centered around the neoconservatives, who undoubtedly used their influence with the White House, Vice President Cheney, and intelligence czar John Negroponte—who approved the final version of the NIE—to make changes they wanted. It’s not as if an NIE is a pristine, values-free report. Instead (remember the bogus NIE on Iraq’s WMD in 2002) it is often a highly politicized document, especially in the Bush administration.

In their eagerness to knock down Bush’s war in Iraq by using reports about the NIE, the Democrats risk giving another boost to the president in the “other” war, namely, the so-called war on terrorism. By embracing the NIE’s reported conclusion that the war in Iraq has made the threat of terrorism worse, the Democrats play into Bush’s strong suit. While most Americans think that the war in Iraq is wrong and not worth fighting, polls continue to show that support for President Bush as the commander in chief of the Global War on Terror. Ironically, by endorsing the idea that radical Islamist terrorism is a major threat to the United States, the Democrats could end up driving U.S. voters into the arms of the president once again.

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/09/26/beware_the_nie.php

My fear is that this is Karl Rove's October Surprise. Any report that can be politicized by this bunch will be politicized.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. That's a good article.
Very interesting. It reminds me of another discussion I took part in earlier today, concerning the generals meeting with some senators yesterday. It was a fascinating meeting. It appears the administration, in the person of Donald Rumsfeld, has crossed too many people. Yet, while we should absolutely listen to these generals when it comes to what resources our soldiers need, and how to fight wars, we need to be very careful that we don't allow them undue influence. And that means having them determine when we fight wars. (Though they should have significant say in when NOT to.)

The generals are saying, in essence, what they want/need to "win" in Iraq. That should remind us older folks of the military saying what they wanted/needed to "win" in Vietnam. In both cases, our intervention was wrong. Our military aggression was an error. As citizens, we need to move towards getting our nation out of Iraq. We don't belong there.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
48. Thank you once again, H2O Man, and another 'recommend'.
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
50. Love the title
excellent analogy.
Once again thanks for all of the research and efforts. You are truly a gem. When do we get to buy a book from you?

:patriot:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. The title
seemed to fit.

I think that Wilson's book, along with Corn & Isikoff's, are pretty high quality reads that detail the Plame scandal. James Bamford's revised "A Pretext for War" has good information on the neocon/AIPAC scandal. I have some concerns about the inevitable books by non-journalists and non-participants, who will look to capitalize and promote themselves. My goal is public education, with hopes that it leads to more active citizen participation in the political system. If my essays contribute to that process, than my goals are fully achieved. Posting them for free on a forum like DU seems like the best option for me, though I do think that if a person put the various Plame Threads together, it would make a heck of a book.
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. But...
Putting your essays and research into book form would help accomplish your goal of educating people. Diseminating it on a larger scale could have a larger impact. We all appreciate it here of course, but I wonder how many would choose to be exposed to it if they could be exposed to it. It's not exploiting or selling out, but just taking what you do, and kicking it up a notch. And please! The word "journalist" is evolving rapidly nowadays. There are professional "journalists" who are nothing more than stenographers or pretty readers. Katie Couric calls herself a journalist and she isn't fit to lick your shoes. Journalism is online now. They derisively call you all bloggers, but that is only out of self-loathing of the whores they have become. You can process many complex facts, maintain a grasp of a vague overlapping web of scandals and conspirators, follow the money, find the secrets and hidden truth and then communicate it in an articulate, organized fashion that can be understood and consumed by others and engage them to learn more. Isn't that what a "journalist" should do? Should be? You already work so hard it's clear so it can't be laziness. If I'm overstepping I apologize. It's just like you have a beautiful singing voice but you only sing in the shower. Then again, there are what? 95K plus people here in the DU shower with you. Sing on Patrick! You are always in tune.

:patriot:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. Well thank you!
I appreciate your kind words more than you might realize. And I do not think you are "overstepping" in any way. It means a lot to me that you would think that highly of what I say on this forum.

Although I watch tv, and read papers, magazines, and books, I do not have a very high opinion of the vast majority of journalists. Indeed, it is because I do watch them and read their works that I hold the opinion that I do. It seems to me that it might be important that our society stop looking, either exclusively or primarily, to the corporate media for information. One of my best friends tells me that right now, the world is spinning too fast, and it is important for people to step into a slower-paced environment. In that sense, my being disabled and physically quite limited due to an auto accident allows me opportunities that being part of the faster moving world did not afford me. It's like the old saying that everything is as it should be, or it wouldn't be ..... and knowing that to be true, I'm confident that every person who is supposed to read my rantings, does. And that includes both those who agree with me, and those who think I'm a darned fool!

Again, I thank you.
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. Well you're welcome!
I guess you can tell, I'm a fan. :hi: :hug:
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #51
54. !
Not everyone should write a book, there are many who think they know more than do, and what they are doing isn't original but actually a compilation of the analysis and discovery/research others have done. Your work falls in the former category (meaning original), and should you ever overcome your reticence I would love to support a book by you on this subject.

*shadow government*
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
53. dropkicking this post through the goalpoast, Jesus (and Buddha-Mohammed)
whatever Divine Messengers you got, they are inspiring me to kick this...

Republicons -- has there ever been a less honorable, more un-American group of greedheads?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. Thank you.
This group is surely the greatest threat that our generation faces. When Bush says that our nation faces an enemy unlike any we have faced before, I agree .... although I know that he is not conscious of the true nature of that threat.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
56. Speaking of 544 Camp Street...
...and 531 Lafayette Street: We need to remember the other side of the pond.



British “Pseudo-Gang” Terrorists Exposed in Basra

by Kurt Nimmo
September 24, 2005
kurtnimmo.com

Baghdad Dweller, writing for Uruknet, reports two British soldiers held by “Iraqi authorities” in Basra (also described as “Shiite militiamen” in the corporate media), and subsequently freed after the British stormed a police jail, were working undercover as bombers. Baghdad Dweller includes a link to the Washington Post, where the following appears: “Iraqi security officials on Monday variously accused the two Britons they detained of shooting at Iraqi forces or trying to plant explosives. Photographs of the two men in custody showed them in civilian clothes.” The Herald notes the following: “Sources say the British soldiers, possibly members of the new Special Reconnaissance Regiment formed earlier this month to provide intelligence for SAS operations, were looking at infiltration of the city’s police by the followers of the outspoken Shi’ite cleric, Moqtada al Sadr,” thus admitting the soldiers worked undercover.

The “Special Reconnaissance Regiment,” according to Regiments.org, “formed with HQ at Hereford from volunteers of other units to support international expeditionary operations in the fight against international terrorism, absorbing 14th Intelligence Company (formed for operations against Ulster terrorists), Intelligence Corps, and releasing the SAS and SBS for the ‘hard end’ of missions.” Is it possible the “hard end” of the “mission” in Iraq is to discredit the resistance and sow chaos in the country by fronting pseudo-gang terrorist groups (or the variant “pseudo-guerilla operations”), as the British have ample experience with elsewhere, notably in Kenya during the Mau Mau uprising and in Malaya? “Pseudo operations are those in which government forces disguised as guerrillas, normally along with guerrilla defectors, operate as teams to infiltrate insurgent areas,” writes Lawrence E. Cline for the U.S. Army War College External Research Associates Program. “This technique has been used by the security forces of several other countries in their operations, and typically it has been very successful.” Indeed, one long running pseudo op, Gladio, was so successful it managed to render a nominal Italian terrorist group, the Red Brigades (Brigate Rosse), into an excuse (after proper infiltration by agents provocateurs) to increase the power of reactionary forces in Italy and discredit socialist, communist, and even labor movements.

The British SAS honed its “counter-insurgency” techniques in Northern Ireland and there is no reason to believe it has refrained from doing so in Iraq. “Formed to perform acts of sabotage and assassination behind enemy lines during World War 2, the SAS evolved into a counter-insurgency regiment after the war,” writes Sean Mac Mathuna. Mathuna cites a 1969 Army Training manual (British Army Land Operations Manual, volume 3, counter-revolutionary operations) that enumerates several “tasks,” including:

    the ambush and harassment of insurgents, the infiltration of sabotage, assassination and demolition parties into insurgent-held areas, border surveillance … liaison with, and organization of friendly guerrilla forces operating against the common enemy.

    Examples “were found during the Mau-Mau rebellion in Kenya during the mid-fifties,” Mathuna explains, “when SAS officers commanded some of the infamous ‘pseudo gangs’ that terrorized the civilian population,” and

    in Borneo, where they used cross-border operations to attack and destroy guerrilla bases; and in Aden in 1967, where they dressed as Arabs and would use an Army officer to lure Arab gunmen into a trap and kill them. To defeat the insurgents counter-terror must be deployed back at them—described by Ken Livingstone as “subverting the subverters”….



Addendum

It is not surprising the corporate media in the United States and Britain would omit crucial details on this story. In order to get the whole story, we have to go elsewhere—for instance, China’s Xinhuanet news agency. “Two persons wearing Arab uniforms opened fire at a police station in Basra. A police patrol followed the attackers and captured them to discover they were two British soldiers,” an Interior Ministry source told Xinhua. “The two soldiers were using a civilian car packed with explosives, the source said.”

So, the next time you read or hear about crazed “al-Qaeda in Iraq” terrorists blowing up children or desperate job applicants, keep in mind, according to the Iraqi Interior Ministry, the perpetrators may very well be British SAS goons who cut their teeth killing Irish citizens.

CONTINUED...

www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20050924&articleId=992



All the up and coming stuff about Iraq making us less safe is true, but also helps make us forget the bigger point: The neocons need to screw up the entire Middle East in order to implement their strategic plan, which is to secure the future for themselves: Oil Israel Logistics, which is how Ray McGovern put it.

Part of the deal is lots of humanity gets killed in the process. My secret fear is most of humanity means nothing to them, but they'll still require a few hundred million to serve them. But, if they get the ziggy, too, the tyraniccal bastards would be all right.

As seemslikeadream noted, what Bush has in mind is peace for us. Defined, it is the peace of the grave what good people would enjoy.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. BUSH'S PLAN FOR PEACE IS THE PEACE OF THE COMMON GRAVE
BUSH'S PLAN FOR PEACE IS THE PEACE OF THE COMMON GRAVE



EVERY DEATH CREATES NEW ENEMIES

MORE TERRORISTS

MORE DANGER

MORE DEATH

AND REMEMBER...

HE IS JUST GETTING STARTED...

BUSH'S PLAN FOR PEACE

IS THE PEACE OF THE COMMON GRAVE


http://www.bushflash.com/pax.html WATCH THIS VIDEO
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
60. Judge "USE ESPIONAGE LAWS" Rosen and Weissman AIPAC
Judge "USE ESPIONAGE LAWS" Rosen and Weissman AIPAC

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060811-110246-3478r

Broad ruling clears way for spy trial
WASHINGTON, Aug. 11 (UPI) -- An Alexandria, Va., federal judge, in a ruling with potentially broad implications, has cleared the way for the trial of two pro-Israel lobbyists.

U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis III said the U.S. government could use espionage laws to prosecute a private citizen who gained access to national defense data.

The Los Angeles Times said the decision may be the first that says citizens other than government employees can be charged for receiving and disclosing such information. Some saw a possible problem for advocates, reporters and other information gatherers.

The ruling specifically opens the way for Steven J. Rosen and Keith Weissman, former officials of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee,to stand trial.

They were indicted last year on charges of conspiring to obtain information about Iran and other Middle East nations from Pentagon analyst Lawrence A. Franklin. Franklin, who pleaded guilty to passing government secrets, was sentenced to more than 12 years in prison.


http://irmep.org/PDF/08092006EllisOpinion.pdf

http://irmep.org/rosweiss2.htm

The government's case against Rosen and Weissman hinges on applying the Espionage Act which states:

"whoever, lawfully or unlawfully having possession of, access to, control over, or being entrusted with any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blue print, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, willfully communicates or transmits or attempts to communicate or transmit the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it on demand to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it. . . . shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000, or by imprisonment for not more than two years, or both."
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. The 8-9-06 ruling can
be found by googling: Case 1:05-cr-00225-TSE Doc 337. It is 68 pages, and certainly an interesting document to read.

The defendants take a number of curious positions in their motion to have the charges against them dismissed. Judge Ellis considered them, and gave thoughtful responses. I will be taking a closer look at the ruling soon, but think it's worth noting that the defense has attempted to make this a "freedom of the press" issue. Neither defendant is a journalist. They were engaged in activities as part of a private intelligence unit.

One of the two, Steve Rosen, had previously been employed at the RAND Corporation. He had at one time been granted a US government Secret security clearance. He was later authorized to hold a Top Secret US government security clearance. More, the CIA would grant him a Secret Industrial security clearance. He was absolutely clear about what Top Secret information is; who it can be shared with; who it can NOT be shared with; and the penalties for violating the espionage laws.

He was passing classified information to an intelligence agent of a foreign country. It is insincere and wrong for him to pretend his actions have anything to do with a free press.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
63. Applying the concept of "self-generating" cells to the rogue intel
gathering and operations is brilliance.

Proto-fascism, like terrorism, seems to be metastacizing. There is a cancer on American democracy.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. It is healthy
for the nation to hear from the real intelligence experts. The release of the 3 pages of information from the NIE is a powerful start in the right direction.

That clowns like Douglas Feith, who thought they could just step in and become an adequate analyst where national security is involved, is mind-boggling. They could no more do that than decide one afternoon to become top surgeons. I think the real surgeons are going to go to work now.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. Feith,
the "stupidest f---ing guy on the planet".

I choose, like you, to believe that our democracy is able to expel this kind of disease. It's getting easier to believe, too.

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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-27-06 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
68. kick
A brief primer designed to help you understand the workings of our new, streamlined American system of government.


JON CARROLL

Monday, January 2, 2006


Perhaps you have been unable to follow the intricacies of the logic used by John Yoo, the UC Berkeley law professor who has emerged as the president's foremost apologist for all the stuff he has to apologize for. I have therefore prepared a brief, informal summary of the relevant arguments.

Why does the president have the power to unilaterally authorize wiretaps of American citizens?

Because he is the president.

Does the president always have that power?

No. Only when he is fighting the war on terror does he have that power.

When will the war on terror be over?

The fight against terror is eternal. Terror is not a nation; it is a tactic. As long as the president is fighting a tactic, he can use any means he deems appropriate.

Why does the president have that power?

It's in the Constitution.

Where in the Constitution?

It can be inferred from the Constitution. When the president is protecting America, he may by definition make any inference from the Constitution that he chooses. He is keeping America safe.

Who decides what measures are necessary to keep America safe?

The president.

Who has oversight over the actions of the president?

The president oversees his own actions. If at any time he determines that he is a danger to America, he has the right to wiretap himself, name himself an enemy combatant and spirit himself away to a secret prison in Egypt.

But isn't there a secret court, the FISA court, that has the power to authorize wiretapping warrants? Wasn't that court set up for just such situations when national security is at stake?

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court might disagree with the president. It might thwart his plans. It is a danger to the democracy that we hold so dear. We must never let the courts stand in the way of America's safety.

So there are no guarantees that the president will act in the best interests of the country?

The president was elected by the people. They chose him; therefore he represents the will of the people. The people would never act against their own interests; therefore, the president can never act against the best interests of the people. It's a doctrine I like to call "the triumph of the will."

But surely the Congress was also elected by the people, and therefore also represents the will of the people. Is that not true?

Congress? Please.

It's sounding more and more as if your version of the presidency resembles an absolute monarchy. Does it?

Of course not. We Americans hate kings. Kings must wear crowns and visit trade fairs and expositions. The president only wears a cowboy hat and visits military bases, and then only if he wants to.

Can the president authorize torture?

No. The president can only authorize appropriate means.

Could those appropriate means include torture?

It's not torture if the president says it's not torture. It's merely appropriate. Remember, America is under constant attack from terrorism. The president must use any means necessary to protect America.

Won't the American people object?

Not if they're scared enough.

What if the Supreme Court rules against the president?

The president has respect for the Supreme Court. We are a nation of laws, not of men. In the unlikely event that the court would rule against the president, he has the right to deny that he was ever doing what he was accused of doing, and to keep further actions secret. He also has the right to rename any practices the court finds repugnant. "Wiretapping" could be called "protective listening." There's nothing the matter with protective listening.

Recently, a White House spokesman defended the wiretaps this way: "This is not about monitoring phone calls designed to arrange Little League practice or what to bring to a potluck dinner. These are designed to monitor calls from very bad people to very bad people who have a history of blowing up commuter trains, weddings and churches." If these very bad people have blown up churches, why not just arrest them?

That information is classified.

Have many weddings been blown up by terrorists?

No, they haven't, which is proof that the system works. The president does reserve the right to blow up gay terrorist weddings -- but only if he determines that the safety of the nation is at stake. The president is also keeping his eye on churches, many of which have become fonts of sedition. I do not believe that the president has any problem with commuter trains, although that could always change.

So this policy will be in place right up until the next election?

Election? Let's just say that we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. It may not be wise to have an election in a time of national peril.
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