Our nation stopped being America the moment Bush ordered torture.

[blm]

He stripped our troops who are now suffering mentally because they no longer have the moral authority to continue military action.

And no American should expect our troops to go into battle WITHOUT the protection America's strong moral code gave them.

[MadMaddie]

1. That says it all....

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. Nope, it was when then did "shock & awe" on an innocent country

and everybody cheered. That was the end.

[cally]

3. No, when the Congress and military followed along

that is when we lost our country. No person should be able to control this country's actions. When the checks and balances refuse to be a part of government, then we lost America. I blame Congress, the military, and the courts more than *. It is their fault for not standing up in the face of oppression.

[blm]

4. So, torture (we now know) going on for a year before the IWR was OK

but a resolution in late 2002 calling for Bush to pursue diplomatic efforts and renewed weapons inspections before he determined military action was necessary was the turning point for you?

Hm.... I would think that Bush's VIOLATION of the IWR would be more significant than a resolution that could have PREVENTED war if it had been administered honestly.

Did you catch Gonzalez' testimony under oath a few months back where he admitted that the IWR did NOT give the president war powers, and that they had to write a signing statement to the IWR?

Rove sure created a great spin that IWR was a vote for war. Even alot of lefties still believe it.

[cally]

10. This is supposed to be a government where no person can take control

I think it's a huge mistake to blame Bush for all of this. The crazies will just resurrect in a few years or decades. It's not Bush alone, he is not satan, it's the entire neocon establishment. We have far bigger battles to fight than Bush. We have an entire, very wealthy, neocon establishment. I so wish it was just one man, but it's not.

[JCMach1]

5. No, when a nation sat idly by and let an election be stolen

in front of their very eyes without lifting a finger America died...

[blm]

6. That was based on bad corporate news coverage - I don't think most

people understood how the Supreme Court decision played out against our constitutional directives.


With torture, ALL Americans realize and understand completely that this isn't an American value we've held throughout our history.

[JCMach1]

7. If they don't get it for a stolen election, they won't get it for torture

either...

See, we have to accept both and move on... that's how the media spins it...

[blm]

9. This is something every one of us LEARNED since childhood.

I have to hope that conditioning prevails in the American mindset.

[Solly Mack]

8. and that was how many years ago now?

:(

[flordehinojos]

11. more to the point,

we stopped being AMERICA the minute bush stole our elections and set our democracy back hundreds of years!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

12. You know, there aren't too many posts on DU I am in

absolute, total agreement on.

But this is one.

Torture is, simply un-American. And to me, staying up 40 hours and all the other nonsense is torture. We MUST be above that. If not, why the hell bother???