Should we ban the privatization and commercialism of space?

[BushOut06]

Is it just me, or does anyone else find these private space companies very troubling? Don't be fooled into thinking these private corporations are interested in pursuing some noble "Star Trek" research. Bullshit. The only thing they are interested in is in making as much $$$ as possible. To these people, space just represents a vast untapped resource, there for the plunder. Greedy corporations have already trashed this planet, must we allow them to trash the Moon, outer space, and other planets as well? I'm concerned because there is practically zero oversight, it's almost as if it's anything goes in space - after all, there aren't any governmental jurisdictions to worry about.

We should treat space the way we treat Antarctica, reserve it for government research only. No single government or corporation has a right to claim any of it for their own.

[salvorhardin]

1. This is parody right? n/t

[BushOut06]

2. Not really...

I just wanted to get DUers' opinion on this. Honestly, this is something that doesn't really get too much attention. Currently, private spaceflight is still in its infancy - but what happens 10-20 years from now, when private spaceflight is routine? What checks are in place? We know that the moon holds tremendous amounts of natural resources - should we allow any private corporation with the technology for spaceflight to begin strip-mining operations on the moon? Asteroid mining is currently the domain of science-fiction, but within a decade or so, it could very easily be reality. There's already plenty of space debris floating around just from the limited spaceflights that the US and Russia have undertaken. What happens when you start adding space tourism and other commercial ventures to that mix on a regular basis?

[RB TexLa]

3. If I can go mine on a planet, who do you think should have the

jurisdiction to stop me? Just wondering who you think should regulate such activity?

[BushOut06]

4. It's an issue we're going to have to address eventually

I think this is something the United Nations will have to eventually take up. There could be Earth-bound jurisdiction, as any launches would have to originate from here.

Theoretically, what's to stop a corporation from setting up shop on the moon, and strip-mining it for all its worth? Just because it can be done, does it make it right?

Just things to think about. I'm afraid that by the time we're aware of any problems, the proverbial cat will be out of the bag, and it will be too late.

[pitohui]

7. what harm is done by strip mining the moon?

it's a dead airless piece of rock, isn't it?

strip mine them there so we don't have to strip mine us here

or something like that :-)

[WinkyDink]

21. The U.N.? How about the fact that it is a SECURITY issue? I, for

one, don't care for the idea of space-weapons privately-deployed.

[hyphenate]

5. I disagree

If we had to rely on NASA or any other world-governmental agency to continue to explore space on a consistent basis, we would continue to go nowhere.

To many people, especially those in the United States, the aspect of exploring the moon or any further solar system planet has come to a matter of money. The truth is, the budget for the space program is a mere drop in a bucket of financing in comparison to every other program budgeted by the Feds, and even that tiny bit is all that it's ever going to get when there are no many people out there derogating the whole thing. Many people, especially the RRR, don't want to go into space because it scares the shit out of them to think that there might be aliens out there, there are people who still don't believe we ever landed on the moon, there are now fewer and fewer American students skilled enough to work in the space program, and the desire to compete against any other country is long gone by.

Let's face it--there is just so much enmity against science in the U.S. by too many people, and to that same group, it is not important to pursue the exploration of the unknown, regardless of what might be found. I recall my geology teacher's comments as well, and I can partly empathize--he said (paraphrased) that we've been so good at fucking up our own planet, why should we be allowed into space to fuck up the rest of the universe?

I do believe that if corporations want to help with the expenses of going into space, let them. It's going to happen down the road regardless, and if it keeps us growing technologically, so much the better. The government, under repukes especially, will never fund the space program or NASA as it should be funded, so why shouldn't private companies cough up some money and help step up the ability to keep going into space?

As it stands right now, we have lost a great deal of impetus in our desire to learn about the universe, and few see it as the necessity that it should be. Too few realize the inventions and ideas and concepts which have been discovered in the research to travel in space, things which are used in the everyday world of millions of people, for which we would be lost if they had not been conceived.

I would prefer that we had a government that was as gung ho to NASA and space exploration as John F. Kennedy was, and those who followed in the 1960s and 1970s. But let's face it--things suck so completely and totally right now that we would stand a better chance of finding Jimmy Hoffa than we do of ever going back to the moon or landing humans on Mars.

[serryjw]

15. US is weaponizing space

no why not have Halliburtin there :sarcasm:
http://www.space.com/news/050617_space_warfare.html

[hyphenate]

17. I don't doubt it

Going to the moon and into space has never been about intellectual curiosity, let's face it. The idealists among us, myself included, have to make believe it is anything near that. But logic and reason seem to always come back to the aggression factor, and how peaceful voyages into space will likely never be the norm.

Nearly sixty years after "The Day the Earth Stood Still" the film is still relevant and oh-so prescient in its theme.

[serryjw]

20. It's funny that most people's

initial reaction would be for peaceful exploration but not these people. They live and breathe aggression, money and power,



"The Day the Earth Stood Still"..Was it good? Never saw it.

[hyphenate]

23. you should see it

It's an excellent film. Michael Rennie is very satisfying as the alien. And of course, it's a classic. The speech at the end of the film is priceless, and has remained my own philosophy for many years--humans from Earth are too aggressive and belligerent to be greeted by other interstellar travelers--that we must be kept from venturing further than within our own system to prevent our warlike ways from spreading. Very profound, and very, very true.

[serryjw]

24. I will rent it

thanks

[Union Thug]

6. Yes, ban it. I don't want to see Coke adds blocking my

view of the moon and stars. I already have to put up with this bullshit on the public airwaves and when driving down public highways.
This is the future of commercialized space.

[OldSiouxWarrior]

9. Coke ads? You are being rather silly.

Yes, I am well aware that there were internet rumors of that exact thing a few years ago. But anyone with a little bit scientific knowledge can realize how utter silly that rumor is.

BTW - What will you do if country ABC doesn't agree to your treaty and allows their private corporations to launch deep space ventures? Will you go to war?

[OldSiouxWarrior]

8. The reason Antartica is reserved is that nobody wants it.

That makes it very easy to reserve.

And most of the nice things that you already use space for have a heavy involvement from private industry. Private industry is NOT automatically evil.

And how can you pollute the moon? The moon is a dead hunk of rock. Totally, absolutely D-E-A-D.
Nothing at all alive there - at all.

Polluting the asteroid belt is an absolute impossibility? How can you pollute empty space? I don't think you have any idea how vast the asteroid belt is, nor how tiny humans are. And the asteroids are just rocks. Dead rocks in orbit. How can you pollute a dead rock?

If you want a government to do the exploring and developing, it won't happen. There are few votes for space. I am old enough to remember all the screaming about the money being spent on space, in the early days of the space programs. (We could use that money here to feed the hungry, etc.)

Let those in private industry who are willing to put up the money have a shot at it. And if they succeed, let them reap the rewards of being visionaries.

[OldSiouxWarrior]

10. How would you stop it?

Country ABC refuses to accept your treaty. They begin to develop a private colony on the Moon. In fact, due to the inaction of other governments, it is the ONLY lunar colony. Do you go to war against country ABC?

[eridani]

11. Why should space be any different from earth?

Private economic activity in both places needs to be regulated, not abolished.

[left is right]

12. I thought there was treaty agreements already in place

banning the commercialization of space that date back to just after the moon walks

[sweetheart]

13. the new enclosure acts

Whomever writes the contract makes all the money (the house always wins).

Whomever can enclose it for a profit will, but alas, then if its a public subsidy,
then its a public common.

[w4rma]

14. Technology hasn't advanced enough for this to be a priority for me, yet.nt

[LunaSea]

16. Google "The Moon Treaty"

If you are really interested.

There's quite a bit of governmental jurisdiction regarding space activities.
"Practically zero oversight"?
Try flying a piece of hardware.
What companies are you talking about?

"To these people, space just represents a vast untapped resource, there for the plunder."
Sorry BO6, I AM one of those people, with over 10 years working with private and public space ventures.
From my experiences, you are quite wrong.

"The only thing they are interested in is in making as much $$$ as possible."
"The quickest way for a billionaire to become a millionaire, is the get into aerospace"
Walt Anderson
Former billionaire.


And those vast untapped resources will be the only thing that keeps our collective descendants from dying off in ugly ways as we greedily trash the planet as a species, incorporated or not.
Every engineer, CEO, scientist and astronaut I've spent time with knows this. It's highly motivating.
And you would compare that kind of dedication to a TV show? You know, we spend FAR more on organized sports and pet food than we have ever spent on spaceflight, be it for science or commerce.


Believe it or not, space might give us the means to repair the damage we have done-
http://www.amazon.com/Moonrush-Improving-Earth-Resources-Apogee/dp/1894959108

Ad Astra,
By every means necessary.

[lumberjack_jeff]

18. Commercialization yes, privatization no

The resources of the solar system should be exploited in a way that benefits all mankind.

I don't want Halliburton to erect their flag on Mars. I don't want them erecting a virtual barbed-wire fence on the asteroid belt. I don't begrudge anyone making a buck on space exploration, but I won't begrudge the generation that comes after them benefitting too.

Much of our laws (patent, copyright) are geared toward assuring that immortal corporations have perpetual ownership of resources.

[Bridget Burke]

19. I find the Militarization of Space more worrying....

Some sites of interest here: www.betterworldlinks.org/book11e.htm

[politicat]

22. No. Absolutely not.

I would be in favor of it IF the governments of the world would actually do something with space exploration, but they don't. They send up high school science experiments and PR. That's neither science nor exploration.

We have to get off of this rock. We desperately need some off-site backup, even if only in Luna, because between our own lack of good housekeeping and God's Floating Rock Garden, Earth's in trouble. We humans have done a lot of bad, but we've got great potential and a pretty decent track record for good, and I want to see how the story ends. We need to have some of us in places that aren't THIS ROCK.

So if governments won't see that it's a heck of a lot easier to remodel and restore when you're not living in the house, then private organizations have to do it, and that means having a vacation house.

Yes, it starts with sending postcards into space and bringing them back, or rolling up Flat Stanleys and putting them in short orbit. Yes, it starts with lots of money and profit, but it gets the work done, and we have to get off of this planet.

(N.B. I write educational materials for Beyond Earth Launch services, a company that does sub-orbital stress testing for components to be used in space flight. I know a lot of the key players in the private space launch sector, and with one single exception, every one of them is a geek raised on Science Fiction and the Apollo missions. All of them are driven by a desire to go into space and to further the science and pioneering of space. Most of them are effectually broke, having spent every dime they have on making this dream happen. While a few of them hope that someday they will reap the profits of their labors (and god knows I hope they do; their dedication should be rewarded) most of us don't ever expect to become fabulously wealthy. As long as we can continue to pay our mortgages, shoe our children and eat something other than oatmeal three times a day, we're happy and fulfilled and motivated to make space accessible for real people.)

Besides, do you really trust these governments to be any better about protecting and preserving space and the environments than a private company? Space is wonderful in that any trashing causes nearly immediate consequences -- leave a piece of junk in orbit, and it's pretty likely that it will give you a nice hole in your airtank. While I really don't have a problem with bundling hazardous waste onto a rocket and aiming it at the sun, closer garbage has to be picked up and cleaned up or it will hurt.

And as for private ownership... if it is wrong to own a patch of the moon and take resources from it, then it is wrong to own a patch of earth and take resources from it. Building a solar farm on the moon to send electricity back to earth via microwave relay satellites (the most plausile use of the moon's resources; that and being at the top of a nice big gravity well) doesn't damage the moon, and makes it easier to clean up this planet so that it can have green hills and plains again.

In a thousand years, our descendants will be appalled that we made it to the moon and didn't go back if we don't get moving. I don't want to have to try to explain why Proxmiring hurt the future so badly.