Heads up! THE hearing, with the generals who are '

[EST]

advocating Rumsfeld's outster on cspan right now!!

[maddezmom]

1. kicking

everyone needs to watch it.

[acmavm]

2. What are you doing up at 4:11 a.m. watching C-SPAN for goodness

sakes?

[Lasher]

3. You should be asleep too like I am.

I like the insomniac crowd best.

[acmavm]

4. I have to be at work at 6:30 a.m. so I wake up around 3. Not that I want

to. I don't. So I come here.

It's like having the playground to yourself and just a couple of other kids. Things go slower, you can catch threads you'd otherwise miss.

Plus sleep deprived people say (type) some really interesting stuff sometimes.

[Lasher]

8. Been there, done that.

I'm retired now, and don't have to do anything or go anywhere I don't want. Except my in-laws' house. And running errands for my commander in chief. And the dentist. Come to think of it, forget I said that.

I have trouble sleeping and come to the playground too. It's fun. Gonna hit the hay again in a few minutes.

[EST]

5. The meds that I take and the awful things that are happening

to my body sometimes keep me awake for days or even a week or more at a time.
This is the hearing--I caught part of it on streaming cspan3 today--that set fire to several newsies' shows last evening.

All these stunningly capable officers who cut short their careers due to shame, unwillingness to propagate the BS and courage to step out and cry "FOUL!"

[Dystopian]

10. Glad you have a nice place to go to....

when you can't sleep. Your post really hit me....please feel better, and wishing you peace of mind ~ body ~ and soul...


peace~

[EST]

14. Thanks for your thoughtfulness,,,

Sometimes I feel the need to snivel a wee bit, but we all have our own snakes to kill, don't we?

[Skidmore]

6. Good morning, everyone.

I'll join you. This hearing is really astounding and should have been broadcast as late breaking news on all channels.

Rumsfeld really needs to go.

[joanski0]

7. Good morning! I came on to post this.

So glad you beat me to it.

This hearing is amazing.

[Dystopian]

9. k/r n/t ~

[H2O Man]

11. Thanks!

I have it on now.

[Skidmore]

12. That general just laid the ceding of power of Congress at the feet of

Gephardt and Daschle and the Dems by refusing to engage in debate in an attempt to get past the election prior to going into Iraq.

[oasis]

13. A retired general says congress can subpoena disgruntled active

commanders, require them to swear under oath, then they will be able to tell it like it is in Iraq.

[magellan]

15. They are all impressive

When Baptiste told about the list of "rules" he was given to run the detention centers under his command, and couldn't bring himself to say aloud what techniques could be used on detainees, but termed them as immoral and -- oh, I can't remember the words he used, and how he told his people they would NOT be using those techniques on detainees...when he said that, the shock of it hit me all over again.

Why is no one listening to these men? How can anyone believe the lies of this administration, which are costing the lives of our soldiers and innocent people and creating an unending war? Rhetorical questions.

Listening to the retired brass makes me even more determined to see all of BushCo behind bars!!

[H2O Man]

16. It was an impressive show.

I think that the country needs to hear these gentlemen. When we consider the huge amounts of money that is being spent on the war, and listen to their description of the lack of resources that the soldiers have, it becomes evident that the Halliburtonians are among the most vile, immoral people on earth. I do not think that the military should be setting policy for this nation -- I disagree with the idea that we need to get the country behind the war effort in Iraq -- but I think that they add a diminsion to the public discussion that is essential in the sense of getting our country behind the correct policy, which is disengaging in Iraq, and getting our troops out of Iraq as soon as possible.

[magellan]

17. I agree with your sentiment nearly 100%

Say 99%. I was thinking much as you wrote while I watched. The only thing I'm torn about after listening to them is cleaning up Iraq -- if it's done right, as Hammes said, with all the resources the military leaders require, to ensure the best outcome for our troops and the Iraqis. IOW, what should have been done directly following the bone-headed invasion.

Maybe I'm naive, please don't flame me. But I feel as though we owe the Iraqis now, after destroying their country, and if we could help them rebuild properly and leave them with a chance for stability, if we could prove with sweeping changes that we want to do the right thing by them, perhaps we should try.

Of course I know that will NEVER happen with BushCo in charge, never mind Rumsfeld. The whole lot are determined liars who can't be trusted to act responsibly and in the best interests of anyone but themselves. Get rid of Rumsfeld and Bush** will just replace him with another neocon yes-man. We have GOT to rid ourselves of them all before anything positive can happen. Short of seeing the back of them on the way to the Hague, getting our military the hell out of there is the only acceptable option.

[H2O Man]

18. I think the question

is one of weighing the good versus the bad. It is important to look at the "good" in three ways: (a) the good the US has done; (b) the good we are doing right now; and (c) the potential for good in the future (which can be broken down into near- and distant future). Likewise, we look at the "bad" in those same three ways: (a) the damage we have caused; (b) the damage we cause being there today; and (c) the short- and longterm damegae the US being in Iraq will do. In that sense, I believe the amount of good we are doing, or can do in the future, is far outweighed by the damage we are doing.

We do owe the Iraqi people. I'm not sure that the United States can repay the debt, even if it were so inclined. Perhaps the concept of Iraq as a nation, an imposed policy to begin with, suggests that the solution to the horror we have caused there will not be found in US or NATO support -- at least not in the traditional sense. Still, it would be beneficial to have someone like Wesley Clark in charge, as opposed to Donald Rumsfeld.

Malcolm X used to say that if a man viciously stabs another person in the back, and then says that he must pull the knife out of his victim slowly, so that he doesn't cause a loss of blood, that others must take over the emergency care of the victim of the attack. It can't be left to the violent thug. Perhaps what the US owes the Iraqi people, more than anything else, is to remove that knife, and to allow others who are better able to provide the emergency care to step in. And the US should pay the bill.

[magellan]

19. You make a lot of sense, H2O Man, right on target.

I must admit that as I wrote my last reply to you I thought, 'But if I were an Iraqi, would I ever again trust the US to do the right thing?' The answer is no, just like I wouldn't trust the thug in Malcolm X's analogy to render emergency care. We've passed the point of no return, to a place where all our promises and good intentions mean nothing.

It would be nice to have Wesley Clark in charge, or any of the three officers I saw giving testimony. It will take someone of that caliber to even begin to turn this mess around. If we could get even that far, maybe the Iraqis would be able and willing to take it from there.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. :)