Was the Lewinski scandal a conspiracy to destroy Clinton?

[Philosoraptor]

Many have suggested it, including crazy I. That Monica herself was all part of a simple but effective plan to humiliate and embarrass and politically assassinate a popular and successful president for doing something THEY ALL DO.

Is that too far out? Too tin foily? Is that some crackpot trying to re-write history?

You tell me.

When Bill announced he was running the republican scandal machine trotted out one of Bill's former paramours to humiliate him, for something THEY ALL DO, but it didn't stop Bill from becoming president. This pissed them off oh so royally, and they set about to set him up, knowing his penchant for doing something THEY ALL DO.

Then the bait was sent to the fish and the fishing expedition caught the big one and bada bing bada boom, impeachment. Shut the fucking government down for two years, the president got caught doing something THEY ALL FUCKING DO.

Hillary herself said it was a vast, right wing conspiracy, and she was ridiculed for it.

But I think she was right.

[cigsandcoffee]

1. Well, he didn't have to open his fly.

It's not like she raped him or anything.

[soothsayer]

3. And he could have been more up front about it when caught.

[EST]

5. I would rather imagine she handled that chore!

[focusfan]

8. He didn`t rape her either she was more than willing

besides that it was no ones business and should have never been brought up.Sex between consenting adults is between them and them only.

[Philosoraptor]

9. they called Bill a "sexual predator" for something THEY ALL DO

[focusfan]

28. I think it was the other way,she and the neo-cons were the predator

[Donald Ian Rankin]

57. That's not entirely true.

Adultery is relatively rare, and fairly contemtible. I don't think it has anything whatsoever to do with politics, but it did and does considerably reduce my respect for Clinton as a person. I might well vote for him to run the country (or as candidate for VP, now, given that he's served two terms), but I wouldn't let him marry my daughter (figuratively speaking).

Vide Thomas Jefferson as another example of a great man who was clearly not a nice person, and Adolf Hitler as an example of someone who was - as far as I know - a model of rectitude in his private life.

[mzteris]

69. Hitler ...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=17757880&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=shot-by-uncle-adolf--name_page.html


Though the link is "suspect" - it's all I could find handy on the net. I've read some biographies of Hitler that indicate there were *other* sexual issues as well - including possibly homosexual encounters beginning when he was in Vienna and a starving artist/"student" on up through his rise to power.

In addition, there were other "liaisons" with women - whose name(s) I cannot remember. I wasn't focusing on that aspect at the time. (I was doing a research paper on Hitler and the arts - how they influenced him - how he used them.)

[politicat]

76. Adultery is not rare... read the Masters & Johnson studies.

It's very common - It affects at least half of all marriages at some point, and is the 2nd greatest cause of divorce (behind money issues... that divorce makes worse...) It has always been common, and it is part of human biology. It is possible to struggle against it, but it's nearly impossible to eradicate it.

And as for letting my hypothetical daughter marry whomever she wants -- it's her life and if I've given her the tools to have her own life, then my job is done. That is a terribly patriarchical and misogynistic statement you made -- you basically said that your child doesn't have the right to be an adult if you disapprove.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

83. I suggest you consider the meaning of the phrase "figuratively speaking".

What I wished to imply was I would hold Clinton's adultery against him in private life. The standard idiom for this is "I wouldn't let him marry my daughter". As I have no daughter, I never had a daughter, and I don't intend to have a daughter, not even of any kind, and if I did it wouldn't be my business to stop her marrying Bill Clinton if she wished to, I qualified the expression with "figuratively speaking".

I could have said "I would attempt to discourage anyone of my aquaintance who asked my advice from getting involved in a sexual or emotional relationship with him, even were he single and available", but it would have used far more words and not have made my point as effectively.

Taking a metaphor literally is a trick that many fictional characters, particularly in the works of G.K.Chesterton, use to demonstrate that they think more deeply about these things than their interlocutors. But in real life, it's almost invariably a mistake.

[politicat]

86. The attitude conveyed was not apparently figurative.

And the attitude conveyed is still misogynistic and patriarchical. It still assumes that the speaker believes he has the right to determine the adult decisions of other adults, specifically women.

If you don't want to be called upon to defend that particular phrase, then don't use it. The phrase carries deep social meaning and implies that men have rights over women's lives and rights of self-determination.

[TheWraith]

94. You're reading much too much into it.

Yes, the sentiment expressed is silly, but you're overreacting calling it misogynistic and patriarchical. It's just an expression, one that I've heard commonly from parents of both sexes in reference to people they didn't think were suitable for their children, again of both sexes. It's an overprotective statement, but it doesn't stem from anything about men having rights over women.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

103. I'm sorry.

Beyond saying in as many words "figuratively speaking", I don't know of any better way to make it clear that that's what I'm doing. If you're not going to believe me when I say it, there's not much else I can do.

I'm quite happy to defend that phrase - it's a recognised idiom; it makes it clear what I mean, it's in no way offensive to anyone who isn't actively looking for an excuse to take offence.

The belief underlying it, incidentally, inasmuch as there is one which isn't much, it clearly just being a figure of speech, is about the rights of parents to control their children rather than of men to control women, something which I generally support.

[pitohui]

96. adultery is not rare

it has nothing to do w. politics, it is simply a fact of primate biology that we are not intended to be monogamous

[Donald Ian Rankin]

100. Basing opinions on human behaiour on evolution is a very bad idea.

We're not "intended" to be anything. If by "intended" you mean "most other primates don't" or "we evolved that way" then you're also condemning the use of fire and justifying a whole raft of things you don't want to.

We don't act the same as the great apes in all sorts of ways, and I for one am very grateful for that.

As to the frequency of adultery, http://www.womansavers.com/infidelity-statistics.asp gives 22% and 14% as the fraction of married men and women in the US who've had affairs at least once, although I believe that statistic is very hotly debated indeed.

[SOS]

68. It is interesting

that Bush Sr.'s extramarital affair with Jennifer Fitzgerald was of no interest to anyone, while Clinton was relentlessly attacked.

[Yupster]

88. Probably because

they both denied it, her up until the day she died.

[pitohui]

98. yes because she would have been prosecuted

fitzgerald was sucking off the gov't tit as a result of who she slept with

indeed, victor ashe is ambassodor of poland today as a result of who he slept with

monica lewinksy was an intern, she was never made an ambassador of any nation nor did she ever receive any high office as a result of her affair, indeed, she was struggling terribly and reduced to sewing stupid purses for cash

it's apples and oranges

the republicans give out valuable offices worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to their lovers and nothing is said

clinton gives some spare jizz that costs me the taxpayer nada and it's worth a $30 million dollar inquiry?

i'm tired of the unfairness

[Perky]

46. umm and their spouses.

[Clark2008]

104. Well, no... it was Hillary's business since she is married to Bill

But, yes, it's not my business or yours.

[madokie]

12. from this I will ask, are you one of those who wouldn't vote for Hill

under any circumstances. I thought so. now tell me you would have said no. Just wondering

[cigsandcoffee]

18. What are you talking about?

I'm not arguing any RW stuff here or drumming up anti-Hillary sentiment. I'm just pointing out that the man could have said no, which sort of negates the question about whether or not Lewinsky was a "plant." Ultimately, the ..um.. ball was in BC's court.

[focusfan]

30. I don`t know about you,but

I`m a 48 y/o male and if a 23 y/o female hit on me I don`t know that I could turn her down.

[cigsandcoffee]

36. You're arguing a man has no choice? Please.

Firstly, that's an insult to men everywhere, essentially saying we have no choice but to think with our privates. Sexism at its worst.

Secondly, I expect any President of the United States to muster the discipline to avoid such an affair - if not on principle - then at least because he'd know it leaves him (and his party) open to the partisan wrath of political enemies. He must have known that an immature girl like Lewinsky might not be great at keeping a secret, and that the public airing of an affair in the White House (with what could be construed as a young employee in his care) would cause an explosion.

Clinton made a bad choice that he didn't have to. His political enemies took the opportunity to make a circus out of it, and the whole episode harmed the country. It was avoidable.

[Tellurian]

38. Yes, it was.. I think it's changed him for the better..

He's prepared now, more than ever not to be so easily exploited.
The Cabal uses CiA, FBI, profilers to analyze your personality.

They assess your strengths and weaknesses.. They know
your vulnerabilities. They formulate a plan, then exploit!

The double standard will always be there...they do it,
no problem. Their game is to get something "on you"
even approve of what your doing at the time, then
when they want to level you and undue your popularity,
they pull scandalous information from their hip pocket
using it to destroy you.

I'll guarantee, BC is one of the few survivors of their
savage attempts to destroy. Why? Because his goodness and
his genuine love for people outweigh the Selfishness and Greed
that have become the hallmarks of the Republican Party.

[pnwmom]

43. That's true now. But why would anyone have expected that from

Clinton back then? When the press had done nothing but cover up Presidential loose zippers since the beginning of the Republic?

We'd never been under attack by a bunch of crazy fundamentalists before. Who knew?

[pitohui]

99. oh come on

let's try it this way

let's say it's a 48 yr old person hit on by a 23 yr old person, does that change your answer?

i love your view of human nature if you seriously think any middle-aged person is in a position to turn down sex with a lovely young admirer

there's a kim stanley robinson story w. this theme, it actually pre-dates the lewinsky affair, maybe the dude's psychic, but i actually think he just has a grip on human nature and you don't

aliens kidnap earthling, tell him if he can do without a blowjob for x number of days, they will allow the earth into the great federation of space brothers and all muchness of much good things will be at hand including saving humans from the death of the earth caused by some environmental crisis (don't think we called it global warming yet), kid tries to tough it out but ultimately opts for the blow job, is shipped ingloriously back to earth having failed to save the earth, high school friends tell him yeah but dude you got a BJ out of it so it was all worth it -- THAT'S human nature, my friend

anyone remember the name of this story, by the way?

seriously if you think you're going to be the most powerful person on the earth and not screw groupies that is only because you have not ever been in any position of power and faced the reality of what you do in that situation



that's the way life is, we are animals, we are biological organisms, people who kid themselves about this are 99 percent of the trouble of this world

[Dorian Gray]

77. That's pretty sad.

[pnwmom]

40. No he didn't. But what real business was it of any of ours?

When in history had the American press NOT looked the other way at this kind of behavior in a President? How was he supposed to know they were about to make an example of him?

So he cheated on his wife. That should have been her problem, and his problem. Not the whole country's problem.

[One_Life_To_Give]

66. Times had changed

When in history had the American press NOT looked the other way at this kind of behavior in a President? How was he supposed to know they were about to make an example of him?

This wasn't the 1960's. By 92 all the major corporations had policies that would result in automatic termination had a manager/supervisor/president engaged in the same behavior with an intern. Over 100million women he could of had relations with that were between him and Hillary. Versus only thousands that he should have avoided.

[pnwmom]

79. Never before had an American President been attacked in a concerted

way by the media and the other party for his extra-marital activities. Not once. It was a revival of American Puritanism that suddenly sprang up. That's part of the reason Europe thought we were nuts.

He also didn't lie in his sworn testimony. He and his lawyers asked the other side to clarify the meaning of the term "sexual relations" with the judge, and it specifically did NOT include oral sex. So he was truthfully answering the question when he said he didn't have sexual relations with her. The fact that the typical usage of that term includes oral sex is what got him impeached. The fact that the meaning of that term -- as specifically defined for him and his lawers for the purposes of his testimony -- did NOT include oral sex is why he wouldn't have been found guilty in the Senate, even if the Republicans had had a majority.

Having said all that, I wish he had just said a hearty "none of your business" when all this began. Because that's what it was. None of our business.

[livvy]

2. We must have the same milliner, or at least ones that have...

attended the same design school.
Clinton was harrassed from before day one. It was amazing that he was able to get anything done.

[EST]

4. Many of us do.

No woman that I've ever known would let a perfectly nice dress hang around with ejaculatory material on it--yeccck!
Not to mention Uggh! It would get either cleaned or disposed of.

[LaurenG]

6. I don't think Lewinski was a plant

I think Bill gave into his testosterone. I think that the Ken Starr circus was a way to keep a negative focus on Clinton while the negative entities known as the GOP did whatever they pleased behind our backs.



edit: Spelling

[terrya]

7. Yes. I absolutely believe that.

David Brock has written about it in "Blinded by the Right". And he was there. It was a well thought out conspiracy to destroy this President. Well thought out, well plotted, well financed (via Richard Mellon Scaife). Bill Clinton was targeted for destruction. The Lewinsky scandal was the tool to implement that plan.

[madokie]

14. after all other avenues were exhausted

[Yupster]

89. Well he sure jumped into it

dick first then.

[Recursion]

10. Not the affair itself

That was 100% Clenis.

Now, the fact they the GOP spent more money investigating it than they spen investigating 9/11...

[liberal N proud]

11. The con-spiracy was the continual attack on Clinton from 1994 on

Newt Gingrich started the assault on Clinton and he was investigated for one thing after another. The LIE about a BLOW JOB was all they could nail him for after all those investigations.

[Missy M]

13. I have always believed he was set up......

I don't care how tin foily it sounds. I also believe that Monica was in on the plan.

[madokie]

15. I believe time will show that to be true

[focusfan]

26. That`s the way I feel

[Tellurian]

35. Yep, I believe thats True...why wouldn't it be?

She lived next door to Bob and Libby Dole in the Watergate Complex.
You can't tell me that was a coincidence. I wouldn't put it passed
Dole to have conspired with operatives who's job it was to know her
whereabouts at all times, record her tele conversations, keep daily
logs of any contact with BC, give her unlimited access to the WH-
Oh, yeah...whether she was in on it ($$$$) I would think so..it had
to be made worth her while to cooperate. I believe she had a limit though,
she would never testify against him for $$$$. She thought she was safe.
He did too.

IIR, WH agents..SS/FBI? threatened to involve her family. They terrorized
her mother and other family members. If she didn't do as they said, they
were prepared to make ALL their lives a living hell..

I'm speaking in general terms, I'm not guaranteeing accuracy by any measure,
just kind of remembering how dangerous and vicious the Republicans can be
when you are uncooperative.

Does anyone remember the unsung hero responsible for saving Clinton's political life?

An angel called, Susan MacDougall..(sp?)

[butterfly77]

62. she probably had sex with him also..

[Tellurian]

70. I care about Living a LIE? The War in Iraq is a LIE and our troops

are dying for Bush's LYING to the American People..

How can anyone equate a SEX act to the MURDER of 10's of thousands of people
including thousands of Americans laying down their lives everyday for a LIE?

Anybody that can rationalize away a Sex Act as a bigger Sin than MURDER has Rocks in their Head
and "IS" as responsible for the MURDER of Innocent People as Bush!..

[focusfan]

101. Bullseye you are dead on perfect point

[Yupster]

90. I think if it was a set-up

they would have used someone a lot better looking than Monica.

[Justice]

16. Knowing that they were looking to destroy him, he probably needed

to be a little smarter.

I was upset that Clinton lied to us that night on TV.

However, the impeachment, the hearings, the investigations and smearing are all unforgivable (by Congress and the media), particularly when you consider what competing priorities existed in the Congress.

So (accepting the RW argument) if he was distracted, who distracted him and for what reason and at what cost?

[oasis]

17. Linda Tripp was sent on a mission by Lucianne Goldberg to seek out

and befriend Monica Lewinsky. Lucianne's sources tipped her off that it was being whispered around DC social circles that Monica and Bill had a little side action going on. Linda Tripp became a spy for Goldberg.

The rest is history.

[Justice]

20. yes, that I totally believe

[RangerSmith]

25. yep. I truly think

to believe Monica would have kept quiet the way she has been treated in this and not outed that she was a hired plant if true is so obvious one has to be purposely avoiding the truth not to see it.

[oasis]

32. Dimwit Monica was duped by Linda Tripp (the mole).

[frankly_fedup2]

19. She didn't have to keep the dress. If she had gotten that dress dry

cleaned, then there would have been no physical evidence.

[oasis]

34. Monica had intimate phone conversations w/Tripp. She is the one who told

her to save the dress.

[Yupster]

91. And Monica would be considered a crazy

woman today.

[Hubert Flottz]

21. Why else would a "LADY" save the evidence she saved?

[npincus]

22. Yes- read David Brock's"Blinded by The Right"

It was a conspiracy after the fact, Lewinsky not a plant or set-up.

[Philosoraptor]

23. When 2 or more conspire, its a conspiracy

[npincus]

31. It was a conspiracy

by many to bring down Clinton, but I don't believe Monica was part of it.

[donheld]

24. It wasn't just Monica. It was the entire Star investigation

They dug under every rock in DC and Arkansas trying to find anything they could to destroy both Bill and Hillary Clinton. Travelgate, Vince Foster, Whitewater, it went on and on. No Billy didn't have to "unzip himself" but still they were determinded to get him anyway they could. Check this book out.

http://www.amazon.com/Hunting-President-Ten-Year-Campaign-Clinton/dp/0312273193/sr=1-1/qid=1159270499/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-4034613-8498544?ie=UTF8&s=books

[Lerkfish]

27. with Starr, Tripp and Scaife involved, yes it was entrapment

Clinton did not have to take the bait, however, hooks were being baited to catch him.

I always considered it to be like what they did to Delorean.
Delorean would have never thought of money laundering drug money to get out of his financial woes....the undercover team came to him with the idea, and kept pushing him into it. True, he could have said no, but I felt if they had not set up the sting operation, he would have found a different way out of his situation....maybe still sleazy but it wouldn't have been suitcases full of cocaine.

at any rate, considering Gingrich and several other republicans had documented affairs, and when it was brought up while they were harrassing CLinton, they said "no reason to make this a witch hunt".... should be all you need to know about whether it was a set up.

Do I think Monica was in on the setup? quick answer: who keeps a semen-stained dress?

[riona]

29. Whether it was a plan or not

doesn't matter at this point. But what it has left is a news media and public with a thirst for personal scandal and a Congress that happily jumps into the muck. Meanwhile.....need I elaborate?

[malaise]

33. Duh

Ask Gary Hart. They simply used Hoover's tactics from MLK. This started long before Monica but when I discovered that Monica went to school with Abramoff, I needed no further proof.

[mdmc]

37. the right wanted his head

but so did interns:shrug:

[Perky]

41. Yeah but all Monica ultimately got was the Shaft

Look if she was in cahoots with the rightwing she would have ended up with a high paying job somewhere. I don't think that happened.

[mdmc]

44. she is making cash at some right wing DLC type place

i am sure (at least I think so)

[Perky]

45. You are not accusing the DLC of entrapping their own are you?

[mdmc]

48. taking care of their own

[kskiska]

82. She was in London getting a Masters

Lewinsky to study psychology at LSE

Wednesday September 7, 2005

Monica Lewinsky, who shot to fame as a White House intern under the US president Bill Clinton in the 1990s, is to study for a masters degree at the London School of Economics, the school confirmed today.

The MSc in social psychology includes specialist options in health, media, organisations, culture, technology, community, economic life and gender.

(snip)

But it is her academic ability that will have interested LSE. Apart from her unique life experiences, Ms Lewinsky will be building on her degree in psychology from Lewis and Clark College in Portland, Oregon, and is likely to be paying £12,000 for her British degree. She is expected to begin her degree next month.

more…
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168688,00.html

[kskiska]

80. Linda Tripp WAS in cahoots with the right wing

and she got the shaft, thankfully. She lost her cushy government job, and even her darling President Bush wouldn't hire her, much less anyone else.

Now she's married to a lederhosen-wearing sausage vender/shopkeeper and doesn't have to worry about a job.

[Penndems]

39. Well, according to Ann Coulter, Bill Clinton is gay

So that would mean that the claims by the right that he had sex with Monica Lewinsky are totally false, and the impeachment hearings were bogus, right? ;)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. Monica wasn't the problem - trying to cover it up was.

Instead of telling the media and the Repugs that his private life was none of their business and refuse to answer questions about it, he tried to cover it up.

[Perky]

47. covering it up was not the problem either

it was his testimony ib the Jones Deposition that was the problem. If he had been hoest ad admiteed that guilt to Starr he would have corroborated MOnica's view that it was not coerecive.

[RB TexLa]

49. He would be the only one responsible for what he did

[Xenotime]

50. It still is..

They can't go on TV without mentioning it. Everytime you hear Clinton's name mentioned, they mention Monika. They must have paid her good.

[Nye Bevan]

51. Several reasons why it was not a setup

First, why would anyone use Monica Lewinsky as bait, as opposed to more of a model type? Second, there would have been tape recordings, photos, and possibly videos, which would have been leaked to further embarrass Bill. Third, there wasn't even a reason to set him up-- apparently in the White House the majority of young female staffers practically throw themselves at the President; there would be no need to sneak in some kind of plant.

BTW I love Bill but I am convinced that if he had kept his pants zippered up on that fateful day, the war in Iraq would never have happened. The Lewinsky business resulted in Gore distancing himself from that master campaigner Bill Clinton during the 2000 election campaign; if he had not had to do this I am sure that he would have won a resounding victory. We would currently be halfway through the second term of the Gore presidency-- no war in Iraq, and probably no 9/11. (Of course on the negative side there would also be no DemocraticUnderground). Alternate history can be fascinating.

[Beelzebud]

52. In the old days, they assassinated. Now, Character Assassination.

[Hugin]

53. Oh, here we go... Discussing Lewinsky when there's a war on. AGAIN!

:eyes:

Hello? Is anyone paying attention?

The Bush Administration was asleep at the wheel... Summarily ignored anything and
anyone from the Clinton Administration. Lied. Cheated.

[onenote]

56. so all 9000 of your posts are about the war?

I'm impressed.

[Hugin]

59. Or about any of a number of other 'High Crimes or Misdemeanors'

Excepting this one.

It's nice to see everyone diving for the shiny diversion.

[onenote]

54. no: monica was being monica and bill was being bill

If the whole thing had been a set up and Lewinsky was part of it, she would've claimed that she was coerced. Now, once the story came out, the RW jumped on it to make it into something that it clearly wasn't, but the whole thing started because, simply put, Monica was being Monica and Bill was being Bill.

[sutz12]

55. IMO Lewinsky was a target of opportunity....

not a pre-determined conspiracy.

My gut tells me that Monica planned to do the dirty deeds, then wait a few years and write a tell all book. Sit back and collect the royalties. Life would be good.

But when the affair leaked out, the RWers forced the issue and turned it into the "scandal of the century." They still hate Clinton and the American people because he didn't falter and they didn't buy their bullshit. To them, sex outside of their narrowly defined limits is always the greatest crime, even greater than murder.

Remember that. Everything they say about Liberals is true of themselves. They say that Liberals hate America, when it is obvious from their actions that they are the ones who truly hate America and Americans.

[BurtWorm]

58. Of course it was.

I don't think Lewinsky was in on it. But once Linda Tripp discovered the affair, the conspiracy was on.

[nancyr]

61. I agree with you.

I've never known a woman who would preserve a semen stained dress just for sentimental reasons. There's something totally telling about that part of it. That's what washing machines and dry cleaners are for! Of course she was a part of it.

[Thirtieschild]

60. My take is - Monica went to D.C. with a blowjob in mind

I remember reading that she told an ex-lover that she was going to the White House to earn her kneepads. Don't know where I read it so can't offer a link. Maybe the comment was an urban myth, but it has the ring of truth.

And we all knew about BC and women when we elected him. I'd be surprised if, down deep, anyone was really surprised by Monica.

I still don't understand why they hate him so much. Because he had the audacity to beat 41???????????????

[aikoaiko]

64. deleted

argh, I meant to respond to the OP not the above post. Sorry.

[MorningGlow]

63. Absolutely, because of PNAC

Project for a New American Century sent a letter to Clinton, urging him to go to war with Iraq. He said "no thanks--the sanctions are working just fine" and that was all it took for them to decide to try to get him out of the way quickly (and discredit the entire Democratic party as well) instead of waiting for his term to run out so they could get in there and do whatever they wanted. Worked well, no?


January 26, 1998

The Honorable William J. Clinton
President of the United States
Washington, DC


Dear Mr. President:

We are writing you because we are convinced that current American policy toward Iraq is not succeeding, and that we may soon face a threat in the Middle East more serious than any we have known since the end of the Cold War. In your upcoming State of the Union Address, you have an opportunity to chart a clear and determined course for meeting this threat. We urge you to seize that opportunity, and to enunciate a new strategy that would secure the interests of the U.S. and our friends and allies around the world. That strategy should aim, above all, at the removal of Saddam Hussein’s regime from power. We stand ready to offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor....

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

[aikoaiko]

65. Nope, my favorite president give his enemies the ammo to nearly destroy

...his carreer and legacy.

No conspiracy. When handed the information on a silver platter, the republicans used it to their advantage visciously.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

67. Richard Mellon Scaife. End of story

Richard Mellon Scaife had the money (means), motive, and opportunity to go after the Clintons.
Hillary was not fantasizing about a vast right wing conspiracy, it kicked into gear the moment "no new taxes" GHW Bush lost in 1992.

[Odin2005]

71. Nah, Bill just got caught being human.

We all do dumb things regarding our personal lives, our leaders are no exception.

[Cathyclysmic]

72. It wasn't really much of a 'conspiracy,' if that's the case.

It was so obviously a political attack on Clinton.


I don't believe, however, that a tryst between Clinton and Lewinsky never happened, nor do I believe she was a plant from the get-go. Clinton screwed up the neocon agenda by getting elected and reelected, so they went after him at all costs.

[Vidar]

73. It certainly was as soon as Linda Tripp & Ken Starr were involved.

[Jacobin]

74. Has Everyone Forgotten the "Arkansas Project" Already?

[Dervill Crow]

75. I think so.

Not necessarily that it started out that way, and I didn't pay that much attention to it as it was unraveling, but the idea of Monica keeping the dress without cleaning it strikes me as just plain weird.

Ick.

If he wasn't set up, he set himself up for it and somebody knew how to get him.

[Yupster]

92. I knew a woman who

kept sheets unwashed for a month because she said she could still smell her ex who walked out on her.

When I heard about the dress, I could see it happening.

[moondust]

78. Scaife & Co.

These scoundrels with deadly malicious intent may not have planted Lewinsky but their DC spy networks certainly found and exploited her loose tongue and WH access.

[ComerPerro]

81. I don't think Monica was part of any conspiracy

I think she just was attracted to Bill (like a lot of women are) and probably was young and naive enough to think she could have a real relationship with him.

But the prosecution, the pursuit of Clinton by Starr and the Republicans, yes, it was a plan and I guess you could say "conspiracy" to unseat a very popular president.

They abused their power.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

84. I think everything but the affair itself (BC's own error) represented a

conspiracy. Meaning, BC had done this, and the wingers knew or suspected because of Goldberg getting the info from Lewinsky.

Everything else from Paula Jones and the lawsuit on a sitting president was designed to get Clinton on the stand, where questioning about Lewsinsky could be introduced, with the sole purpose of getting Clinton to lie about it, as most people would about an indiscretion like that, and then to pursue perjury charges and impeachment. In other words, they knew the Jones case was bogus but it was just a way to get to the Lewinsky/Ken Starr/impeachment scenario, the goal being to railroad BC out of office. They succeeded in hamstringing his administration and the American political process but not in their ultimate goal. It was a concerted effort, largely funded by fat cats like Richard Mellon Scaife, that included all kinds of elements like combing Arkansas looking for any kind of dirt, real or fake, to sling.

The single best description of this that I've read came from the inside, from David Brock's "Blinded by the Right":

http://www.amazon.com/Blinded-Right-Ex-Conservative-David-Brock/dp/1400047285/sr=1-1/qid=1159311625/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0931858-2694307?ie=UTF8&s=books

Brock was the formerly closeted RW sleaze merchant who was responsible for the "Troopergate" story, and subsequently recanted that phase of his career and runs the mediamatters.org website.

[Rockstone]

85. Lewinsky could have been a foreign agent

Does anyone know if she had any other foreign nationalistic ties?

Perhaps she was told to try to get in his pants and get something on him.

Lord knows they were dying for him to attack Iraq.

And wasn't she the one flashing her thong at him?

[Ignacio Upton]

87. No

The attacks from Starr were part of a witch-hunt, but Clinton could have backed off from Monica but didn't.

[TheWraith]

93. Depends on your range of conspiracy.

I don't think that Monica was a plant or anything like that. I think that it was just something that happened, as such things commonly do. However, the things which followed--the various investigators, the nonstop digging for anything they could use against him, and everything else, all funded and orchestrated by a handful of ultra-right-wing zealots, was pretty clearly a conspiracy in almost any sense of the word.

The most iron-clad evidence I can present is this: their dalliance happened in early 1995, but it didn't come out for years later. If she'd really been a plant, wouldn't they have wanted to get the information out sooner, to maybe help them win the '96 election?

[pitohui]

95. i don't believe monica knew it, but yes

all powerful men have groupies, * has his gannon, for instance, kennedy had his...many...but it's a choice of the media who to report on and who not to report on

i think monica was a young girl who wanted to get close to power, as young girls sometimes do, and who can really blame her

i would be very surprised to learn that she was paid to go after clinton, that i don't believe

what i do believe is clinton was attacked for doing what reagan and nancy reagan did every day of the week, what poppy bush did every day of the week, what * did every day of the week w. gannon, they pick and choose who to attack for being mortal flesh and blood

[raysr]

97. Lewinsky was a plant,

history will tell.

[B Calm]

102. If it wasn't Lewinski, it would have been something else. His legacy

will always be about a brave man that wouldn’t resign, but instead stood up and stared into the face of vindictive, corrupt, hypocritical, political right-wing smear mongers who tried and failed to undermine democracy!

[notadmblnd]

105. I've always believed that Monica was Clintons punishment..

for not going along with PNAC's program.