Logical Fallacies and the Art Of Debate

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

It seems the Neo-Cons have made Logical Fallacies an art form. We might as well know a bit about these and how to counter.

From the WebPage:

"So why learn logical fallacies at all?"

"I can think of a couple of good reasons. First, it makes you look smart. If you can not only show that the opposition has made an error in reasoning, but you can give that error a name as well (in Latin!), it shows that you can think on your feet and that you understand the opposition's argument possibly better than they do."

"Second, and maybe more importantly, pointing out a logical fallacy is a way of removing an argument from the debate rather than just weakening it. Much of the time, a debater will respond to an argument by simply stating a counterargument showing why the original argument is not terribly significant in comparison to other concerns, or shouldn't be taken seriously, or whatever. That kind of response is fine, except that the original argument still remains in the debate, albeit in a less persuasive form, and the opposition is free to mount a rhetorical offensive saying why it's important after all. On the other hand, if you can show that the original argument actually commits a logical fallacy, you put the opposition in the position of justifying why their original argument should be considered at all. If they can't come up with a darn good reason, then the argument is actually removed from the round."


http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html#The%20list%20of%20logical%20fallacies

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Fallacies are employed when you aren't likely to establish

the validity of your argument through deductive logic. Either you don't have the facts, you don't know how to use logic to make an argument, or you're just lazy. Fallacies are effective only if your opponent doesn't call you on them.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

3. Or the fallacies are 'established truths' in the general population

Isn't that the job of Fox News(infotainment)? <smile>

[Skidmore]

2. "I don't agree with your premise"....

just quoting about every neocon and neocon sympathizer on teevee when their assumptions are disputed.

:evilgrin:

[Hosnon]

24. Disagreement on a premise is not a question of logic - it's a question

of fact.

[Poll_Blind]

4. Studying logical fallacies is terribly important for everyone. (w/list)

  Logical fallacies are incredibly prevalent in human discourse. It not only helps one dissect (and potentially reject) an argument they disagree with but it also helps refine (and potentially reject) some of our own, more-closely-held, opinions on occasion. The result of this process is a clearer mind, clearer argument, and more solid thinking.

  Who says X-Ray specs don't exist? Check out this list (it's abbreviated and one of many you can find with Google) of logical fallacies. It's a knife to cut through the bullshit.

Right here

PB

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

9. Bookmarked! Thanks!

[madmusic]

29. Should be taught in all of high school.

But then teens would know when their parents and the government were full of shit.

edit: teens

[sam sarrha]

5. thank you all for the very important information.. nominated.. spread it

[Marie26]

6. Good post

I think Bush has used every one of these at one time or another.

[Jack Rabbit]

7. Bookmark this page

Please click http://www.fallacyfiles.org/">here.

I make frequent reference to it.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

8. Looks great too! Thanks !

[MallRat]

10. Learn logical fallacies in order to USE them. With impunity.

As is painfully clear, today's public discourse has no referee, no umpire... no judge to blow a whistle and disqualify a Presidential candidate for using a strawman or an empty ad hominem attack.

Real life is not a high school debate competition.

It's time to stop being so genteel. The days of Lincoln-Douglass are dead. We should be mercilessly USING these techniques instead of frantically trying to call the GOP on them.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

11. Don't you have to know what they are to use them?

I'm all for what your saying but then again two wrongs don't make a right, just because they do, is no free pass to do it.

Need to know the otherside and how they think/react or else they'll just turn on you and quote Logical Fallacies, so whereas it's NOT a High School debate with judges keeping score. If you play a little smarter and a little ahead of your opponent, you should do well.

Sinking to their level is just as bad as ad hominem'ing them... unless you're just interested in a good ol' mud rassle.

The problem is the opponent got the upper hand years ago and no one has been able to pin them to their rants & tactics.

[Jack Rabbit]

12. Actually, no, you don't have to know what they are to use them

Not knowing them makes it more likely that one will use them inadvertently. However, that's just a mistake.

The neocons are mostly Yale grads and ought to know very well what a logical fallacy is; when they use one, it is more likely a deliberate attmept at deception.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

16. I'm just trying to disarm the madmen of their weapons

So if Yale grads knowingly use false logic to win an argument, it's the LESS educated populace that allows it.
Isn't it time to wake up a few soldiers to defend the realm?

My pet saying about '70% of Americans fill-in-the-blank' especially on religious based issues...
I counter with 'The crowd called for Barabbas also, do you think the majority is always right?'

[Jack Rabbit]

17. Exactly

I believe Aristotelean logic should be taught in public schools along with algebra and geometry. That fact that most Americans learn formal reasoning through mathematics goes a long ways in explaning how a nation that can put a man on the moon would take any thing the neocons say seriously.

A nation in which a typical citizen is somebody who knows a bad argument when he hears one is the sort of place a democracy can thrive.

I like your example of the bandwagon fallacy (aka argumentum ad populum). I'll have to add it to my arsenal. Mine is to simply to assert that if a survey showed a majority of people believed the earth is flat, it wouldn't alter any facts to the contrary.

[TahitiNut]

13. Logical fallacies lead to BELIEVING FALSEHOODS!

That's the danger ... not some bullshit "win-lose" crap! I've not yet met a person whose skull was full of total garbage who didn't use fallacious garbage trucks to deliver and dump it.

Without the ability to reason validly, a person might as well be lobotomized.

[rudy23]

14. Yes, yes, yes! This is how they've brainwashed the 37%

into unreasonable stances. Just take a couple of logistic wrong turns, and you've lost 95% of America. You can't blame the people, they've got a lot of shit to do. They don't have time to examine every statement made by every member of the admin that they march out there.

Have you ever had an argument with a significant other who's skilled at twisting logic itself? You can argue for 5 years over 1+1 if they're good enough at it. When you consider the barrage of info we're hit with each day, most Americans don't have time to untangle the logic.

[rudy23]

15. My life got much better when I learned what a "strawman" was

All of a sudden I could see it so clearly. Probably half of the bullshit people were trying to pull over on me involved this tactic.

It's like wrestling. Every fallacy has a counter as well. Learn these, and we don't have to become pigs in order to wrestle with pigs. Just point out the fallacy, and do it in plain english so your constituency can see exactly how devious and desperate your opponent is.

[TahitiNut]

18. Here's the "Bible" ... "Introduction to Logic" by Irving Copi

http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Logic-12th-Irving-Copi/dp/0131898345/sr=1-1/qid=1159306064/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-5212659-1427801?ie=UTF8&s=books

If you can find an older edition in a used book store, buy it! If you can buy it used on Amazon with confidence, do so. This has been the "Bible" of logic and reasoning (a user's manual for the brain) for nearly 50 years.

Get it. Read it. Learn it.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

19. Sounds great! TY!

Added it to my wish list for the next Amazon order!

[TahitiNut]

21. It's the most popular text for Jesuit instructors for decades.

In the 60s and 70s, you'd have a hard time finding a Jesuit university (or many secular ones, for that matter) not using it as the required text for their beginning Logic course(s). I didn't know of any of my fellow students who'd even sell theirs in those days.

As a Math undergraduate and CompSci graduate student, it was the single most essential course I ever had ... and Copi's textbook (then in its 2nd and 3rd editions) was precious to me.

[Hosnon]

20. I took Symbolic Logic in college...most life-altering class I've ever

taken. It's similar to taking off blinders - you realize that most "arguments" people make are fallacious.

I agree with another poster: This should be taught right after learning to speak. It will be high on the list of priorities to teach my kids.

1. Walk
2. Talk
3. Read
4. Logic

Edit: I kept the textbook and have it on my coffee-table.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

25. Unfortunately, religion is based on acceptance without logic

And this Third Awakening is seemingly trying to take away independent thought.
The attack on the intelligentsia, intellectuals, universities, science, media, etc. is to discredit anything that might counter religious dogma. Act without questioning...

What does it serve you to gain wisdom but lose your place in heaven?

Honor thy mother & father.

Give unto Caesar

You say that I am.




After all, it was the Tree of KNOWLEDGE that wasn't supposed to eaten from.

[Hosnon]

28. Yes it's a shame that religion is, in some sense, defined opposite to

logic.

I usually just tell Christians that God would not give us anything he did not want us to use; God gave us reason; therefore God wants us to use reason.

Has some error (not logically airtight) but gets to the point.

[Rex]

22. The 3 anchors of the BFEE.

Ignore conflict of interest
Replace regulations with Cronyism.
Sing perfection, always.

All three of those will destroy a nation if used long enough.

[Hosnon]

23. I would like to point out that logic is just one component when one is

attempting to CONVINCE someone else of something.

A charismatic politician spouting logical fallacies can easily trounce a wooden logician.

In the world of politics, the goal is to convince people to believe you - arguing logically is only one factor in that equation.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

26. The website pointed that fact out as well

Even said to USE fallacies to gain ground on your oppenent but to use them wisely and know how to counter the counter.

[Hosnon]

27. Right...also, one of the biggest fallacies is refutation by reference to

a fallacy.

Pointing out that a debater has employed a logical fallacy DOES NOT NECESSARILY mean that the debater is not right, simply that the "knowledge" is not justified in any way.