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Who do you believe? Condi or Clarke on the lost 8 months before 9-11

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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 03:14 PM
Original message
Who do you believe? Condi or Clarke on the lost 8 months before 9-11
Today, the cable "news" stations are reporting on an interview Condoleezza Rice gave to the powerhouse national security experts at the NY Post. Like any liar, Condi now is trapped by her past mendacity, as recorded in forms that cannot now easily be changed by White House clean-up crews. The most readable summary I could find is

(1) an op-ed Condi published in the Washington Post two weeks before her very limited 9-11 Commission testimony, on April 8 2004.

But Richard Clarke testified before the 9-11 Commission for 15 hours, and directly contradicted what Condi continues to repeat.

What do you believe, Condi's undocumented assertions that there was no plan, or documentation of a plan (pdf link to a draft of it below) Richard Clarke presented to Condi on January 25 2001?

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(1) From http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A13881-2004Mar21?language=printer :

"9/11: For The Record By Condoleezza Rice Monday, March 22, 2004; Page A21

"The al Qaeda terrorist network posed a threat to the United States for almost a decade before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Throughout that period -- during the eight years of the Clinton administration and the first eight months of the Bush administration prior to Sept. 11 -- the U.S. government worked hard to counter the al Qaeda threat.

During the transition, President-elect Bush's national security team was briefed on the Clinton administration's efforts to deal with al Qaeda. The seriousness of the threat was well understood by the president and his national security principals. In response to my request for a presidential initiative, the counterterrorism team, which we had held over from the Clinton administration, suggested several ideas, some of which had been around since 1998 but had not been adopted. No al Qaeda plan was turned over to the new administration.

We adopted several of these ideas. We committed more funding to counterterrorism and intelligence efforts. We increased efforts to go after al Qaeda's finances. We increased American support for anti-terror activities in Uzbekistan. We pushed hard to arm the Predator unmanned aerial vehicle ... We also considered a modest spring 2001 increase in funding for the Northern Alliance. ...

The president wanted more than a laundry list of ideas simply to contain al Qaeda or "roll back" the threat. Once in office, we quickly began crafting a comprehensive new strategy to "eliminate" the al Qaeda network. The president wanted more than occasional, retaliatory cruise missile strikes. He told me he was "tired of swatting flies." Through the spring and summer of 2001, the national security team developed a strategy to eliminate al Qaeda -- which was expected to take years. Our strategy marshaled all elements of national power to take down the network, not just respond to individual attacks with law enforcement measures. ..."

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(2) From http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/index.htm :

"The National Security Archive

Bush Administration's First Memo on al-Qaeda Declassified

January 25, 2001 Richard Clarke Memo: "We urgently need . . . a Principals level review on the al Qida network."

Document Central to Clarke-Rice Dispute on Bush Terrorism Policy Pre-9/11 National Security Archive

Electronic Briefing Book No. 147 Edited by Barbara Elias February 10, 2005

"Washington, D.C., February 10, 2005 - The National Security Archive today posted the widely-debated, but previously unavailable, January 25, 2001, memo from counterterrorism coordinator Richard Clarke to national security advisor Condoleezza Rice - the first terrorism strategy paper of the Bush administration. The document was central to debates in the 9/11 hearings over the Bush administration's policies and actions on terrorism before September 11, 2001. Clarke's memo requests an immediate meeting of the National Security Council's Principals Committee to discuss broad strategies for combating al-Qaeda by giving counterterrorism aid to the Northern Alliance and Uzbekistan, expanding the counterterrorism budget and responding to the U.S.S. Cole attack. Despite Clarke's request, there was no Principals Committee meeting on al-Qaeda until September 4, 2001. ...

Two days after Rice's March 22 op-ed, Clarke told the 9/11 Commission, "there's a lot of debate about whether it's a plan or a strategy or a series of options -- but all of the things we recommended back in January were those things on the table in September. They were done. They were done after September 11th. They were all done. I didn't really understand why they couldn't have been done in February."

Also attached to the original Clarke memo are two Clinton-era documents relating to al-Qaeda. The first, "Tab A December 2000 Paper ( http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/clarke%20attachment.pdf ) : Strategy for Eliminating the Threat from the Jihadist Networks of al-Qida: Status and Prospects," was released to the National Security Archive along with the Clarke memo. "Tab B, September 1998 Paper: Pol-Mil Plan for al-Qida," also known as the Delenda Plan, was attached to the original memo, but was not released to the Archive and remains under request with the National Security Council.

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(3) See also vyan's EXCELLENT link-annotated transcript of the 9/24/06 Fox News Sunday interview of Bill Clinton. The links above are the fruit of click-thrus of Vyan's links, at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2842346 .
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Clarke gave many more details about 2000-2001 antiterror activities
preceding 9-11 in a LONG March '04 "New Yorker" interview:

From http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/030804fa_fact :

'Clinton secretly approved additional Presidential findings, authorizing the killing not just of bin Laden but also of several of his top lieutenants, and permitting any private planes or helicopters carrying them to be shot down. These directives led to nothing. The C.I.A. was unable to carry out the mission, Clarke said. They hired local Afghans to do it for them again. The agency also tried to train and equip a Pakistani commando force and some Uzbeks, too. The point is, they were risk-averse, he said. Tenet was eager to kill bin Laden, Clarke said. He understood the threat. But the capability of the C.I.A.s Directorate of Operations was far less than advertised. The Directorate of Operations would like people to think its a great James Bond operation, but for years it essentially assigned officers undercover as diplomats to attend cocktail parties. They collected information. But they were not a commando unit that could go into Afghanistan and kill bin Laden. ...

Clarke said that in October, 2000, when the U.S.S. Cole was bombed, off the coast of Yemen, Clinton demanded better military options. The Department of Defense prepared a plan for a United States military operation so big that it was dismissed as politically untenable; meanwhile, General Hugh Shelton, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, concluded that, without better intelligence, a smaller-scale attack would be too risky. ... The Navy tried stationing two submarines in the Indian Ocean, in the hope of being able to shoot missiles at bin Laden, but the time lag between the sighting of the target and the arrival of the missiles made it virtually impossible to pinpoint him accurately.

The first promise of an intelligence breakthrough came in the fall of 2000, when Clarke, and a few allies in the C.I.A. and the military, recognized the potential of the Predator, a nine-hundred-and-fifty-pound unmanned propeller plane being tested by General Johnny Jumper, the Air Forces head of air combat at the time. It could supply live video surveillanceday or night, and through cloud cover. Clarke said that the plane, which was tested in Afghanistan, supplied spectacular pictures of suspected Al Qaeda terrorists, including one of a tall, white-robed man who closely resembled bin Laden and was surrounded by security guards as he crossed a city street to a mosque. At the C.I.A.s Global Response Center, analysts who were used to receiving fuzzy satellite photographs and thirdhand reports were now able to watch as live video feeds captured the daily routines inside Al Qaeda training camps. They watched as men did physical exercises, fired their weapons, and practiced hand-to-hand combat. Two or three times that fall, intelligence analysts thought they might have spotted bin Laden himself. The man in question was unusually tall, like bin Laden, and drove the same model of truck that bin Laden preferred, the Toyota Land Cruiser. (The images werent clear enough, however, to allow analysts to discern facial features.) The C.I.A. rushed the surveillance tapes over to the White House, where the President, like everyone else, was stunned by their clarity. Later that fall, however, fierce winds in the Hindu Kush caused the Predator to crash. The accident led to recriminations inside the C.I.A. and the Air Force and quarrels about which part of the bureaucracy should pay for the damage.

By early 2001, Clarke and a handful of counter-terrorism specialists at the C.I.A. had learned of an Air Force plan to arm the Predator. The original plan called for three years of tests. Clarke and the others pushed so hard that the plane was ready in three months. In tests, the craft worked surprisingly well. In the summer of 2001, an armed Predator destroyed a model of bin Ladens house which had been built in the Nevada desert. But Clarke said, Every time we were ready to use it, the C.I.A. would change its mind. The real motivation within the C.I.A., I think, is that some senior people below Tenet were saying, Its fine to kill bin Laden, but we want to do it in a way that leaves no fingerprints. Otherwise, C.I.A. agents all over the world will be subject to assassination themselves. They also worried that something would go wrongtheyd blow up a convent and get blamed.'

On September 4, 2001, all sides agree, the issue reached a head, at a meeting of the Principals Committee of Bushs national-security advisers, a Cabinet-level group that includes the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, the director of the C.I.A., the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Attorney General, and the national-security adviser. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz also attended that day. As Clarke, who was there, recalled, Tenet said he opposed using the armed Predator, because it wasnt the C.I.A.s job to fly airplanes that shot missiles. The Air Force said it wasnt their job to fly planes to collect intelligence. No one around the table seemed to have a can-do attitude. Everyone seemed to have an excuse. There was a discussion, the senior intelligence official confirmed. The C.I.A. said, Whos got more experience flying aircraft that shoot missiles? But the Air Force liked planes with pilots.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. It seems to me Clarke has been steadfast in his statements...
Whereas, Condi seems to waver in what she has said, creating a kind of truth du jour environment.

I could be wrong, though...
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Keith Olberman's Wednesday show will be devoted to the lost 8
months. I wonder wheter he'll get into who kept whose story straight about that time. I suspect Condi has been the most consistent, because she's had much less exposure to inquisitive smart people on the issue of the pre-9-11 Bush antiterror record.
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. .
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chat_noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. keep digging..
Edited on Tue Sep-26-06 04:01 PM by chat_noir
Newsweek reported that "In the months before 9/11, the U.S. Justice Department curtailed a highly classified program called 'Catcher's Mitt' to monitor al-Qaida suspects in the United States."

Additionally, AP reported "though Predator drones spotted Osama bin Laden as many as three times in late 2000, the Bush administration did not fly the unmanned planes over Afghanistan during its first eight months," thus terminating the reconnaissance missions started during the Clinton Administration.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040321/nysu007a_1.html; AP, 6/25/03 [br />http://www.helenair.com/articles/2003/06/25/national_top/a01062503_04...]


Nearly a dozen current and former senior U.S. officials described to AP the extensive discussions in 2000 and 2001 inside the Clinton and Bush administrations about using an armed Predator to kill bin Laden. Most spoke only on condition of anonymity, citing the classified nature of the information.

These officials said that within days of President Bush taking office in January 2001, his top terrorism expert on the National Security Council, Richard Clarke, urged National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice to resume the drone flights to track down bin Laden, citing the successes of late 2000.

The drones were one component of a broader plan that Clarke, a career government employee, had devised in the final days of the Clinton administration to go after al-Qaida after the October 2000 bombing of the USS Cole. Clinton officials decided just before Christmas 2000 to forward the plan to the incoming Bush administration rather than implement it during Clinton's final days, the officials said.




CLAIM by Rice: "We moved quickly to arm Predator unmanned surveillance vehicles for action against al-Qaida."

FACT: According to AP, "the military successfully tested an armed Predator throughout the first half of 2001" but the White House "failed to resolve a debate over whether the CIA or Pentagon should operate the armed Predators" and the armed Predator never got off the ground before 9/11.

more here: http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=44887




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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. You're no slouch yourself--great links! Did you notice from post #1
Clarke's explanation why the UNARMED Predator Clinton deployed NEVER flew under Dubya. An apparently incompetent operator crashed it, and then the CIA and Air Force argued for a year over who should pay to replace it! Simply incredible incompetence on Condi's part, IMO.
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Remember the CONTEST 30 months ago when Condi was spreading
the same lies she's spreading this week. It was run by the Center for American Progress, whose website you cited above. Did anyone ever win the Sean Hannity book, or the James Carville book that was added to the prize?

I could find only two mentions of the contest on the CAP website:

From http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=39854 :

"CONTEST: Beat the Progress Report

by David Sirota, Christy Harvey and Judd Legum

March 25, 2004

Yesterday, on Hannity and Colmes, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice said "the assertion that somehow the Bush administration wasn't paying attention when we came into office is just false." But, despite Rice's comments, we were unable to find a single instance where Rice, Vice President Cheney or President Bush said "al Qaeda" or "bin Laden" in public between Bush Inauguration and 9/11. ...

Prove you're better than the Progress Report! Send any instance of Rice, Cheney or Bush uttering the words "al Qaeda" or "bin Laden" in public between 1/20/01 and 9/10/01 to pr@americanprogress.org. The first person to submit a successful entry (which we can verify) will receive a free copy of "Deliver Us From Evil" by Fox News Anchor Sean Hannity signed by the members of the Progress Report team."

And, from http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=39856 :

"March 26, 2004 Progress Report Contest Update

No winners yet, but political strategist James Carville has sweetened the pot. Yesterday on CNN's Crossfire, Carville promised a copy of his book to the first person to win the "Beat the Progress Report" contest by finding proof of President Bush, Vice President Cheney or National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice saying the words "al Qaeda" or "bin Laden" between the time they took office and 9/10/01. (You can watch the video of Carville's announcement yesterday on Crossfire.) There's still time to play - submit your entries to pr@progressreport.org."
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. I would agree with 9-11 commission Report (Clark)
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. On 9/11, didn't Condi take a vantage point from under her desk?
I think it should tell you everything you need to know that:

(1) Before 9/11, she demoted Richard Clarke; and,

(2) When the shit hit the fan on 9/11 she quickly yielded all the power back to him.

What that tells me is, that they were doing things prior to 9/11 that they KNEW Richard Clarke would not approve of, so they shelved him where he couldn't see them operating.
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. That's a great point. She had found no replacement for Clarke,
she just downgraded the whole antiterror operation.

IMO, that must have been because her very fresh charge from those who's hired her did not mention antiterrorism. IMO it must have dealt with "energy security", tie-ins with Cheney's secret Energy Task Force, implementing the Star Wars boondoggle, and other high priorities from big corporate contributors.

IMO, at that time, no bit corporation yet had figured out how to make billions in taxparyer dollars from "Homeland Security".
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-27-06 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Good point on your part. They not only downgraded Richard Clarke,
but in doing so without finding an adequate replacement, they downgraded the entire anti-terror department.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. Bush was right!
Edited on Tue Sep-26-06 09:20 PM by MethuenProgressive
I mean just *look* at all those commas!
:sarcasm:
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. that's a no-brainer
i don't think she even lies well. it truly boggles my mind to admit that she seems to enjoy quite a bit of support. an absolute skank murderous criminal whore to the bushies she deserves prison just as much as any of them
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. Condi is a pathological liar
She got into trouble for lying before she was tapped by Bush - he must have loved the fact that she was already a known liar.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-27-06 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. WE knew she lied. Bill knew. Why did Hillary vote YES to confirm Condi in
2005?

Obviously the Clintons knew Condi lied every time she spoke at a 9-11 hearing, and at her confirmation hearing, yet Hillary voted FOR her confirmation as Sec of State. Why?

And why didn't the Clintons speak out against the lies that were being told for YEARS about the balance of responsibility and blame? They should have answered the lies back then instead of giving such solid support for the WH tha cranked up the lie machine.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-27-06 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
14. George was on vacation for three of those months: res ipsa loquitur
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-27-06 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
15. Rice is a war criminal, like the rest of the trash in charge.
nt
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tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-27-06 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
16. Condi="sophisticated" Neocon-intellectual: "end justifies means+noble lie"
Edited on Wed Sep-27-06 04:06 AM by tiptoe
She needs be investigated for treason...for LIHOP, minimally.

Let her reap of the lies her neocon ilk so "boldly" sowed.
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