'Clinton bombed an asperin factory and a few empty tents in

[HuskerDU]

the desert.' IIRC this was a Repub talking point back in '98 claiming Wag the Dog.

Seems to me that an asperin factory could've been used to make chem weapons and that a few empty tents in the desert could've been a terrorist training camp. If this can be verified, maybe we could throw it in their faces.

R's tried to stop Clinton from fighting terrorism then, and now claim that he did nothing. Typical.

[rockyandmax]

1. I don't understand. See this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2232682

Which is right?

[niyad]

3. welcome to DU!!

[HuskerDU]

5. What is true is that R's are now saying that Clinton did nothing

about terrorism. Unfactual.

And for every Newt, there are 1,000 Freepers who said that Clinton wagged the dog then, and now say that he did nothing about terrorism.

[magellan]

8. The quote in the OP became the wingnut chant

They thought Clinton was wagging the dog to distract everyone from the Repug-manufactured Lewinsky scandal. They were too busy enjoying the circus in DC to believe some robed dude named bin Laden posed any threat. Oh, there was much fretting and hand-wringing over the welfare of our troops too, because Clinton was putting them in "unnecessary danger".

Welcome to DU!

[enki23]

14. both are

of course the public pronouncements of *elected republicans* were in favor of the bombings. republicans *always* have to be in favor of bombings, on principle. most democrats are, as well. go back to the iraq invasion, and you'll see all sorts of elected democrat boilerplate praising bush and his bold fucking defense of the united states. the one thing both sides really do have in common is moral (electoral) fucking cowardice.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

2. Traces of chemical weapons were found

in the street outside the factory. Unfortunately I don't have a source handy, but I read that somewhere within the past month.


And like Clinton said: AT LEAST HE TRIED.

[TexasProgresive]

12. From the 911 Commission Report

From the 911 Commission Report – bottom of page 117 to top of 118
(fingerboned by me because the pdf does not allow copying.)

"Ever since March 1995, American officials had in the backs of their minds Aum Shinrikyo’s release of sarin nerve gas in the Tokyo subway. President Clinton himself had expressed great concern about chemical and biological terrorism in the United States. Bin Ladin had reportedly been heart to speak of wanting a “Hiroshima” and at least 10,000 causalities. The CIA reported that a soil sample from the vicinity of the al Shifa plant had tested positive for EMPTA, a precursor chemical for VS, a nerve gas whose lone use was for mass killing. Two days before the embassy bombings, Clarke’s staff wrote that Bin Ladin “has invested in and almost certainly has access to BX produced at a plant in Sudan."

BTW- The report is amazingly easy to read for a government report. It is online as a pdf if you can read that much on screen. Chapters 4 and 11 are both germain to the debate about what Clinton knew and did and what Bush knew and did (not) do.

[LSK]

19. link here

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch4.htm

It is an easy read.

[TexasProgresive]

21. Thank you, thank you, thank you

Since that HTML you can copy and paste. Sure beats me fingerboning since I am an abysmal typist.

[wakeme2008]

4. The CIA stated the "Aspirin" factory test positive for chems.

and oh by the way, the manager of the "Aspirin" factory lived in a house owned by Bin Forgotten

[EarthNeedsHope]

6. I can't believe DU is justifying the Sudan bombings to defend Clinton

Just because the GOP is bringing out tired talking point doesn't mean you have to rationalize horrid things like the bombing of a factory that made half the pharmaceutical supplies of Sudan -- leading possibly to the deaths of thousands of children (far worse than 9/11).

Honestly, I can't stand partisan hackery that turns into rationalizing terror.

[HuskerDU]

7. Gosh I had no idea. I just remember R's using that talking

point back in the day.

'Clinton wags dog to deflect from scandal' '98
'Clinton did nothing to stop terrorism' '06

One of 'em can't be true.

[ProfessorGAC]

10. Sorry. You're Wrong

It did not make half the pharmaceuticals for that country. It was not that advanced and the output was very poor. It was a front to funnel al Qaeda money around the world. It was not making useful goods for the Sudanese poor.
The Professor

[EarthNeedsHope]

13. Well, I have a reliable source

This letter exchange between Chomsky and Hitchens for example, which is carefully source referenced:

http://www.zmag.org/chomskyhitchens.htm

[LSK]

16. the sources are newspaper articles

What is the source of the newspaper articles?

[ProfessorGAC]

17. It Isn't That Carefully Sourced

I've been a consultant to the chemical industry for nearly 30 years. I've got the photos of that plant, before and after the attack. It's simply not big enough to support that contention. I've been in pharma plants, and facilities twice that size couldn't supply the lion's share of pharmaceuticals to a country that large.

Secondly, the long range shots show highly minimal distribution channels. So, their capacity was insufficient, and the distribution was inadequate.

The "supply to the majority" is a right wing lie, that you're two references believed, with no deeper expertise in industry to support it. They're wrong.

Believe them if you wish. No damage done to me. I'm just telling you that my experience says that what they believe just can't be true.
The Professor

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. It was a CIA mistake.

The CIA had a mole in the plant taking soil samples. The CIA took the samples to one of their labs, found traces of chemical weapons production. The CIA told Clinton it was a chemical weapons plant.

[fed-up]

23. Clinton never should have trusted the CIA-I think he was set up n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

9. It Wasn't A Factory For Chemical Weapons

Of course, any industrial chemistry equipment can be used for that, but the real reason that factory was bombed was that it was the money funneling route for al Qaeda. This has never been, of course, admitted to by the gov't, either then or now. But, this has been speculated upon by reporters here and in Britain for several years, and not one gov't official has ever denied or refuted it.

But, i've always accepted this theory, because there isn't a whole lot of value for an aspirin factory that small in a country as populated as Sudan. And, given where it was, the distribution network would have been almost non-existent. So, i've always believed the reports that it was bombed because it was being used to channel money around and "launder" it to look like "legitimate" business transactions. Al Qaeda cannot use banks. It's too easy to trace the cash.

But, that factory didn't have the storage facilities needed to store the basic raws to make chemical weapons. It could have been fitted for that, but the pressure tanks and isolation valving did not exist. One could tell just from the photos of the plant.
The Professor

[PaulaFarrell]

24. YOu can tell all that from a photo?

This site has a lot of information on the subject:

http://www.intellnet.org/documents/800/050/850.htm?PHPSESSID=5528f09635146e39c192063b2aea4618

...

Whether or not CW-related activities took place at Shifa, it is now clear that at least most of the facilities' operations involved production of commercial pharmaceuticals, a fact that senior U.S. decisionmakers were apparently unaware of when they targeted the site. Shifa was reportedly the largest of six pharmaceutical plants in Khartoum, employing over 300 workers and producing dozens of medicinal products.<32> Twelve of these were for veterinary use, including an anti-parasitic that played an important role in sustaining Sudan's livestock production. Shifa's human medicines—including drugs for treating malaria, diabetes, hypertension, ulcers, rheumatism, gonorrhea, and tuberculosis—were widely available in Khartoum pharmacies.<33> The factory supplied 50 to 60 percent of Sudan's pharmaceutical needs, as well as exporting products abroad.<34>

After the U.S. air strike, news reports from the site and interviews with plant officials, local doctors, and foreigners involved in the construction and operation of the facility confirmed that it produced antibiotics, pain relievers, drugs for treating malaria and tuberculosis, and veterinary medicines.<35> NBC Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Bob Arnot personally inspected the rubble of the Shifa plant two days after the attack. He examined the plant's hand-written plant logs, assembly lines, and associated machinery, and observed thousands of packages and bottles in the remains of the plant. Arnot concluded that while this evidence did not prove that the plant only produced medicines, it did demonstrate that the plant produced antibiotics and tuberculosis drugs on a large scale.<36>

Shifa's pharmaceutical production was known to at least one part of the U.S. government. U.S. officials at the United Nations had approved the sale of medicines produced by Shifa.<37> In January 1998, the factory won a $199,000 contract to ship 100,000 cartons of Shifazole veterinary medicine to Iraq, as part of the U.N. oil-for-food program. According to Shifa export manager Dr. Alamaddin Shibli, the shipment was to be sent to Iraq in October 1998. Shibli also said that the factory had recently begun exporting medicine to Yemen, and it was scheduled to ship veterinary medicine to Chad by September 1998.<38>

...

[pk_du]

11. Never forget - WJC didnt pick targets - that was the job of this

guy...



A Republican tool if ever there was one..

[lonestarnot]

15. cough! gag!

:puke: Next time post a warning! :sarcasm:

[LSK]

18. On one hand Clinton bombed an "innocent" factory in Sudan

but then on the other hand, Sudan "had" Osama bin Ladin during that time.

So how is it that hard of a stretch that the chemical factory was connected to Al Queda???

[cynatnite]

20. Damn it, Clinton should have bombed innocents like bush does.

:sarcasm: