most US pro golfers are neo cons - EU and Intl. golfers are pissed off

[donsu]

http://ww1.theherald.co.uk/sport/70559-print.shtml

Playing the patriot game


-snip-

Simply put, many Europeans and other international players are put off by the overwhelming number of American PGA Tour players who identify themselves as George Bush-loving Republicans who support the US occupation of Iraq.
Geoff Ogilvy, the affable and well-read Australian who won the US Open and has lived in Arizona with his Texan wife for four years, says: "A lot of their conservative views are way off the map . . . I think George Bush is a bit dangerous. I think the world is scared while he's in office, there's less tolerance of diversity over here people have more blind faith in their government." Various Europeans have hinted that they have similar views, but say privately they'll be crucified in American locker rooms and newspapers if they publicly oppose Bush, his fundamentalist Christian agenda or the Iraq war.
"That's the new way of American censorship," said Jesper Parnevik, as he baked on the driving range in Fort Worth. "People get hurt very badly if they speak out."

-snip-

But there is definitely a sizeable and often vocal element among the Americans that follows politics, advocates right-wing Republican policies – tax cuts for the rich, corporate welfare, pro death penalty, anti-gay marriage, anti-labour unions – and increasingly, identifies with evangelical Christian ideology.

-snip-

George Bush, who campaigned for office as a born-again Christian, is the icon of the evangelical movement and once famously told a group of Amish farmers: "I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job."
Not coincidentally, the American pro golf world, which has been heavily influenced by corporate America and Republican politics for at least 30 years, now has such a strong element of Christian fundamentalists that the entire Ryder Cup leadership – Tom Lehman, Corey Pavin and Loren Roberts – are all self-professed born-again Christians. Roberts was even converted and baptised at a tournament.

-snip-

There are now official chaplains and weekly Bible study groups, or "fellowships," on each of the four American pro tours, and various players either display the Christian fish symbol on their golf bag or wear a popular cloth bracelet that says 'WWJD'
"It's not seen as so strange anymore for a player to be open about his faith," former tour pro Bobby Clampett told Golf World. "They're no longer called The God Squad or Jesus Freaks like we were 20 years ago. Now it's cool."

-snip-

"I think a lot of Europeans find that conservative Christian thing as frightening as conservative Muslims," he said. "If you find any European pros who are in that Bible-thumping category, it's usually because they've been to the United States."
-snip-
------------------------------

pardon me while I puke into their golf bags

[sutz12]

1. Methinks they would be better off with a WWTD wrist band.

Jesus was a 9 handicap. :)

[tularetom]

2. Now I know why I'm always rooting for John Daly

A flawed human being perhaps, but genuine, not a plastic person like most of today's multigazillionaire, spoiled, whiny pro golfers.

[Finder]

3. As long as neocons are interpreted as being conservative Christians...

they will never be removed from policy making.

[spoony]

7. The article played right into that

It explicitly equated "born-again"--which is a religious term not a political one--with neo-con--which is a political term not a religious one. They lumped every Bible-reader on the tour in with the * loving jerks.

We must separate these idiots from the religious cloak they hide beneath, not glue it on.

[H2O Man]

8. Right.

Neoconservatism is distinct from conservative Christianity. It's important to use words correctly.

[ComerPerro]

22. neocon, conservative Christian, Republican, its all the same

the differences are minor, if they even exist at all.

It all depends on the label they want to assign themselves.

But they all stand for pretty much the same thing.


The divisions were invented by the conservatives, to try and separate minor differences in their views. That way, people could say, "But, no, see, I'm not a neo-Con, I'm a paleo-Conservative".

Its all semantic bullshit.

Don't get caught up in it

[Finder]

23. Actually, no they don't...

thus the problem of fighting them(with credibility)for those on our side who have bought into the whole "us vs them","black/white" mentality.

[ComerPerro]

26. Ah, but they do

the thing you have to remember is that they all believe that private enterprise can solve problems more effectively than the government.

That means, no matter what they call themselves, they all would pretty much support reducing the federal government to a size where you could "drown it in a bathtub", to paraphrase.

They would all work to cut things like Welfare, student aid, government regulation of utilities, the SEC, environmental standards, etc.


The differences are mostly illusions.

[Finder]

30. Well wanting a smaller government isn't necessarily a bad thing...

and neocons hardly hold that view.

[ComerPerro]

31. Well, that's because you can't actually put it into practice

NeoCons is the word that Conservatives invented for Conservatives who are in power.

NeoCons embrace spending (on Conservative approved items), deficits (conservatives don't care about deficits), and large government.

But that is because it is impossible to impliment Conservative policies. You cannot hold power while reducing the size of government.

When Conservatives say they want a small government, they really mean they want to eliminate social spending. And Neocons are doing a good job of that.


Basically, what you are seeing is Conservatives making excuses, and creating new "breeds" of conservatives so they can cover their own ass.

[Finder]

33. Neocons are former liberals...

who have a socialist bent.

I agree with your holding power comment though.

[ComerPerro]

34. I don't buy into that either

because I have never seen examples of it.

I'd even go as far as to say that the whole "NeoCons are former liberals" is just even more BS made up by the RW to explain away the spending of neocons, and to further attack liberalism.

[Finder]

35. It is no big secret and one only needs to research...

a bit on Straussian philosophy to understand where they are coming from.

[ComerPerro]

36. honestly, what evidence do you have that they are former liberals

[Finder]

38. In their own words...

Kristol discusses neoconservatism in this article.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?idArticle=3000&R=785F27881

EXCERPT:
Even I, frequently referred to as the "godfather" of all those neocons, have had my moments of wonderment. A few years ago I said (and, alas, wrote) that neoconservatism had had its own distinctive qualities in its early years, but by now had been absorbed into the mainstream of American conservatism. I was wrong, and the reason I was wrong is that, ever since its origin among disillusioned liberal intellectuals in the 1970s, what we call neoconservatism has been one of those intellectual undercurrents that surface only intermittently. It is not a "movement," as the conspiratorial critics would have it. Neoconservatism is what the late historian of Jacksonian America, Marvin Meyers, called a "persuasion," one that manifests itself over time, but erratically, and one whose meaning we clearly glimpse only in retrospect.

[ComerPerro]

40. Conservative propagandist Irving Kristol? Of course he is gonna say that

[Selatius]

60. Wolfowitz and some others were Democrats who became Repubs

They didn't care for the free-love New Leftism of the 1960s with the sex, drugs, and music, and they were staunch anti-communists. Their outlook was socially liberal; they frankly couldn't give a crap about social issues like abortion or homosexuality, but they advocated going full-bore against Stalinism, and they condemned the New Left and the side of the Democratic Party that did not support involvement in Viêtnam.

They were NOT socialists at all as far as I know. None of them were. They were just hardliners who switched parties because the Democrats were on the losing side of history for the last 30 years. They went where the power went: The Republicans.

They are called "Mayberry Machiavellis" for a reason owing to the fact that Leo Strauss drew heavily from Machiavelli. Richard Perle himself was dubbed "The Prince of Darkness" in the 1980s by more moderate elements of the Reagan Administration for advocating a frontal confrontation with the Soviet Union. He wanted the US to lay all the cards on the table and have a pounding match with the Soviet Union.

[ComerPerro]

62. Prove that they were ever liberal

[Selatius]

63. They were not liberal at all by 2000s standards

They were liberal by 1950s/1960s standards.

[ComerPerro]

64. According to who?

[Selatius]

65. Well, here's William Kristol's words on the issue:

“But it is only to a degree that neocons are comfortable in modern America. The steady decline in our democratic culture, sinking to new levels of vulgarity, does unite neocons with traditional conservatives—though not with those libertarian conservatives who are conservative in economics but unmindful of the culture. The upshot is a quite unexpected alliance between neocons, who include a fair portion of secular intellectuals, and religious traditionalists. They are united on issues concerning the quality of education, the relations of church and state, the regulation of pornography, and the like, all of which they regard as proper candidates for the government’s attention. And since the Republican party now has a substantial base among the religious, this gives neocons a certain influence and even power. Because religious conservatism is so feeble in Europe, the neoconservative potential there is correspondingly weak.”

[ComerPerro]

66. Oh, well, a neoconservative said so. Then it must be true

If a neoCon told you there were WMD in Iraq, would you believe him?

[Selatius]

68. You confuse politics with empiricism

WMDs either exist or don't exist. Political issues and ideology aren't so black and white; it's shades of gray.

[ComerPerro]

70. Here's my point: I contend that there is no difference

between Conservatives and NeoCons, and I doubt that they were ever liberal.

The only evidence that they were liberal is their own testimony, which has proven to be suspect by their past lies.


Additionally, I contend that the whole image of "NeoCons" was created by conservatives to accomplish two main goals...

It could serve as a way to make excuses for conservatives who fail to accomplish conservative goals, such as lowering taxes for ALL, balancing the budget, cutting spending, and reducing the size of government. None of these goals are actually possible, but rather than have the Conservative ideolgy exposed as the lie it is, they have simply said "These people aren't 'True Conservatives', they are NeoCons."

Second, it is a way to attack liberalism. "Well, Bush isn't a true conservative. He spends too much, and makes government bigger, and goes into deficit. But that's cause he is a NeoCon, and used to be liberal. So, what we are seeing now is his liberalism on display".



All it amounts to is making excuses.

[Selatius]

72. Yes, but I've never seen anyone use it to attack liberalism

I think there is merit to your first point, but on the second point, I will need a lot more convincing. Liberalism has been attacked as an ideology with or without Neocons in the picture, and it will always be attacked long after Neocons have passed away into the pages of history.

[ComerPerro]

73. I have. "Bush is too liberal"

"neocons are too liberal",

"Bush isn't a true conservative"

...

[Selatius]

75. But I don't recall hearing statements to that effect very often if at all.

Not in the corporate news outlets or with the major rightwing think tanks like the Heritage Foundation or the American Enterprise Institute. The first time I've seen statements that Bush is a liberal or that he is too liberal or that Neocons are too liberal are with you. I have not seen this meme as a major fixture on the major outlets. All I'm seeing today is the idiotic meme about how the Democrats are weak on national defense and how they're wrong on family values.

[bullwinkle428]

46. I've never seen a shred of evidence to suggest that * was EVER

liberal at any point in his life - look at anything that goes back to his days in college. I don't see Cheney as being particluarly selfless in his younger days, except for when he saved a placed in the military for a poor minority by taking a student deferment...

[joeygirl]

87. Problem is that NeoCons don't realize that nobody

likes their ideas. Cons go along because it's not like they are going vote with a Democrat, so they get suckered into voting for the cr*p. Democrats - you never really know when they are going to oppose them or vote with them. So, it's not like there really is a "loyal opposition".

So, we get bad legislation that B* won't veto and we are told that it's a good thing.... :banghead:

NeoCon is a made up word that makes them feel all warm and fuzzy because they are "new" cons (think "cons for the 21st century") Yeah...:eyes: ,

I don't know what they are, but my conservative friends make a point to tell me that "Bush isn't a real conservative"...

Somehow, that doesn't make me feel better.

[frylock]

37. smaller govt. is code for the eradication of social programs..

when so-called conservatives say they are for smaller government, what they really mean is that all social programs should be eliminated, period.

[LanternWaste]

54. I'm not sure I agree.

I'm not sure I agree. I believe I'm a very conservative Christian and percieve myself as a very progressive Democrat. Indeed, it is because I'm a conservative Christian that I became a Democrat sometime around '87 or '88.

[ComerPerro]

55. By definition, you can't be a "conservative Christian" and a Progressive

they work against each other.

[LanternWaste]

58. One is secular, the other is not

One is secular, the other is not. Conservative within the Christian realm is absolutely not the same as conservative in the secular world-- much like the word negative: it can have wonderful meanings to a patient just diagnosed by a doctor, but have horrible connotations for a person listening to his CPA.

[ComerPerro]

61. however, typically Conservative Christians oppose secularism entirely

[LanternWaste]

76. Within my church, we call these people 'pharisees'

I think you're confusing particular sects of Christianity with conservative Christianity. My own church is a very conservative Christian Presbyterian church (and I'm very typical withing my church). We do not oppoe secularism, indeed- we realize it is part of the very fabric of our existence and embrace many, many parts of it.

Maybe by conservative Christian, you actually mean a poltical conservative who drapes it within the garb of Christianity ofr good effect. Within my church, we call these people 'pharisees'.


However, I don't beieve it's semantics at all as you stated a few posts back. It's 'context'. Using the word 'conservative' in and of itself has many different meaning depending on context-- religious, political, or even the portion size of a meal.

[Kingofalldems]

4. That's why I always root for Europe in the Ryder Cup

The PGA tour is filled with neocons. Of course none of them have rushed to their local army recruiters office. BTW, there is at least one Dem---Notah Begay.

[Parche]

10. notah

He is a nice guy, he does alot for the golf tour, along with his brother Itsfineto Begay

[marmar]

47. Me too...just because I know so many of the U.S. golfers are Repug trash..

Vive la Europe! :toast:

[President Jesus]

57. ...and they claim we hate America

Wonder where they get that idea?

[T Wolf]

5. I would expect nothing else from these so-called "athletes" who

grew up in the entitled world of country clubs. Anyone who has spent time around golfers can tell you that most of them are very conservative. Racist and sexist "humor" is common.

They love their country clubs because it keeps the wrong kind of people out of their private enclaves. Except those who serve them business-expense meals, carry their clubs, and otherwise treat them as the royalty they think they are.

Even in the sports world (if golf is really a sport), the world hates georgebushamericans.

[Oilwellian]

13. Uh, I'm a golfer and am very liberal

The sport of golf, and yes, it's a sport...look the word up ... has changed a lot in the past 10 years. I know several DU'ers who are also golfers and I'm sure they too would find your characterization insulting. Those I play with are also quite liberal, and those that aren't are getting quite an education from me regarding the republican party.

I suspect most American pro-golfers are supporters of corporate America, hence the republican party, since it is they who sponsor their tournaments and write their paychecks. I on the other hand play golf, (and no, no one carries my clubs, I carry my own, thank you) because it's a wonderful way to stay in shape, and something I can do to spend quality time with my husband, who also happens to be very liberal.

The article itself states the European pro-golfers are much more liberal than their American counterparts, which also deflates your biased opinions of golfers as a whole. I always thought it was Republicans who are judgemental of other people and lump them into groups, rather than considering each person's individual merits. It saddens me to see a so-called progressive do the same thing.

[ComerPerro]

21. Yeah, but you aren't a pro-golfer

that is, you don't earn millions of dollars just by appearing on a course.

[President Jesus]

59. I call bullshit.

American pro tennis players also generally grow up spoiled and privileged, yet they are overwhelmingly Democrats. Tennis by and large is a very elite sport, just as golf is.

Look at this fact sheet of pro athletes and their campaign contributions:
http://www.newsmeat.com/sports_political_donations/

It just has something to do with the culture of those involved with the sport. Why are football players GOP while basketball players Dem? Both are equally rich, and both for the most part came from working-class families.

[Jimbo S]

85. I see PGA and NASCAR athletes

almost 100% Republican across the board.

[earth mom]

6. ROFL...puke on their golfbags...

me too! :puke:

[depakid]

9. That's golf for you

an utterly wasteful "sport."

[ProfessorGAC]

11. Yawn!

Way to stay on point.
The Professor

[Greyhound]

56. As George Carlin pointed out many years ago, golf courses and

graveyards are a criminal waste of space and resources.

BTW, just how is riding or walking around a park to hit a little ball around a way to stay in shape? I used to manage the "19th hole" at an exclusive club in Georgia, and none of those guys could walk up a flight of stair without a rest stop and a beer. The worst one was a cardiologist that was at least 300 libs. overweight, LOL! :rofl:

[zbdent]

12. "Now watch me hit this ball" - no surprise there

Hey, remember Payne Stewart's military escort?

[Junkdrawer]

14. If you want to be a pro golfer, you need lessons, equipment, and...

a full time membership at a good golf course starting at about age 12. You need to be able to play at least 5 rounds (4hrs/round) a week.

Now, guess who that limits the ranks to...

[Phx_Dem]

15. depends where you live

here in AZ we have public courses, you can play a round of golf for 8 bucks.

[Junkdrawer]

16. You can get pretty good, but you won't compete at a pro level..

playing on public courses. Maybe 1 in 100 pros come from poor backgrounds. Maybe.

I lived on a golf course as a caddy from age 13 thru 19 and then caddied in several PGA events in the early 70s. Sons of rich daddies with rare exceptions (and those were mostly sons of CC pros).

My nephew was an amateur champ at age 14. His dad is a very successful computer software salesman and he spent a FORTUNE on the kid's golf game. Golf at that level is a rich man's sport.

[Phx_Dem]

77. Maybe your right--I don't know

But you can play a 18 hole round at Papago (a phx muni course) for $12. This course has a rating of 73.3 and is where the Phx Open qualifying is held.

link:
http://phoenix.gov/SPORTS/papago.html

[City Lights]

49. An $8 round of golf may be doable in some parts of AZ, but it's not

that cheap everywhere. When I lived there, the public course near me cost $135 for 18 holes in the high season. It was considerably cheaper in the summer.

[Phx_Dem]

69. Sorry I meant municipal courses

Phx and other cities in the Valley here have city run golf courses. I just checked the rate at Aguila--$23 for an 18 hole round (adult).

link:
http://phoenix.gov/SPORTS/golf.html

I'm pretty sure Tucson and Yuma also have muni courses.

[City Lights]

71. No problem. Thanks for the clarification.

:hi:

[onenote]

17. so the European golders don't get lessons or use equipment?

The European golfers cited in the article seem to have different viewpoints than the American golfers that are described. Now unless you think that those European golders don't need lessons, equipment, etc., those factors wouldn't seem to explain the difference.

In other words, either you can become a good golfer without the things you describe as necessary or, more likely, you can have access to the things that are needed to become a good golfer, but still not turn into a born-again Christian and/or a repub.

[ComerPerro]

20. The conservative BS that passes in this country

is a tough sell in Europe

[Junkdrawer]

24. Same forces apply. It just means that wealthy Europeans, by and large,

don't support Bush.

Wealthy Americans, by and large, do support Bush.

[annabanana]

18. ALL these guys are American "mushrooms"*

They mouth the platitudes of their cohorts, without thought and without information. In their cloistered realm, they assume that "their crowd" has the inside story, and the other 70% of America, and 100% of the world just don't "get it".


(*kept in the dark and fed shit.)

[ComerPerro]

19. Of course they are Conservative. They barely work and are highly paid

[onenote]

25. so why are the europeans not as conservative

they also barely work and are highly paid. Simplistic analyses lead to simplistic conclusions.

[ComerPerro]

29. Because they benefit from a somewhat socialist society

they see it in practice

[DancingBear]

43. Just a quick side note

The difference between becoming a pro in Europe vs. the U.S. is like night and day.

You may not play golf, but there is a sense of false entitlement here that is nowhere to be found in Europe. American golfers are (with rare exceptions) despised in Europe. It is disgusting to watch their conduct on some of the courses in Scotland and Ireland.

The have vs. have not mentality common here is just not prevalent anywhere else. Here, for example, you will find buffoons with $2000 custom clubs and $100 shirts who can't play a lick complaining about course conditions and wait times and (oh, you'll love this one) women on the course.

I used to be quite good at the game (and I'm working on getting back), and I used to love to go out as a "single" on my local golf course wearing just enough "proper" clothing to not break the dress code. I'd ask to be paired up with a couple of guys who looked like they would fit the mold, and without reservation they almost always did.

I'd listen to their stupid stories, watch them smoke their stupid cigars, watch them talk endlessly about their stupid clubs - and then proceed to kick their stupid asses. :)

[arewenotdemo]

79. you got that right

Of course, to listen to them, they "pulled themselves up by their bootstraps".

What a crock of shit.

[pointblank]

27. I dont know about you all

but Jesus Built my Hotrod

[Phx_Dem]

74. Hey pointblank

are those your beagles?

you can see my dogs here:
http://www.dogster.com/pet_page.php?j=t&i=364771
http://www.dogster.com/pet_page.php?i=365289&j=t
http://www.dogster.com/pet_page.php?i=382282&j=t

[AngryAmish]

28. Corey Pavin?

I thought he was Jewish. And I thought Loren "The Boss of the Moss" Roberts was Canadian.

[bullwinkle428]

48. Pavin was born and raised in a Jewish home, and converted

sometime in adulthood. Loren Roberts actually grew up in California...not quite sure what happened there!

[AngryAmish]

50. Who knew?

[moondust]

32. Doubt Tiger Woods and Chris DiMarco are fundies.

Bill Clinton was a special guest and spoke at the grand opening of Tiger Woods' private school for kids. DiMarco doesn't act like it. Mickelson donates to Pugs but he plays golf as unconservatively as anybody out there.

Fred Funk is a hopeless wingnut.

[Oilwellian]

42. Jack Nicholas is a lifetime Democrat n/t

[City Lights]

51. Newsmeat says otherwise:

http://www.newsmeat.com/sports_political_donations/Jack_Nicklaus.php

[bullwinkle428]

52. I thought I remember reading Rich Beem "admitted" to being a Dem

as well, sometime after his PGA Championship win in '02. Of course, Beem had some experience doing REAL work for a living, selling cell phones and car stereos for like $8/hour after he had washed out as an assistant club pro and was still trying to figure out what to do with his life...

[Bleacher Creature]

39. This is why I always root for David Duval in his comeback attempt. . .

http://www.wonkette.com/politics/bush/why-are-pro-golfers-republicans-188706.php

[AngryAmish]

41. Europeans and Americans become golf pros in different ways

In Europe most guys turn pro young and don't get golf scholarships. They hone their craft while working a job - being an assistent pro somewhere. (This is a generality and their are obvious exceptions.)

In America a promissing young golfer gets a scholarship and plays in amatuer event. They can't work in their sport or they lose eligibility.

Then after college they turn pro and get sponsered. If one is independantly wealthy then there is no need for sponsers. Sponsers are rich dudes that put up money for a % of winnings -- they are not sponser for shoes or equipment.

Why is the culture different? US pros may not have to work a day in their lives. That is why they are considered spoiled.

[lies and propaganda]

44. well, duh. How can middle or low class people

afford to play that face of a 'sport?' Uppity, rich old white dudes....sounds like a good ole boys party to me!

[bullwinkle428]

45. I'm LMAO at Bobby Clampett's comments! HUGH HYPOCRITE!

Although I probably should have misspelled "hypocrite" in a Freeperistic way to convey the point...

Anyway, I post on a golf board pretty regularly, and one of the posters who I trust very much mentioned that he was involved in a very messy divorce a couple of years back; messy as the result of all of his extracirricular activities. This poster lived in the same town as Clampett in North Carolina, I believe, so she was privvy to lots of the dirt that wouldn't necessarily make any papers. She's personally disgusted by his holier-than-thou stance he takes in public...

[President Jesus]

53. Paul Azinger donated the max to Katherine Harris

:puke: http://www.newsmeat.com/sports_political_donations/Paul_Azinger.php

[sweetheart]

67. Tell me about it

In frequenting Inverness' Dalcross Airport, one can't but notice the very american
accents and the buzzillion golf bags with the stench of republican all over them,
flying to scotland for a golf treat, or a highland tryst, the ongoing participation
in the reversal of history is still a working project.

Golf is a common man's sport in scotland, anybody can play and costs are not prohibitive
at all, you can get golf kit at tesco and hit the golf course for a little over 100 quid.

But stateside where golf courses are temples for the rich white, the plantation coutnry
clubs where only the richest elites can afford to be golf players, even elites like
clinton.

But after the landlords broke the scottish highlanders, burning their houses during
the clearances (of land), and driving them away that 50 millions scotts live about
the planet some place taking the golf idea, and the need to recreate a wet green sheep-mown
landscape in whatever terraine, those millions of sheep for whom the clearances were done,
by sheer greed for more wool production, an ethnic cleansing, and what do the descendents
do today? Do you think they hate sheep? No, they worship them.

To complete the irony, rich americans come to worship a common mans game, waited on by poles
who look scottish when they don't talk, the true scottish highlanders return with their
golf clubs, descended from gentics long removed, they come back to rule over a golf course
and revel in being just regular common blokes.

[Joe Chi Minh]

78. That's really bad, but I think not at all surprising. Imo they're

mostly spoilt brats from monied families.

[MelliMel]

80. So what is the definition of neo-con?

I've heard several:

1)Those who are more social conservatives as opposed to fiscal.

2)Fiscal conservatives first, social issues not a big deal.

3)Evil Zionists.

[Kingofalldems]

81. Neocons tell cons what to do

They throw them a bone occasionally but the neocons set the agenda.

[AnnieBW]

82. Christian Golfers

My dad is a golfer, and I know that he's a Christian. Why? Because every time he hits the ball, he yells "JESUS CHRIST!"

:evilgrin:

[tomreedtoon]

83. Golf is a game for rich bastards, anyway.

Aside from a few guys who were unfortunately taught the Game of the Rich by their fathers, who keep struggling to play it despite expensive greens fees, golf is mostly played by rich doctors, lawyers and businessmen.

Real people are working too hard to pay for everything to play sports.

[AngryAmish]

84. I'm glad to know I'm not a real person

I grew up with the game because the way to make the most money when you are 11 years old. I won my first full set of clubs for being the #1 caddy at my club. I went to college because of a caddy scholarship.

Now that I am rich do I no longer count as human? Do my golfing buddies who are not rich count as human? Golf is cheaper than you think. But I guess it is easier to point fingers and sneer.

[Jimbo S]

86. I lost respect for American pro golfers after

the Casey Martin situation.

He was the one who couldn't walk a course due to a disability and PGA rules wouldn't let him use a cart. He was able to use a cart through ADA, so he at least had a chance to prove himself against the pros.

Also was Tiger Woods college teammate and I never did hear Tiger speak up for him.