Psychos Need a Little Sympathy

[LoZoccolo]

It's difficult to empathize with, let alone have sympathy for, a psychopath. But one scientist believes psychopaths, despite their sometimes terrifying behavior, deserve compassion.

At its core, he argues, psychopathy is a learning disability that makes it difficult for psychopaths to stop themselves from pursuing harmful behavior.

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/medtech/0,71819-0.html?tw=wn_index_1

Interesting article; I'm posting it because someone here a long time back was suggesting we identify psychopaths or sociopaths and euthanize them (which is counter to what this article suggests). If what this article is saying is true, we should be able to shrink the Republican Party some in future generations with some early therapy.

[BOSSHOG]

1. "Pursuing harmful behavior?"

I am at a crossroads with this finding. I can not bring myself to offer compassion to those who get their directions from focus on the family.

[dkofos]

2. Most deserve a bullet

delivered in a compassionate way

[shadowknows69]

3. I'll have the utmost sympathy for Bush

as soon as I can safely view himw through the window of the psychiatric wing of the prison.

[Orrex]

5. Any other disease-sufferers who should be similarly executed?

Or is it just the scary ones?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. Witches.

Only with fire.

[undergroundpanther]

18. If you go around getting off

on creating mental illness trauma and psychiatric injuries in people that aren't hurting anyone, than yeah. But as far as I know it is the psychopaths that do not want to change,and feel no reason to. Psychiatry has given them compassion and what do they do,use it to cause MORE pain.

At some point you gotta say ENOUGH with the COMPASSION it isn't WORKING. How long are you going to keep letting Innocent people suffer for this misguided compassion for psychopaths you have? I save my compassion for people who won't use it as a tool to hurt me or others,the victims of psychopaths.

[Orrex]

21. Well, let's think about this for a minute

It's one thing to say "enough with compassion" when we're dealing with adults who have full mental capacity and who still insist on harming others. But when we're discussing people with actual, demonstrable mental illness, it seems to me that we need to maintain a different standard.

If a person is functionally incapable of existing in society, the solution is not to put a compassionate bullet in his or her head; the solution is to create an environment in which he or she can't inflict (further) harm, and if possible to rehabilitate him or her. If rehabilitation is impossible, then perpetual incarceration is preferable to state-sanctioned murder.

If you dole out your compassion based on who, your assessment, deserves it, then certainly it's your right to do so, but my view requires me to make a special accomodation for people who simply aren't equipped to interact in society. I'm not pretending to be a saint; I wouldn't want such a person as my roommate, but I don't endorse their wholesale murder, either.

[undergroundpanther]

17. Agreed!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. ...

"But one scientist believes psychopaths, despite their sometimes terrifying behavior, deserve compassion."

Jesus Christ!























(pun intended)

[patrice]

7. Most people don't CHOOSE to be bad/evil.

They're that way because they have psychological "handicaps".

That's my personal bias on the topic, I know, so you don't have to tell me how naive it is.

I believe if people knew and/or understood the things they personally need to learn and understand, they wouldn't be sick in the mind and heart and they wouldn't choose the bad or evil.

[sandnsea]

9. Nobody chooses to be bad/evil

Nobody makes a life plan to be a murderer or rapist. That's why there isn't any reason for civilized people to inflict more pain on them. Remove them from society so innocent people won't be harmed, but any further animosity towards the sickest among us shows as much fault in "civilized people" as in the psychopaths and sociopaths. When "civilied society" figures that out, maybe we can start reducing the number of psychopaths in the first place. I don't think you're naive at all.

[patrice]

27. I agree.

The things that make capital punishment "necessary" (to some people) cause the problems that eventually make capital punishment "necessary".

The causes come from who and what WE are.

Most crime is a symptom not a cause; Punishment is like trying to treat cancer with ice cream.

[undergroundpanther]

14. Psychopaths CHOOSE it

Because they can GET AWAY with it.

I disagree with you.

[Orrex]

23. Forgive me, but...

It seems that you're using a rather narrow definition of psychopath. Judging from your posts here, a psychopath is simply any person who chooses to act in a hurtful or injurious way toward another, and you seem unwilling to recognize that such a person may actually be mentally ill. Correspondingly, you seem willing to execute these psychopaths--more or less summarily--on the grounds that their actions justify it.

Well, I'm of the view that capital punishment is indistinguishable from murder, but we can agree to disagree on that point.

But I'm puzzled as to why you're so unwilling to consider that psychopaths may in fact suffer from an illness. I grant that some non-ill people may act in a manner consistent with psychopathic behavior, but what about those who truly are ill? Should they be executed just because they're inconvenient, or because they make society at large feel uncomfortable? Well, once we go down that road, it's hard to see the end.

You (and others in this thread) have argued that psychopaths, in consciously choosing to harm others, forfeit their right to compassion or help. Why should this be so? What if their psychopathy goads them not to injure people but to torture non-human animals? Should they still be executed? What if they habitually vandalize other people's property? What is the threshold for acceptable state-sanctioned executions?

[patrice]

26. You and I probably have different definitions of the word "choose".

There are no absolutes, least of all in language/words (not mine, not yours).

I am not saying no one ever chooses bad or evil, only that it is way less common than people assume.

[Sinti]

8. Interesting. There is a woman, a neurologist, I can't remember her name

off the top. She has studied the brains of serial killers. Apparently they all have an injury to the part of their brain that controls aggression. They were beaten, or injured as children, and combined with other social factors, were "created" - this is not to say they shouldn't be imprisoned, just that there are reasons for this behavior. The nerve endings in specific parts of their brains are damaged, and the part that would be "conscience" is basically not working. This makes perfect sense to me.

Now, if this kind of study would get funding, and if the corporate-prison system wasn't such a money maker, we might be able to treat these brain injuries - especially with the new brain stem cell findings (the stem cells that build new brain tissue.) I also wonder how much "inner city violence" is caused by environmental toxins that cause damage to these same ares of the brain, but that's an entirely different subject.

People may laugh, but if you know the cause of this kind of violent behavior, wouldn't you prefer to treat it, meaning cure it not cover it up, and potentially end the cycle completely?

[undergroundpanther]

19. What about the psychopaths

Who were NOT beaten or growing up in abusive homes?
A significant amount of psycvhopaths were treated well as kids.They exist psychopaths from kind families.
http://www.theava.com/04/0324-duffy.html
The psychopath recognizes no flaw in his psyche, no need for change.
http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm
http://www.hare.org/links/saturday.html

[marions ghost]

24. From your article....

"We are not commonly aware of, nor do we usually identify, the larger number of nonviolent sociopaths among us, people who often are not blatant lawbreakers, and against whom our formal legal system provides little defense."

http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm

I would agree with you that this type of sociopath is not easily identified. The legal system needs to
recognize that they can wreak serious damage. It's not so much how these people should be punished, but more how to address the problems of, and provide protection to, the victims.

[Sinti]

25. I think only social non-acceptance - stigmatization if you will

can decrease the number of those in society. The study I was referring to dealt strictly with serial killers, and the fact that certain parts of their brains simply did not function - hence, I would think we could prevent this from happening in the first place.

There are others, who are simply evil by choice. I've known some, and yes, they were generally well-treated as children - but they're not the criminal type. They generally destroy while remaining within the guidelines of the law. Thanks for the links, there's a lot of interesting reading there.

[kiki]

10. Of COURSE they're mentally ill.

Ya think anyone goes out murdering people or starting wars because they're SANE?

I've never really believed in the 'legal' definition of insanity - by definition, it seems to me, you have to be crazy to do these things. I guess that means I don't really believe in evil - although I certainly believe that these people need to be stopped, isolated from the societies they seek to harm and treated if possible. I just don't think it's constructive to talk about evil as if these people have been possessed by some dark supernatural force, when the obvious truth is that they just have a head full of catastrophically bad wiring.

So I suppose even Shrubbie and Rummy and Darth Dick (and even Rushbo, Billy-o and the freepers, who have a different form of insanity; harbouring the same repulsive desires but perhaps too lazy or scared to go out and commit their own atrocities, they just like to jack off to the antics of their more outgoing psychopath brethren) deserve our sympathy. But we are of course only human, and when we see the havoc and misery these lunatics create, we'd have to be some kind of Nirvana-achieving ultra-Buddhist mofo not to let the natural feelings of disgust and anger take over.

In an ideal world, Georgie and all the other warmongers would be put in a home and given therapy until they weep for days with genuine regret over what they've done. But hey, the right-wingers are always telling us that this utopian stuff will never work, so maybe we should just throw away the fucking key. :)

[undergroundpanther]

12. NO they are NOT mentally ill.

They are ETHICALLY evil.
Mentally ill people have a disconnect from reality.

Psychopaths have a disconnect from empathy and the very essence of what it means to be a human being,and they know it and they do not care.
People who cannot contain their urges to harm (or kill) people repeatedly for no apparent reason are assumed to suffer from some mental illness. However, they may be more cruel than crazy, they may be choosing not to control their urges, they know right from wrong, they know exactly what they're doing, and they are definitely NOT insane, at least according to the consensus of most scholars (Samenow 2004). In such cases, they usually fall into one of three types that are typically considered aggravating circumstances in addition to their legal guilt -- antisocial personality disorder (APD), sociopath, or psychopath -- none of which are the same as insanity or psychosis. APD is the most common type, afflicting about 4% of the general population. Sociopaths are the second most common type, with the American Psychiatric Association estimating that 3% of all males in our society are sociopaths and Stout (2005) estimating 4% of the population. Psychopaths are rare, found in perhaps 1% of the population.
http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/428/428lect16.htm

The old time term for psychopathy was moral depravity or moral insanity. That's not a mental illness. Psychopaths KNOW right from wrong.they just don't care they do wrong.Psychopaths are SANE because they KNOW right from Wrong..
http://faculty.ncwc.edu/TOConnor/301/psycpath.htm


A lot of so called "mental illness" is really psychological injury caused by abuse from people with personality disorders. People with personality disorders deserve far more attention from the psychiatrists. Many professionals are looking down the wrong end of the telescope - the answer is staring them in the face. I think that this misguided approach by many professionals is a cultural manifestation of psychopathic projection.

http://www.bullyeq.com/more_on_psychos.htm

[LoZoccolo]

20. Your argument is so rife with error...

...that I'm sure not many people will take to it other than yourself.

Psychopaths have a disconnect from empathy and the very essence of what it means to be a human being,and they know it and they do not care.

Either:

- They can control it, or...
- They can't.

I'm sure you can see the rest of where I'm going with it, so I'll leave it as an exercise to fill out the rest. If you wan't, of course, because I can't make you.

In such cases, they usually fall into one of three types that are typically considered aggravating circumstances in addition to their legal guilt -- antisocial personality disorder (APD), sociopath, or psychopath -- none of which are the same as insanity or psychosis.

There is plenty of mental illness outside of "insanity" and "psychosis". Depression would be one example. Your argument seems to rely on that definition.

The old time term for psychopathy was moral depravity or moral insanity. That's not a mental illness.

Right and we know anything people used to say in the old time is more correct than what people know now.

I think that this misguided approach by many professionals is a cultural manifestation of psychopathic projection.

Looking at the way mental illness affects attitudes toward the mentally ill is definately an interesting topic.

[LostinVA]

13. No, they aren't mentally ill -- they are also sane

Sociopathic behavior is not a mental illness, it is a personality disorder. It cannot be cured -- at least at this point in time.

I'm totally not arguing with you about how sociopaths should be treated, etc., but medically/mentally facts show it is NOT an illness, it is indeed a personality disorder.

Andrea Yates has a mental illness, Ted Bundy was a sociopath. I also believe GWB is.

[undergroundpanther]

15. It annoys me to no end

when they lump the mentally ill in with psychopaths.
Mentally ill people DO NOT get off on abusing others Mentally ill people do feel guilt or shame after they have an episode if something hurtful happened..Pasychopaths don't feel any remorse,unless it is remorse they got caught..
I think most mental illness is deliberately caused by the psychological abuse and DAMAGE done to people by psychopaths.The Mentally ill as far As I am concerned suffer from psychiatric injury.

[undergroundpanther]

16. Dupe

[undergroundpanther]

11. Psychopath kids

Deserve help as much as they can get as early as possible to try to stop the process..But once they turn 18,or severely injure,rape or kill someone the compassion ends.

If it is a disability fine they are messed up. But being messed up does not mean they are excused from the obligations to civility we all must do to be able to live around each other.

Psychopath adults have no pity from me,they know what they do is wrong and they don't care unless they are caught.Do YOU want to spend your life babysitting psychopaths so they don't hurt anyone?

I'd rather bust them when they do a crime,stand them up in a court of law,give them due process,convict them,give them 1 appeal, and if that doesn't do it,kill them quickly and without pain ,so they do not make any more little psychopaths and so they don't manipulate to get out and hurt anybody else again.Recidivism rates are insane..BTW...I don't trust psychopaths to be able to handle their own freedom or being among non sociopaths in society. Would you trust a toddler to drive a car on the freeway? No,so why trust a psychopath with freedom? They use freedom to abuse, manipulate and traumatize people. Psychopathy itself is INCOMPATIBLE with all the noble humane values that enable humans to exist around each other in relative safety like freedom,empathy,responsibility,cooperation,peace and compassion.


One way to make sure they don't ruin others lives is after they do the crime,get convicted,they are humanely put down,because they are not able to live among others,and there is no place to isolate them away from non sociopaths really,keeping someone who suffers from easy boredom in a cage seems like psychological torture,it's more humane to kill them than let them rot in jail, I think,and you cannot trust them,so kill them, so they cannot create more misery out here. People thought it was ok to kill Terri Shiavo because she was brain dead,well psychopaths are ethically dead and unlike Terri, THEY like to hurt other People and traumatize people and are compelled to do it,they know they do it,and that it is wrong and they don't care.I'd rather let harmless but not cost effective people live their lives,if they choose to , than to confuse psychopaths with non psychopaths,and pity a perpetrator, and let the psychopaths exist another day to do harm again.

[applegrove]

22. We need a brain scan. So such people can be kept out of certain

jobs. Like high level politics, & helping professions. Thankfully - there are tests. And science will just be more and more informed. Plus I think viagara helps the freaks control their testosterone (they always find Viagara with the Uday Husseins or your average Columbian Drug Lord when they are caught).

[Taxloss]

28. Some of the responses on this thread are chilling.

I never thought I'd see the day when otherwise sensible leftists were taking about murdering the mentally ill and the socially inconvenient. Maybe one day we'll have the medical understanding, technological skill and ethical maturity to address some destructive human traits by gentle editing of the genome, but what is being discussed here is at best crude, ignorant eugenics and at worst cold-blooded murder. Psychopaths are people too - we are depriving humanity of a rich seam of its own foundations if we murder people because we don't like their brains.