Giuliani: Blaming Clinton For 9/11 "Is Just Wrong"...

[kpete]

Giuliani defends Clinton on 9/11 efforts By MATT SEDENSKY, Associated Press Writer


FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. - Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani defended Bill Clinton on Wednesday over the former president's counterterrorism efforts, saying recent criticism on preventing the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks is wrong.

Political bickering over which president — Clinton or George W. Bush — missed more opportunities to prevent the attacks has been escalating since Clinton gave a combative interview on "Fox News Sunday" in which he defended his efforts to kill Osama bin Laden.

"The idea of trying to cast blame on President Clinton is just wrong for many, many reasons, not the least of which is I don't think he deserves it," Giuliani said in response to a question after an appearance with fellow Republican Charlie Crist, who is running for governor. "I don't think President Bush deserves it. The people who deserve blame for Sept. 11, I think we should remind ourselves, are the terrorists — the Islamic fanatics — who came here and killed us and want to come here again and do it."

................

Giuliani said he believed Clinton, like his successor, did everything he could with the information he was provided.

more at:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060928/ap_on_re_us/giuliani_clinton;_ylt=AjzFA0OnwEw3tL2H2J8rE8yyFz4D;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

[Kutjara]

1. Well, he's half right.

Blaming Clinton is wrong. Blaming Bush is, however, completely correct. And there's a bit of blame left over regarding the aftermath, that's all for Rudy.

[Demobrat]

2. Funny how nobody ever mentions

that it happened on W's watch. W let it happen. Not Clinton. W. "Nuff said.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Horse with no Name]

6. Nice RW talking points

You get an "E" for effort but an "F" for lack of facts.
Enjoy your (brief) stay.

[originalpckelly]

7. You're a Yankee doodle dumbshit, yankee doodle do or die...

Jeepers creepers I see freepers!

[shadowknows69]

You SO Rock pckelly

:toast:

[SammyWinstonJack]

29. !

:spray: That was great! :yourock:

[originalpckelly]

35. Thanks, thought of it in a second.

I have to remember it.

[BattyDem]

43. ROFL!

:rofl:

Oh damn ... now I'm going to be singing that song all night! :crazy:

[rzemanfl]

9. Welcome to DU, you won't find many here who agree with you,

but that might be your plan. Right?

[annabanana]

10. Um.. don't look now, but the guys who did the 1st bombing

at the WTC are in jail. At least they are paying some price.

[BattyDem]

45. And Clinton didn't have to ...

trash the Constitution, rewrite our laws and resort to third world tactics to bring them to justice!

[ck4829]

11. When did Sudan offer to give Clinton bin Laden?

And please, no RW rags.

[cynatnite]

12. Do you have those memorized or written down? n/t

[babylonsister]

13. You obviously missed Olbermann's righteous rant tonight. Perhaps

you should go watch it and edumicate yourself.

And I'll even help:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2238204

[HysteryDiagnosis]

14. All of the attacks on our soldiers in Iraq have been planned

and carried out under Bush II so get over it... not to mention what's yet to come over this illegal, immoral, effing quagmire this dolt has taken this nation into, even though he was warned plenty enough. I guess the lure of fame clouds one's decision making process.... dudn't it.

[nam78_two]

15. ugh -they are everywhere/nt

[Sydnie]

16. Oh GOD

[me b zola]

17. Clinton takes responsibility for what happened on his watch...

...and Clinton discusses the issues honestly. Then there is your idiot king george, who lies about everything.

Jesus, why can't you guys admit that this country has gone to hell in a handbasket under your idiot ruler?

[gully]

18. There were embassy bombings under Bush too, forget those?

How bout so called "acts of terror committed against our troops? Bush? How bout Riyadh?

The Cole was not a known Al Qaida attack, and Bush was the one who got official word that Al Q was in fact responsible, he did nothing. So remove the cole and place that in the Bush column.

Regarding the mythical offer by Sudan, it never happened.

[cynatnite]

20. August 6, 2001 PDB...Bin Laden Determined to Strike America

'nuff said.

[VeggieTart]

36. and as for the Bushies' assertation that...

...nobody thought people would crash planes into buildings, yes, they did!. The men who designed the towers built them to withstand the impact of a 727, which was the largest plane in existence at that time. I'm sure the guys were thinking accident.

And what part of "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the U.S." did you not understand?

What really steams me is that Bush sat on his ass for seven minutes after his aide told him that the country was under attack. He's so good at lying, he couldn't have told a nice white lie to the kids in the classroom?

[cynatnite]

38. Here are more bush failures...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13lGuuebvfg

Welcome to DU :hi:

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Horse with no Name]

40. Oh my another one

in the same thread.
What part of Right Wing obstruction do you not understand? Does "Wag the Dog" accusations sound familiar?
Geez...don't you have anything better to do?zzzzzzz

[cynatnite]

42. Do you really really wanna use the 9/11 commission report?

You sure? :evilgrin:

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

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[cynatnite]

66. Try reading Richard Clarke's testimony for a start...

then get back to me.

I really don't think you actually read it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

44. Must Suck To Know You're Going To Lose Both Houses Of Congress Huh.

Maybe if Mr.Bush and his GOP cronies had actually done a thing to help, to protect or to be honest with the american people while not creating an utter debacle in Iraq you guys would've stood a chance in hell. But alas, you guys have nothing. The cloud of deceit has begun drifting away and Americans are once again awakening to what it means to be an American: And that means throwing the GOP out on their deceitful useless assess.

Thanks for comin, and your friends too. Just goes to show even more that you guys are intimidated and scared, and you have well reason to be. You are the last remaining loyal remnants of a completely failing party.

[wicket]

46. Enjoy your short stay.

:nopity:

[me b zola]

48. And Clinton responded to the intell with appropriate measures

What did your idiot boy do?

Jesus, what is wrong with you people?

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

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[me b zola]

68. Yeah, you obviously have comand of the facts and rational thought

:rofl:

I'm not going to waste my time posting links to show you in black & white--because I've seen what you guys do with the facts-->you ignore facts and then move on to some other Limball talking point.

Let me ask you this. Al Qaeda is not an army, is not a nation. How the fuck do you wage traditional war on a group of individuals that are dangerous? Answer: You don't. The military has a limited ability to affect such a threat. Diplomacy where appropriate to gain cooperation from nations where said terrorists are located (your bozo blew any chance of this), arrest and try when possible, blow up/kill when necessary.

Jesus. Don't you guys ever play chess? Do you have any critical thinking skills?

By your thinking,"yeah, he really made a dent in that al qaeda...showed them not to pull anymore shit...you are delusional." cops in every American city & town are not doing their job because crime continues to happen even though they arrest and try those supected of committing crimes. Yeah, those cops are soft on crime because they haven't erradicated it. :eyes:

[me b zola]

50. So why did your idiot king george ignore this intell when he took office?

Clinton didn't ignore it, Clinton went after the SOB. Why is your idiot king george protecting Bin Laden? Why are you supporting an administration that protects terrorists?

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

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[Sydnie]

51. Wow, socks for BOTH feet in one thread!

:rofl:

[gator_in_Ontario]

52. 3 posts

well one would think you would be smart enough to build a few up first....never mind

[karlrschneider]

53. To use the memorable words of your Dear Vice Leader

Go fuck yourself.

[Liberal In Texas]

54. King Georgie 2 ignored the threat of terrorists to play with his missile

defense toys. Which don't work and we don't need.

Clinton jailed terrorists for life in the WTC bombing. They passed on the OBL intel and it was ignored by the newly appointed administration.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

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[Liberal In Texas]

63. Your party back then was screaming like stuck pigs anytime Clenis

tried to do anything about terrorism, or Bosnia, or the Cole etc...

"No War For Monica!" Remember that crap.

Go drink your Kook Aid. Moran.

[me b zola]

21. The guys who bombed WTC I are in prison for life

...and no one needed to take away your civil liberties to put them in prison.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

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[janx]

22. IT HAPPENED ON "W"'s watch.

That is what happened. He didn't keep us safe.

[ck4829]

23. And the guys responsible WTC I are still at large, right?

[KingFlorez]

25. Hush, puppet

[berni_mccoy]

26. Wow, someone from the republofascist party

Howdy :evilgrin:

[acmejack]

28. A republiclown!

[ourbluenation]

30. creepy freepy...counting down to the tombstone 5...4....3....2

"...So, by that logic, Clinton was responsible for WTC I even though he was only in office for 2 months or so when it happened. All the planning, funding, training, etc happened under Bush I, but according to your logic, it would be on Clinton. Of course not.

However, the Embassy bombings, the Khobar Towers and the USS Cole all were planned and carried out under Clinton, so they should be on him. 9/11 was not thrown together in 8 months, in response to Bush getting elected. It was put together in reponse to the lack of any response by Clinton for the aforementioned attacks throughout the 1990s. So while there is plenty of blame to go around, the fact that Clinton ignored bin Laden's declaration of war, turned down the Sudanese offer of giving over bin Laden, and provided no reponse at all to the previous attacks lend credence to the idea that more of the blame would fall there..."

************************

:rofl:

[cboy4]

32. Is that you Chris Wallace??

:hi:

[Moochy]

33. Clenis for the win!

Clenis made me do it!

[Burma Jones]

34. The Embassy Bombings, Khobar and Cole weren't in the USA

plots against the USA WERE stopped that were planned for the Millenium.

The deadliest terrorist attack on the US until 9/11 was carried out by RIGHT WINGERS, but yes, under Clinton's watch, but with Right Wing urging.

We have had to put up with Right Wing terrorists since the Civil War - at least

And yes, the folks responsible for WTC 1 are in jail.

And Republicans first armed OBL and made him an admired Mujahaddin

And Republicans armed Saddam, kissed his ass and then, once he was done killing Iranians, let him survive post Desert Storm.

my guess is that 9/11 happened because folks were still "taking over" from the Clinton Administration and they let the shit slip, it would be typical bureaucratic behavior.



Anyway, natty natty boo boo, thanks for helping turn the USA into a theocratic backwater......

[savemefromdumbya]

64. but no one says this (except Clinton)

no one has really pointed the finger enough

[Horse with no Name]

3. He is taking Clinton's advice and taking the high road

in essence NOT blaming either Bush or Clinton, he appeals to both camps.
He is a politician.

[eleny]

5. Things are looking bad for W - so let's all shut up

Yeah, Rudy, I get it. Now, Rudy - go f yourself.

[blm]

8. Exactly....... they are so transparent.

The magnaminous Republican speaks, "We'll stop lying about you, if you stop telling the truth about us."

[eleny]

71. Yeah, like - "Nevermind"

:rofl:

[nuxvomica]

27. Exactly. They started a fight and Clinton fought back

So now they want to make peace. Guiliani's signalling retreat cuz they're getting their fat Republican asses whipped. Too late, Rudy.

[eleny]

70. Amen to you and to blm

:toast: :toast:

[BuyingThyme]

19. But blaming "the troops" for the failure in Iraq is good Puke policy.

[frylock]

24. ghouliani's really going out on a limb there by blaming the terrorists...

"the people who deserve blame are the terrorists." Gee Rudy, thanks for the reminder.

[ellenfl]

31. is that the terrorists that were or the new ones? eom

[Catherine Vincent]

37. "I don't think pResident Bush deserves it."

Oh yes he does! The tragedy happened on his watch! His administration fell asleep at the helm.

[stevietheman]

41. Note: When Repukes start their "magnanimous bit", that's when to....

ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!!!!

Don't let these fuckers even come up for air!

[ComerPerro]

47. There are three acceptible ways to place blame for 9/11 in the media

one is to blame Clinton entirely, and place no blame on Bush.

One is to blame both parties, and say they both screwed up, and no one is more responsible than anyone else.

And, one is to blame no one.


Blaming BushCo and only BushCo is simply not acceptible.

[Straight Shooter]

49. For those who will miss the deleted post, begala (3 whole posts!) said ...

"Dec. 4, 1998, President Clinton received a Presidential Daily Briefing titled "Bin Ladin Preparing to Hijack US Aircraft and Other Attacks."

Well done..."

=======

Show us the PDB. We have all seen the PDB of 8/6/01 that bush ostensibly saw (but he scoffed at it).

The bush administration is in charge of all the papers regarding terrorism and its history. So, let's see that PDB you're claiming. If it were true, you know bush would be waving it around like a bloody shirt. Except he can't do that, because it means he would have seen it, right? Because Richard Clarke would have been sure to have brought it to Condi's attention, who certainly would have brought it to bush's attention, right?

No such document exists.

You can't win this one, begala.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

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[Straight Shooter]

62. Where is the PDB?

And your remark about Berger tells me that you don't take 9/11 seriously; you just want to defend your emperor.

[Strelnikov_]

67. It's About Half Way Down The Following Page

Look for the 'boxed' text.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch4.htm

You may also want to read the paragraphs following about the adminstrations response to this threat.

Just a bit more comprehensive than "you covered your ass" followed by some brush clearin and mountain bikin.

[Straight Shooter]

69. Thank you for that.

I just skimmed through the first page and did a search for "briefing," couldn't find it.

You're right about comprehensive. If little begala had not been so untimely *cough* tombstoned, I might have pointed out, number 1, that there were no hijacked planes flown into American targets after said PDB, meaning Clinton and his team paid attention; and, number 2, whatever the Clinton team knew, the bush team knew, meaning bush not only ignored one "hair on fire" PDB, he ignored two.

My take on it is that bush never wants to accept advice from anyone. He thinks he knows better than anybody else, which is why his administration scrapped the Clinton plans and then proceeded to spend 8 months with their collective thumbs up their rears while al Qaeda continued to hone their plans.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

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[Strelnikov_]

65. And Now, The Rest Of The Story

On Friday, December 4, 1998, the CIA included an article in the Presidential Daily Brief describing intelligence, received from a friendly government, about a threatened hijacking in the United States. This article was declassified at our request.

The same day, Clarke convened a meeting of his CSG to discuss both thehijacking concern and the antiaircraft missile threat. To address the hijacking warning, the group agreed that New York airports should go to maximum security starting that weekend. They agreed to boost security at other East coast airports. The CIA agreed to distribute versions of the report to the FBI and FAA to pass to the New York Police Department and the airlines. The FAA issued a security directive on December 8, with specific requirements for more intensive air carrier screening of passengers and more oversight of the screening process, at all three New York City area airports.112

The intelligence community could learn little about the source of the information. Later in December and again in early January 1999, more information arrived from the same source, reporting that the planned hijacking had been stalled because two of the operatives, who were sketchily described, had been arrested near Washington, D.C. or New York. After investigation, the FBI could find no information to support the hijack threat; nor could it verify any arrests like those described in the report. The FAA alert at the New York area airports ended on January 31, 1999.113

On December 17, the day after the United States and Britain began their Desert Fox bombing campaign against Iraq, the Small Group convened to discuss intelligence suggesting imminent Bin Ladin attacks on the U.S. embassies in Qatar and Ethiopia. The next day, Director Tenet sent a memo to the President, the cabinet, and senior officials throughout the government describing reports that Bin Ladin planned to attack U.S. targets very soon, possibly over the next few days, before Ramadan celebrations began. Tenet said he was "greatly concerned."114

With alarms sounding, members of the Small Group considered ideas about how to respond to or prevent such attacks. Generals Shelton and Zinni came up with military options. Special Operations Forces were later told that they might be ordered to attempt very high-risk in-and-out raids either in Khartoum, to capture a senior Bin Ladin operative known as Abu Hafs the Mauritanian-who appeared to be engineering some of the plots-or in Kandahar, to capture Bin Ladin himself. Shelton told us that such operations are not risk free, invoking the memory of the 1993 "Black Hawk down" fiasco in Mogadishu.115

The CIA reported on December 18 that Bin Ladin might be traveling to Kandahar and could be targeted there with cruise missiles. Vessels with Tomahawk cruise missiles were on station in the Arabian Sea, and could fire within a few hours of receiving target data.116

On December 20, intelligence indicated Bin Ladin would be spending the night at the Haji Habash house, part of the governor's residence in Kandahar. The chief of the Bin Ladin unit, "Mike," told us that he promptly briefed Tenet and his deputy, John Gordon. From the field, the CIA's Gary Schroen advised: "Hit him tonight-we may not get another chance." An urgent teleconference of principals was arranged.117

The principals considered a cruise missile strike to try to kill Bin Ladin. One issue they discussed was the potential collateral damage-the number of innocent bystanders who would be killed or wounded. General Zinni predicted a number well over 200 and was concerned about damage to a nearby mosque. The senior intelligence officer on the Joint Staff apparently made a different calculation, estimating half as much collateral damage and not predicting damage to the mosque. By the end of the meeting, the principals decided against recommending to the President that he order a strike. A few weeks later, in January 1999, Clarke wrote that the principals had thought the intelligence only half reliable and had worried about killing or injuring perhaps 300 people. Tenet said he remembered doubts about the reliability of the source and concern about hitting the nearby mosque. "Mike" remembered Tenet telling him that the military was concerned that a few hours had passed since the last sighting of Bin Ladin and that this persuaded everyone that the chance of failure was too great.118


Chimp's response to his PDB "Hey, you covered you ass".

You would think even an ignorant Reich-Winger (oxymoron?) could see the difference in the responses.