Test Your Civics here (do you do better than average ?)

[tocqueville]

Test and report here

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15013517/site/newsweek/

I got 88% (not bad for a Frenchie) flunked on last question. But I think it's a bit tricky, depends probably how you define "pay out" and budget.

from the survey :

What did you find?

Basically, we found that the freshmen arriving on campus were not very well prepared to take on their future responsibility as citizens. They earned a failing grade on our test. But after four to five years in college, we found that seniors, as a group, scored only 1.5 percent better than the entering freshmen.

What was most surprising was the finding that at 16 of the 50 schools, the freshmen did better than the seniors. We were startled by the extent of what we call “negative learning.” When courses are not offered or required, the students forget what they knew when they entered as freshmen, and that 16 included some of the best schools in the country, Berkeley, Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, Duke.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15014682/site/newsweek/

[BattyDem]

1. 88% for me, too - I also missed the last question

The answer surprised me.

[MikeNearMcChord]

2. I scored 100%

Not trying to brag here:headbang: :yourock:
Pay no attention to those smileys, I think I am being hacked!:woohoo: :applause:

Oh for shame!:spank:
:pals: 88% is not too bad:pals: , you score higher than Freepers

[BattyDem]

7. You got the last question? Good for you!

:applause: :toast: :applause:

That one threw me. I didn't expect the answer to be what it was ... though after thinking about it for a while, it does make perfect sense.



edited: damn typo!

[ddeclue]

9. I don't think the last question is correct...

They are probably not factoring in the supplemental appropriations for the war as defense spending. Consider that the war in Iraq has cost well over 250 billion dollars by now and there's also the war in Afghanistan.

Doug D.

[MikeNearMcChord]

10. Not to mention, black budget jobs for "intelligence"

Also consider, it is the continuing borrowing of the Social Security trust fund not the people, receiving it, that is probably the culprit.

[cmd]

11. I want to compare defense v social security

Military and defense are not the same.

[BattyDem]

13. Ah .... that's an EXCELLENT point!

I never thought of that.

[BattyDem]

12. I had trouble believing that, too

But if you think about it ... Social Security is not just retirement benfits. It's also Supplemental Security Income (SSI), disability benefits, survivors benefits and Medicare. Medicaid is also listed on the Social Security web site, even though the federal government doesn't pay the full cost. With the cost of healthcare in this country, it's quite possible that we spend the most on Social Security.

On edit: After reading cmd's post about "military" and "defense" not being the same thing, I realized how misleading the question is. Silly me ... I must learn to look for the "traps" on MSM web site polls!

[sandnsea]

20. $535 billion

Social security appears the largest, unless there's other defense expenditures I'm not aware of.

http://www.ssa.gov/budget/2004bud.html

[ddeclue]

25. I thought we were spending more than that on defense...

400 B on normal defense spending and then I had heard about 10b /month in Iraq and another couple billion in Afghanistan /month...

Anyways...I'm too busy to look it up right now..

[sandnsea]

26. $401 + $87.5 in 2004

$488.5 all together, less than social security but still way way way too goddamn much.

[ddeclue]

27. + how much for Department of "Homeland" Security?

+how much for CIA, NSA , etc.?

How much of the defense budget is really on the books and that 87.5B is that just Iraq or both Iraq and Afghanistan?

I've heard that the amount has gone up in the last few years quite a bit...

Do you have any 2005 figures?

I think when you add up the true costs of defense, it's much higher than 487.5B probably closer to 600B.

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[sandnsea]

29. I suppose you could add police and firefighters too

But that isn't what defense means, it specifically means the military budget.

[ddeclue]

72. Well DHS includes the Coast Guard for instance...

The CIA, NSA, and Coast Guard all have military functions, purposes and capabilities. Firefighters and police generally do not.

Doug D.
Orlando,FL

[madmusic]

37. And SS goes back into our economy via spending.

Not so the Iraq war, where billions are LOST.

[tenshi816]

53. It was a badly worded question.

"Military" is a big budget item, but it's not a pay-out in the sense that SS is. It was tricky wording and I wonder if it was done deliberately to confuse people (and thereby cause more people to give a wrong answer in order to prove their point that students don't do well on civics quizzes).

I was going to answer "military" until I started thinking about the "pay out" part of it, which made me think about social security payments.

[madmusic]

36. Freepers made the test.

See below.

[MadMaddie]

3. I took the test....I scored far above the Highschool seniors

but apparantly I need to read a bit more....

50%

[TomInTib]

4. I missed the 'wall of separation' question.

I don't know much about that guy.

Probably because my ex thought that he was the coolest guy who ever lived.

And I thought the coolest guy was Thelonious Monk.

Or maybe Lenny Bruce.

Or my Dad.

[ddeclue]

5. Their questions have problems...

The "wall of separation" question - yes Jefferson did write about this but they are being far too literal in saying that the Constitution does not also separate religion and government.

Also I really doubt that we spend more on Social Security than we do on the military considering that we are spending 12 billion a month just on the two wars we are fighting, not to mention the normal $400 billion we spend on the regular Defense budget - did the factor in the cost of the war?

I got 75% because I missed these two questions.

Doug D.

[madmusic]

32. And doesn't the 14th Amendment prohibit discrimination? n/t

[ProdigalJunkMail]

40. nope...

From FindLaw :

U.S. Constitution: Fourteenth Amendment

Fourteenth Amendment - Rights Guaranteed Privileges and Immunities of Citizenship, Due Process and Equal Protection

Amendment Text

Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section. 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section. 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section. 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section. 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

[madmusic]

44. Yes it does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_protection

Just because the freepers tried to work around it to keep Jim Crow laws doesn't mean "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws" was not intended to prevent discrimination.

And the SCOTUS makes the final determination on what the constitution means, and say that is what means, not BushCo and the freepers, even if they wish it were so.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

52. please understand I am just being picky

and not trying to start anything...but the 14th amendment is technically not part of the Bill of Rights which were the first ten amendments (which is what the question asked). And secondly, it prohibits states from discriminating not individuals or corporations.

sP

[lonestarnot]

45. Title 7, USC; ADA (American's With Disabilities) all taking in

lots of water.

[madmusic]

47. They are torpedoing the 14th, always have. n/t

[0rganism]

56. it's not in the Bill of Rights, if you're talking about #4

only the first 10 qualify as the "Bill of Rights"

[BigMcLargehuge]

42. I missed the same two as you did

and for the exact same reasons.

[patricia92243]

6. I'm too ashamed to even say what my score was :(

[madmusic]

35. Or maybe you were right and the test is full of it? n/t

[laylah]

38. ditto...

[VTMechEngr]

8. 88% - Blew the last question.

Oh well. Still well above the curve.

[deadparrot]

64. Me, too. nt

[ComerPerro]

14. This test sounds like Conservative propaganda

I mean, come on.

It reminds us that Separation of Church and State is not in the Constitution, gives unfair wording to a progressive tax while giving favorable wording to a flat tax, lists Communists as an option for Saddam's supporters, and falsely claims that our biggest expense is on Social Security, and not Defense and Military spending (how many billion do we spend on each every year?)

[sandnsea]

18. Depends on how its calculated

When you include total spending with all tax revenue, including FICA, ssi is the largest expense. When you break social security out, then defense becomes the largest. Everything in that test was accurate and it shouldn't matter what ones politics are, people should know their facts.

[ComerPerro]

28. an accurate test can still be biased

it seems obvious that they are trying to use their questioning to steer people toward a certain way of thinking.

[tocqueville]

19. here are the ones that made the survey

http://www.isi.org/about/our_leadership/leadership.html

[ComerPerro]

24. I fucking knew it

[madmusic]

34. So, it's bullshit! I knew it too!

We ought to raise hell over this.

[lumberjack_jeff]

30. Saying that Social Security is where government spends most its money

Is like saying that "withdrawals" are where banks spend most of their money.

Social security is insurance, Social security taxes are premiums and the expenditures are benefits.

[madmusic]

33. Exactly!

Kind of explains polls, too, and how wording matters.

[beyurslf]

15. 88...missed thelast.

Badly worded last question.

[union_maid]

16. 88%

I had to be different and blow the first question, rather than the last one. Well, American History was, oh...let's see...about forty years ago. I guessed Battle of Saratoga. Wrong.

[sandnsea]

17. 100% - easy test

Although I wasn't sure between military and ssi on the last one.

[Ninja Jordan]

21. 100%

the last one was kind of tricky.

[lumberjack_jeff]

22. Heh heh heh. Who's your daddy? 100% for me w/o googling

Post this to free republic and see how many they get right. :rofl:

I only had to guess a little.

[Fountain79]

23. 88% The last question threw me off....

this report is just sad sad sad. It is shocking how many people my age and younger are so woefully ignorant of civics.

[Finder]

31. 88%..got the last question wrong...n/t

[sutz12]

39. Seems to be a consensus....88% for me last question :) nt

[madmusic]

41. Supreme Court decisions

The phrase "separation of church and state" became a definitive part of Establishment Clause jurisprudence in Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947). Everson also was the first case to interpret the Clause as imposing a restraint on the states as well as the federal government, based upon the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

In 1962, the Supreme Court banned from public schools all public prayers and religious readings done for religious purposes. The Supreme Court continued to allow private prayer. As such, any teacher, faculty, or student can pray in school, in accordance with their own religion. However, they may not lead such prayers in class, or in other "official" school settings such as assemblies or programs. Even "non-sectarian" teacher-led prayers are not allowed, e.g. "Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers, and our country," which was part of the prayer required by the New York State Board of Regents prior to the decision of the Warren Court in Engel v. Vitale.

The court noted that it "is a matter of history that this very practice of establishing governmentally composed prayers for religious services was one of the reasons which caused many of our early colonists to leave England and seek religious freedom in America." <6>

As authorized by state law, the "Almighty God" prayer had followed the teacher-led pledge of allegiance to the flag, which consisted of the following: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." The pledge did not contain the words "Under God" until 1954, when Congress added them to the pledge. While the Court banned the "Almighty God" prayer, whose purported purpose was to "acknowledge the dependence of our people and our Government upon the moral directions of the Creator," it did not deliberate upon the "Under God" pledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States#Supreme_Court_decisions

[ProdigalJunkMail]

54. what question on the 'test' is this referring to?

that 'wall of separation' thingy is not mentioned here so I guess it is not about that. And this express says that prayer IS allowed in public schools. I guess a lot of the problem with this test is the way that it is worded and it is probably that wording that proves many people have a problem taking tests. I have a friend who could tell you more than you ever wanted to know about fiber optic networks, but he could not pass a simple test because he got all tangled up in the wording.

sP

[Marie26]

43. 100%

Potential Congressmen should have to take this test & report.

[madmusic]

46. If you got 100% you've been brainwashed by the Right! n/t

[spoony]

66. That's just stupid

You've posted about a dozen times how much you hate the quiz, we get it. It asked where the phrase about separation came from and you got it wrong, get over it. Knowing about Baathists, Yorktown, etc doesn't make someone brainwashed just because you didn't get 100.

[fleabert]

48. missed the last one only...88%. nt

[treestar]

49. 88%, the last question was wrong because SS is separate and

workers pay into it, so it is not just a pure outlay on the part of government.

[northzax]

50. I would argue with the premise of the last question

technically, Social Security is not a government payout, it is a retirement plan that people invest in and pays out. benefits. just a quibble.

[immoderate]

51. I got the last one wrong too.

I think it's still debatable. First, as noted above, SS is a separate fund. Second, as also noted above, much of our military payout is hidden in other areas. For instance, nuclear weapons are in the energy department. I assume that some of our space defenses are similarly displaced, and they are expensive.

--IMM

[noonwitch]

55. I also missed the last question

I thought foreign aid was more costly than social security.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

57. Test is biased.

Clearly towards conservative issues.

The "wall of seperation of church and state" is a quote from Thomas Jefferson's letters, but it's about the first amendment of the Constitution. The test asks about the idea, not the actual quote.

Furthermore, the first amendment barring establishment of religion in government would also bar organized prayer in public school, since it's a government institution.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

60. if I may take issue

Yes, the test is biased. On that there can be no doubt. But all tests are biased by the author whether it is the author's intent or not. The idea of the 'wall' did come from Jefferson as the 1st amendment simply prohibits the government from making laws about religions and religious practices. It never mentions that the two have nothing to do with one another. And while it DOES bar organized prayer in schools (provided they are sponsored or lead by an employee of the gov't) it does not prohibit prayer in school...as the question asks.

I know I am just being picky...but I have had to take a tank-load of tests over the years and I have had to learn to disregard the bias that I know is there in some cases...and accommodate it in others.

Just my two cents...

sP

OnEdit : for grammar Please note that this edit in no way guarantees that the entire text is error free. :-)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

62. Ah, but...

when it said "Constitution" they weren't clear on if they meant the U.S. Constitution or the constitution of Paraguay.

:eyes:

Yes, they implied the U.S. constitution. And when you say things like "prayer in public schools" you're implying organized prayer, and not some private meeting being held in the school building after hours.

And to say the test is biased because all tests are biased is a cop out. This test is full of shit.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

63. excellent point...assuming Paraguay has a constitution

But the other bits make the point for me. It is YOUR bias that says organized prayer...you have no idea what they are implying, especially if you don't know the test writers. Now, if you do, then you can make some inferrence. But with anonymity you cannot assume bias.

Example from this test regarding the prayer in school issue from this question :

4. The Bill of Rights explicitly prohibits:

Prayer in public school
Discrimination based on race, sex, and religion
The ownership of guns by private individuals
Establishing an official religion for the United States
The President from vetoing a line item in a spending bill

If this question is written by a well-meaning liberal, you might assume that they are trying to prove the point that no one has tried to ban prayer in school and that the Constitution actually protects it as long as it is not school sponsored. Just as well, a tricksy neocon might be trying to say that the libs are trying to ban all prayer in school based on what they interpret the 1st amendment to the Constitution as saying.

I hear what you are saying, but this test and its answers are factually correct if the bias of the question writers is overlooked.

sP (and there is no need to roll your eyes at me... :-) )

[0rganism]

58. 100% -- although I have a lot of issues with the last question

since that "pay-out" is essentially repaying money we loaned them over the course of our working lives.

[rasputin1952]

59. 100%...but then again i am a history/polisci junkie...

:)


FWIW...the last question only asked what was the highest Federal expenditure, it did not ask it as a seperate issue, ie FICA tax etc...and the largest payout is SS from the Gov't, regardless of where the funds come from.

[lawladyprof]

61. Organization sponsoring is RW think-tank

Intercollegiate Studies Institute-Check out what People for the American Way has to say about it.

Results released simultaneously with Margaret Spellings call for standardized testing in higher education.

Some of the questions, although technically correct, appear to have been framed from a conservative perspective.

List of donors to institute include many individuals who have financed other conservative organizations
(see People for the American Way website).

First issue discussed in Conclusion section was the positive effect of having an intact family on students’ scores.

[pscot]

65. I got 'em all right

Does that mean I get my country back?

[spoony]

67. No it means you're brainwashed! See above!

[AngryAmish]

68. 100% - S-M-R-T

[obnoxiousdrunk]

69. Hey I got

100% on my second attempt. On my first I got whatever W's IQ is.

[myrna minx]

70. 88%. I got the last one wrong, even through I do believe that

our biggest expenditure is military.

[Greyhound]

71. 100% thanks to the heads up.

Their answer to #8 is a weasel since it is only true using the official (fraudulent) numbers.