The Democratic Party remains the best vehicle for getting our country back

[bigtree]

Despite the politics (and reality) of the 'torture' vote, there is no other alternative to electing our party's candidates which will move the republicans out of the majority. And, don't give me that shit about there being no difference between them because of individual votes we may disagree with. There are committee chairmanships setting the agenda on issues like health care, the environment, energy, defense, agriculture, housing, science and technology, intelligence, transportation and infrastructure, and more. To be in control of those chairmanships means increased oversight.

Remember, despite what the leadership says about impeachment, there will be ample opportunity to press that issue with the inquiries which go with the majority oversight and subpoena power. The majority gets to decide what legislation makes it to the floor, what amendments will be included , what amendments and bills prevail in cloture votes and the rest. And . . . impeachment proceedings MUST originate in the House; our best hope in November.

There is much more at stake than this one vote on torture. Even though it must seem like the party abandoned its supporters on this, the fact remains that the Democrats have every opportunity to come back and strip the objectionable provisions out of the legislation. They will try before the election, and they will put their majority status behind the effort when we elect them in the numbers we need to take over.

Don't let ANYONE convince you that somehow now is the time to turn your back on your party. If anything, yesterday's vote makes it all the more important that we get the majority back so we can begin to undo all of the meddling that the Bush regime has fostered, encouraged, and bullied out of legislators with the help of their republican enablers.

Politics is a hard and frustrating endeavor. If it were easy, we wouldn't be fighting so hard. The only way to make a difference is to stay involved and active. I'm staying put with my party and I urge all of our hard working members to do the same, no matter how many times their actions fly in our faces. As my old friend, Guy Washington used to say, "good always leaves, but bad comes to stay."

I'm not going anywhere.

[RangerSmith]

1. "I'm not going anywhere."

You can bet everything you have they are all counting on that.

[DancingBear]

7. Ain't that the truth

"I promise, hon, I'll never hit you again. I love you."

[mmonk]

2. The only vehicle.

That being said, they need to be sent a message should we succeed that we will not tolerate torture and violations of the constitution or any other laws that have transpired without an all out fight so far.

[bigtree]

6. I listened carefully to the legislators who I respect as they reasoned

I'm completely lost on why they felt they had to go along with this. The politics of it, however, from where I stand, is clear. We have to stay engaged and active. They need to feel pressure, but, they shouldn't take more of the blame and grief than we give the republicans and Bush. Hit them first, I say. We'll take care of our own later.

[JCMach1]

3. Not going anywhere either... but I am sick of the Dems enabling the

bastard////

sick!

[Hubert Flottz]

5. It is hard to stand by and watch!

And I have a LONG memory!

[mtnester]

4. I am not going anywhere either - HOWEVER

nor will I sit back and let someone try and tell me a turd is a beautiful flower. That includes a Dem.

Voting for torture to keep your job does NOT represent the view of the party..or does it? No one wants to be out of a job..understandable...but at what cost? And based on the newest wording of the turd being voted on and presented, it is conceivable that someone who voted while holding their nose FOR the person who wanted to keep their job at all costs to humanity and our democracy, could become a VICTIM of the vote for the beautiful flower.

Bleh.

[bigtree]

8. We have to get our party over the finish line

beating the donkey in the home stretch of the race won't make it run any faster or harder.

[bigtree]

9. bink

[gully]

10. I'm not going anywhere, but Dems who supported this shit should be, in

two years - when we have time to replace them with the "Ned Lamont's" of the world. This vote is inexcusable.

[H2O Man]

11. Nominated.

It is important to have an understanding of what the role of the progressive democrat is. We are not the majority within the party. It would be an error to either think or act as if we are. Our job is to be the voice of conscience, and to work in a way that allows the minority of progressive democrats within the House and Senate to have the ability to make our voice heard.

[bigtree]

12. you know . . .

the issues I've represented over the years have never found an easy majority of support. If they see you coming they erect barriers. The majority is invaluable, but it's no guarantee of success. Advocacy in Congress has to be sustained, and continuous if you care at all about the longevity or integrity of the remedy.

I always cringe when we get to the end of these confrontations in the republican House. We know what the outcome is. We also can predict defections from the hyper-accountable members. It's a political bunch in that body.

But, I'm watching the Senate now. It's an amazing institution. A deliberative one; albeit that it's corrupted by craven zealots. They will have their hand at amendments . . . and obstruction. If it gets through with too many amendments it could come apart in conference; get tabled.

We've got to stay in the game. This isn't so much of a street fight as it is a chess match. That's the system, with our party at a numerical disadvantage, with less players.

I still get disappointed when I expect miracles out of this equation, though. But, shit happens.

[LoZoccolo]

13. Not going anywhere, plus I've been getting RID of TRAITORS on DU.

A lot of them have been getting the red X:



Don't let these TRAITORS have another minute of your time; from what I can tell they RARELY knock it off.

They should be GLAD I put them on ignore, or I'd be alerting their traitorous posts.

[bigtree]

14. there will always be folks in despair who need to find reasons to continue

to fight with our party, if they in fact are to continue.

Their dissent can be directed into action against the Senate and their crack at this bill. They seem to be standing in the way so far. I would appreciate their obstinance if it puts a fire under our leadership as this rag attempts to move forward. I don't see value in scorched earth opposition if it means that our prospects for taking back control will get hurt in November. So many more of these types of bills (which will surely come with a continued republican majority) have the potential for coming up in Congress if we fail.

[tomreedtoon]

15. I'm in the vehicle, but I want someone behind the wheel.

I agree in working that the Democratic Party should gain votes in 2006 and gain the Presidency in 2008. But damn it, there are a lot of angry Democrats out here that think there's morons in the driver's seat!

Might I suggest that every DU'er who can - who has time and energy and can afford to take time from family and work - try to become a delegate to the Democratic Convention? Try to push through platform planks against the torture bill, against anti-labor racketeering, and against a free ride for corporations. At least make a hell of a lot of noise about the way the party should be run!

[MrCoffee]

16. I haven't turned my back on the Dems, they turned their backs on me.

[BelgianMadCow]

17. in the short term

[MrCoffee]

18. The Declaration of Independence is the best vehicle. n/t

[DemReadingDU]

19. morning kick