My Harold Ford Jr. Yard Sign Comes Down Today

[spanone]

The son of a bitch voted for TORTURE. He's no fucking democrat of mine.

[leftchick]

1. good for you!

mail it back to him with traitor torturer written on it!

[spanone]

2. Good Idea. I'm so goddamed pissed off.

[Swamp Rat]

4. EXCELLENT idea!

DO IT!!! :mad:

[skipos]

118. Woo hoo! Corker 06!

:eyes:

[mod mom]

3. Sherrod Brown (OH) just lost 2 votes in my household. I will NOT

support ANYONE who puts their name to torture. I hope these bastards are charged with war crimes.

[leftchick]

him too?

the darling of the democrats in Ohio voted for torture? :puke:

[bowens43]

8. Cut off your nose to spite your face. That's the ticket!

[calico1]

22. Yeah, that's the ticket!

Let's let Republicans stay in total power. That'll show the Democrats. We will screw ourselves and lose what little is left of Democracy but we will make a point! :eyes:

[Toots]

35. If Democrats vote like Republicans just what would be the difference?

You know that if you have a choice between two evils and say you are voting for the lessor of the two you still end up voting for evil and I am sick of it. I would rather just not vote or participate in anything that is going on in politics in America...

[calico1]

52. Some of wha they vote for also

pisses me off. But the Republicans control EVERYTHING. Also, Ford is from a very Red area. The more seats we lose, and the more Republicans gain and longer they are in power the less chance we will ever have of reinstating Democratic policies. We need to get control first. We will NEVER do that by letting Republicans stay in power.

[warrens]

111. You might get 90 percent of what is right instead of ZERO, perhaps? Nt

[BeachBuckeye]

77. If we are going to have Democrats in power that believe torture is ok

then what the hell makes the difference?

[Clark2008]

90. Ford is pro-choice, pro-woman and pro-improving public education

Corker, his freepy challenger, is not.

That's the difference.

[goclark]

85. Hope the posterf Takes the sign down but still VOTES for him

He is so close to winning, silly, IMO, cut off your nose for the Republicans!

[calico1]

99. The thing is that either Ford will win or

the Repuke will win. Not voting for Ford means one less vote for him which is like one more vote for the puke. So which is better? Because if Ford doesn't get elected, the Repuke will. These "lessons" some DU'ers insist on teaching Democrats make me insane! :banghead:

[goclark]

132. Makes me crazy too!

[proud2BlibKansan]

116. My Dem congressman votes like a neocon!

He is a DINO. Trust me, he isn't doing a thing to promote Democratic ideals. He is a waste of a Dem in DC. A waste.

[LynneSin]

29. Enabling republicans to win - I'm guessing that's yours?

As I've stated about 2 brazillian times - I vote for Tom Carper (hypocrite who has no clue what it means to support the damn democratic party with his liberman endorsement) because I want Barbara Boxer, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Russ Feingold, Patrick Leahy, Dick Durbin, Carl Levin, Barack Obama and a host of other absolutely amazing democrats that I adore to have the power of the committees to finally turn this thing around.

This is an absolute no-brainer vote for me. I'm not pulling the lever for Carper, I'm pulling it for the democratic majority!

[Tesha]

68. Have they "pulled the lever" for you lately, Lynne?

On what issue(s)?

Tesha

[LynneSin]

94. Even if they've only pulled the level 25% of the time for me

That's still 25% more than what the Republicans have done.

I wish we had a system that allowed for a competitive 3rd party, but we don't. And my disgust for the republican party is so absolutely far-gone horrible that I would rather pull that level for the democrats. Should they get majority I'll be here bitching as much as the next person but I'll sleep a bit better knowing that they'll start to make some of the changes we need in the country.

[mod mom]

37. I hope all those who supported this will be held partially responsible

for war crimes. I don't care what his reasoning. This is about human decency.

[zanne]

40. Well said.

What's wrong is wrong. The truth is the truth.

[Tesha]

66. At some point, one either has principles or one doesn't.

Continually supporting representatives who vote in
direct opposition to positions you hold dear would
seem to show a lack of principles.

Tesha

[Eric J in MN]

126. Voting for a candidate is MINIMAL support.

It just means that he's at least a drop better than his opponent.

One doesn't need to volunteer or donate to people who voted for this bill, but refusing to vote for Democrats hurts the party.

[liberal1973]

101. I agree with you.

Some saying not to vote at all-rove would love that. Ford isn't even close like that corrupt piece of crap corker. Ford all the way.

[LynneSin]

16. So you want another 6 years of DeWine

Geez, I still can't figure out why Brown voted the way he did. This is a guy who voted against the IWR in 2003 AND both Patriot Act votes. He's one of the most liberal members of the house.

I don't understand this vote, but then again I still don't understand why Feingold supported Ashcroft or Roberts either. But if I had to vote in their states - there would be no amount of money for me to vote against them

[IndyOp]

33. A vote for Brown is a vote for Conyers & Kucinich.

John Conyers will be the ranking member of the Judiciary Committee when the Dems take the house and he already has prepared a 300-page document cataloging the many illegal actions taken by Bush and Cheney. Conyers cut his legal teeth on the Nixon impeachment. He is READY. Kucinich will be the ranking member of an important International Relations committee. Dennis Kucinich - the man who people have laughed at for decades for proposing an official, cabinet level "Department of Peace".

VOTE CONYERS & KUCINICH.

VOTE BLUE.

[mod mom]

50. Conyers and Kucinich would NEVER vote for fascism. Just as Brown voted

for something I hold morally repugnant, any support through my vote would be tied to condoning this.

[IndyOp]

62. Do what you need to do. Keep in mind that if others do as you are

doing we will wind up with Republican Reps who will condone far, far worse. I bet there are some detention camps in Ohio ready to go - I know there are camps in Indiana.

Turn the House Blue and let's repeal this nightmare of a law and then a whole bunch more.

Kucinich is the man who fought the Patriotic Act and every step that has been taken in this nasty downward spiral. A vote for Brown is a vote to put Kucinich in a power position so that he can stop this spiral - with OUR help.

[mod mom]

76. I would rather end up in a detention camp than support torture-period.

[IndyOp]

81. You have a point there, MM... : (

Morality in a time of insanity isn't easy.

I called Reid. I called Bayh.

Thanks!

:cry:

[mod mom]

86. I realize those here are against torture-but we have to draw the line

somewhere. Principles over party. NO TORTURE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES! It is a very sad day.

:cry:

[Eric J in MN]

125. A vote is a choice between two candidates.

It's not support like a donation.

I decided not to donate any more to Sherrod Brown, but if I were in Ohio I'd vote for him.

[Eric J in MN]

127. You aren't supporting torture by voting for one of the candidates

...who voted for this bill instead of the other.

An election is a choice between two candidates.

You probably showed your opposition to torture in other ways.

I understand not-donating and not-volunteering for Sherrod Brown, but we need to vote for Democrats for the sake of getting a majority and being able to investigate Bush.

[Eric J in MN]

124. Sherrod Brown is a Rep. running for US Senate. (NT)

NT

[skipos]

119. Woo hoo! Dewine 06!

:eyes:

[mod mom]

121. No vote for senator. 2 Choices that advocate torture and voted to suspend

habeus corpus. Sorry-not for me.

[skipos]

123. 1. vote for a Democratic majority and a better senator for OH

2. miss the opportunity to get a Democratic majority and a better senator for OH.

Very easy to see what the best choice is. Then again, I am not one to cut off my nose to spite my face.

[Eric J in MN]

122. If I were in Ohio, I would still vote for him, but not give him other...

...support.

A vote is minimal support. It just means that he's better than the Republican.

[bowens43]

5. If you don't support Democrats you are the problem.

It's about numbers if we don't take back at least the house nothing will change. If you don't support Ford and the Dems lose then you may as well have voted republican.

[Richardo]

25. The 'purity test' people do not understand this.

I swear, on both sides there are those that put political platforms on the same level as religious dogma.

These people do not understand politics at all.

Do I like that Ford voted for the bill? No. But I'll bet he'd listen to my complaint more than John Cornyn or Kay Bailey Hutchison in MY state would.

And seat count means everything. Everything. I'll take Zell Miller if he keeps the (D) after his name.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. That sounds like a "purity test" to me.

Perhaps the problem you see isn't that some people do understand politics and self-serving politicians who will back unconscionable and immoral laws.

[Richardo]

46. It's not a purity test. It's expediency to a nauseating level...

...and I hate it.

But you gotta keep an eye on the greater good, which is being in charge of setting the legislative agenda, subpoena power, committee chairs, acting as a check on executive power, etc.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

53. Well, some of us are not "expedient" enough to condone torture.

Unlike the Repugs and Dems who voted for it.

[Richardo]

54. Fine.

Keep your Republicans.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

59. Fortunately my rep voted against torture.

As did all the reps(D) from my state. Apparantly, they found it "experdient" to stand up for humanity.

[Botany]

6. Look I know you are mad .... I am @ Brown in Ohio too but

that bill was also a trap for anybody who voted against it. If Ford had
voted against it he would have been shown 24/7 in ads as being weak in
the war on terror.

Big picture please keep the sign up and after he wins then we get the laws
changed.

I know this is not the best idea but it is politic of "the real."

peace

[peacetalksforall]

15. He had a chance to be a hero. Those are our kids out there.

Is it unhonorable to defend yourself 24/7?

Do we just pass the blame to Republicans for their control and let it all be forgotten?

I prefer heroes.

[mod mom]

56. Botany, this is morally reprehensible under ANY condition, as is any

support of it.

[kstewart33]

7. Give the guy a break, will ya?

He's fighting for his life as an underdog in a Southern state, and he's black. Having grown up in Alabama in the sixties, I can understand his vote. I don't like it, but I understand it.

[spanone]

11. You're kidding, right?

[Clark2008]

91. No (s)he's not and you should know better in this state.

Tennessee has been red far too long now.

[kstewart33]

112. No, I'm not.

The Supreme Court will reject this pile of dung that Congress will pass today.

[Javaman]

18. Exactly how do you understand his vote? Please explain?

I'll be waiting with anticipation for your response.

[Lurking Dem]

32. This is often done in an election year.

The Republicans have actually been masters of this.

A bill comes before the house that makes it very tricky for a Democrat to vote "no" on without his opponent riding roughshod in ad after ad proclaiming him "weak on terror".

A plan is either formulated or firm knowledge exists that the version that goes through the Senate will either be extremely diluted (or in the Republican's case a signing statement will be issued) or totally defeated.

That leaves them free to vote for the proposal knowing full well it won't pass.

Almost nothing that happens on the Hill happens on the floor of the House or the Senate. It happens in closed door meetings and cloakrooms.

I am hopeful that this is what was done here.

[zanne]

42. NO!

We have to draw the line somewhere, and right now that line is TORTURE. No excuses. None.

[Javaman]

49. Exactly. Parsing words and splitting hairs does nothing but

play into the repukes hands. Taking a stand, saying no to torture is what needs to be done.

Personally, what gets me, I honestly can't believe that in this day in age we have to have a serious discussion regarding whether or not to torture? how insane is that?

No torture, period.

It's better to stand on principle and lose then to give up ones integrity and win.

[Lurking Dem]

57. Don't get me wrong

I feel very squicky about this vote.

There was a poll in the City Paper on who were you going to vote for. It came out 48% Ford, 25% Corker and 25% Undecided. I was just offering a possible explanation. (Maybe a hopeful explanation.)

But, yes, at some point people need to stand the eff up and say, "This is the Constitution I was sworn to defend!"

It's just I live in Tennessee and Corker is a nightmare from which we will never recover if he is elected.

[LynneSin]

9. So you would rather have the republican represent you

There is no third party option that has any chance of winning in this election so voting for one simply is enabling republicans especially in a close race like this.

We all knew that Harold Ford Jr was pretty moderate but he's still a "D" in the win column we need to retake that seat. Hell my democratic senator up for re-election, Tom Carper, endorced LIEBERMAN AFTER the primary was overwith. I'll vote for Carper because I believe in so many of the senators in DC who are fighting this administration and I want to give them the majority and control of the committees.

Primaries are over with - time to win this big in November

[H2O Man]

13. " n/t

[ronnykmarshall]

103. Amen!

You said it, sister!

[Cassandra]

10. And when repukes win...

and implement more torture, instead of a Dem win which would enable to law to be repealed, what will you have accomplished? By all means, send him an angry letter expressing your disgust, but don't lose sight of what's at stake here.
This is how it started in Germany; the laws being changed in small increments until the law allowed Hitler to do whatever he wanted. This may be our last chance to stop them. Let's go for better this time. Then we'll have an opportunity to vote for the truly good (perfection not being available).

[spanone]

14. I wrote him a letter, I sent him an email. I will not support him on this.

He already has been a hawk on the war. This draws the line.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

24. how is a dem voting for torture different from a GOP voting for it?

that's the part I don't get.
If ford approved this, to hell with him.

[Cassandra]

31. A Democratic majority in Congress...

will not create more laws like this (did you think this is the worst that might come down the pike?). They will investigate this war criminal administration. They will resist repuke impulses to put us all in camps. The freedom you save may be your own. Call it enlightened self interest. We can cull the herd later.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

38. i sincerely and deeply hope that you are correct. I really do. In the

meantime, pardon me while I go off to puke. What the house and senate have done to us - to our country, to our future, to the future torture of our troops, has made me sick to my stomach.

[Cassandra]

78. This may make you feel better...

or not.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2006_09_01_digbysblog_archive.html#115944912295724580

"The truth is that the United States government is presently holding, torturing, and even murdering countless numbers of people who have no chance in hell of obtaining a lawyer, let alone anything resembling a trial. The government is doing this under the direct orders of George W. Bush. There is no law, no bill, and no legislature who can stop him. If Congress were to pass a law unequivocably banning torture and send it to him, he'd use it for toilet paper. If the Supreme Court were to rule against Bush in the harshest and bluntest language, he'd yawn.

The truth is that there is a rogue presidency and there has been, since January, 2001 (earlier, if you count the stolen election). Certainly, everyone in Washington knows it, but no one dares to admit it. The bill legalizing torture merely enables Congress to pretend they still have some influence over an executive that from day one was governing, not as if they had a mandate, but as if Bush was a dictator. If, for some miracle, the bill didn't pass, every congress-critter knows Bush would keep on torturing."

Just in case you think Bushco gives a damn what any of us think.

BTW, he actually agrees that no one should vote for this, but understand that on the other side of that vote is a Constitutional crisis. When Nixon was taken on, there were members of both parties (and a Dem majority) who actually gave a damn about the rule of law.

[atreides1]

48. '..will not create more laws like this.."

That may be true, but the better question is this, if they take back both houses,will they work to repeal these laws, or will they let them stand.

Because if they do take back the congress, then repealing these anti-American laws should be in the top 10 things to do.

If they make no effort to do so, then they really are no different from the Republicans, are they?

[Behind the Aegis]

109. an even better question....

"if they (keep) both houses,will they work to repeal these laws, or will they let them stand."

I think we already know the answer to that question! A resounding NO! Your question is a hypothetical. We really don't know what will happen, but the chance does exist that a Democratic- controlled Congress may roll back several things, including this crap!

As is often attributed to Mae West, "when given the choice of the lesser of two evils, I go with the one I haven't tried."

[Sugarcoated]

73. SO SHORTSIGHTED

Christ. BIGGER PICTURE. TORTURE GONE IF WE WIN BACK THE HOUSE AND SENATE.

If you REALLY CARE about torturing of human beings you are MAKING IT HAPPEN if you don't vote for a Dem and take the power back!

[ShaneGR]

12. 2 More Years! 2 More Years! 2 More Years!

OP is a big reason the Republicans may just hold onto their majority after all. The demand for ideological "purity" on every single issue or vote is ridiculous, if not suicidal.

[spanone]

17. Purity? Fuck me, you call torture ideology purity?

[Javaman]

Right there with you! We as a nation had always respected the

Geneva Conventions. Why suddenly now are we to bend to the wind on this issue?

Torture is torture. No room for negotiation.

Once we start making concessions regarding this issue, the repukes win.

Anyone, dems included, that support any form of torture, at any level are no better than the repukes.

Until someone stands up and tells moron*, "have you no sense of decency?", regarding torture, anyone that votes for it, only furthers its use. Support for it erodes our way of life, standing in the world and degrades the United States morals and ethics further in the worlds eyes.

Any candidate that supports torture, to me, is a weak candidate, unable to see the larger picture.

[shrub chipper]

20. Oh, yes!!

Let's insure that we don't take the Senate.

We will stay in the Minority and let the Repugs ruin the Country, but we WILL be pure!!


Looks like the Rove torture Vote trick is working. You can always count on us to demand purity before success.

[LynneSin]

23. 110% abso-fucking-lutely dead on straight

Hell I'm voting for a guy who is endorsing Joe Lieberman. You think I'm keen about that - Hell NO! Do you think I'd fight for another candidate in the primary if we actually had time to get one on the ticket - Hell Yes!! You think I'd vote republican, vote 3rd party or just not vote - what, you think I'm a brain dead idiot that doesn't realize what's a stake this election?

I'm voting for Tom Carper but in 2012 I'm finding him a replacement!

[DancingBear]

47. "Honest, I'll give up cigarettes tomorrow"

"Just let me have one more today"

You won't quit.

You can't.

You've been snookered into believing that THIS time it matters, and that NEXT time you'll really go after them!

You could vote your conscience in November, but you just can't.

It's been six years - what have they done for you?

Show me something. Point me to a united front. On anything.

They are talking about legalizing TORTURE, and I'm to believe the folks who helped red-carpet Alito, Roberts and Gonzales in the front door hold a moral high ground???

It's a shell game, you're losing your shirt, and the pea is nowhere to be seen.

Damn cigarettes are a bitch, ain't they?

[LynneSin]

96. So I'll just keep on smoking and kill myself off from god knows what

(and as a gal who lost her father to smoking-related illness - don't go there, it does kill).

I would rather have someone who tries but fails then a party that simple does not try or tries the completely wrong things.

Let's assume the democrats gain some control there is only 1 thing I can be 110% absolutely positive about them in the majority and that is they will fail me not once, not twice but many times over.

But I also know that there will be glimmer from some of the shining stars in our party who have been fighting the system since day #1 and have earned the right to have committee powers that would allow them to do their job more thoroughly.

I know that John Conyers, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee won't have to find unused broom closets to hold his investigations into the war. He'll have majority chair seat and will have those hearings right there in the committee room and the subpoenas he want he will get.

I know that Patrick Leahy has put together a great judiciary committee in the Senate only allowing those members who recognize activist judges and will vote against them. When they had control from 2001-2, we didn't have to worry about filibustering activist judges BECAUSE THEY NEVER GOT OUT OF COMMITTEE!! None of the 'Gang of 14' democrats have ever served on that committee and I highly doubt that Leahy will give them a seat.

Henry Waxman will be chair of the Government oversight committee - I can't even begin to imagine what he's going to do with that = but it's going to be amazing.

I could go on here and more than likely you'll just make up more additional witty analogies to somehow convince me that's it's ok to keep the republican in powers. Don't tell me about voting my conscience because that's exactly what I am doing. This country is a two-party system right here, right now and it's an unfortunately thing. But voting my conscious where voting third party or simple not voting means that I'm ok with the Republicans controlling things.

I know the democrats are extremely flawed, but even on their absolutely worst days out there, I know that they'll still better represent me than republicans ever have and ever will

[blue neen]

117. Excellent post, LynneSin.

If I could nominate a single post for greatest page, this would be it.

[BeachBuckeye]

79. "Every single issue"?

Tell me what important issues the Democrats have fought tooth and nail for in the past few years? They yap a while and then fold. I've been a Democrat all of my life (have never voted for a Republican) but I'm so pissed at the Party right now I don't know what to do.

I highly respect Sharrod Brown. I had him as a guest on my program recently and have endorsed him. But, I am sick at heart about his vote on this issue. I never dreamed he'd do this.

[Hubert Flottz]

19. Karl is going to get a stiffy reading this kind of shit!

Any democrat is far better than a TOTAL Repig. Let's win back congress and then we can fire the shitheads.

[spanone]

21. Remember to vote you conscience. Have you none??????

[LynneSin]

26. Oh hell yes I have a conscience - why do you think I vote democratic?

And I know that there is no way this country can survive any longer with republicans controlling the house, the senate, the white house and pretty soon the judicial bench.

Kinda overpowers the whole bill doesn't it?

[Hubert Flottz]

27. I have one and I'm pissed, but I ain't crazy!

Hand them another election on a platter, over a wedge issue and they will go right on doing even worse shit. Stop the stampede FIRST and then deal with our trash!

[merwin]

64. Torture is a wedge issue?

Since when? i think pretty much everyone is against torture.

[Hubert Flottz]

69. I don't think the GOP is against torture...

And I think that anything the Rovebots can do, to keep you from voting for a democrat of ANY stripe, is a win for them.

If we fail to gain control of congress this time, you may not ever get to vote for anyone again, after Bush declares himself KING and does away with elections.

[roody]

28. Good for you!!

Let's free ourselves from the one-party state. Not joking.

[Hubert Flottz]

34. Yeah Right Jim...

[IndyOp]

30. Put the sign back up, please - A vote for Ford is a vote for Conyers &

Kucinich. John Conyers will be the ranking member of the Judiciary Committee when the Dems take the house and he already has prepared a 300-page document cataloging the many illegal actions taken by Bush and Cheney. Conyers cut his legal teeth on the Nixon impeachment. He is READY. Kucinich will be the ranking member of an important International Relations committee. Dennis Kucinich - the man who people have laughed at for decades for proposing an official, cabinet level "Department of Peace".

VOTE CONYERS & KUCINICH.

VOTE BLUE.

[Javaman]

43. A simple question for you...

Do Conyers and Kucinich support torture?

[IndyOp]

61. HELL NO - Kucinich IS the peace candidate and Conyers IS the man who

respects the Constitution and who has fought the battle for true justice in our society since his time with Dr. King. Peace & justice are part of a whole cloth. It is actually pretty damned amazing that these men who were inspired by the peace & justice movements of the 60's are now in a position to hold power that could help us bring about the world we want.

By the way here is the cover of Warrior King: The Case for Impeaching George Bush -- with a forward from John Conyers.

[Javaman]

83. So how is voting for Ford who supports torture a vote for

Conyers and Kucinich, when they clearly don't?

The concept of to torture or not to torture is the defining issue of hand for our nation. This moment in time will be looked back upon as a dark era. It will be either heralded as one by which people stood up and said no to torture or it will be looked upon as a time when the beginning of the end of democracy was set into motion.

Those who promote the continuance of torture will pay in the end by becoming victims of the policy in which they support.

It is sad times indeed when we as a nation, when we as voters have to choose to elect leaders that have voted on a measure for torture to make a political point.

I weep for this country.

[IndyOp]

84. There is no single defining moment - there is always a series...

SCOTUS decision in 2000

Roberts and Alito on SCOTUS

$$ to Halliburton for Iraq and detention camps in the US

Corrupt Republican Bob Ney writes HAVA

Torture photos from Abu Ghraib released and no riots in the street

Katrina kills, while the US Government practices malign neglect, and today 73,000 citizens live in FEMA trailers in a camp surrounded by barb wire.

There is NO DOUBT that the Dem Senators should FILIBUSTER this or at the very least SHUT THE SENATE DOWN entirely.

If they don't then there is no magical drop off a cliff, no "end" - there is just the next battle.

[Javaman]

87. So by that logic, what's one more thing right?

Sorry doesn't work for me. Torture is torture. Anyone that promotes it, supports or votes for it, will never ever get my vote or support.

[IndyOp]

100. But by your logic - if this one thing happens, then you quit, give up -

Nevermind. If this one thing happens, then it is ALL OVER - as so many DUers like to dramatically say. It is never all over.

[Javaman]

102. don't put words in my mouth, by my own admission I don't vote for people

who endorse torture. Period. You by supporting Ford, do.

[Freddie Stubbs]

105. Ford is running for the Senate--Conyers and Kucinich are in the House

[Freddie Stubbs]

107. Dupe

[zanne]

36. Good for you.

I applaud you for having the courage of your convictions.

[spanone]

39. To be honest, I will probably vote for him for all your reasons.

But I will not have his sign in my yard.

[Individualist]

44. Kudos to you, spanone

Ignore the DLC supporters who have flocked to this thread with their worn out memes. No war criminal will get my vote either.

Tom Robbins would be proud of you. :) (See my sig line.)

[cboy4]

45. Write him and tell him his position(s) make you want to vomit.

And then go to the polls, hold your nose, and vote for him knowing he will be better than the (R) alternative.

But I understand your anger!!

[NoPasaran]

51. Having to settle for the lesser of two evils sucks

But it still beats the greater of two evils.

[obreaslan]

55. Exactly!!! He voted for Torture, I'm sure Corker would vote against it...

So why not vote for him. :sarcasm:

You are enabling a repuke by not voting Democratic. I would much rather see the Senate run by the Democrats in January, wouldn't you? :shrug:

[spanone]

58. You are assuming I would vote for Corker. You are dead wrong.

[rockymountaindem]

82. By not voting for Ford, you are voting for Corker

The candidate with the most votes wins, y'know....

[indepat]

60. Ford deserves to lose his Senate bid to a man who likely will be even more

extreme to the right on all issues: we are truly forever fucked. Goodbye Republic, long live the King.

[msongs]

63. people who stand for nothing will fall for anything - nt

[Tesha]

65. They (our elected Democrats) are not very bright, are they? (NT)

[KharmaTrain]

67. The End Game

IMHO, the fact we have to even debate or have a vote on this issue describes how things have gone downhill. My Congressperson, as I suspected, voted for this despecable bill...but it's the lesser of evils.

Up front, this is not a defense, but an attempt to talk "hardball" here. This vote wasn't proposed by Ford or Brown or any Democrat and was forced for a vote at this late date to try to create some ammo against vulnerable or what could be perceived as vulernable seats. While we have taken the time to learn about what this bill entails, the soundbite, pro-Repugnican corporate media has already defined this as a way to "keep the country safe". That the waterboarding of "KSM" (like he's a real pal to us all) prevented other terorist attacks. This argument was framed in the parsing game between booosh & McCain and then to be used in Senate and House races where security was found to be a major issue. A "No" vote here would give Repugnican fodder to go after Ford and others as being "weak" on terrorism and using all the astroturfing that's come out. Remember, these are not solid Blue areas most of these votes came from...they're from "purple" and red areas where Democrats are just gaining footholds and running against well-funded and organized Repugnican organizations.

My hope is that if Democrats gain control of the House, we put the pressure on the leadership to start reversing some, if not all of these draconian rules and laws the rubber stamp Repugnicans have set up. In that case, the same "traitors" or fence sitters or leaners or "DINOs" will line up with the majority. It's amazing what happens when you can set the rules and control the votes. Not only do I suspect many of these Democrats who are covering their asses yesterday will fall into line if the power is shifted...and I'll get even further to say we'll peel off a few Repugnicans as well.

In a perfect world, we should never have a debate about torture or destroying lives and civil liberties. Sadly, the Repugnicans have created the atmosphere where one has to vote for the lesser of evils.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

70. Take it to FreeRepublic.

Or wherever the greens hang out and mentally masturbate.

[William Bloode]

71. I thought about him specifically lastnight.

I was shocked to see his vote when the rolls were posted last night. I am not in his district, or state even. I was just hoping Tennesse electing a man of color to the senate might be a big turning point for Tennesse. Sadly i can now no longer endorse him, donate money, write letters, or speak on his behalf.

I also thought of Sherod Brown and how he was kinda forced on the folks of Ohio, and many here who supported Hackett were told to like it and shut up.

Any politician who votes for this bill is a traitor and should br hauled into jail, period!!!!! :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[zalinda]

72. Okay, you're pissed and you have a right, but

this bill was used as a political tool. If a dem voted yea, he would piss off the left, if he voted no, he was weak on terror. Don't think for a minute that this bill coming up at this time was a coincidence. These are bottom of the barrel people.

For example..... Mike Arcuri(D) is running for a congressional seat in central New York, he has been a really good district attorney for 12 years. So, what do the repubs do? They run an ad saying that he took campaign money from a convicted felon, and when the press found out, he gave the money back. Okay, so now they make him look like a crook. I guess Arcuri should know every felon by name, and so should his staff so they don't take any campaign money from them. This is the ONLY ad they are running against Arcuri, so he must be pretty clean.

The point is, they will use ANYTHING to win. And they have no qualms about pissing off dem 36%ers, hoping that they will stay home and not vote. You have played right into their hands. How does it feel to be manipulated by the right? This was a no win situation for the dems. When they get in power, they can change it. If they don't, scream and holler, and stamp your feet at them, and then go out a recruit someone to run against them that you agree with.

zalinda

[ms liberty]

74. We need them to get control of Congress

Vote for them this time, so we can get control. Then, hound the living hell out of them about every vote and every issue. And if they still vote like neanderthals, get an opposition candidate on the ballot and get rid of them when they come up for re-election.

They only voted for it because they're running for office. Sure it's cowardly, but if we don't get control of Congress in this election, we might not have an election in 08.

WE NEED THEM TO WIN THIS ELECTION - THIS IS PARAMOUNT!

[Sugarcoated]

75. SO SHORTSIGHTED!

Christ. BIGGER PICTURE. TORTURE GONE IF WE WIN BACK THE HOUSE AND SENATE.

If you REALLY CARE about torturing of human beings you are MAKING IT HAPPEN if you don't vote for a Dem and take the power back!

[calico1]

80. Hey, I have an idea!

Let's ALL not vote for any Democratic candidate. Why just send a little message by working to not get Ford elected? We can really send a big message to Democrats if they ALL lose their seats to Republicans! :sarcasm:

[Clark2008]

92. Yeah - just what I want...

I want to (again) be represented by yet another Republican who thinks I'm a second-class citizen because I'm female.

I want to (again) be represented by yet another Republican who will work to take away my right to choose.

I want to (again) be represented by yet another Republican who will try to bleed my public schools dry of funding just so they can splurge on some corporate-funded voucher program.

I want to (again) be represented by yet another Republican who wants to purge the Social Security program and give the money to corporations to rake us over yet another set of coals.

Because, you know, if Ford wins the election, we would be represented by a man who happens to be pro-choice, thinks public schools should be saved and would like to find a way to save Social Security (yes, I know he's open to alternatives, but he hasn't shut anything out).

And, we just wouldn't want that in Tennessee, would we? :sarcasm:

[Clark2008]

88. Great... I guess you want Corker

We really, really don't have another choice, now do we?

[Avalux]

89. Please put it back up. Stay focused on the big picture.

Democrats MUST retake the House and maybe even Congress. The alternative is unbearable, IMHO.

[johnaries]

93. Oh, yeah - I'm sure Corker would have voted against it.

:sarcasm:
Think about what you're doing. Yes, contact Ford's office and let him know how upset you are. But don't let Corker win or we're really f*cked.

[KingFlorez]

95. And let Bob Corker win and vote for Mitch McConnell

This is exactly why Democrats can't win anything, people are ready to throw them overboard when they don't do what they want. Don't complain if the Senate remains Republican after the election.

[cynatnite]

97. You're voting for Corker now?

Don't get me wrong, Ford is almost a repuke by the way he votes so this doesn't surprise me at all, but we need him to win.

Ford is getting my vote and I won't feel the least bit guilty buy it. I want the damn repukes out of power.

[Strelnikov_]

113. In A Two Party System, It Is Essentially A Vote For Corker n/t

[LynneSin]

130. That is the saddest but most correct thing

Clearly we need to overall our voting system and I would love to do my part to help. But with less than 2 months until the election in a critical race where we have to gain back some of congress, third party is not an option. People tell me they vote 3rd party for the conscience, but how can I vote 3rd party knowing full well that this candidate will not only not win but also enable the republican party to win.

This is not a luxury I have in 2006. We had some great battles in the primary and got some great candidates on the ticket. But primaries are overwith - time to pull the big democratic lever

[Mz Pip]

98. IF the Dems take back the

House and Senate then maybe this bill can be repealed. However there is no chance of that happening if the Repugs remain in control.

No chance.

Before we can do much of anything, we have to take back some control. Can't do much remodeling if you don't own the property.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[ronnykmarshall]

104. You tell 'em!!

That's right !! You show that guy buy helping to elect a republican!!!

[helderheid]

106. Why is this thread fine for DU but not one showing

www.democratsfortorture.org ? I am so confused.

[KamaAina]

108. Both Jr. and Brown were probably scared into their votes

still reprehensible, yes, but I'm sure that in the heat of a Senate campaign, both were concerned about a repuke attack ad saying "Sherrod Brown (or Harold Ford Jr.) voted AGAINST the War on Terra. Basically, he voted to give al-Qaida a free pass." as the Dem's face morphs into that of Osama bin Laden. :sarcasm:

That being said, the honorable thing to do under those circumstances would have been to vote "Present", not "I tacitly support torture". :grr:

[Freddie Stubbs]

110. Karl Rove loves that line of thinking

[Proud2BAmurkin]

114. That's a vote for the Tennessee rePUKE

Ford is faced with going along on some issues or losing. When he gets in, he'll act like the Democrat he is

[proud2BlibKansan]

115. I refused to put my Dem rep's sign in my yard too

He not only voted for the torture bill but also for that damn Sensenbrenner bill. And he has voted like a neocon on the war issues. Talk about a DINO. I am so over this man.

[WCGreen]

120. Do you think the other guy wouldn't have voted for the Torture

bill...

For Christ sakes, get a grip on it...

The dems are pushed into such a position on stuff like this...

[Eric J in MN]

128. self-delete

NT

[true_notes]

129. I Myself Will Vote For Him

He's just trying to work the Republican vote. Can't blame a guy for trying to get into office. Hey it's politics, chill. On top of that he will have plenty of time to say that he didn't know what he was getting into. Look at the Dems on the Iraq war. It's all relative, my friend.

[kick_them_hard]

131. Put it back up...

Let's get Dems in the house and senate and reverse this bill. It CAN be done! Vote Harold Ford or the unwashed win....again.

[mdmc]

133. It is your lawn bro

politicize it how you like. :patriot: