Senate hearings on S3950 (Specter-Leahy Amend) -- THREAD 2

[CornField]

Thread 1 -
Senate hearings on Militry hearings of detaines Official thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2242459&mesg_id=2242459

[The Witch]

1. ARLEN - don't fail us now...

[Avalux]

3. He's doing a good job - I just hope it's not all show.

:hi:

[MrCoffee]

5. He's fiercely defending the turf of Senate Judiciary

[rodeodance]

8. it is his amendment (preserve Habeus)-so he will not cave.

[CornField]

2. Sen. Specter still up -- "Sec. Defense should not decide what the...

"Sec. of Defense should not decide what the Constitutional standards are."

[rodeodance]

4. thanks for the new thread cornfield. (this is the Specter-Leahy amendmen

that they are talking about)

[MrCoffee]

6. All time for debate on the amendment has expired.

They're in leadership time.

[CornField]

7. All Time Is Expired -- last call for debate

[rodeodance]

9. a few last words coming yet.---before vote.

[CornField]

10. Who let Sen. Graham's crazy ass back on the floor

AND WHO IN THE HELL IS 'CHEERING' HIM ON THE FLOOR?

[MrCoffee]

11. Here comes the vote!

[helderheid]

14. eeek

:scared:

[CornField]

12. Vote on Amendment happening now...

[rodeodance]

13. calling the roll. keep this kicked. few Senators seem to be ready

[Nictuku]

15. K&R

[CornField]

18. Can you hear the votes? I'm not hearing much --- darn it!

[MrCoffee]

19. Every so often, the clerk is not repeating the votes...there went Snowe

and i didn't hear how she voted.

[MrCoffee]

16. So if the amendment passes, do you think Dems will bother to filibuster?

[AndyA]

20. The Dems MUST FILIBUSTER!

If they don't, I am not sure we have a country named America any longer. The name may be the same, but what made it great is gone. :(

[Atman]

35. Why is it BAD if this amenment passes?

It isn't the entire bill, it just restores the habeus corpus protections. I guess the down side is, it makes the bill more palatable for many, which would be wrong. So yes, I suppose a filibuster would be the next necessary step.

[CornField]

43. It's a crap shoot

If the bill passed without this amendment, it was nearly guaranteed to go to the courts where the entire mess would be tossed out as unConstitutional and kicked back to Congress.

The flip side is that if this amendment passes, the House will have to come back (at a time when many want to be home campaigning)

[Lasher]

115. Very good asessment, CornField.

The ammendment just failed, and I can't say I'm disappointed. Now this will be stricken down by the SCOTUS on account of the unconstitutionality of HC suspension. This will probably occur after Democrats have regained a majority in at least one house of Congress - too late for the GOP to try agian to give the Bush junta the 'get out of jail free' cards they desperately desire. Then we'll release the hounds!

If this ammendment had passed, the House would have reconvened to make the adjustments necessary to send it to Junior for his signature. The Decider wants this pretty bad.

And, there are three more ammendments being considered after this one. Passage of any one would require the House to reconvene, as you described in your second scenario. It's not likely that any of them will, however, just because they are all authored by Democrats.

Check it out, two of these ammendments are being submitted by my 2 WV Senators. Go, Jay & Bobby!

[AndyA]

17. K & R - 5th vote - off the Greatest Page!

This is scary...

[malaise]

21. Feingold voted for the amendment

Good grief. I thought he would reject the entire bill.

[Mass]

The amendment is to restore habeas corpus. He had to vote for it

It does not mean he will support the bill.

He is a co-sponsor of the amendment!

[malaise]

29. THanks for that n/t

[MrCoffee]

22. What was that, maybe 15 votes total???

[Avalux]

24. Still going - this is on Specter's amendment.

Seems a bit chaotic there, doesn't it?

[MrCoffee]

26. Lieberman voted yes for the amendment.

[rodeodance]

23. clinton, wyden says YEA, lots of repug say no including Warner.

[Avalux]

27. Lieberman "aye" - for what it's worth. n/t

[rodeodance]

30. Leiberman and Durban say YEA

[rodeodance]

33. Murry, yea, Inohug NO ----------Allen NO

[Armstead]

25. Did Sununu just vote for the amendment?

My,my,my...if true, that's an interesting development

[MrCoffee]

28. yes he did

[Inuca]

31. This may pass!

Smith & Sunnunu votes aye. PLEASE keep this up, have to leave computer soon.

[MrCoffee]

34. I worry that if it passes, Dems won't filibuster.

[MrCoffee]

32. GO PATTY!!! WOO HOO!!

[MrCoffee]

49. AND MARIA TOO!!!

[chill_wind]

36. Reid's office taking all calls. They are being flooded.

per momcat thread.

Call NOW!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2242307

[ArmchairMeme]

37. C-Span

I have been watching this on the internet as C-Span on tv is strangely unavailable today - no message - just black. This is unusual as this is where I usually watch Senate sessions.

[malaise]

58. I am here wondering why

thi sis not on MSM live for everyone to see what their Senate thinks about their rights.

[LSK]

38. is this the Specter amendment vote??

Just turned it on...

[MrCoffee]

yes.

[MoonRiver]

40. Yes! eom

[hang a left]

39. Question??

If they preserve HC isn't there other things tremendously wrong with this bill. Also couldn't a signing statement alter what the ammendment actually seeks to protect?

[MrCoffee]

41. Yes and Maybe.

There are plenty of other things tremendously wrong with this bill. and whether a signing statement could alter anything hasn't been decided yet.

[MrCoffee]

42. Chafee voted yes.

[MoonRiver]

51. Good for him. I still hope he gets creamed in November.

No decent human being should call him/herself a Republican anymore.

[MiniMe]

53. If the amendment passes, it is doubtful they can get it passed before

they go out on recess. They don't have time to get together with the house and compromise and re-vote before the adjournment.

[MrCoffee]

44. Mike DeWine voted no...get to work OH DUer's!!!

[Hamlette]

45. Mc Cain"no"

jerk

[Bonobo]

46. McCain you scum!!!!

[MrCoffee]

47. I do not understand his vote AT ALL!

[Avalux]

52. You know what it means?

It means his intial outrage and resistance was an ACT. He could care less. Asshole.

[MrCoffee]

57. it's not his resistance, it's that he was tortured himself.

[Avalux]

I know that - but he obviously doesn't have a conscience.

No other explanation; why on earth would he deny a detainee the right to a trial? They are all assuming detainees are already guilty.

[MrCoffee]

71. I just don't get it...i mean i cannot comprehend it.

[Avalux]

89. Me neither.

Other than money and power are ultimately more important than anything else.

[WinkyDink]

75. Doesn't mean he wouldn't want to torture OTHERS.

[Junkdrawer]

48. McCain votes no...

Well, that seals the deal on how genuine the Republican opposition to torture was...

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

50. McCain voted No.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[shraby]

55. What's the score now? Anyone know?

[tex-wyo-dem]

60. McCain is all an act...

he's been promised the WH if he complies with the fascists...he's sold his soul.

[mtnester]

63. Funny thing is, they will NEVER let him have the WH either

so he sold his soul for NOTHING. And he does not even know it.

[tex-wyo-dem]

66. True that n/t

[WinkyDink]

81. Cf. "Richard" in "A Man for All Seasons"~~~"But for WALES??"

[Hamlette]

54. do we just have 2 republicans, where are the women from maine?

[MiniMe]

78. Well, Specter voted for it

[pberq]

56. votes

Nelson, Schumer, Biden - AYE
Kerry, Rockefeller, Feinstein - AYE

[Mass]

59. Did Landrieu and the 2 Nelsons already vote?

[mtnester]

61. Landrieu jumped the shark yesterday, so expect her to do the same today

she has become a tool

[Avalux]

62. Florida Nelson "aye", Nebraska Nelson "no" n/t

[ralps]

72. Nelson of Nebraska- No!!

:grr:

[Avalux]

Crap - I'll edit. n/t

[lonestarnot]

90. Landrieu NO.

[Junkdrawer]

95. I heard Landrieu Aye...

Did she change her vote?

[sunnystarr]

123. Landreu did vote YES ... but where is Byrd?

I didn't hear a vote from Byrd and the final was 48-51 so must be he didn't vote. If he had voted and Nelson Nebraska voted like a Dem the vote would have been 50-50!

[CornField]

64. Grassley -- No -- that f-in' figures

:puke:

[katinmn]

65. Coleman's office won't say how he is voting

Guess that means he is voting against Specter's amendment.

:mad:

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

73. Count on it. Coleman's a sleaze...

[Alizaryn]

67. I have officially lost count

[The Witch]

68. I like how they can sit there and socialize...

not realizing that they are crumbling this great country to pieces... :cry:

[mtnester]

77. Exactly..."after we vote to torture people and remove the right of Habeus

Corpus, wanna go grab a burger down the street? Some of the others are joinging us, we can have some drinks and celebrate"

Bleh.

[katinmn]

97. they're talking about hitting the fundraising trail tomorrow.

All these assholes care about is money.

[Junkdrawer]

69. Has ANY Democrat voted against the amendment?

:shrug:

How many Republican defections so far?

[Avalux]

80. Nelson (Nebraska) voted No. n/t

[Junkdrawer]

Nelson of Nebraska votes no...n/t

[Hamlette]

70. Collins "no" its over

[Bonobo]

74. Grrrrrrrr...

[The Witch]

76. The last day of America was a beautiful one ;_;

At least the sun was shining as the country came to an end.

[mtnester]

82. It is rainy and effing cold here

our country was just destroyed by less than 200 people...amazing

[The Witch]

I'm sorry -- here in Washington it's sunny

but I'd rather have lousy weather than lousy leaders any day

[MrCoffee]

92. Murray and Cantwell voted yes.

sorry, thought you meant WA state, not the district. my bad.

[mtnester]

93. That's OK, you will have our weather tomorrow

:)

[democrank]

85. I`m sick.

Thought she might come to her senses and go over to the bright side.

[Wiley50]

79. Man, This vote is clearly showing true colors n/t

[katinmn]

83. Landrieu voted aye

[mtnester]

88. I am quite frankly shocked

and will extend an apology...this one time

[MrCoffee]

84. Landrieu voted yes?

[katinmn]

86. Aye!

[lonestarnot]

94. Kat, I thought I heard NO.

[mtnester]

98. I rescind my apology upthread until I can confirm Landrieu's vote

:)

[lonestarnot]

108. Kat is probably right. She can hear better than me. Sorry

for the confussion.

[katinmn]

100. Nope. I heard aye.

[lonestarnot]

91. No she didn't, unless I'm hearing things.

[Armstead]

96. I think she voted Aye

[lonestarnot]

104. Ammendment fails, sorry getting old.

[katinmn]

102. Well, it failed.

Bastards.

[CornField]

87. Harkin - Yes -- Iowa just nullified itself again.

[MrCoffee]

99. Iowa's bipolar? lol.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

101. Doesn't that happen all the time?? I mean come on, there

can't be two more polar opposites than Tom Harkin and Grassley. I sometimes wonder if Iowa isn't a bi-polar state. :sarcasm:

[CornField]

103. THREAD 3 ---

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2243963&mesg_id=2243963

[LSK]

105. FUCK, IT FAILS 48-51????

[ralps]

106. Grrr Yays 48 Nays 51

:grr:

[ArmchairMeme]

107. Amendment Fails!

[ProgressiveEconomist]

109. It failed 48-51. McCain could have made it 49-50. Who else was a

big disappointment?

[rodeodance]

111. drats. so so so SO close. damm

[MoonRiver]

113. NELSON - NEBRASKA

:mad:

[rodeodance]

110. they want the chamber brought to ORDER KERRY UP

[rodeodance]

112. this board is slow

[rodeodance]

114. oops Rockerfeller is first

[Lasher]

116. Jay - complaining about GOP rushing this legislation through

Says Democrats were not given time to review it.

Kerry speaking now. Would this bill squander our moral authority? Does it make clear we support the Geneva Convention? Does it make clear the US does not engage in torture? The answer is no.

[The Witch]

117. Kerry. Please get visibly angry. PLEASE.

We need some OUTRAGE.

[pberq]

118. Kerry is up now - talking about election year politics

Comparing this vote with the Irag war vote in 2002.

[Lasher]

119. Kerry: The only gurantee we will have against torture is word of Dubya

We're supposed to trust him? Unconstitutional suspension of writs of HC. We are not in rebellion or being invaded, believes the SCOTUS will rule unconstitutional.

[Lasher]

120. Kit Bond (R) just said this ammendment would hold up interogation

Heh heh, Jay just asked him how this could hold up ongoing interrogation since the CIA currently is holding no detainees.

[MrCoffee]

121. THREAD 3 IS OPEN NOW

[Lasher]

122. Is it time for a new thread?

Well over 100 posts now.

Edit: Oops, already done. Thanks.