Senate Hearings S3930 (Kennedy/Rockefeller/Byrd Amends) -- THREAD 7

[CornField]

Thread 1 Senate hearings on Military hearings of detaines Official thread -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2242459&mesg_id=2242459

Senate hearings on S3930 (Specter-Leahy Amend) -- THREAD 2 -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2243468&mesg_id=2243468

Senate hearings on S3930 (Specter Amend -- FAILED) -- THREAD 3 -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2243963&mesg_id=2243963

Senate Hearings on Torture Bill (debating Rockefeller Amend) -- THREAD 4 -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2244475&mesg_id=2244475

Senate Hearings on Torture Bill (Kennedy & Rockefeller Amends) -- THREAD 5 -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2245155&mesg_id=2245155

Senate Hearings S3930 (Kennedy/ Rockefeller/Byrd Amends) -- THREAD 6 -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2245899&mesg_id=2245899

[MrCoffee]

1. CornField, you are the bomb!

[CornField]

7. This is the last one I can do -- I've got to leave soon

[MrCoffee]

2. So are you noticing the new spin? We're "rendering" justice

not people.

[gully]

38. Ah yes and those against this bill are infact, against justice.

:sarcasm:

[Cameron27]

3. Yes indeedie,

Thank you CornField

[Scoot420fla]

4. (from last post) Is Graham Voting For Kennedy's Ammendmnt?

He just made a very strong argument saying that by telling people they will be war criminals if they harm our soldiers DETERS bad treatment of our soldiers and even ENCOURAGES RELEASE of those already captured. Isn't the the crux of Kennedy's ammendment?

(I posted this in thread 6 but then it ended so reposted here)

[MrCoffee]

5. I think he's arguing that Kennedy's amendment is irrelevant/redundant.

[Scoot420fla]

9. oh ok

but they are still arguing Kennedy's ammendment?

[LSK]

6. Graham: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[MrCoffee]

He's just blowing shit out of his mouth...it's unreal.

[Scoot420fla]

12. I cant even follow him

Im confused. What are we talking about again??

[rodeodance]

8. but Lindsey--there is a retrospecive clause in the this bill that provides

for immunity for war crimes----UP the chain

[importDavid]

10. Graham....

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Good God... who needs NyQuil?

Five more minutes? AHHH!!!!!

[Scoot420fla]

11. fuck, 5 more min for graham. lol n/t

[MrCoffee]

13. he's talking about some imaginary bill that he wrote in crayon last night

he's so far detatched from the reality of this bill that it's ridiculous.

[Scoot420fla]

15. lol he said we're still trying to figure out legal standards

after 5 years of war...as if our legal standards of the last TWOO HUNDRED + years havent worked just fine!!

[Scoot420fla]

17. Oh My 200 Cases

have been brought by the detainees - CLOGGING the system...lol...where oh where will we ever find enough lawyers to handle these cases? 200 WOW!!

[southern_belle]

18. How does Graham

sleep at night? He disgusts me. :rant:

[LSK]

14. maybe he can bring Mrs Alito out to cry again

[Cameron27]

16. ~

:rofl:

[MrCoffee]

19. "The military is far more comptent to determine who is an enemy combatant

than the federal courts." - Graham

[Marie26]

Because that term doesn't exist!

Of course the courts don't know how to define it. It's like defining an "enemy of freedom". It's an empty label, w/o precedent, that Bush can use to label people & strip any rights or legal protection.

[Efilroft Sul]

26. Yeah, but look who's the Commander-in-Chief.

Get back to me about that competency thing, willya, Lindsey?

[MrCoffee]

20. Best news of the day - Graham's time is up.

[rodeodance]

25. more self-congratulations from warmer.

[Cameron27]

21. They never get tired of patting each other on the back.

[BelgianMadCow]

28. .

[Bluebear]

30. .

[blogslut]

22. did Graham just call this Act a product?

"We need to somehow make this product better" - was what he said in closing after he clapped his dainty hands. Did he say product? Did he realize it after he said it like I think he did?

[underpants]

33. Not sure but he DID say that since other countries don't have HabeasCorpus

we don't need it either.

I guess international law applies now :eyes:

[Lasher]

23. Sknnnnnnn...snort snort, smack

Umm, what was that? Graham must have stopped 'speaking' and woke me up.

[countryjake]

24. Allow us to protect our asshats from prosecution in world court...wrong

I think they all know what is at the bottom of this bill...saving their own asses in the future, if war crimes are ever brought to the fore.

[Solly Mack]

29. Precisely. That's exactly what Warner and Graham

are arguing for..it's at the very heart of their arguments

[MrCoffee]

27. Here comes Cornyn...then the vote on the amendments.

[MrCoffee]

31. Cornyn - It's "outlandish" to suggest this bill permits torture.

[Cameron27]

34. And no Democrat has time to reply?

[MrCoffee]

39. I think the Dems are out of time on the amendments.

[underpants]

40. Cornyn claims we didn't know we were at war until 9/11

Uh yes we did moron, didn't you see the Clinton interview? We you awake during the 90's?

[Scoot420fla]

32. Some Clarification Please

Is it just the Kennedy ammendment being debated now or what? They just said they are going to vote oin successionon 3 ammendments...the 3 listed in the title of this thread? What bill is Coryn debating on now?

[MrCoffee]

36. After Cornyn, they'll vote on 3 amendments

Rockefeller - Requires CIA to give quarterly reports to Congress re: military tribunals/torture technique
Kennedy - Requires Condi to tell other countries that if they torture americans, they'll be treated as war criminals
Byrd - 5 year sunset provision on the bill

[Scoot420fla]

43. Thanks...it seems like

the repugs are arguing for these ammendments...or is it just me?

[Scoot420fla]

47. It also seems like...

they are arguing for a completely different bill that would be a mirror of the house bill that passed yesterday. Have they voted on such bill yet? If not, when?

[MrCoffee]

48. They're arguing for the bill without the amendments.

[Scoot420fla]

50. gotcha...thx....n/t

[Cameron27]

37. I don't know how they're going to do it.

Kennedy's first maybe?

[BelgianMadCow]

35. The republican Sssssnaketongue Cooryn's doublespeak :

we are not allowing torture, but making sure tha we comply with our international obligations.

When interpreting them, you only have to make everything opposite and you get the truth.

[Marie26]

44. We are not torturing!

Just using "aggressive measures". :eyes: Yet then says the brave interrogators are at risk of conviction for war crimes.

[rodeodance]

41. oh-----Cornballs from TX--saying he is going to correct 'outlandish'

claims made by dems.

[Lasher]

42. I wish to thank the distinguished Senator from South Carolina...

For finally shutting up!! How in the world did he manage to fit about a year of drivel into his 15 minutes of alloted time?

He could have better spent that time attending a course on Bonehead Constitution 010, where they teach you that you cannot simultaneously participate in both the Legislative and Judicial branches of government.

[countryjake]

45. Aggressive interrogation techniques retained by the compromise...

do substantially aid our intelligence, those methods have proven successful...

[BelgianMadCow]

52. he cites 86 Al Quaeda names given up during torture

of which half are arrested now. Isq this verifiable & verified??

[MrCoffee]

46. Cornyn - "We're not torturing people. We're using legal, agressive

interrogation techniques consistent with the Constitution, US and international law."

[Marie26]

49. They're eeevvviiillll

Do you understand how evil? Coryn will go on at length about it. Because if you get mad enough, maybe you'll stop thinking.

[Cameron27]

51. The dems just want the bad people to go away

STFU

[countryjake]

53. Some say this is all about Iraq...no, it is not about Iraq...what about

the foiled plot at Heathrow?

We have been successful, thank goodness, in preventing another terra attack on our own soil.

[MrCoffee]

57. oh yeah, the made up plot based on bad info derived by torture,

how could i forget?

[countryjake]

65. Got toothpaste? LOL!

Not sure about international flight, but the carry-on restrictions have already been generally lifted in this country.

[MrCoffee]

54. GO TEDDY!!! KICK ASS! TAKE NO PRISONERS!

[Greeby]

55. Ted Kennedy getting fired up!

:bounce:

[Scoot420fla]

58. His hands are shaking he's so fired up

GO TEDDY! Just dont keel over on us! lol

[MrCoffee]

60. it takes him all of 4 seconds to get riled up.

[countryjake]

56. I like the way Kennedy always adds "execution" when he talks about

being prosecuted for war crimes!

[Marie26]

61. LOL LOL

Calling them on the "shall" excuse - 10+ laws instructing State Dept. it "shall" do something. Go Kennedy!

[BelgianMadCow]

59. Kennedy is holding up the army manual

I am sure the army istelf would NOT participate in general in such torture.
They have to use private contractors or some such to gve the orders.

In the end, it will come down on whose side the army choses. I have confidence.

[BelgianMadCow]

62. He is painting his amandment as very very patriot

will provide for excellent ammo for blasting the naysayers.

[countryjake]

77. Right, once the thugs throw at his amendment, the thrust of filibuster

has been rightly set with his good argument.

[MrCoffee]

63. I don't think the Army is fully aware of what all is going on.

[MrCoffee]

66. Here comes the vote.

[MrCoffee]

70. Wait...did they call for the yeas and nays on all amendments and the bill?

[Cameron27]

73. That's what I thought I heard too.

[Lasher]

81. I gurantee all three amendments will fail

Repukes make sure all legislation will fail, no matter what, if it is introduced by a Democrat. I can't wait to hear all the repuke squeals and moans when they get the same treatment when we are the majority party.

But don't dispair, fellow CSPAN geeks. This POS will certainly be ruled unconstitutional by even this right-wing SCOTUS. By that time we'll be in control of the House or Senate, or both. And with no get-out-of-jail-free card for The Decider. Where to start...

[countryjake]

89. C-SPAN geeks??? I only watch for the music, lol.

[mom cat]

106. By then, you or I could be dissapeared! I am not comforted by the

fact that it will be in the hands of SCOTUS.

[BelgianMadCow]

67. Agreed. I think the majority take their oath and the classes on

geneva seriously. After all, it's also their butt on the line. Gives you perspective.

[Cameron27]

64. The dems are battling so damn hard

:cry:

We need to take control of Congress.

[importDavid]

68. Drum roll please....

(crossing fingers)

[blogslut]

69. Oh geeze, Cornyn

my psycho Senator.

He doesn't like that we're calling it a torture bill. Blow me, Cornyn. You sucked. Remember when you gave Tom Coleman the "Lawman of the Year" award?

How'd that work out?

[MrCoffee]

71. WTF...they're voting on all the amendments and the bill???

Does Rockefeller's 2 minutes go to the bill?

[BelgianMadCow]

72. Yep they are.

Rockefeller?

[MrCoffee]

75. He was asking about his time right before the quorum call.

[Scoot420fla]

74. i think...

they are voting on the bill first then the amendments

[MrCoffee]

76. they vote on amendments first then the bill.

[Scoot420fla]

79. yup youre right n/t

[MrCoffee]

80. Rockefeller first, Byrd second, Kennedy third.

With 4 minutes equally divided before each vote.

[Scoot420fla]

78. We're getting 12 min of Leahy! n/t

[Scoot420fla]

82. and he's pissed about the timing!!

There is going to be 10 min of debate and a vote on the border fence bill in between

[countryjake]

83. Leahy...he thinks it's a farce, a farce in the Senate!

[LSK]

85. this makes me think a filibuster is coming

[MrCoffee]

87. I'm totally lost...is there time for debate on the bill left?

[LSK]

90. yes, we are still on amendments i think

[Scoot420fla]

88. yeah right...

that would imply there are enough dems with spines

[mom cat]

107. There sure as hell better be!

[MrCoffee]

86. well, he's right. and he's PISSED

[spuddonna]

84. Sen. Leahy, you rock... It is a farce... n/t

[trashcanistanista]

92. Just got off the phone with Reids office (NV)

Staffer said it was too late to filibuster. Anybody know if this is true? I thought you could filibuster down to the wire.

[BelgianMadCow]

94. The way my limited understanding says it goes is, a No vote on cloture

needing 41 votes constitutes a filibuster.
But I don't know if a vote on cloture is always held. LSK?

[LSK]

96. they need 60 Yes votes on Cloture

[LSK]

95. there is time

The question is will they do it?

[Marie26]

97. They wouldn't have

to filibuster long, right? Congress leaves session tomorrow.

[LSK]

99. if it doesnt pass cloture, it usually goes away

At least thats what happened with the ANWR bill last winter.

[trashcanistanista]

104. I asked the Reid Staffer

If the debate didn't end today or tomorrow would that be more or less the same thing? He said he was certain it would come to vote today and assured me Reid would vote against it. I'm calling Boxer.

[BelgianMadCow]

98. The cloture vote after the amendments and before the vote on the bill?

[LSK]

100. yes

[spuddonna]

101. Just called the DC switchboard & told a Reid staffer "Filibuster!"

So if anyone wants to call while the votes are being tallied:

Call DC switchboard, 1-800-828-0498, and ask for Sen Reid's office... Press 1 to talk to a person! :)

We can try...

[MrCoffee]

91. Voting on the Rockefeller amendment now.

[LSK]

93. Vote on Rockefeller Amendment now - new thread time?

[wicket]

102. PLEASE!!!!

:D

[MrCoffee]

103. do it

[LSK]

105. NEW THREAD HERE

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2247201&mesg_id=2247201