Spineless Dems Are Only Doing What "The People" Want

[phrenzy]

I'm afraid it is true. Yes they should have more integrity, but the fact is Joe Sixpack is the one that is accepting this torture shit. All they know is "It makes 'merka safe" and "They're only doin' it to them Aye-Rabs" - Face it. Americans can not grasp 'lofty' principles like why it isn't ok to torture people.

They CAN understand this: "If Abdul knows about a ticking bomb in an airport we have to be able to torture him" and that is what it boils down to. Nothing more, nothing less. And "we're the GOOD guys!"


Other than, they only care about gas prices, what's on TV and "Brangelina".

I am really starting to wonder - at what point do Americans DESERVE to be attacked? Most of the population is basically consenting to this by NOT raising their voice.

I think the problem is - that if the Dems DID actually filibuster, that the 'security moms' that only understand Bush's "Plain spoken" soundbytes will vote them out.

[ShortnFiery]

1. Once the Dems take control, however, this legislation should be amended

- post haste! ;)

[yurbud]

4. limit torture to just private contractors (on them not by them)

[Stu DeBeouf]

6. Hahahaha!

And Dear Leader will surely follow the rule of law as set down by the Dem Congress....:rofl: Get real.

[Nite Owl]

10. Only after * is out of office

they can vote on it and pass it but can they get the votes to overturn a veto even if they couldn't get the votes to stop cloture? It's going to be a long time unless the Supremes get on this right away and we don't lose another one to his appointments.

[Randy Ranger]

13. I hope your not counting on the dems winning

Even if they do I don't see any promise for reform.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

14. Once The Dems Take Control?

When will that be? 2006? Not a chance. 2008? Doubtful.

Perhaps in 2010 or 2012. Maybe longer.

But someday they might actually get control. Too little, too late.

[TahitiNut]

25. Consider this ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2241037

[AX10]

2. Perhaps it's time for someone else to take the lead role in the world.

What we really need is a multi-polar world. The US, EU, and China. Someday (soon hopefully) we will have India (the world's largest democracy) and Brazil. That seems to be the only solution. If everyone has to share the power, they are less likely to abuse it.

[John Gauger]

12. India is not what I call a Democracy.

250,000 Untouchables do not have the right to vote. When 25% of a country's population has no suffrage, I don't call that a democracy.

[AX10]

18. It is a Democracy!

That is a fact.

[John Gauger]

19. Oh okay!

I guess if they call themselves a democracy then the are. Just like the Democratic Republic of the Congo and the Democratic People's Republic of (North) Korea. I only call a state a democracy when it has universal suffrage.

[AX10]

20. That is such bullshit. You are coparing India to North Korea?

North Korea doesn't even have a future. By you "logic" America is not a Democracy either because we do have disenfranchisment of voters here too.

[John Gauger]

27. Did I call America a democracy?

I don't beleive I did. It would be unusual for me to say such a thing, because America is not a democracy. Black people are not guaranteed suffrage. In a democracy all people have the right vote. And yes, I am comparing India to North Korea. Both countries falsely claim to be democracies. Oh, and India doesn't just have disenfranchisement. The Untouchables are rutinely tortured to death just for looking at one of their supposed superiors.

[Monkeyman]

3. Did not have the votes to Filibuster

Anyone have the list of Dems who voted for this crap. They have just gave every country in the world the right to torture our kids

[Nite Owl]

5. From another thread:

12 Democrats who voted yes:

Carper, Johnson, Landrieu, Lautenberg, Lieberman, Menendez, Nelson (Fla.), Nelson (Neb.), Pryor, Rockefeller, Salazar and Stabenow

[dsc]

7. Lautenberg and Rockefeller surprise me

no one else on that list does.

[Nite Owl]

15. I can't believe that they would vote this way

Rockefeller is on the intelligence committee too.

Reid may be a 'nice guy' but he is not a leader. Leaders have followers, followers who would know that there would be consequences and who know that the party would back them too.

[dsc]

22. What would you have Reid do to Lautenberg?

The man retired from the Senate once and will be pushing 80 when his current term is up. Can a man have less to lose?

[madrchsod]

9. 12 democratic cowards

[bobbolink]

23. I sure doooo love Salazar!

I"m sooo very glad he won and not Mike Miles.

We have the DLC to thank for this shit!

[TahitiNut]

26. Stabenow lost my vote.

I called her office. I was VERY clear. As far as I'm concerned, she's part of the fascist right - what some might call a "DINO."

[John Gauger]

8. "At what point do Americans deserve to be attacked?"

Never. Ignorance and laziness are not valid justifications for murder. No matter how dissatisfied I am with the American people, I shall never advocate violence against them. I am amazed that you would even ask such a question.

[aquart]

11. Pasture pastry.

They haven't even bothered to tell "the people" what they're doing. What they just did.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

16. good points. Recall who it was that created this country

for all of their democratic and republican ideals, supporting the common man, raising issues and ideals in ways that would change the entire world.

But they were the most educated, the most travelled, the most literate and the most experienced. They were, in terms that a british king would understate, the royalty. not necessarily financially, but in terms of brain power, knowledge an training. Latin, French, and perhaps other languages were known to them, so were math, history, and other "sciences".

The average colonial was hardly in their league, yet, they did their damnest to include everyone (unless you were forceably brought in from across the big waters, and had excessive melatonin) in their plans.

Now, today's elite is not educated, traveled or ethical. They are greedy, they inherited their positions and riches, and they understand power first, last and in between. They are what Prince edward, King george, Queen victoria and other inbred self-appointed leaders were two centuries earlier. They will be overturned, but not before a great number of Americans and others suffer for the elite's sins.

[bridgit]

17. then they should be refuting in the strongest terms possible, all this...

cheney/bush/bfee & RNC gibberish about dems being the worm-turned party of "cut & run", coddling terrorists, aiding & abetting, etc; i'm tired of it and would like to see some dems poking a finger back into the corner of republicans and their collective jaundiced eye

[lapfog_1]

21. We approached this all wrong

To reach the Joe Sixpacks and the rank and file repukes...

EVERY DEM should have been in strong support of the torture bill...

with the stated reason that it will really help Hillary when she takes office in 2009 to
rid America of those terrorists that want their "right to bear arms" and the other terrorists
that protest abortion clinics, etc, etc.

It has to be stated because these people simply can't think into the future at all.

[Raksha]

24. I think you're right. As sickening as it is to admit this

I actually know people who feel that way. It just doesn't register with some folks that if they can do it to "them," they can also do it to "us."

[BlooInBloo]

28. Elected politicians are the embodiment (literally) of those they represent

[phrenzy]

29. Responsibility

I am hardly 'advocating' attacks against Americans, but I AM suggesting that Americans bear much more responsibility for our govts. actions because we are GIVEN A CHOICE.

People in most middle eastern theocracies/kingdoms have NO say in the fucked up shit their govt. does. We DO, and we make a conscious CHOICE to allow torture, wars of aggression, spying, kidnapping, etc. Enough of America is OK with this stuff that they have repeatedly put the implementors of these policies in power. They are as guilty as the psychotic CIA spook having a 'waterboarding' party in the Ukraine.