What will Happen when a Soldier REFUSES to Toruture?

[OneAngryDemocrat]

What will happen when a soldier now refuses a LAWFUL order to torture?
Just asking.

Visit my anti-war website, www.shockedandawful.com

[derby378]

1. He'll be court-martialled...

...and possibly tortured.

[silverweb]

2. He'll become a detainee.

Of course.

[Oceansaway]

3. .

they'll probably be tortured themselves

[Monkeyman]

4. A Soldier has the right to refuse and order if he thinks it is a

illegal order. Sir I refuse to Torture because it is Illegal Sir

[OneAngryDemocrat]

6. The law...

The law does NOT support your supposition... anymore.

[Bluerthanblue]

12. It violates his MORAL law- one this fucked up nation stopped

embracing AFTER he was stuck in the system-
If they can change the rules, our soldiers can change thier willingness to live by the new 'code'-
I'd argue that in a court of law till hell freezes over.

Which sadly probably isn't far off.

[OneAngryDemocrat]

13. Yes... But HERE is a good question...

I was thinking along the same lines.

A conscientious objector will have a difficult time trying to justify trying to avoid military service based on POLITICAL considerations - but trying to avoid torturing on religious grounds could be very feasible.

Here's a question -

Could a soldier refuse combat duty because they MIGHT be asked to make arrests, or capture detainees, which, because of the passage of this Bill, then MIGHT be tortured?

i.e., could a soldier say NO to the war, since participation in the war could lead to a violation of his/her religious conditions against torture? A condition that did NOT exist when the soldier enlisted?

[Bluerthanblue]

15. doesn't HAVE to be 'religious'

grounds. Though most people choose to take this option. When you dissect religion much of it is made up of 'moral absolutes' that we embrace or don't embrace (I am a follower of Christ)- the moral absolutes don't only come from religious Icons- they can certainly come from a view of humanity that is based on many sources.

My oldest son was smothered in fundamentalist religion as a child. He became an atheist- But one of the strongest reasons he believes in non-violence is based on the horrible things humans do to one another and try to absolve themselves of responsibility by pointing to a book, a dogma, or a cult to excuse what to HIM is in-excusable. He has articulated his beliefs to his flag waving friends without fear, embarrassment or hostility- and he is respected as one who lives his talk.

He has said he will not participate in 'wars' as we now define them which are not actions taken in imminent defense of another persons life, but unchecked violent actions taken pre-emptively, or in revenge for deaths that can never be restored. He's willing to go to jail, or leave this country rather than perpetuate this madness.

The proverbial "what if they gave a war and no body came" scenario. Would that more young people adopted this mindset. Willing to die for a cause? Maybe that trumps being willing to kill for one?-

I hope I don't live to know if he's forced to demonstrate his beliefs.
But I honor his courage, which is seen as cowardice in this fucked up world. It's easy to hurt others, and maybe get hurt in the process, it is NOT easy to stand firm and say "no matter what you do, you cannot force me to 'be like you'."-


(edit- 9 words changed, spell check is my friend)

[rzemanfl]

5. He will be assigned as point man in an infantry company, same

way they have always dealt with things like that.

[muesa]

7. Viet Nam situation

I have a college classmate who was a Beachy-New Order Amish (cars, phones, electricity, etc.) He went to college on an Army ROTC scholarship, was commissioned as a Corps of Engineers 2nd LT, and while he was on a "graduate school delay" the Viet Nam war started. He went to the ROTC Department Head for "counseling" - and was transferred from the Corps of Engineers (a "combat arm") to the Medical Service Corps (a "Geneva Convention" protected unit) and served as a bureaucrat in a MASH type unit in Viet Nam. He served as an Officer (remember - he was ROTC).

Non-confrontational, it can always be handled bureaucratically.

[liberal N proud]

8. Abu Graib proves they will

[dannofoot]

9. They won't ask a "soldier"...

They have specialists who are more than willing to perform that task; there's no need to order a regular soldier to do the job.
The creeps at Abu Ghraib seemed to have volunteered, for the most part...and as awful as that was, it's probably nothing compared to what people who are trained in that sort of thing can (and apparently will, with impunity) do.

[Drifter]

10. More importantly ...

What will happen when one of our soldiers is captured and tortured. Not for information, but simply because they can. There is not a single thing we can do, because we are the ones who set the example.

THIS WILL HAPPEN IN IRAQ EVENTUALLY.

It is only a matter of time, as the awol cowboy has vowed to NEVER leave Iraq.

Cheers
Drifter

[Swamp Rat]

11. If not arrested and court-martialed for disobeying an order, the soldier

might get a suicidal assignment, like dismantling IEDs or made point man on the most dangerous missions. :shrug:

[malaise]

14. He will be tortured n/t