Nazi Germany began this way...

[garthranzz]

with a scapegoat, with the curtailment of "some" civil liberties of "some" citizens and foreigners, in the name of national security.

Nazi Germany began this way...
presaging Orwellian newspeak - Arbeit Macht Frei - on its way to perfecting torture - the medical experiments of Mengele

Nazi Germany began this way...
with a legislature intimidated, a judiciary bought, and industrialists in bed, literally and figuratively, with the powers that be

Nazi Germany began this way...
with the perversion of rhetoric, with poisoned bread and circuses, with truth defined by the leader's image or whim or nightmare

Nazi Germany began this way...
with a demon, a devil in its midst, an "other" that was out there, unknown, always threatening

Nazi Germany began this way...
as the last refuge of scoundrels, waving hypnotic flags: obey, believe, behold the vicarious glory

Nazi Germany began this way...
in fear and pomp and platitude and arrogance and suppression of dissent

and torture

torture in the name of security
torture in the name of freedom
torture in the name of civilization
torture in the name of destiny
torture in the name of religion

but torture, torture, torture

I have relatives who died in the Holocaust. I know survivors of the Holocaust. My father was nearly killed fighting a regime that needed to torture its enemies, engaged in a "final solution" leading to its own perverse apocalypse - a thousand year reich, a millennium on the ashes of the tortured

And if the courts have the wisdom, if the courts have the strength, if the Court acknowledges its allegiance to the Constitution - to habeas corpus - supersedes its fealty to those who appointed it

will then the Court be disbanded, ignored, bullied or tortured to torture the Constitution itself?

Nazi Germany did not survive. Bush, Rove, Cheney, et. al. will not survive

But how many will they torture before they have tortured their own tortured minds out of existence?

And what of the Senators and Representatives - who will forgive them their lack of courage, their lack of conscience?

As we prepare for a revolution, an exodus, a fundamental alteration, perhaps this thought might resonate: the only one who can stop self-torture, by definition, can't.

Who Watches the Watchmen?

Who Forgives the Unforgivable?

[KyndCulture]

1. May I be the first K&R

and welcome to DU!

This was GREAT!

[liberal N proud]

2. Who will stop them when they decide we are the enemy

When they no longer allow us to disagree, who will stop them from torturing us?

[tblue]

6. That is what I've been thinking all along

That's what Cheney had in mind all along.

[WA98296]

17. When?...Are you serious? It's been US all along.

[tom_paine]

42. No One.

That much has been made abundantly clear over these past five+ years.

I have no doubt that plans and preparation are being made right now, if not in the Busheviks Halls then one ring out in the Bushevik Propaganda Think Tank Zone (in the basement, at night, with lots of cocaine for company, I have no doubt).

Halliburton is building the concentration camps now, if you haven't heard. And I am also guessing that those poor homeless impoverished bastards who are now in FEMA concentration camps are going to be there for quite some time, and they will ALREADY BE THERE when the mission of said concentration camps changes.

What is all that new construction and electric fencing for?

Let us not forget, listen to virtually EVERYONE in the Bushevik ranks very carefully. Many of them are all ready to staff those concentration camps (oh, but they will be named something very Orwellian different).

They already believe us to be the enemy, and they have convinced me that, like the Nazis, the ones who accusing everyone of being the enemies of the nation, are the TRUE enemies of the nation.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Poll_Blind]

3. On good men doing nothing.

  Edmund Burke said "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing."

  For most of my life and certainly all of my adult life I have confronted various evils, intentionally or otherwise. Sometimes you go looking for that monster and sometimes it comes looking for you. Regardless, the eventual confrontation is a trial. Winning or losing in a battle against evil is a moot point to judge a man or woman.

  It is whether one flees from the battle or enjoins it that is relevant in my opinion. That is a point to judge on.

  There is also the matter of how thoroughly that evil is confronted. As Americans, we are taught that some evils are so highly-appointed in the infernal hierarchy that they require we lay our lives down to stop them. Again, it is of little importance whether we win or lose that battle, but what pains were taken to stop it.

  To many here, is is high Truth that this battle today required more effort than was given by those we have appointed to defend us. It will be marked down, and it should be, that the battle might not have been winnable. That is ultimately irrelevant. What will also be noted, and of much greater importance, is that this battle should have been fought with the kind of vigor appropriate to the menace of that evil which was confronted.

  Which it was not.

  This was not a legislative kerfuffle over the subsidizing the price of corn or choosing a design for the face of a coin. Nor was it merely, and I use that word correctly, merely how we confront the evils which threaten America.

  This was something greater than that. Today's battle was a question about how we confront evil in ourselves, and how we define our national character.

  And the choice has been made. The President will lower his gallows-pen and the scratches it makes on paper will become a pale reflection of the gallows-blade which hangs heavily over our Liberties' neck.

  The good men and women who represent us in Congress have not done nothing. But they have certainly not done what was necessary when confronting an evil of this magnitude. I did not expect our representatives to lay down their life for us, today. But I sorely wish that I would have known that they would lay down so little when the stakes were so great.

  Freedom is a prologue to that which we will live with from this day forward. But Freedom is not the father or mother of it.

PB

[Jcrowley]

4. K&R

"Any person subject to this chapter who, in breach of an allegiance or duty to the United States, knowingly and intentionally aids an enemy of the United States, or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy, shall be punished as a military commission under this chapter may direct."



The similarities between American fascism and particularly the National Socialist precedent, both historical and theoretical, are remarkable. Fascism is home, it is here to stay, and it better be countered with all the intellectual resources at our disposal. 

Since mainstream left-liberal media do not seriously ask this question, the analysis of what has gone wrong and where we are heading has been mostly off-base. Investigation of the kinds of under-handed, criminal tactics fascist regimes undertake to legitimize their agenda and accelerate the rate of change in their favor is dismissed as indulging in "conspiracy theory." Liberals insist that this regime must be treated under the rules of "politics as usual. Liberals are quick to note certain obvious dissimilarities with previous variants of fascism and say that what is happening in America is not fascist. It took German justice minister Herta Daeubler-Gmelin to make the comparison explicit (under present American rules of political discourse, she has been duly sacked from her cabinet post); but at the liberal New York Times or The Nation, American writers dare not speak the truth.

[vanboggie]

5. K&R with sadness

The 2000 coup solidified the Fourth Reich right here in the middle of the USA. They are following Hitler's playbook to the letter.

[Cleita]

7. Yep. What's nice is no one is telling us to stop saying

that like a few years ago. Only the most dense can't see the parallels and writing on the wall these days.

[NNN0LHI]

10. Nice?

I would feel a lot better if we had people telling us we are nuts for making such comparisons. I really would.

This country is in big trouble.

Don

[Cleita]

11. That's my point. They aren't saying it anymore.

Remember when you had to replace the Nazi word with fascist? Even here on DU. I got one or two of my posts removed because I used that "N" word. No one is doing it anymore and I think it might go mainstream. It's too bad it had to go this far. I guess we will have to play the whole nightmare out to the end now. This train isn't stopping until the wreck happens.

[tnlefty]

37. I remember the flamewars complete with the accusations:

tinfoil chapeau on too tight

alarmist

no way could anything like that happen here, so stop saying that and very persistant attempts to shut down any discussion related to the topic.

Uh...We've come a long way, baby? :shrug: I'm in such a creepy mood I can't even come up with anything remotely humorous.

[Twist_U_Up]

8. The nazis where never eliminated,they just came to the US

"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." - Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

[Ladyinblack]

15. Some were already in US

History tells us that the Grandfather Bush supported Hitler. He went on to become a Senator but it is stated that he had support from others who supported Germany during the war.

Perhaps we are looking at the results of being raised in a family that has many shared values with Hitler. For example torture, no legal rights, telling people how they must think, scaring people so that you gain the power you want, and justify your actions by stating you are protecting the country by taking the rights of people . (It's just a piece of paper) What our president said about the constitution. I assume he thinks the same way about the Geneva Convention.

I do not want to sound paranoid but I am beginning to think about where I can go and provide a safe place for my family.

[Lars39]

30. From what I understand,

the internment of the US Nazis allowed them the ability to plan and network more easily...actually strengthening their movement here. :(

[Bluerthanblue]

9. OH, how I hate

the truth in your post-

and how I can't find hope that this can be stopped.

What possible alliance could take down the biggest, most well armed, nation in the world?

And at what cost? (not in the $ sense)


"Helpless"

There is a town in north Ontario,
With dream comfort memory to spare,
And in my mind
I still need a place to go,
All my changes were there.

Blue, blue windows behind the stars,
Yellow moon on the rise,
Big birds flying across the sky,
Throwing shadows on our eyes.
Leave us

Helpless, helpless, helpless
Baby can you hear me now?
The chains are locked
and tied across the door,
Baby, sing with me somehow.

Blue, blue windows behind the stars,
Yellow moon on the rise,
Big birds flying across the sky,
Throwing shadows on our eyes.
Leave us

Helpless, helpless, helpless.


help US!

( forgot to credit Neil Young with his poigniant words and the melody that haunts my thoughts)

[savemefromdumbya]

12. Chilling

hopefully the rest of the world will step in to save us?

[Cleita]

14. Uh no. If they did they would be interfering like we have done

in many countries. We have got to take care of this ourselves.

[BelgianMadCow]

22. Now? Not at all. The torture bill isn't even on the news here. But when

Bush*co starts another war, like with Iran, I do think hell will break loose. And after some warring years, we may come and rescue you from the fourth reich.

After all, you did the same for us. We have not forgotten you can be sure.

It's just that at present, the world at large is not up to speed with PNAC and the like. We still think "that's one BAAAD government"

Stolen elections have been alomst nonexistent in our media for example.

[Sequoia]

32. Don't count on it.

[Jcrowley]

13. Will we notice?

[Hawkowl]

16. If the midterms are lost....

The country will be lost. I absolutely, firmly believe if we can't pull off at least controlling one house with LOYAL DEMOCRATS (as opposed to what we've seen again today, with the weak kneed crossing of party lines to vote for fascism), we will head the way of the Roman Republic, the Weimar Republic, and the French Republic (pre-Napoleon). A complete, disastorous slide into ruinous dictatorship.

All those common people who think it can't happen here...pay attention. We're witnessing history and not in a good way.

It gets to the point now, where I wonder if I will have to emigrate in my lifetime. Sad. Very, very sad.

[Marr]

18. Indeed. This is the first President who demands the right to:

... jail reporters who report things he wants to keep secret
... arrest people (including citizens) without evidence and jail them indefinitely
... torture
... spy on citizens without a warrant
... be placed above all laws

And it's not some otherwise upstanding president asking for these insane powers; not some seemingly responsible public servant, faced with a herculean threat, like WW2. It's THIS guy- a stupid, cruel, power hungry, 60-year-old frat boy who thinks fart jokes are the pinnacle of humor. If the others didn't have dictatatorial powers, why should he?

I think historians are going to look back at that infamous "joke" Bush made about how 'this would be a heck of alot easier if it were a dictatorship" and ask, "they didn't see it coming?"

I NEVER thought that was meant totally in jest, and I certainly didn't think it was funny. What sort of president makes jokes about being a dictator?

[garthranzz]

19. I just realized, I wrote this on my birthday

I think I'll light a candle instead of blowing one out.

[BelgianMadCow]

23. Well happy birthday may seems strange

so more power and wisdom to you!

:toast:

[kath]

43. Yep, that "dictator" comment chilled me to the bone the day he said it, 6

days after he was appointed. (and actually, he's made the "heckuva lot easier if this were a dictatorship" comment at least three times.

:scared: :scared: :scared:

http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/2002/10/29_Dictator.html

The most well-known time he said this was Dec. 18, 2000. Others were July 1998 and July 2001

[marmar]

20. And people are going to have to stop brushing off the comparisons...

Because the alarm bell has sounded. All it takes is one tyrant - we've got several of them.

[and-justice-for-all]

21. Germans supported their troops too.

[mom cat]

24. Thanks for reminding us of the gravity of the new reality where habeas

corpus it at the whim of a madman.

[Hubert Flottz]

25. They have created the new GROFAZ!

Even the Church is PRO TORTURE! Just like in Nazi Germany.

[formercia]

29. The Theofacist State

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005206



GERMAN CHURCHES AND THE NAZI STATE



A religious census taken in 1925 revealed that of an overall German population of 65 million, 40 million belonged to the main Protestant (Evangelical Lutheran) church, 21 million to the Roman Catholic church, and 620,000 to various smaller, mostly Protestant denominations. The term "Church Struggle" refers to the strained relationship between church and state in Germany in the 1870s and then again during the Nazi regime. Although Nazi policy at first seemed to tolerate church autonomy, it soon became clear that official tolerance of Christian religious groups would last only as long as the churches accepted synchronization--the alignment of the church, along with other areas of society, with Nazi goals. The Roman Catholic and Protestant churches met the Nazi rise to power with attempts to retain control of their respective institutions and the rights of their brethren to worship freely and openly.

[Mnemosyne]

26. "They Thought They Were Free"

by Milton Mayer

But Then It Was Too Late

snip>

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn't see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for the one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even to talk, alone; you don't want to "go out of your way to make trouble." Why not? - Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

"Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, "everyone is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there will be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to you colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, "It's not so bad" or "You're seeing things" or "You're an alarmist."

"And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can't prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don't know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have.

"But your friends are fewer now. Some have drifted off somewhere or submerged themselves in their work. You no longer see as many as you did at meetings or gatherings. Informal groups become smaller; attendance drops off in little organizations, and the organizations themselves wither. Now, in small gatherings of your oldest friends, you feel that you are talking to yourselves, that you are isolated from the reality of things. This weakens your confidence still further and serves as a further deterrent to – to what? It is clearer all the time that, if you are going to do anything, you must make an occasion to do it, and then you are obviously a troublemaker. So you wait, and you wait.

Much more at link:
http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html

I hope you have a good day for your birthday, garthranzz. Forget for just a little while and have some fun! :party:

It ain't over till the fat lady sings; and I'm not singing yet!

[formercia]

27. You will be happy to know

Fritz Von Papen, a Knight of Malta, convinced Hindenburg to appoint Hitler Chancellor.

Poppy, a honorary Knight of Malta, convinced the GOP to proclaim his evil seed heir apparent.

[Nordmadr]

28. Is it not maddening to watch it all just slip away from us?

Seeing it go, knowing it, trying to stop it. Feeling ever helpless. A ripple before the crashing tidal wave. Writing letters, attending protests, making phone calls. We can't actually fight, or protest too vehemently. That could quite likely get us sent to our own military tribunal. Such a slippery slope. No hand holds. We're labeled quitters, anti-American, terrorist supporters, alarmists, doomers, etc. How dare we disagree? How could we be against properly punishing terrorists? Who is labeled terrorist?

We've lost it already folks. It just hasn't finished the process yet.

We will know our shame, our liberty is lost.

F*ck.

Olafr

[Raffi Ella]

31. this seems like an appropriate place to post this...

Here's something we can do:

Day of Mass Resistance
October 5th

Check the site for a location near you


http://www.worldcantwait.org/

:kick:

[OXM]

33. This is so shameful.

As a Jew, I've always found it hard to forgive the German nation for what it let its government do. It's always in the back of my mind: "How did they just let them do that?"
That's how the rest of the world looks at Americans now. Just like them, we are distracted into inaction by a propaganda of fear.

[Auggie]

34. The real day of mass resistence is November 7th. Vote!

[savemefromdumbya]

35. if the vote is counted?

[Auggie]

39. If enough of us vote, yes!

[Raffi Ella]

36. YES,that too!

Welcome to DU :patriot:

[earth mom]

38. ...

:cry:

[coalition_unwilling]

40. One other parallel: both Hitler and Bush were appointed, not

elected. If anyone ever says "When Hitler was elected . . ." you can immediately disabuse them of the notion. Hindenburg appointed Hitler, just as the Supreme Court's halt of the Florida recount had the effect of appointing Bush president.

[Vidar]

41. Not to mention the parallel between 9-11 & the Reichstag fire.

[robertpaulsen]

44. Nazi-Bush links: BOOKMARK AND CHECK OUT OCTAFISH'S THREADS!

Know your BFEE: Nazis couldn’t win WWII, so they backed Bushes.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1547206

NAZI-CIA; October Surprise; Bush-Moon Axis; Corporate McPravda...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1450222

Know your BFEE: Like a NAZI
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=133897



And a good thread on the subject from bobthedrummer:

It's time for another Bush/Nazis thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=199853