Molly Ivins: Don't be surprised when world compares us to NAZIS

[Bluebear]

AUSTIN, Texas -- Oh dear. I'm sure he didn't mean it. In Illinois' 6th Congressional District, long represented by Henry Hyde, Republican candidate Peter Roskam accused his Democratic opponent Tammy Duckworth of planning to "cut and run" on Iraq. Duckworth is a former Army major and chopper pilot, who lost both legs in Iraq after her helicopter got hit by an RPG. "I just could not believe he would say that to me," said Duckworth, who walks on artificial legs and uses a cane. Every election cycle produces some wincers, but how do you apologize for that one? ...

The bill simply removes a suspect's right to challenge his detention in court. This is a rule of law that goes back to the Magna Carta in 1215. That pretty much leaves the barn door open.

Fellow citizens, this bill throws out legal and moral restraints as the president deems it necessary -- these are fundamental principles of basic decency, as well as law.

I'd like those supporting this evil bill to spare me one affliction: Do not, please, pretend to be shocked by the consequences of this legislation. And do not pretend to be shocked when the world begins comparing us to the Nazis.

http://www.creators.com/opinion_show.cfm?columnsName=miv

[DearAbby]

1. *

[Bluebear]

9. .

[Solly Mack]

2. I recommended earlier without replying

No reply is really needed though is it? Molly Ivins says it all. But I fear this dropping..so a reply to boost it

If you're shocked by the comparison, you are (pick one)

1 - in denial and wrapped in the flag
2 - in denial with your head up your ass
3 - in denial with your head up your ass and wrapped in the flag

[BelgianMadCow]

3. me too

btw do you ever sleep Solly Mack? You were here when I went to bed and still are when I get up.
:-)

[Solly Mack]

4. I sleep at odd hours. I was actually off line for a few hours

probably while you were asleep. I just signed back on a little bit ago....drinking coffee before my errands begin for the day.

It's a beautiful morning here.

[BelgianMadCow]

5. Coffee and morning sunshine on my screen

as well. Didn't mean to be stalking you :-)

When I was in stress during univ study, I always looked at the clouds drifting by, trees swaying in the wind, and thought "no matter how hard I fuck things up, these things will still be the same afterward".

Nature brings consolation in such circumstances, I find.

[Solly Mack]

7. It does for me as well (nature)

:)

[nam78_two]

33. sorry to be a downer

but we seem to be doing our best to eff up nature as well :-/

[GetTheRightVote]

6. I read the article earlier but it still is scary to think where nations

is heading these days, will we one day live in Nazi germany? Is Bush really our very own Hitler, if so, how has this happen in this nation of freedoms.

He speaks of the stolen elections, etc.

:kick:

[DearAbby]

8. What can I say...the unspeakable has happened

something I had thought would NEVER happen here...it is here, it has happened. WHAT CAN I SAY? Molly says it all. :cry:

[countryjake]

10. Decency died up on the Hill today.

[texpatriot2004]

11. This is how Nazi Germany began nm

[mogster]

12. K&R n/t

[Bluebear]

35. .

[malaise]

13. Thanks Molly

The real point is that 'appeasers' and they have called Dems appeasers already, can now be locked up and thrown away.

[madrchsod]

14. the charter of liberties was the foundation of the magna charta

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Liberties
Charter of Liberties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[warrens]

15. I'll be working for Tammy every weekend for the rest of the campaign

And I will take great pleasure in watching that scumbag Roskam go down to defeat. Walking through that district the past couple of weeks, I'm not seeing too many hardcore Repukes anymore. They're all unhappy with the war, and unhappy with Hyde, and unhappy with Bush. Roskam has way more money, but it won't save him. Tammy is getting a ton of free publicity because of who she is. It doesn't hurt that she's pretty hot, too.

And yes, she has a few conservative views, so all of you purists can start calling her Republican Lite and screeching that you won't vote for her because she doesn't get 100 percent on your purity test.

[Straight Shooter]

16. A friend of mine contends that Americans will adapt to totalitarianism.

Please note he is not referring to those who love life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, nor is he referring to those who regard the Constitution as a sacred document, so to speak.

No, he means those who wishy-washy around in life, content with their remotes, the latest new gimmicky thing to purchase, the people whose lives revolve around Survivor and American Idol and the latest missing blonde, those who watch Pox News faithfully and believe that Rush "how low can you go" Limbo would never ever lie, and that Little Boots is a straight talker and a good Christian man.

Those people will adapt to totalitarianism quite nicely, as it removes all sense of responsibility from their lives. Sometimes it's just easier to roll over and play dead.

The rest of us will have to deal with the consequences of their apathy, as the Republicans continue to push for a thousand points of darkness.

Yes, Molly Ivins is quite right, we will be compared to the Nazis. We will also be compared to every other totalitarian regime which we once thought we were better than.

And remember:

W is for waterboarding

[Auggie]

23. They aleady have, haven't they?

I mean, those who don't bother to vote -- who think it's a waste of time or won't make a difference.

[Straight Shooter]

30. Good point.

:thumbsup:

[Danger Mouse]

32. You are so right.

And it is so sad. We are headed for 1984 at an alarming rate, where those that are too numb or stupid to shift or move themsleves simply go through life in a daze of misdirected hate, mediocrity, and quiet servitude, while those that think or feel or try to express independent thoughts simply disappear. And it's so sad how so many people just don't care.
But what's worse is how many people actually support torture, or wouldn't mind seeing people like us exposed to torture either.
What a sick world...

[Jack Rabbit]

17. Bush will never be Hitler

However, more parallels are valid now than were last week. And last week there were still too many for comfort.

[vssmith]

18. But Cheney might be!

[Jack Rabbit]

20. No, definitely not Cheney.

What I have to say about Bush here can also be said of Cheney.

One more time with feeling: Bush and the neoconservatives occupy the same niche on the world stage today that Hitler and the Nazis occupied about 65 years ago, so comparisons are inevitable. Nevertheless, they are two distinct species of war criminals.

Hitler was first and foremost a mass murderer; Bush is principally a thief. Both plunged their nations into unnecessary wars for the purpose of conquest; both believe in a natural hierarchy of human society, which is a way of saying that neither believes in democracy.

However, Hitler's social hierarchy was based on racism. His conquests were driven by an irrational hatred of the people who lived in those lands. The object of conquest to him was to clear the land of inferior races so that his tall, blond, blue-eyed Nordic ideal race could prosper.

Bush, contrary to what many claim here, is not a racist. If he were, he would not have named two Afro-Americans to be his Secretaries of State. He is a plutocrat. Bush believes that wealthy people have demonstrated their superiority by the very fact that they are wealthy. This might be a defense mechanism in his case, since he clearly is not a superior person in any way; he was born wealthy and has achieved little or nothing on his own merits in the course of his life. These are the people who manage wealth best and the world is a better place for all if wealth is placed in their hands. Were I come from, one who takes something from somebody else by force or cunning is a thief, regardless of whether he keeps it himself or gives it to a third party.

Hitler stole from his victims, but that was incidental to murdering them. He certainly had no desire to collect the personal belongings and gold teeth of Jews -- he just wanted them dead. To my knowledge, Hitler did not personally profit from the looting of his victims. Likewise Bush murders his victims, but that is incidental to stealing from them. Iraq was not invaded because Saddam had weapons of mass destruction -- we now know for a fact he didn't -- nor because Saddam had ties to terrorists -- all apparent assertions that he did were made in carefully crafted statements to imply a connection without actually saying it; Iraq was invaded to place its natural wealth and national assets in the hands of transnational corporations. Of course, Iraqis were killed in the invasion itself, many more have been killed since, both directly by Americans and other forces of the so-called coalition and by Iraqi insurgents in what should properly be called a civil war, which has gotten to the stage it has as a result of the incompetence of US administrators in Iraq. And, of course, nearly 3000 US troops have been killed in a war that is completely unrelated to national security.

For this reason, Bush will never be as wantonly destructive as Hitler. Hitler murdered about 11 million people, and those were the noncombat deaths. I may have to eat my words by this time next month, but I will be very surprised if Bush ever approaches that figure. A thief may murder his victim in order to take the loot, but it does the thief no good to destroy the loot itself.

[countryjake]

24. Try examining the definition of Imperialism...

You said:

Bush believes that wealthy people have demonstrated their superiority by the very fact that they are wealthy. This might be a defense mechanism in his case, since he clearly is not a superior person in any way; he was born wealthy and has achieved little or nothing on his own merits in the course of his life. These are the people who manage wealth best and the world is a better place for all if wealth is placed in their hands. Were I come from, one who takes something from somebody else by force or cunning is a thief, regardless of whether he keeps it himself or gives it to a third party.

Achieving dominance over sovereign nations is tricky sport these days and capitalists use any and all weapons they have at their disposal, which most certainly does include racism. To say our prez is not racist just because a couple appointees might be minorities fails to acknowledge his blatant disregard for what transpired down in New Orleans, nor does it recognize the increased oppression which has arisen due to the passing of the Patriot Act, with police and courts given free hand in criminalization of those who've been disenfranchised...the poor and the minorities of our population. Look at the record of executions in Texas, before 2000, and then try and say he is not a murdering racist. Yeah, I would stick "thief" in there, too, but that is not all that he is.

[Jack Rabbit]

27. Response

To say our prez is not racist just because a couple appointees might be minorities fails to acknowledge his blatant disregard for what transpired down in New Orleans, nor does it recognize the increased oppression which has arisen due to the passing of the Patriot Act, with police and courts given free hand in criminalization of those who've been disenfranchised...the poor and the minorities of our population. Look at the record of executions in Texas, before 2000, and then try and say he is not a murdering racist. Yeah, I would stick "thief" in there, too, but that is not all that he is.

His blatant disregard for what happened in New Orleans

The most criminal thing about the Bush response in New Orleans is how it is an attempt to make the city more Republican. This is done by discouraging the return of poor Blacks, who vote Democratic when they vote.

increased oppression which has arisen due to the passing of the Patriot Act, with police and courts given free hand in criminalization of those who've been disenfranchised...the poor and the minorities of our population.

Our fears concerning the Patriot are that is potentially criminalize dissent. That has nothing to do with being Black. Again, it is aimed at people who don't vote Republican.

Look at the record of executions in Texas, before 2000, and then try and say he is not a murdering racist.

In his mind, he is not. He has a misguided belief in capital punishment that is akin to his misguided believe in torture: he thinks one works to reduce crime and the other works to get valuable information out of a subject under interrogation. He would not dispute that the execution of a capital sentence is the taking of a human life, but he would distinguish it from murder. The fact that most of those under capital sentence in Texas during his tenure as governor were poor and Black hardly makes Texas unique among the 50 states. The fact is that most violent crime in the US is committed by young Black male adults, living in urban areas in a condition of poverty, not well educated, not well employed and with few prospects. As Dr. Moynihan once observed, remove the word Black and what is left is the profile of the person who commits most violent crime in any industrial society. The problem, then, is that so many Blacks find themselves in that position. That has to do historically with racism; to detail those reasons go well beyond the scope of this post. It should suffice to say that Mr. Bush is not personally responsible for them.

Overall, I will defend my thesis that Bush is not a racist, but a plutocrat. He bears no personally animosity toward any one because that person is Black, but at the same time believes that if one is in poverty then it is because of some character flaw that prevented him from becoming the CEO at GM.

[PassingFair]

22. Of course not.

KKKarl Rove will never be stupid enough
to let him grow that little moustache.

[Blue_In_AK]

19. As always, Molly has it right...

I'm still in shock that this has happened to us.

[mdmc]

37. me too...

is it 1984 yet?

[indepat]

21. We can take comfort that the world won't compare anyone to Nazis unless

descriptive.

[mdmc]

25. maybe we can repeal the torture bill next year.

[Kurovski]

26. K&R.

:kick:

[Kurovski]

28. I just found this stashed away...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. At least Adolph didn't pretend to be fighting for "democracy".

But his followers did pretend that they "didn't know" what was going on...much like much of the citizenry of this country is doing now.

[intheflow]

31. Fighting cancer and fighting for democracy.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/9/25/03948/9206

Molly Ivins is a heroine for the ages. :patriot:

[XOKCowboy]

34. Bless ya Molly.

Even battling cancer she came up with the most lucid and detailed discussion of the Nazi Bill (may I coin that phrase?)that I've read so far.

Keep up the good fights Molly.

[burrowowl]

36. One of her best pieces ever!

I'v printed it out and I am going to show it to everone I know.