Haven't the goddamn senate Democrats ever heard the word "filibuster?"

[Cyrano]

So now it's "legal" for King George to give the go ahead on torture and declare anyone he wants to be an "enemy combatant."

The Democrats in the senate made moving speeches, pounded the podium and told us how horrible it would all be. But they didn't use the biggest and only weapon they have. The filibuster. Goddamn them to hell.

What are they afraid of? What do they have to lose? Do they really think the majority of Americans approve of torture? Do they really believe the majority of Americans want a king who can decide who's an "enemy combatant" and who isn't?

We expect the Republicans to be the pricks they are. But we expect more of Dems. Nonetheless, we're now stuck with wonderful things like Justice Alito, torture, "enemy combatants," and just about anything else King George wants to do to anyone he wants to do it to. And all because the Dems refuse to filibuster. Gosh, I guess we're all really going to feel proud casting our votes for such brave, stand-up heroes.

[acmavm]

1. Spineless quisling collaborating ass-kissers.

AND DON'T ANYONE LECTURE ME ON NOT STANDING UP FOR DEMS.

Right is right, wrong is wrong. And torture is obscene. And so is spying on the American people. And the wholeslaughter murder of innocent civilians.

They've been selling us out since they lost there nerve way back when this administration came into power. No, I take that back. Since the Clinton hearings.

\

[seabeyond]

7. Right is right, wrong is wrong... majority voted NO... so they were right

the majority dem voted no. so they were right. and those that voted for the bill were wrong. simple.

[Mass]

2. Dont say: "the democrats". Just as for Alito, some democrats did not

want to filibuster, some wanted. At the end, they understood they did not have the votes for a filibuster, as reflected by the rollcall on the bill and decided not to filibuster the bill. Sure, somebody could have said they wanted the cloture votes to be counted, but at the end, the results would be the same.

[Cyrano]

6. Sometimes, you've got to stand up for what's right, even if you know

you're going to lose. Plus, how many arms did Harry Reid twist? Did he even try? We have no way of knowing.

But we do know that 10 Dems voted for torture. I think that a 2/3 vote is needed to break a filibuster. So why did those 10 (or 9 if we leave Lieberman out) decide to give King George what he wanted?

Did their constituents really want these things passed? I find that hard to believe. Do they live in terror of what Karl Rove might do to them? Then none of them have any business being a Democratic senator.

Any way you look at it, we're part of a party that seems to have lost its way -- and perhaps even its soul.

[blm]

12. Frist wasn't allowing Dem amendments to bill, so, to GET Dem

amendments submitted and debated pubklically on the floor of the senate, Reid traded the right of the minority party to filibuster.

Dems can at least now say that they submitted FOR THE RECORD constitutionally crafted legislation to deal with all the areas necessary to the bill,

Poor comfort, but they knew the courts would get Habeus Corpus anyway where it will be struck down. So do the GOPs. They only REALLY wanted the provision that gives BushInc IMMUNITY for the crimes he already committed.

[acmejack]

3. They are cowardly punks who care nothing about appearances.

WEe can't win so we won't even try. Principle means nothing. In fact I think the majority of them, rich as they are, secretly don't mind seeing the rabble repressed. You can be certain that is what this has done too, placed the great mass of the populace squarely under the dictatorial thumb, sooner or later this act shall be employed against the bulk of the American populace to put us in our places.

Wait until the economy goes sour and watch the Government react. Watch when they need your children to feed their war machine which is certain to be sooner rather than later.

[Dhalgren]

4. I heard on NPR that the vote was 66 to 34 FOR the torture bill.

That means that a group of Democrats were in FAVOR of torture. The Democrats against torture did not have the numbers to filibuster, even if they had wanted to. We have to, at some point, take a long, hard look at the Democratic Party...

[seabeyond]

9. but fuck facts..... when we can condemn our dems to hell. much

more fun

[Egnever]

36. These are the results that should be expected

When we decide that anything is better than a republican in office.

We can not continue to vote for the lesser of two evils in this country and expect the lesser to actually stand up and do whats right when the time comes.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cyrano]

10. Sorry if you're offended. I'm offended by torture, "enemy combatants"

the Republican party and the Dems who were too cowardly to stand up for what we're supposed to be about.

[seabeyond]

13. you are so much more sensitive, like what, i am not offended by torture

if we dont throw pissy fits and accusations ignoring fact, if we dont condemn people to hell we dont care about torture. screw that shit. i listen to repugs say the most offensive things, like when i rail on torture they will say, ... so you want murdering terrorists to roam free. why must it be my way or you are out there in extreme. i will challenge you on my opposition and disgust on torture, my man/woman. just more bullshit hyperbole

[Cyrano]

18. You know, it's possible to disagree without being offensive. So you

go ahead and continue your personal attacks. As for me, I've got chores to do.

[seabeyond]

27. ahh, so you condemn people to hell, accuse others of not being

serious on torture, and then you run away and accuse the other of committing personal attacks. chores are good. enjoy

[Cyrano]

37. Chores done and I've just seen your latest post. Somehow, I knew

you'd have to get in the last word.

I noticed that your really despicable post got deleted by the moderators. I have no intention of responding to you again. But for the record, let me say as politely as possible that I find your attacks to be rude, crude and socially unacceptable.

So fire away and have a nice life. Over and out.

[seabeyond]

39. you condemn people to hell, i repeat it and my post is rude, crude

and socially unacceptable? am i back in the 70's in highschool

you say something to me, i respond and then accused of having to get in the last word? as you throw the last word in?

you are taking me back to my childhood.

you are the one that condemned people to hell

you are the one that accused me of not caring about torture.

then you dont own your own words and jump my ass for repeating your very words.....

ya... that flies

now you can gripe some more i had to say the last words, again

or it can just be i had something to say to you, after you had something to say to me.

[magellan]

8. Totally agree

Or they could have all voted No, or they could have all refused to vote.

Whether or not it would have changed anything isn't the point. Standing up for principles is what it comes down to...making a statement Americans need to hear.

11 Dem Senators, including my own, chose tyranny instead.

[Hav]

16. 12 Ds actually

Chafee and Jeffords were among the 34.
As was pointed out, they didn't have the votes for a filibuster, not even close. Sad, isn't it? I'm sure they would have done it if they had been united against it.
Still, we have to change that the Repubs have the majority in the Congress and the Senate. I can understand that so many are pissed right now, but we don't really have another choice.

[magellan]

23. Isn't it 11? Lieberman is no longer a D officially

I don't know, 11, 12, it's just incredible that they couldn't get more cohesion on the subject of TORTURE than that. And this is after some of them went out of their way to vote for the amendment to preserve habeas corpus.

WHY would somebody vote yes to keep habeas corpus, watch that amendment go down in flames, then vote yes for the bill that suspends habeas corpus?? Are they just basically STUPID or what?

[Hav]

35. Ok, 11 in that case.

And I asked the same question yesterday. Everyone of them except Nelson voted for the Amendments. Why voting for something when you know that there is something wrong about it, something that is so un-american? That tells you that these people are politicians first. Stupid would be too generous as it somehow implies that they had probably no idea what they were doing.

[Nimrod2005]

11. See my post on this...a couple of minutes ago...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2254635&mesg_id=2254635

[mmonk]

14. Not in an election year

[William Bloode]

15. Yes you can blame Dem's.

They gave away the chance at any filibuster. They gave it up for a chance on amendments that had absolutely no chance of passage.

Yes they made a deal for unanimous consent. Sorry fuckers have so spine and are guilty of not putting forth the best defense they had. Hell they gave their best defense away.

[Hav]

17. .

I think they gave it away because they knew that they had no chance for a filibuster. 32 Dems + Jeffords + the only sane Republican aren't enough.

[mmonk]

31. And why didn't they have the numbers?

[mmonk]

20. They calculated they could exploit the appearance

of a fissure in the republican party. They calculated wrong.

[Marie26]

19. Only 34 votes against the bill

They didn't have enough for a fillibuster, so I'll forgive Reid for that.

[jsamuel]

28. true, this was not Reid's fault

[Stinkfoot]

21. They didn't do the Groundwork

In order to win this vote, or at least vote down a cloture motion, they needed to prepare the ground, mobilize their base, confront the disinformation from the GOP, rally the defenders of liberty to the banner. Instead they hid behind the skirts of McCain, Graham and Warner, content to allow them to define the debate and decide what kind of "compromise" was acceptable. They lost the initiative on this issue a long time ago, infuriating their base and appearing ineffectual and irrelevant to the swing voters. Oh, they thought they were being so crafty, when they were just reinforcing their image as craven cowards.

[William Bloode]

22. And the truth shall set you free!

You hit the nail on the head. And welcome to D.U.

[Dhalgren]

24. Welcome to DU.

You are dead on in your assessment. It was a craven miscalculation. And we may all pay the price for it...

[Penndems]

29. YES - you hit the nail on the head, stinkfoot

Very astute observation and assessment. Welcome to DU! :hi:

[MrCoffee]

38. Dead solid perfect. Welcome to DU.

[Strawman]

25. The Senate Dem Caucus has just moved past the Atacama Desert in Chile

As the driest place on earth. Fillied with the driest powder ever observed by humankind.

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0308/feature3/

[Freddie Stubbs]

26. Yes. Remember when they blocked the Homeland Security bill in 2002?

And then the Republicans campaigned that Democrats were soft on terror? And then Democrats lost seats in both the House and Senate?

I remember. Apparently Senate Democrats did too.

[kath]

30. They needed to keep their powder dry.

Whatsa matta you - don'cha know that dry powder is the most important thing of all???

:-( :-( :-(

[kentuck]

32. The Repubs will show them the meaning...

if they are ever in the minority. Bet on it!

[ComerPerro]

33. Have you ever heard the phrase "obstructionist Democrat"?

The Republicans are pushing these votes right before the election for a reason, you know.

[WA98296]

34. They are Fearful, They are Shameful. They are not worthy to serve.

I honestly think they should all resign.