So the Torture Bill - I'm assuming this is going to the courts

[LynneSin]

I've gotta think someone out there realizes all the violations in it and will take it up to the Supreme Court where we still have a leaning towards the left (Breyer, Ginsberg, Souter, Stevens and Kennedy the Wild Card).

[MrCoffee]

1. I have no confidence that a court will hear the claim.

Congress has authority over the appellate jurisdiction of the Supreme Court, and all jurisdiction of the inferior federal courts. Congress could get rid of all the District and Circuit courts if it so chose.

The MCA strips federal courts of jurisdiction to hear claims under it. Section 950j(b) of the Act, to be precise.

I can't for the life of me come up with a potential plaintiff with standing to sue in order to challenge the constitutionality of the MCA.

[LynneSin]

4. The Plantiff part is easy

There are dozens of liberal groups that have an interest in it including the ACLU and Amnesty International.

You're right about the lower courts, but if we could get this thing to the Supreme Court we would have a chance

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. Those groups, valuable as they are, cannot be plaintiffs unless

they themselves are charged with something. There has to be a specific case, not a theory, that is brought before the court, and this crap is written to prevent anyone so charged from being able to come before the court - no habeas corpus, no judicial review, no right to appeal.

[MrCoffee]

12. The plaintiff part is almost impossible now.

1) You have to show that you are entitled to bring suit in federal court. Congress controls the jurisdiction of the federal courts. They just removed detainees from that jurisdiction.

2) The ACLU/Amnesty International can't show standing. They have no actual or imminent harm, and associational suits don't cut it without actual or imminent harm.

[lumberjack_jeff]

14. Karpinsky?

She was busted for actions that were retroactively made legal. Can/would she appeal/sue?

[wryter2000]

2. One quibble

I wouldn't call those guys as leaning toward the left. I might describe them as respecting the Constitution, but we'll wait and see how they rule on this. I'm sure it will go to the courts.

[LynneSin]

3. Well four of them I could see them supporting the Constitution

But Kennedy is that damn wild card and would probably be the deciding factor if this makes SCOTUS

[savemefromdumbya]

5. who will take it to the courts?

[LynneSin]

6. My guess is either the ACLU or Amnesty International

I'm sure I could think of others

[radfringe]

7. might not just have to "depnd" on the left leaners for this

the repugs are and have been busy working on various amendments/clauses to stuff in other bills which limits what the courts can and can't do when it comes to "detainees" (which is a sugar-coated word for tortureree)

O'conner is running around the country speaking out about the restrictions and interference by the rubber-stampering GOPers... and according to one news report it was mentioned that thomas, alito, roberts are also not too happy about this

[phantom power]

8. One question: will there be any legal case to take?

Consider: the whole point of this atrocity of a bill is that we can all now be imprisoned without a lawyer, a trial, confronting evidence, etc. So, when people start disappearing, what legal case will there be to take to a court and challenge?

[Golden Raisin]

9. Don't count on the SCOTUS.

The former court (MINUS solid right-wingers Alito & Roberts who are now installed) was the court that incoronated Bush after the debacle in Florida. You can't count on justices assumed to be "liberal".

[LynneSin]

13. You got a point there but.....

Kennedy has always been a wild card and although he fucked up with the 2000 election, there was many times he came in with the 4 on the left. If a RoeVWade hearing would come to SCOTUS he's actually on our side.

But having said that - I have no fucking clue how he would vote. But at least we could try

[Parche]

11. courts

We need a DU, Dem.com class action suit against these bills..........