Question: What Issue is A Red-letter Issue for You?

[Leopolds Ghost]

What issue prevents you from voting for any Republican?

It obviously isn't torture for some folks.

I'd be willing to bet many of the same people defending Sherrod Brown
would boycott the polls on Election Day, if Brown came out against Roe.

Such voters are "lifestyle Dems".

As long as their lifestyle is comfortable and they are personally free of scrutiny from the detention-and-spying program that guys like Brown are tacitly willing to inherit and not dismantle, they wash their hands of actions committed against generic foreign people in their name.

They are relying on white and/or class privilege to protect them, not the laws of tany government. And when you get right down to it -- when you ask them why they are't afraid of the Kelo decision, or the NSA, or this -- they know it.

Keep in mind that guys like Sherrod Brown will oppose any attempt to undo this legislation.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

If the Courts undo it, guys like Brown will make a name for themselves crafting NEW torture legislation that "passes constitutional muster" in order to, as MSNBC put it, "take the issue away from the Republicans".

Like they did in the 1990's.

Moreover, we know that dems like Landrieux, Pryor, Nelson etc. will be the death of any impeachment hearing.

I don't have any solution. I'd just like to know... if Torture isn't the red-letter issue that prevents you from voting for a guy like Mike DeWine, what is??

Please don't say "the 'D' after his name". Torture is being conducted in OUR name, it doesn't matter what the party label of the people that supported it was. They are the Torture Party. The Dems who voted against Torture are the Democratic Party.

[Leopolds Ghost]

1. Some background: Sherrod Brown says Dems are "wrong" on torture,

"we did extensive polling and people just don't care about detainee issues",

and "these are terrorists we are talking about".

[orwell]

2. Frankly...

...I believe very little that a candidate says or does this close to an election. Just about everything they do is based on internal polling and the recommendations of highly paid consultants.

Whatever is done can be undone. Remember, we used to have legal slavery in this country.

Voting for Brown over DeWine is a no brainer...

[Leopolds Ghost]

4. We will have to wait until Sherrod Brown and others retire

from the Senate before this legislation can be repealed.

Think about that, as I tried to explain in the OP.

[orwell]

11. That can only be inferred...

...not asserted.

Look at Rep. Walter Jones(R- NC), once "Mr. Freedom Fries", now a leading voice against the Iraq War.

Things will change when the Dems are in power, if only to disembowel their opponents.

[Leopolds Ghost]

15. Are we now in favor of disemboweling Republicans :-)

What has become of America? :evilgrin:

Brown on Ed Schultz RIGHT NOW!

[orwell]

22. And...

...what about the children?

Thanks for the heads up.

Cheers...

[Greyhound]

16. "we used to have legal slavery in this country"

and it, among other things, eventually led us into the Civil War.

[orwell]

23. My point was that all things will pass...

...I don't think civil war is any longer an option.

The "gubmint" has far too much firepower and the dickwads in charge have signaled that they would have no qualms about shooting us like dogs in the street...all in the name of "protecting our freedoms."

[Leopolds Ghost]

3. one little kick...

This issue disturbs me greatly. At first I simply chided Brown for sullying his soul, and ours, with this vote, simply in order to improve his chances in what is already favored to be a Dem year, until I found out how strongly he felt about this.

[acmejack]

5. I was stunned by Browns vote.

I have to say, I would vote for him anyway if I was in Ohio simply because I know Dewine is a slug. I totally disagree with him & I believe the day will come when he must personally must answer for this, he has added his imprimatur to torture as an official policy of this Nation and he has rejected Habeas Corpus by virtue of this vote.

I would still have to say that half a loaf is better than none. Our choices become ever more limited, I had actually thought Sherrod one of the good guys. So much for good guys. This is what I get for thinking we could work in the system, but if we don't, they will shoot us all down like dogs. So we must work within the system...

[Leopolds Ghost]

6. Good answer.

For some reason I was reminded of "Sin City" when I read your post.

"So much for good guys," I thought as I blew him out the window with my shotgun. The gaping chest wounds in my back were beginning to get to me. So I downed another bottle of amphetamines and returned to the polling station.

[valerief]

7. Republicans won't help poor people. Democrats will. So, if you

find yourself in dire straits through no fault of your own, a Democratic government is more likely to see that you don't die in the curb. They're more likely to give you the bare essentials to survive. Republicans will spit on you, kick you, burn you, and then laugh in delight.

[Greyhound]

17. Sure they will, that's why we have millions of people existing on

the streets of every city and town in our country (except for the places where poverty has been criminalized). :think:

[kitkat65]

8. Self delete

Hit the wrong damn button
:eyes:

[kitkat65]

10. Self delete

In order not to break the rules. Sorry, mods.

[Leopolds Ghost]

12. self delete... returning the favor

I guess we'll just agree to disagree about the importance of this. I've been very critical of Hillary Clinton and from what I hear she was "on fire" about the importance of this issue.

[calico1]

9. I believe it makes more sense to challenge

Democrats when they are in power and in control, rather than to either directly or indirectly help Republicans stay in power which keeps the Democrats in the weaker position.

[cally]

13. Pretty simple for me...the continuation of our civilization

and possibly, our species. We have to address the impending global warming crisis. The Democrats are supportive of environmental regulation and the Republicans are not. We will not pass ANY, no matter how small, policies that thwart the energy companies and reduces carbon emissions while the Republicans are in power. It just won't happen. Instead all depends upon getting a democratic Congress. We just can't wait.

Yeah, I'll give up much to save our planet. I'm not exaggerating on the threat. We don't have much time to stop the impending crisis. I think of all the suffering when major cities all over the globe flood, those who survive have to retreat, and yes, I'm even willing to accept a vote for torture if that means we have a chance to win in November. I just don't see a better alternative in the time frame we have.

I see all of those refusing to vote for Democrats over this as very, very ill-informed. Be angry. Protest. Vote the idiots out in primaries but we have to win the fight against global warming.

[Leopolds Ghost]

14. Fair enough.

This is actually the sort of discussion I was hoping to generate.

Like I said, I don't have any answers. But things keep moving to the right on issues like these, as folks come out in favor of a bill here and a bill there, at some point opposing the torture of "terrorists" will become a third-rail politicians cannot cross, like opposing the "drug war".

[mhatrw]

18. Fuck the torture issue! Seriously.

They repealed the habeas corpus rights of US citizens! What could possibly be more "red letter" than that?

[Leopolds Ghost]

19. When?? I saw a thread on this and lost it

I realize they're already repealed habeas for foreign detainees but I thought SCOTUS struck that down. If the new law violates SCOTUS just ruling, won't they strike it down even faster?

Obviously if they're being tortured, they don't have much in the way of habeas rights by definition.

[mhatrw]

21. The same law eliminates habeas corpus for all

"enemy combatants" which are defined in practice as whomever the executive wants to designate as such.

[LSK]

20. there is no "single" issue, it is all of them

Its what makes me who I am versus what makes someone a Republican.

I am not selfish, I dont lie, I care about my fellow man, I want a good environment, I believe in fair wages, I want a better world out there, I value truth and honor.